BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?

Subject: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:26 PM

This joke made me laugh but it also reminds me that I wonder just what it is that Americans, et al, have against Hillary Clinton. My opinion is that she is NOT electable in the foreseen future but that she might be a powerful president if she ever is. She is bright, assertive, not to say aggressive, she has had her share of adversity but also her share of sweetness in her life, she is pragmatic but has ideals, she and Bill have raised an excellent child, she knows how to persevere...

The joke goes:

"Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and Al Gore were in an airplane that
crashed.

"They're up in Heaven, and God's sitting on the great white throne.
God addresses Al first. "Al, what do you believe in?"

"Al replies, "Well, I believe I won that election, but that it was
your will that I did not serve. And I've come to understand that now."
"God thinks for a second and says, "Okay, very good. Come and sit at
my left."

"God then addresses Bill. "Bill, what do you believe in?"
Bill replies, "I believe in forgiveness. I've sinned, but I've never
held a grudge against my fellow man, and I hope no grudges are held
against me."

"God thinks for a second and says, "You are forgiven, my son. Come
and sit at my right."

"God then addresses Hillary. "Hillary, what do you believe in?"
"I believe you're in my chair."

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Scoville
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:32 PM

I don't really have anything against her except that she has said she won't vote for gay marriage, but that may be as much political as personal. I'm disgusted with people who don't like her because she's not a traditional wifey First Lady like Laura Bush--blech. I don't "identify" with her--I'm not the ambitious career-woman type--but I'm glad some women are and I don't think they should be bad-mouthed for it.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:38 PM

Nothing. She will never be President, but who cares. Neither will anyone here.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:40 PM

Well, I'm confused at the notion that she needs to have no faults in order to be considered.

She seems like an intelligent woman who knows the issues, and I think she could probably handle the job.

That joke is a VERY hard exaggeration of what 'some' people think about her attitude. It's getting so that any candidate who has character immediately has that character inflated, distorted and ridiculed; leaving us with bland folks who hide most of their opinions until they get elected.

   I would ask: If you DON'T like Hilary, which male candidate has better ideas and a better attitude? If you know one, vote for him, but stop ridiculing a woman who OBVIOUSLY has a great deal of competance.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Cruiser
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:43 PM

Had Hillary denounced and divorced Mr. Clinton she might have been given the respect she deserves and I would have most likely voted for her. Now, I cannot watch news reports of her and Bill standing side-by-side smiling and waving to admiring throngs of people.   

I am astounded that people respect Clinton after what he did to disgrace the office of the presidency and sending the massage out to young girls worldwide that oral sex is not sex.

There are limits to what is acceptable behavior and Clinton should be a social pariah; he instead is lauded and lavished with high speaking fees.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:47 PM

Don't know much about Hillary one way or the other. Can't see that she is responsible for any accomplishment at all. Hillary has great name recognition, but other than that she is simply the junior senator from New York without much of a legislative track record.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:51 PM

Cruiser, to me it appears that your view is a flat, black and white one. With that view I can see why you might feel that way, but from my view life is chock full of subtleties and nuances and conflicted issues.

It is entirely possible to love someone- and to cheat on him, or her. It is entirely possible to love someone- and to recognize the value in your life of him or her and to have that overbalance the heartwrenching things that person is capable of doing.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:52 PM

Nothing but this: she has not replied to any of my love letters, and she stood me up for our date at the Thai restaurant last month.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: frogprince
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:55 PM

I really never have been able to grasp why right wing people foam at the mouth the way they do when discussing Hillary. I've heard radio commentators rant not just at her but at anyone who so much as dared make a polite civil public reference to her.

Not too long ago I saw a rerun of the long-ago tv special with Jackie Kennedy showing an interviewer around the White House. I realized then that, over all the years, I had somehow missed hearing Jackie say more than a stray word. I was almost dumbfounded to hear how much she sounded like a cross between a Stepford wife and a Marilyn Monroe imitation. But public response to her seemed to range from warm acceptance to utter worship.

Does the comparison tell us what America wants in its' First Ladies?

