BS: Are you a 'natural person'?

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: GUEST,Natural Guest
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 01:39 PM

Geez...you folks SHOULD limit this forum to members only. Talk about being closed to new ideas.

This makes me think of the Stockholm Syndrome, where you develop an affinity with your kidnapper. You folks are being held captive by the I.R.S., and you love it. You WANT to pay taxes. Somehow you've been convinced the Federal Reserve is a part of the government (must be the inclusion of the word 'federal' in the name of the bank, which makes Federal Express a branch of the govt, too, I guess). So you've been duped into paying a hefty portion of your income to a private bank, and now you want to continue throwing away your money in ignorance. But you really shouldn't do that, because the World Bank uses that money to wage war on poor countries...in order to extend its usurious banking practices into those countries. Bush's Rogue States are the 60-odd nations that don't have a branch of the World Bank. Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran...they don't (or didn't) have central banks linked to the World Bank, therefore, your income tax was and will be used to kill civilians in those countries so the World Bank can seize the national assets. You really don't have any idea how the world works, do you?

As far as my taxes go, you'd cry if I told you what my status is. It'd piss you off too. I pay local taxes, gasoline tax, property tax, etc., but why would I even THINK about paying protection money to the I.R.S. strongarm thugs? All change begins at home, so if you want to get out of the income tax scam, do some searches and hire one of the consulting services.

Just curious, how many of you think Federal Express is a part of the government?

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:01 PM

My Gawd! I'm a freakin' GENIUS!

I've been wondering how long it would take for one of our resident conspiracy theorists to accuse those who disagree with his latest paranoid seizure of being victims of the Stockholm syndrome!

Accusations of MEMEs and cognitive dissonance are ones I have been waiting for also.

This, of course, is a dodge. You accuse those who disagree with you of one of these goodies, then if they protest, you sit back, smile smugly, and claim that that's all part of the syndrome, hence you are proven right.

Bovine excrement!

You think it saves going to the trouble of providing solid evidence for your contentions. But it doesn't.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:21 PM

NG, it seems never to have occurred to you that other people- people who actually think - are way ahead of those of you who get your ideas and theories in one great lump from basically one source. The fact that the one source is then quoted ad infinitum, ad nauseum, by and to like-minded paranoics does not lend legitmacy to the source.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: jeffp
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 03:14 PM

I challenge you to tell us what your status is. And prove it. If you're so brave, give us your name and show us how you are standing up to the IRS. I think you're a liar.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: GUEST,Natural Guest
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 08:58 PM

Oh no. Firthing at the mouth has begun. And Ebbie has unloaded a lump of something nauseum. And jeffp is pissed. lol But okay...I'll tell you exactly how to avoid income tax...

                     get the door honey

...avoiding taxes. Let's see, all you need is this one little form. I have one here. It's called a....

damn officer! where'd you come from? Weapon? It's just a keyboard. Don't shoo...

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Peace
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 09:02 PM

So, when is your release date?

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 09:05 PM

I want some of what he's on...

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Peace
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 09:08 PM

I hear that!

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 09:13 PM

Peace, I was talking about our guest...

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Peace
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 09:18 PM

I know. I want some, too. That's why I said "I hear that."

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Peace
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 09:18 PM

Sorry, FT. "I hear that" is a North American expression that means, "I agree with you."

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 09:36 PM

I thought you were talking about what the police officer is on. *G*

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Peace
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 09:39 PM

WHAT COP? OK, maybe I don't need what whoever is on is on. In fact, I just noticed that this is NOT the 'unnatural acts with melons dressed in state-of-the-art imitation mother-of-pearl sequin gown' thread. I am SO embarrassed.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: jeffp
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 10:09 PM

Actually, I'm greatly amused at your antics. I can't believe you expect to be taken seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 11:16 PM

Everybody expects to be taken seriously. Consider, for example, people like George Bush...or the Jehovah's Witnesses that come to your door and mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 11:41 PM

I know, but sometimes people are just asking to be laughed at.

What can one do but oblige?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: GUEST,Natural Guest
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 11:49 PM

Hey, Little Hawk, I came across some interesting stuff about the Jehovah's Witnesses a while back. Lost that link but there are others. Things about the pyramids and the Pleides star system they claim (or the founders did) was the seat of heaven. Here's the first site that popped up on a search:

http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm

Maybe this is where income taxpayers think their money is going. Who knows?

