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a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy

leeneia 20 Nov 06 - 10:40 PM
Linda Goodman Zebooker 20 Nov 06 - 11:24 PM
artbrooks 21 Nov 06 - 09:03 AM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Nov 06 - 10:49 AM
wysiwyg 21 Nov 06 - 10:59 AM
GUEST,Gerry 21 Nov 06 - 07:22 PM
leeneia 21 Nov 06 - 08:26 PM
GUEST,Gerry 22 Nov 06 - 08:20 PM
Joe Offer 22 Nov 06 - 11:30 PM
GUEST,Gerry 23 Nov 06 - 11:26 PM
Wilfried Schaum 24 Nov 06 - 08:44 AM
catspaw49 24 Nov 06 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,Gerry 27 Nov 06 - 08:21 PM
catspaw49 27 Nov 06 - 08:25 PM
leeneia 27 Nov 06 - 09:41 PM
GUEST,Gerry 28 Nov 06 - 08:31 PM
GUEST,Martin in Toronto 07 Dec 10 - 04:32 PM
GUEST,Morgana 07 Dec 10 - 05:38 PM
Joe_F 07 Dec 10 - 05:49 PM
Genie 07 Dec 10 - 07:33 PM
GUEST,DE 11 Dec 12 - 08:41 AM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Dec 12 - 10:56 AM
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Subject: a Jewish song for Christmas
From: leeneia
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 10:40 PM

OUr church is having a concert the Sunday before Christmas, and one of our songs is called Lo Yisa Goy, Lay Down Your Arms. It is a song about piece and comes from the Jewish faith. It has some words in it, apparently Hebrew, and I would like to know more about them. I can't ask the people who gave it to us, because they were Presbyterians.

So, what can anybody tell me about these words?
------------
v' cheetetoo charvo tam le-eeteem va chaneetoteyhem le maz me rot

lo yisa goy el goy chehrev velo yeelmedoo od meelchama
--------
(I am not sure that the word breaks are in the right place.)

I know that Hebrew has its own script. Is it a "done thing" to represent it this way, or was this something special done for this song?

We are getting pronunciation help from a cantor, so that part is all right.


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas
From: Linda Goodman Zebooker
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 11:24 PM

Lo yisa goy el goy cherev
Lo yilm'du od milchama

is the more "usual" transliteration. There are many "correct" ways to write transliterations - but some are more standard. It means,

Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war any more.

Lo, is "no" goy is "nation".

It's from Isaiah 2:4.

I don't quite recognize the "v' cheetetoo charvo tam le-eeteem va chaneetoteyhem le maz me rot:., possibly it's the previous sentence, "they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks"? --Linda Goodman


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 09:03 AM

I have generally heard this as a round, with both English and Hebrew words. The two common English verses, singable with the Hebrew, are:

And every man 'neath his vine and fig tree. Shall live in peace and unafraid.

And into plowshares beat their swords, Nations shall learn war no more.

The second verse is the Lo yisa goy part and the other transliterated verse may be the first one...but my Hebrew isn't good enough to say for sure.


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 10:49 AM

I can't ask the people who gave it to us, because they were Presbyterians.

???


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 10:59 AM

leeneia, is that out of the Maranatha songbook?

~S~


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 07:22 PM

Just a couple of weeks ago, I looked into this song for some friends who sing it,
and here, slightly edited, is the message I sent them.

In Hebrew, the song is known as Lo Yisa Goy,
and there's only one stanza, repeated endlessly:

Lo yisa goy el goy cherev
Lo yilmedu od milchama

Which means,

Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war any more.

This is in Isaiah, and also in Micah 4:4. The version
in Micah is,

They shall beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war any more.
But they shall sit undisturbed,
every man under his own vine and fig tree.

The first 4 lines are in both Isaiah and Micah,
but the vine and fig tree are only in Micah.
It is odd that the Hebrew song uses only the middle two lines,
while the English version leaves out only those two lines.

The 3rd English verse [my friends] attributed to Sandra Kerr is
very similar to what appears on page 198 of Rise Up Singing:

And every man neath his vine and fig tree
Shall live in peace and unafraid (repeat)
And into plowshares beat their swords
Nations shall learn war no more (repeat)
Love to your neighbor and
Love to the Spirit of all life (repeat)

These verses are credited to Leah M Jaffa and Fran Minkoff,
copyright 1962.


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 08:26 PM

"???"
I assume that my local Presbyterians (since dissolved) do not speak Hebrew.

I don't know whether our version is from the Maranatha songbook or not.

