UK Licensing Act - another petition.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: GUEST,Geoff Wright
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 07:13 AM

If you think the Licensing Act has affected Music and the Arts, you haven't seen anything yet.
A new stealth tax of Olympian proportions is just over the horizon, but already, all Arts funding has been axed for the forseeable future. Which do you want - more Arts or New Labour Games organised (sic) by the Ministry for Supercasinos and Late Night Opening?.

They aren't interested in musicians' votes, so make sure yours counts!

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 03:42 AM

Deadline to sign up by: 11 June 2007

– Signatures: 69,153

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:22 AM

67,606

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 08:26 PM

65,734

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 07:25 PM

63,164

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:52 AM

61,687

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/licensing/

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 03:44 PM

59,981

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 08:14 AM

Nope, no sign of a change from mine, but after hearing today that Miskin Folk Festival is cancelled, due to heavy handed use of the new law by the local authority, he is about to receive a very angry communication from this constituent.

Don T.

The following thread is (now) about the late cancellation of this festival.

Miskin 2007

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 05:28 AM

58,167

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Mar 07 - 04:14 AM

55,268

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 12:19 PM

53,013

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 01:58 AM

50,302

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/licensing/

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 05:50 AM

This was the response to the last one. At least all those MPs who signed that one should be prepared to sign the new one.

Commons Early Day Motion 331

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 04:22 AM

True, but MPs like to be seen to respond to local requests. If enough people ask...

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 04:09 AM

Part of the problem is that signing the petition or not is a matter for the individual. The EDM is another matter.

Many (Labour) MPs - even if asked by their constituents to do so - will be unwilling to be seen to support anything that is critical of the current Government.

I have written to ask mine to sign - but it is mostly unlikly that he will be prepared to sign it. Especially now that he is a junior minister in that Government.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 03:38 AM

People seem to be reading this thread but not the new one about the Early Day Motion, which keeps falling off the bottom of the page.

The government can happily ignore the petition, but the early day motion is a different matter. This development could the the breakthrough if enough MPs sign.

Everyone who signed the petition needs to now contact his or her MP and ask them to sign the Early Day Motion here: CLICK THIS

Notice how few MPs have signed so far.

If you don't know who your MP is, CLICK THIS It's very easy to contact your MP, and they're far more likely to react to a constituent than the PM is to a petition.

If you want some words to help you with your message REWRITE THIS.

"It is important to use your own words, but some of these points may help:

* The most recent DCMS/MORI research found that 40% of smaller venues have lost any automatic entitlement to live music as a result of the new Licensing Act ('Licensing Act 2003 - The Experience of Smaller Establishments in applying for live music authorisation', December 2006').

* There is uncertainty about the status of the 60% of smaller venues said to have live music authorisation. DCMS do not know whether live music licence conditions, where they apply, have been implemented. Unless such conditions are implemented by the venue, having live music remains illegal.

* Under the old regime 100% of bars and restaurants licensed to sell alcohol could automatically provide one or two musicians.

* In the changeover to the new regime, all such venues were automatically granted permission to play recorded music, which also allows the provision of DJs.

* The provision of big screen broadcast sport or music is exempt, anywhere, no matter how powerfully amplified.

* The government has never provided any evidence that live music causes significant social harm, nor any evidence that live music is a greater risk as an entertainment than big screen sport in bars."

Thanks

Tom

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 08:16 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/saturdaylive/2007/03/lord_redesdale.html

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 06:04 AM

There is also a new Commons Early Day Motion (EDM) for you to ask your MP to sign.

Full details can be found on the following thread.

UK Licensing - Contact your MP

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 05:45 AM

(Which he rated top of his list of achievements in the House of Lords.)

It was a great disapointment when he sttod up in the Lords to announce that his side would still argue against many of the measures proposed but were going to vote with the Government.

For had he and the Lib Dem peers not supported the Government, the then Bill would not have become the current Act.

That would have been a far more effective way of protecting Morris dancing, sessions and many other things.

Did he explain why he did not take this course? One I feel that he could really have been proud of.

My understanding was that he regretted his actions, felt that he had been out manouvered and had obtained far more concessions than he actually had.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 05:19 AM

Anyone else hear Lord Redesdale on Saturday Live (BBC Radio 4) this morning, describing how he did the deal with Tessa Jowell to get Morris dancing exempted from the licensing requirement? (Which he rated top of his list of achievements in the House of Lords.)