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 12:29 AM

Hmmm. Lotta strange stuff there.

The funny thing is, I've known some very intelligent people who were Jehovah's Witnesses (as well as numerous others who were just average intelligence). This has proven to me that the most important component determining people's beliefs is not their intelligence, but their personal background. What I mean is, most of them grew up in families that were JV's, and they just naturally adopted that view of things as they grew up and it became their bedrock understanding of reality.

The same is true of most people. They are not nearly as objective as they think they are.

The most interesting case was a very bright young Chinese woman who did the other thing: she rebelled totally against her traditional Chinese family by becoming a Jehovah's Witness in her early 20's. That can happen too. I could never figure out how she could reconcile her keen intelligence with some of her JV beliefs.

On the other hand, I'll say this of the JVs. They are generally very well-behaving, responsible, honest people, and good neighbours.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:26 AM

"I just noticed that this is NOT the 'unnatural acts with melons dressed in state-of-the-art imitation mother-of-pearl sequin gown' thread. "

For duty, the woman.
For pleasure, the boy.
For Ecstasy, the melon.

Old Arab Saying - so I was told...

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: GUEST,Natural Guest
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 11:52 PM

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6716929127738729234

15-minute video clip of Marcella Brooks. She was featured in the film America: Freedom to Fascism. She was the foreman on the jury that found Whitey Harrell not guilty of failure to file. The jury was TOLD it was the law and had tax code thrown at them, but they were never shown the law. Fascinating. This is film of her speaking at a Press Club somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 12:21 PM

Interesting. However, in what way does Illinois state law - or lack thereof - affect federal law?

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:27 AM

Actually I found the real answer to the tax thingie on CreationWiki


Creationist 'employed by God' charged with tax fraud
While facing 58 counts of tax fraud, Kent Hovind asserts he has no income or property because everything belongs to God.
WorldNetDaily. July 26, 2006.

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51236

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: GUEST,Undeniable Truth
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:08 PM

Guest, the natural person is just a legal entity and not the real man or woman. Check out the reasoning, below.


http://www.suijuris.net/forum/citizenship-jurisdiction/3801-sovereign-person-entity-individual-3.html

Some people misunderstand the use of the phrase "natural person". Supreme Court has held that a "person" (of any kind) is a fictitious legal or commercial entity. Most people think that a natural person is a reference to a human being, and they are right - partially.

While a natural person is technically a human being, it is not a human being in sovereign form, but a human being in legal or commercial form. The definition of "natural person" given in Black's Law Dictionary, as well as the state codes is "A human being which has been ascribed rights and duties by the State". In other words it's more word games trying to make you think that, if you are a human being, the word "natural person" applies to you. This is ONLY if you declare yourself to be a "person". If you are a sovereign, you cannot be given rights and duties by the states, because, as Supreme Court said, "Let a State be subordinate to the people... [the State] is the inferior contrivance of man..." If a State is inferior to me, how does the State presume to tell me what my rights and duties are? It is the PEOPLE who tell the STATES what the State's rights and duties are, and the only way that role can be reversed is if the sovereigns agree to it. If you are a sovereign (which the people are), then you are not a "person" OF ANY KIND, unless you declare yourself to be so. The Supreme Court has repeatedly held this, and "natural person" is the latest word game of the attorneys. Supreme Court says if you ARE a sovereign, you CANNOT be a "person".
Last edited by hooded50 : 02-07-2007 at 06:56 AM.


http://www.suijuris.net/forum/citizenship-jurisdiction/3801-sovereign-person-entity-individual-4.html

So far, I've had three judges recuse themselves from any case involving me, another judge who retired rather than answer my questions, and another judge who refused to act against me when confronted with these facts. Hence, your contention that "...it always loses when it is the support to a legal argument." is, in and of itself, erroneous. There is no "legal argument", because what I've given is facts that the Supreme Court for the united States of America has confirmed. The various Codes of the States defines a "person" as "..an individual, corporation, trust, estate, association or other legal or commercial entity."The Supreme Court for the united States of America held in Vermont Agency of Natural Resources v. United States ex rel. Stevens that: "...The definition of "person"...includes...any natural person, partnership, corporation, association, or other legal entity." Even Supreme Court admits that a "natural person" is still a "legal entity", and that the term "natural person" falls within the definition of "person". A "natural person" is a human being, but it is a human being that is legally recognized as a "legal" entity, and not recognized as a "sovereign". Last edited by hooded50 : 02-07-2007 at 06:52 PM.