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:55 PM

Oh, Cruiser! For Pete's sake! He gave in to temptation in a very similar way to what millions do every day! DIVORCE? Over a young twit with delusions of grandeur? Moral 'standards' are fine, but arbitrary moral standards imposed from outside and overriding all other considerations of competence and reason just make no sense in this world. That level of sexual behavior, measured against Bill Clinton's other abilities and their 30+ years of marriage should not be relevant. (And whatever YOU think, they talked about it and decided not to break up their marriage based on Monica's debatable charms.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:01 PM

Had Hillary denounced and divorced Mr. Clinton she might have been given the respect she deserves and I would have most likely voted for her.

Mightn't it be a nice change for you to have a President who believes in keeping a solemn promise? In this case "Till death us do part".

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Amos
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:08 PM

The joke, by the way, has been told for decades about various Personages with attitudes.

I think the Right is scared of her because she wanted a better health care system and that means more overhead and a ding in profit profiles.

I know very little about her, personally, except that she is certainly a political animal, which is a warning sign. And she obviosully has excellent taste in social engagements, as evidenced by Little Hawk's previous post....




A

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Scoville
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:17 PM

The Hillary joke I knew was:

Q) Have you heard of the KFC Hillary bucket of chicken?

A) It includes two large thighs, two small breasts, and a left wing.

Very popular for awhile in Texas. Lovely.




Oh, please--as if Clinton was the first President ever to cheat on his wife (doesn't seem to have hurt Kennedy's memory much). It was nobody's business but their own and it was a no-win situation. If she had divorced him, they would have bad-mouthed them both anyway (family values, Biblical decrees, and all that). I don't respect what he did but he's hardly alone and it wasn't illegal, and it shouldn't have overshadowed all the things he did or tried to do that actually made a social or political difference. It was sheer voyeurism.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: GUEST,jaze
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:58 PM

Cruiser, let me guess, you're a Christian, right? What about forgiveness? Isn't that an admirable virtue? You would punish her for what he did? That woman endured with grace and dignity what had to be one of the most publicly humiliating experiences in politics. Like her or hate her, she has my respect for the dignity she displayed.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:25 PM

As I understand it, he answered the question about having sex with Monica using the tribunals own definition which did not include oral sex. Sure he acted like a lawyer, sure he knew what they wanted. They just didn't ask if he actually laid her.

Hillary will never be elected president.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:27 PM

Humph. NO sympathy here for my Hillary heartbreak, is there? Well, phooey on you people. I hope you all find weevils in your breakfast food, specially Amos. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Amos
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:31 PM

As Johhnny Carson in his turban used to say, May the sewers of Rangoon back up into your breakfast cereal, Little Hawk!!!


LOL!


A

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:32 PM

I don't dislike and mistrust because she's a 'strong woman' (whatever that means in relation to someone who is essentially a nepotist).
I dislike and mistrust her because of the Whitewater corruption, the White House travel scandal, her failure to accomplish a health plan, her covering for Bill's dishonesty, the theft of stuff from the White House, and her running for office in a state she didn't come from. All wrapped in a selfrighteousness that implies anyone who doesn't vote for her is a sexist.
It doesn't make me a sexist because I like my politicians more honest and more productive.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:36 PM

Clinton's non-sex was none of my business. The same goes for all the other presidents including some recent Republicans.
My objection to Hillary is her "hurt wife" routine when the scandal went public. She knew about his indiscretions and chose to do nothing about it IMO because she was more concerned about her own political asperations than her marriage. The wounded wife nonsense made her a first-class liar who thinks the public is made up of first class fools. Or she is the most idiotic woman on the face of the earth.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:43 PM

Here's what I have against Hillary

1)She went into congress during the first Clinton term with a universal health plan that made a hell of a lot more sense than what we have now, but tried to ram it through without rallying any support for it, by attaching it to a budget appropriations bill. She and the bill went down in flames, setting ANY health care reform back twenty years.

2)Having learned the value of compromise and keeping a low profile from this awesome defeat, she has become the ultimate Senate compromiser aand concilliator, refusing to take a high profile stance on ANY controversial bill or stance. She has become one of the most popular Senators across party lines due to these skills and this strategy.

That's what I don't like about her. What I do like about her is the fact that I think she still holds the belief that real and necessary reform is possible, despite the fact she rarely talks about it. And somehow I think the new compromizing Hillary may have the political will and skill to get these reforms accomplished.

Oh, one other thing I don't like. She can declaim "GOD BLESS AMERICA" to a crowd of New York police officers and make it sound like a 7th grade math teacher telling them to pipe down.