Kitty

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 08:35 AM

The live music forum will produce its analysis in the next few weeks. Current evidence is anecdotal, but it none the less suggests a broadly neutral impact.

No sign then of the 'explosion in live music' expected by the Government's Lord MacIntosh on the Act's introduction......

Now that the Government side now seem happy to see the statistics showing waht they see as 'a broudly neutral impact' - this is perhaps a good time to be reminded of the Government's response to the first petition.

We believe that the Act will make it simpler and more affordable than now to stage live entertainment in the vast majority of cases and increase opportunities for musicians and other artists to perform

We have also given an undertaking that we will review the existing descriptions of entertainment in the Act six to twelve months after the end of the transition period. If the Act has had an unintended, disproportionate negative effect on the provision of live music -or other forms of regulated entertainment-, there are powers already in the Bill to modify the position through secondary legislation. However we believe that the provisions in the Licensing Act will allow live music and other regulated entertainment to thrive.

As was pointed out at the time - it would be difficult not to improve on the then figure of 5% of premises with the old Public Entertainment Licence. But the important thing to remember is that some form of limited live music could then still take place in the remaining 95%.

As a result of the Act and the resulting and much lauded abolition of the 'two in a bar rule' - any form of live music is now made illegal - it would appear from the statistics - in 40% of available premises with a Premises Licence but without entertainment pemission.

Not my idea of a 'broadly neutral impact' or an 'explosion in live music'.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 08:10 AM

46,351

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: Bainbo
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 06:57 PM

I have my doubts about how effective these petitions are going to be. At the moment, I notice there are two concurrent petitions calling for the road pricing plan to be scrapped, and another calling for it not to be scrapped; there's one calling for the national anthem to be replaced with "Gold" by Spandau Ballet (5,546 signatures); and among the signatories to one calling for Ashley Hutchings to be knighted are one or two familiar names, but also "Matthew Groves" and "G R Esford Di Saster." Yeah, that one's gonna be taken seriously.

Still, if it raises the issue's profile, I suppose there's no actual harm in signing it. Apart from letting the Government have my name, addres and email. Which they probably have, already.

Yes, I'll sign.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:22 PM

The following from Hamish Birchall

More than 40,000 have signed the live music/licensing petition which currently stands at no.4 in the list of over 4,200 petitions on the Number 10 site:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/list/open?sort=signers (to view petitions in order of signatures)
a href=http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/licensing/> http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/licensing/(to sign)

The petition was mentioned yesterday in the Commons during a short exchange between the licensing minister, Shaun Woodward, and MPs Malcolm Moss and Anne Milton (shadow culture minister). See Hansard extract below.

Note that Mr Woodward did not answer Malcolm Moss's question about the validity of the '60% of smaller venues licensed for live music' claim recently made by DCMS.

Woodward also rather misleadingly suggests that getting a licence for live music is a simple one-off process. It is a one-off process only for new applications seeking a permanent authorisation. Whether this is simple or not largely depends on whether there are any objections.

For those venues with a premises licence without a live music authorisation (at least 40%), another application ('variation') is required, plus the full premises licence fee, public advertisement costs and possible knock-on costs if objections lead to a public hearing. Annual 'inspection' fees remain, of course, albeit at a reduced level.

Places without a premises licence, but still requiring a live music authorisation, must apply for a Temporary Events Notice (up to 12 permitted per premises per year), £21 a time.

Note also that despite the latest MORI research, the minister is careful to refer to the evidence of the Act's impact as 'anecdotal'. Could he be refering to the latest Musician's Union survey?

~ ~ ~
House of Commons Monday 05 March 2007 - Oral Questions:

Licensing Act
8. Mr. Malcolm Moss (North-East Cambridgeshire) (Con): What assessment she [Tessa Jowell] has made of the effect of the provisions of the Licensing Act 2003 on the performance of live music. [124568]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr. Shaun Woodward): The live music forum will produce its analysis in the next few weeks. Current evidence is anecdotal, but it none the less suggests a broadly neutral impact.