Thanks, everyone, for the information. Everyone will be pleased to hear that these are such beloved verses in Hebrew.


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 08:20 PM

Forgot to mention - there's also a recording by (Boston women's group) Libana,
to a different melody than the one I've heard elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 11:30 PM

There's a nice MIDI here (click). As was stated above, the song (with notation) can also be found under "Sacred Rounds & Chants" in the Rise Up Singing songbook.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 11:26 PM

At the site Joe linked, it's called a Yiddish song - it's not, it's Hebrew.


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 08:44 AM

Character code: Western (ISO-8859-1)

Isaiah 2:4, lines 2 and 3:

wa-kittetu harbotâm le-ittîm   wa-hamîtôtêhem le-mazmerôt
lô-yissâ goy el-goy hereb         we-lô-yilmedu 'ôd milkhâmâh

[approximate transliteration from the Biblia Hebraica]

and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more (KJV)

Unfortunately my browser has no facilities for a correct scientific transliteration but I think the simplified lines above will do.

Sing and enjoy


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 09:58 AM

Here's the translation as I see it...........

And they shall beat their keyboards into plastic shards, and their modems into complete crap; posters shall not post the same friggin' thing that has already been posted umpteen times before and they shall learn to read the rest of the damned thread before typing any reply.

I think that's in the FAQ............or should be..............

Spaw


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 08:21 PM

Spaw, I like the translation, but the meter's off a bit. Can you provide a singable version?


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 08:25 PM

Several of my meters are shot. I need to a new instrument cluster and gauge pack but parts for my year, make, and model, are getting harder to find all the time.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: leeneia
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 09:41 PM

v' cheetetoo charvo tam le-eeteem va chaneetoteyhem le maz me rot

lo yisa goy el goy chehrev velo yeelmedoo od meelchama

wa-kittetu harbotâm le-ittîm   wa-hamîtôtêhem le-mazmerôt
lô-yissâ goy el-goy hereb         we-lô-yilmedu 'ôd milkhâmâh

Thanks, Wilfried.


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 08:31 PM

And everyone with a virus firewall
Will surf the whole web unafraid (x2)

And into midis beat malware
No more spam in the blogosphere (x2)

No flames on Usenet and
No flames at Mudcat any more (x2)


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: GUEST,Martin in Toronto
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 04:32 PM

Enjoy Jaffa Road's version of this song, at
http://jaffaroadmusic.squarespace.com/music/

Martin in Toronto


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: GUEST,Morgana
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 05:38 PM

In the English version of this song, there is also a third part:

Love to your neighbor, and
Love to the spirit of all life (2x)

I think it may be an addition, rather than a translation of the original Hebrew. I myself only sing the first two parts, but the third is in Rise up Singing.


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: Joe_F
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 05:49 PM

Long ago, I heard a Hebrew version of the spiritual "Down by the River Side" in which, of course, the line "Lo yilmedu od milchama" is used. Turn about is fair play!


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Subject: RE: a Jewish anti-war song - Lo Yisa Goy
From: Genie
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 07:33 PM

The only Hebrew word I knew the specific meaning of (besides "lo") was "milchama" ("war" or "battle"), but I did know the Old Testament texts from which the song was taken & what the song was basically saying.

I sing this song all the time, usually at Jewish retirement communities, but not necessarily at this time of year.   In fact, I have a "shalom" medley which I routinely do for Martin Luther King Day programs, and this song is part of the medley.   (I don't include the English "Love to your neighbor ... " part that I think someone added later, because it doesn't fit well with the medley.

The other two songs I use in the medley are "Hevenu Shalom Aleichem" and "Shalom, Chaverim."

(I know that Shalom, Chaverim, is often - usually? - translated as "Farewell, Friends," and it is kind of a parting song, but the greeting/farewell "shalom" does mean "peace," so it fits well with the other two songs.


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: GUEST,DE
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 08:41 AM

Does anyone know if this song's melody is under copyright? Can a version be recorded without anyone's permission? If not, do you know who to ask?


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Subject: RE: a Jewish song for Christmas-Lo yisa goy
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 10:56 AM

Hello, DE. I have a copy of the the book 'Rise Up Singing,' which includes the round with words in Hebrew and in English. The book says that the English words are copyright 1962 by Appleseed Music, Inc. It doesn't say anything about a copyright for the Hebrew words or for the melody.

It does say "Hebrew from Hebrew Bible." I think we can assume that part is public domain. :)

It's a good bet that the melody is pd as well.


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