But that's Hill for you.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:48 PM

"Or she is the most idiotic woman on the face of the earth."

Ummm...no, SINSULL. That would more likely be my mother's friend, Helen.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: My guru always said
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:55 PM

Oh Boy, am I glad it's not me you're chatting about - I wouldn't even want to be President *grin*
Hil

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Scoville
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 05:03 PM

The REPUBLICANS ran her health plan into the ground. Remember all that outcry about "We elected her husband, not her?".

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:04 PM

Well, I really don't have anything against her but, as MarkS said above, she really doesn't have any track record of her own. Just about everything for or against her is really a reflection of Bubba (for whom I voted twice and who is running away better than the current incumbent). Given two junior senators, Ms. Clinton and Mr. Obama, she would not be my first pick.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:08 PM

The only thing I have against Hillary is her determnation to run for president, wich will inevitably deliver the presidency into the hands of the Republicans. She Cannot Win- Period. This is not to say that she is not qualified to be president- hell, look at the incumbent!-
but that given the (largely undeserved) negative baggage she carries, and the foam-at-the-mouth reaction of the Bushite contingets, she is unelectable.

I'm still in hopes someone can convince her to step aside. The last goddamn thing the U. S. needs is Ptresident Vicar of Bray Feet of Clay tocheslekker McCain or President who the hell needs public services or infrastructureGeorge ( what IS it with that first name anyway? ) George Pataki.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:19 PM

Actually, that is why the major parties in the USA often pick totally unexciting milquetoast individuals as their candidate for president. They don't dare to try running anyone who is controversial in any sense or outspoken or anything like that....some people might not like him/her! ;-) This results in some truly mediocre candidates for president, and you can only watch and wonder, "What were they thinking?" as they run some personality-less schmuck who is so totally lacking in charisma that a dog wouldn't vote for him.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Cruiser
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:27 PM

Ebbie et al.

Firstly, I replied to your thread mostly because you are a woman. I have a great deal of respect for women and I look forward to the day when the first competent qualified woman becomes President of the United States. I do not want a masculine woman (think of past world leaders, how is that for male bias?) I want a "real" woman who is capable of reasoning and has the educational credentials to lend credence to her ability to think critically.

I acknowledge to sometimes being black and white it my views, but only following thinking things through and mostly only regarding human social behavior and based on my opinion. I have spent a good deal of my life in the science field and have dealt with scientific methodology. I am acutely aware of the non black/white shades of grey chromatic nature of life. I welcome that diversity and variability as the fact of evolution and view life as extremely beautiful, even to the extent of recognizing the beauty of a deadly virus or bacterium under high-powered microscopy. I do draw the line, in my own mind at least, when it comes to issues involving certain current social mores.

Bill D, jaze and others: WHERE the act occurred and by WHOM are of utmost importance. WHAT occurred is not the issue.   Mr. Clinton was in a position of authority "over" a subordinate in the office that should symbolize what is, or should be, good, right, and honorable about our democracy.

I have been in a position of authority when I could have taken advantage of potential consensual sexual situations. However, no matter how strong sexual urges are, there are just some situations where ethical, moral men and women abstain from disgracing a position of trust and authority. I missed several experiences I know I wanted but would have regretted because I would have violated my employer's trust and more importantly my own self-respect. In Clinton's case, his employers were also the American people and it had ramifications (no pun intended) throughout the world. The President of the United States should set an example of trust, honor, ethics, and moral standards worthy of emulation. If you have read some about Clinton, you will remember he idolized JFK and likely emulated Kennedy's sexual exploits subconsciously or consciously. Young men and women should in turn not think what Clinton did was cool and worthy of emulation.

A recent professional discussion on the current dramatic rise of STDs of the oral cavity in young teens revealed that, partly because of Clinton's actions and subsequent statements, teens thought oral sex was not "real" sex. The scientific evidence of infections of the buccal cavity illustrates otherwise. During the discussion a group of young teenaged girls, when asked why they would do something so intimate to someone they did not love and barely knew, retorted while giggling; "President Clinton did it!" I do not have a daughter (just a son), but if I did I would not want her life marred by permanent STDs anywhere, but especially not of the mouth and throat.   

I am most certainly not a prude, I am an atheist, and without further details, I have experienced just about everything sexually pleasurable a woman can do to a man. I still would not do certain things in certain places no matter how strong the stimuli. A free will, the ability to reason and exhibit moral behavior are several of the many characteristics that separate us from other members of the animal kingdom.