Mr. Moss: According to the MORI research commissioned by the Minister's Department, only 60 per cent. of smaller venues that previously offered live music were given licences under the LicensingAct 2003, many of which have expensive conditions attached. Will the Minister tell the House what proportion of that group implemented the conditions? If he cannot do so, does that not render the statistics worthless, and what is the value of the Department's boast that the Act is good for live music?

Mr. Woodward: As the hon. Gentleman knows—he takes a keen interest in this area, which we welcome—the research published in December looked at 2,000 small establishments. It discovered that in only 3 per cent. of cases the new licensing requirements were a deterrent. From the anecdotal evidence, however, the impact appears to be broadly neutral, although it may be better than that. The hon. Gentleman will know that we are conducting a detailed analysis, which we will publish later. He should remember that the new process means that there is only one application, one fee and no renewals. The additional bonus is that local residents, who were seriously affected in the past by live music, now have a say, which is important.

Anne Milton (Guildford) (Con): I wonder whether the Minister is aware that over 38,000 people have signed the Downing street petition on live music. What comfort can he give that ever-growing body of people? Does he agree with the person who was recently reported in the press as saying that whoever dreamtup Downing street petitions was—and I quote with apologies, Mr. Speaker—"a prat"?

Mr. Woodward: We absolutely agree with the 30,000 people who rightly do not want music and dance to be restricted by burdensome licensing regulations. If the hon. Lady looks at the changes, she will see that there is one application process and one fee, with no renewals. Inconsistent fees, which were often excessive, and the standard book of conditions have been removed, and the fact that 63 per cent. of venues have either obtained a music licence or put on live music via other means shows that the Act is working. In a survey, 55 per cent. of people said that they found the process easy, although I admit that 25 per cent. found it hard. We will work to improve the system—we believe that it has already been improved—and we will take very seriously the evidence submitted in the next few weeks to see whether there are more improvements to be made.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 06:48 PM

41,696

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 06:46 AM

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/licensing/

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 06:45 AM

35,328

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 04:49 AM

26,510

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: Tootler
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 05:39 PM

"According to their FAQs they only allow one signature from each computer to stop people inputting multiple signatures. This is because it is too easy to get loads of e-mail addys now."

Yet myself, my wife and my daughter all successfully signed the road pricing petition on the same computer as we currently only have one computer connected to the internet.

So it seems their checking is a little haphazard to say the least.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 05:04 AM

Quote from the above Telegraph article:

The Transport Secretary, Douglas Alexander, has accused its organisers of spreading "myths" and pledged to press ahead with plans to pilot the scheme.

I don't understand how they can pilot the scheme, without forcing a subset of motorists to install the GPS equipment in their cars. Who in their right minds would volunteer to take part?

(btw, "myths" = "what will happen if this becomes law" - just like the "myths" people 'spread' about the Licencing Bill, before that became law)

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 04:57 AM

17,633

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 01:55 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/18/nblairmail118.xml

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: Barry Finn
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 01:53 AM

100!

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 01:52 AM

Is everyone who signed this petition also going to get an emailed reply from our Prime Minister?

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 10:15 AM

Yes, but I would guess that many people only have one PC in the house. And if you borrow a laptop that might stop its owner using it to sign the petition.

They should check a combination of name, email address and PC IP no. or something, and only disallow the vote if they are all the same as one already received. At the moment, it seems they only check the IP address (I think, anyway), because my wife's email address, and (perhaps obviously!) name, are different from mine. So it must be based on using the same computer only.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 10:07 AM

15,871

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: vectis
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 11:46 AM

My house has a LAN fitted and my son has managed to sign the same petition as me from a different computer but via the same router. So it obviously is not the same house that's the problem maybe it is the same computer that is the problem. In which case all you need to do is borrow a laptop and sign via that. Is there a techie out there who knows what the petition site can 'see' and therefore control when you vote.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 11:35 AM

Yes, I would think so! Might be worth bearing this stupid rule in mind for future petitions.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 11:31 AM

13,876

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/licensing/

So if it is only one signature per houshold - do we just double the figure?

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: vectis
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 09:00 AM

Just got a confirmatory e-mail on the 12th try. I put in a non-Hotmail address and it went through immediately.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 06:39 AM

So it means only one person can vote per household in most cases, then. The system is badly flawed.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: Tootler
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:17 PM

I had to try twice. The first time I got no confirmatory email, but the second time, several days later I did.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: vectis
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 11:12 AM

According to their FAQs they only allow one signature from each computer to stop people inputting multiple signatures. This is because it is too easy to get loads of e-mail addys now.
So one of you will have to sign from somewhere else.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 10:34 AM

Re. the confirmatory emails: I got mine but Mrs Scrump didn't get hers, even though she has the same domain name/server as mine. I wonder if the site isn't sending all the emails out, or whether it does a check on the IP address or something? That means people using the same computer to vote might not be able to, and the number of votes could be smaller than it should be.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 10:23 AM

That is now showing at 13,076.

Let us know when they send out your Email.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: vectis
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:38 AM

I have now tried every day for the last ten days to sign this and so far have not received the e-mail needed to confirm the signature. This could mean that the number of people signing is a lot higher than the numbers on the petition would indicate.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:11 AM

The following from Hamish Birchall

Please circulate

Over 11,400 people have signed the live music/licensing petition on the Number 10 website. At the time of writing it stands at number 8 in the list of nearly 3,000 petitions and is likely to climb higher today:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/licensing/

The petition was backed by Libby Purves in The Times on 6 February:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk:80/tol/comment/columnists/libby_purves/article1336496.ece

In the last few days the Number 10 petition website has attracted widespread media coverage due to the petition opposing the government's road pricing proposals . See today's online Guardian, for example: http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs/story/0,,2011954,00.html

Ministers, and some in the press, have cast doubt on the value of such petitions. But one thing is clear: a successful petition does raise public and media awareness about an issue, making it more difficult for politicians to ignore.

In the next few weeks, the Live Music Forum will present its recommendations for improvement of the Licensing Act to ministers.

Please consider signing the petition if you haven't already done so. If you have signed, encourage friends to sign. Points to remember about the new law:

For the first time, private performances raising money for charity are illegal unless licensed.

School performances open to friends and family are licensable - they count as public performances.

The unlicensed provision of even one musician is a potential criminal offence - although some places are exempt, including places of public religious worship, royal palaces and moving vehicles. Max penalty: £20,000 fine and six months in prison.

The rationale is to prevent noise, crime and disorder, to ensure public safety, and the protection of children from harm.
But broadcast entertainment, including sport and music, is exempt no matter where, and no matter how powerfully amplified.

In the transition to the new regime in 2005, bars with jukeboxes, CD players etc were automatically granted a licence to play recorded music; but their automatic entitlement to one or two live musicians was abolished.

Under the old regime all premises licensed to sell alcohol for consumption on the premises were automatically allowed up to two live musicians (the 'two in a bar rule').

Last December, DCMS published research confirming that about 40% of these have lost any automatic entitlement to live music as a result of the new Act:
'Very few establishments that wanted a new licence were denied it, and many who were previously limited to 2-in-a-bar now have the ability to stage music with 2 or more musicians... This contrasts, of course, with the fact that 40% of establishments now have no automatic means of putting on live music (i.e. they would have to give a TEN).'
['Licensing Act 2003, The experience of smaller establishments in applying for live music authorisation', December 2006', paragraphs 6.1.1 and 6.1.2 'Conclusions', p54; Caroline Callahan, Andy Martin, Anna Pierce, Ipsos-MORI]

'TEN' stands for Temporary Event Notice - in effect a temporary entertainment licence. Only 12 are allowed per premises per year. They cost £21 each. See the full MORI reports on this site:
http://www.culture.gov.uk/Reference_library/Research/research_by_dcms/live_music_exec_summary.htm

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: GUEST,Dominic Cronin
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 04:44 PM

Dear all,

Thanks for the support for the petition.

I know some people think it's too inclusive, but let's get one thing straight right now. The law already had ample provision for dealing with nuisance. Any suggestions of that being the intention were simply smoke and mirrors.

Personally, I fully support people's right to have raves, classical concerts, whatever. (Of course, if they infringe on other people's quiet enjoyment of their homes, then the environmental health officers from the council can do their bit.)

Support for the petition is also coming from outside the world of folk music.

http://www.cronin.co.uk/licensing

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 02:00 AM

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/licensing/

10,944

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act - another petition.
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 01:09 PM

10,402