Furthermore, I despise Mr. Bush and Mr. Clinton equally. They are both deservedly the brunt of jokes and have done irreparable harm to the Presidency. One fool is responsible for the death of innocent humans while the other "killed" the high moral standard of and respect for the most important office in the world. It is equally as serious to have persons of the world, enemies and allies alike, who do not respect the office and power of the presidency. Such disrespect will often lead to disputes then war, which inevitably leads back to senseless killing and destruction.

In closing, JFK was not worthy of the office either and further reading by anyone will reveal he was also a very flawed unethical immoral man. Just because we have had many very flawed past presidents does not justify those flaws that have worldwide consequences. Perhaps having a woman in the office of the presidency will change the paradigm of political science to the betterment of our Nation and the world. However, unless some of my aged college professors consider running, I do not see any woman now that has the integrity and qualifications that should be required for that high office. Hillary will only cause the Democrats to lose any chance of regaining the White House. If she has any moral bearing whatsoever she will not ever run for that office. Unfortunately, I do not think the Democrats have a chance with the current field of potential candidates, male or female.

(I am a registered Republican, but notwithstanding that, I try to use reason on such political issues, if that is even possible with politics)

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:29 PM

Well, well, well...

I'm surprised that no one yet has mentionesd the first thing that comes to my mind about what I hacve against Hillary Clinton and that is...

...her support for the war!!!

Yeah, that's 'nuff fir me, thank you... I can compromise on other issues but not this one... She'd have to come almost full circle for me to support this otherwise capabale and smart woman... Like say flat out... I was wrong!!! (with no qualifiers...)

As for the health care thing that she tried to pull off as First Lady, she impressed me emensely... I don't rememebr any other First Lady takin' on such a large and controversal issue and I think she did a very good job with her various comitteees and her final product...

BTW, had the Repubs not shot this down, the country, IMO, would be a lot better off today...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 07:23 PM

Bobert

The best product in the world would gather dust on the shelf if you couldn't sell it. Selling the health care package was part of Hillary's job. And don't tell me it was up to Bill, or the Congressional Dems. It was her baby from day one, and she blew it.

Now she has considerably improved her sales skills, I wonder if she has a product. Other than herself, I mean.

LEJ

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 08:22 PM

Cruiser....what you implied, and what I rejected, was that she should have DIVORCED Bill over his stupid (sure he was stupid) bit of messing around IN the White House with an intern! (even if, as seems the case, she started it). IF that had not happened, most of what we remember would be that he dealt with the budget and had a VERY comprehensive knowlege of foreign policy.

As to the health care debacle, it is questionable whether any serious plan would have gotten thru a Republican dominated congress......sure, she was pretty naive about how to push and what to include, but I have no doubt she would not make THAT mistake again.

I, also, have some doubts that she can be elected, given the knee-jerk response to her name for many folks, but I STILL think she could handle the job.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 08:32 PM

That rumor about them destroying public property (computers) as they left was a bold faced lie. That loudmouth, O'Reilley spouted it all ove Faux tv, and even when he found out that it was a lie, he still didn't apologize.

I was looking toward John McCain until he came out in favor of sending more troops to that quagmire in Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: GUEST,Buffy
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 09:42 PM

Cruiser could use a good blowjob. He's should have the stick surgically removed from his backside first though; he'll snap it off in the clinch...

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Cruiser
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 10:00 PM

Mr. Bill D,

Okay, we are philosophically going to disagree on this one issue. My point is, in my opinion, and based on my values alone, Hillary would have put her self-respect, honor, and potential professional aspirations ahead of her marriage if she had the moral character I want to see in someone seeking that high an office.

Bill Clinton is in the same liar's category as Nixon (whom I voted for and later regretted because of his revealed deep flaws) Clinton is unworthy of any moral acclaim. He did well with the budget and with foreign affairs mainly because of his Cabinet. In addition, I think people often put charisma ahead of what really matters, at least to me, for someone in high office; honor, integrity, honesty, the ability of admit mistakes, and the self-respect not succumb to the most basic of human temptations while in a position of trust. The end does not justify the means, especially in this case.

My definition of a sexual creep would include anyone who would penetrate any woman vaginally with a cigar in the Oval Office (Clinton demeaned it to the "Oral" Office). In addition, remember that the oral sex, including oral-anal sex, was not a one-time spur of the moment "weak moment". It happened about 9 times according to sworn testimony.

Therefore, if Hillary is willing to stay married to a creep like Bill Clinton she does not have the moral fiber or self-respect to hold high office.

I would take a Jimmy Carter anytime, any day, over a Bill or Hillary Clinton.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 10:19 PM

Oh, BuffY, I would give Cruiser lots of credit for explaining at some length where he was coming from. I wouldn't ask for more. You might add a little background about yourself as well. If you were a Mudcat member you could find out more about me if you were interested.

I was less than impressed with Bill Clinton when he was first running for President in 1992 and he and Hillary paid a visit to Democrats in Portland, Maine. Hillary made no impression at all. I was impressed that he got elected and re-elected and depressed that he was indiscreet enough to get sexually involved with an intern. That was poor judgment on his part and overshadowed the major things he accomplished in other parts of the White House such as reducing the budget deficit four years in a row.

I hope Hillary stays a U.S. Senator and a new person makes his or her own way to be Democratic candidate for President. Of course, whomever they are they will in turn be demonized by the Republicans.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 10:23 PM

her ill concieved, cowardly "centrist" support for invading Iraq from the start.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 10:25 PM

That defines dammned near the whole US Congress, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 11:02 PM

Cruiser, I think it is probably very difficult for anyone who reaches the office of president of the United States these days not to be a "very flawed unethical" person by the time they get there. Why? Because of how the political system works, and what you must do to succeed in it and work your way to the top. Lying is part of the game. Handing out favours under the table, accepting same, and influence peddling of every sort is part of the game. The system does not encourage "honor, integrity, honesty, (and) the ability to admit mistakes". It encourages the antithesis of all of those.

And that is why both the Republicans and Democrats have placed some very immoral and flawed people in high office. I expect they will probably continue to do so.

I do not expect good government from either one of those parties, and I will frankly be quite surprised if they ever manage to provide it.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Cruiser
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 11:26 PM

Little Hawk, I cannot say Dipwallow! to what you say.

We have all known so many good intelligent people in our lives and it is so frustrating that those people cannot, will not, or for whatever reason run for public office. It is almost as if we need a Draft to force people into the public service of their country. BTW, I am also for reviving the military draft.

Some inequities and conundrums in life are like the lyrics in the old country western song: "It's jus one of them thangs you cain't do nothin' about".

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Linda Goodman Zebooker
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 12:23 AM

It IS a good joke, Ebbie. It shows self-confidence, is all.

When Hilary Clinton began to campaign for Senate I was still living in the state, and it got my hackles up- such an outsider! But immediately she went around on the "Listening Tour" and spoke to EVERYONE. It was clear she had a real grasp of the problems of that fairly rural+plus+ rustbelt Western New York Region, which continually lost two jobs or more for each new one gained. --Linda Goodman

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 01:31 AM

True, Cruiser. ;-) I figure, quite seriously, we would have better, more honest governments if there were no political parties at all and no elections either...but if leaders and representatives were chosen by lot at regular intervals from among a very large pool of all the qualified people from the ordinary public who were willing (and able...meaning they had the basic qualifications, education, etc) to take on the job.

You could also have a recall system, with voting, at scheduled intervals, to replace said representatives with someone else if they proved to be incompetent for whatever reason.

But I'm just dreaming, of course. Things are going to go on as they have been, and I know it. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 02:06 AM

I like her, and I think she'd make a terrific president. She's intelligent, articulate, and fairly balanced in her outlook. I think she wants what's best for her country, and she'll do her best.

I don't see another potential presidential candidate that I like nearly as well, although McCain and Obama would certainly be interesting possibilities.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 03:47 AM

From a Brit's point of view it always seemed that she ran the country during her husband's 'reign' anyway.

Incidentally, I agree with Joe on this one.

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 03:56 AM

On the divorce thing, as to why no proceedings were stsrted. Could that possibly have been something to do with the fact that a wife cannot be made to testify against her husband and vice versa?

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Cruiser
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 09:08 AM

Joe,

If Hillary won the presidency, many people like me would strongly resent the fact that Bill Clinton would live in the White House again. Even if she were a competent administrator, Bill's "legacy" would overshadow those accomplishments. Unfortunately, for Hillary at least, this is a prime example of "you can't unring a bell" The damage has been done. Obviously, many people can forget about what happened given the Clinton's present popular status. I guess I am just behind the times, my views are passé and I guess I just do not get it.

Being a bit facetious here, I wonder if ole Billy boy would have a penchant for nostalgia when he visits the Oval Office; How about just one more time for old time's sake? Ah…thanks for the memories! I wonder what Hillary would be thinking about if she were president and while sitting in the Oval Office. Could she keep her mind on critical current foreign affairs or would her mind drift to Bill's and Monica's past affairs, perhaps that occurred in the very spot she attempted her contemplations.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 09:31 AM

The President of the United States should set an example of trust, honor, ethics, and moral standards...has done irreparable harm to the Presidency... is responsible for the death of innocent humans.. .It is equally as serious to have persons of the world, enemies and allies alike, who do not respect the office... & on & on...

Yo, Cruise: and you figure the current corrupt lying sack of crap in the White House has measured up to these standards of yours how, precisely?

as for
the current dramatic rise of STDs of the oral cavity in young teens ... because of Clinton's actions and subsequent statements...

puh-leeze!

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 09:35 AM

Sorry Greg but going all the back to Honest George American presidents have not been honorable, ethical or moral. Politics rules out those qualities. They do however work hard at projecting the image and some succeed.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Gervase
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 09:58 AM

Here's another Brit who rather hopes she wins. It is odd trying to work out just why the redneck right hate her with such a vehemence - maybe it's because she's 'uppity' and forgetful that a woman's rightful place is barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Peace
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 10:04 AM

It wasn't a gender issue when Margaret Thatcher was it; it wasn't a gender issue when Golda Meir was it; it wasn't a gender issue when Kim Campbell was it; why would it be a gender issue with Hillary Clinton? As long as people see leadership through gender-issue eyes, then the sex of the individual will always be judged before the actions of the individual.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: GUEST,jaze
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 10:05 AM

I still think she was in a position that was unfair to any woman to have to live out so publicly. She's human and has feelings. Can you imagine the mortification of having the entire world watching this? Would you all be happier if she had freaked out and started divorce proceedings? She was First Lady. She maintained that position with dignity despite what it may have personally cost her. I think she is intelligent and capable. If she became president, I think it would be immensely satisfying to see him have to be subordinate to her.

Subject: RE: BS: What do YOU Have Against Hillary?
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 10:12 AM

Cruiser, you contend the rise in oral STD's is due to Clinton. Source for that claim, please. Or is it just an ill informed opinion?

I would have respect for your opinion, and your claim, I am a registered Republican, but notwithstanding that, I try to use reason on such political issues, if I saw you bringing the same moral outrage on the numbers of Republican, and conservative, hypocrites that we have seen lately and over the years.

I have met and had conversation with Hillary Clinton on several occasions due to my political activity. While I don't claim to be a friend, what I can say is that I have had several opportunities to observe her and talk with her at length. She is strikingly genuine in her beliefs. When she speaks with you, unlike most politicians, she is focused on you and engaged in the conversation. Her intelligence fairly leaps out of the conversation. She reminds me of Senator Carl Levin, in that when you speak with her, bring your A game. She will ask the kinds of probing questions that will expose phoney statements or poorly thought out beliefs. The conversation will challenge you to demonstrate why you think the way you do.

I believe it is easy to have opinions as to why she reacted to a very tough situation in her personal life, which was played out in public. I don't know that any of you could have handled it as well as she did. Black and white pronouncements on that specific issue seem to me to be easy to say.

As to whether she should be President, I am not sure. I agree with LEJ's observations about how she handled and bungled, the attempt to get the Health Care Initiative passed. But I also know that the Clinton's were coming in with an attitude that they could do anything they wanted. They soon got a lesson on "inside the beltway" politics, as well as the error of thinking the American public was ready to embrace radical change. This is the real big leagues of politics. It is my opinion that the Clintons you see after 8 years in the Crucible are not the same that you saw come marching in at the beginning. She is very intelligent and intense, and certainly possesses all the skills necessary to be a great President, as well as the first woman President. I just don't know if she is electable, but there is a side of me that has met her and hopes she runs and is successful. I will say this, if she gets the nod for the nomination, I am coming out of my political retirement to work for her.

Mick