See the reference to the court case, below.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/98-1828.ZO.html

14 The dissent contends that our argument "prove[s] too much," since
the definition of "person" in §3733(l)(4) includes not just States, but also "any natural person, partnership, corporation, association, or other legal entity"; under our reasoning, it contends, all of those entities would also be excluded from the definition of "person" under §3729. Post, at 11.

Undeniable Truth

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:23 PM

See?

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: mrdux
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 07:18 PM

How could I have missed it?

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 09:36 PM

So we're all 'Sovereigns' then?

Ah - who can remember the original 'be your own pope' movement/conspiracy?

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: GUEST,Ayzed
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 01:13 AM

This being my first(and possibly only)visit to this site I couldn't help but add my two cents worth. Two cents of what? you may ask.

You all need to read a book by 'Mary Elizabeth Croft' entitled 'How I Clobbered Every Cash Confiscatory Agency Know To Man'. It can be found at

http://www.finacialoutrage.org.uk

You wont have any problem finding it once you're there. This will give a good heads up on the situation. There's plenty more out there if you search for it.

Natural Guest knows their stuff. Listen (read) wisely.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 06:51 AM

http://www.finacialoutrage.org.uk does not now exist... more paranoia!!!!!

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: jeffp
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 07:05 AM

Natural Guest is a paranoid idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 11:48 AM

They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: GUEST,Natural Guest
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:36 PM

Sheep. Can't even do a yahoo search for financialoutrage. Here are some links:

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geu4u8LvhFeNEAkiCl87UF?ei=UTF-8&fr=sfp&p=financialoutrage

Here's an interesting page from the site:

http://www.financialoutrage.org.uk/returning_the_money_to_the_people.htm

Yes, Ayzed, unfortunately I do know this stuff. The people around me are living in a dream world.

If you neanderthals want further enlightenment on financial matters, I suggest you look at the "Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports" thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 02:01 PM

Sheep. Can't even do a yahoo search for financialoutrage.

LOL. NG, you just did not understand the post from Foolestroupe.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 05:34 PM

"DURING AN AVERAGE LIFETIME THE FINANCIAL ESTABLISHMENT ARE STEALING £180,000 FROM EVERYONE WITH A PENSION AND A MORTGAGE"

Funnily enough Little Fascist Johnny and his mad mates have finally realised that ripping off Superannuation by triple taxing it is only pushing people to NOT have sufficient super, thus ensuring that they will all want pensions, so now they have decided that as from NEXT year, payouts will now be tax free. A bit late for many...

The clever rich bastards who can use tax credits to pay mortgages on any property used for investment definitely DO have an advantage over all the poor bastards who cannot have a tax credit for the mortgage payments on their own principal residence....

Interestingly, if you are on a pension (but not if you are just unemployed!) you can get extra 'rent subsidy' to help someone ELSE pay off a mortgage on a property you RENT, but you are screwed for paying off you OWN mortgage where you live. If you think about it, those paying off their OWN mortgages in difficult financial situations probably need the help MORE to stop them losing their OWN home.

None of this is due to 'conspiracies', it's just bloody stupid minded laziness on the part of politicians, who are almost always form a 'richer' class than many of the people they represent!

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 05:47 PM

The site refused to show when I tried to access it.

At the bottom of the yahoo search link above currently is

have you checked "www.financialoutrage.org.uk"?
No.
Best Answer - Chosen by users


:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 08:44 AM

Well, I was thinking you were making a joke about Ayzed's typo by repeating it. I thought it was a good joke but I was wrong. Correcting the typo in the URL instead of just c&p finds the site.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 05:49 PM

I just copy pasted the given url - how would I be expected to know there was a typo? And why would I not know that there was supposed to more paranoia in a 'paranoia thread'?

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: GUEST,toadz100
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 11:31 AM

Hi all, I see that some of you reference Mary Croft's book "How I Clobbered..." Has anyone used the the info in her book to access their 'closed account' funds from the Dept. of the Treasury. If you have would you be willing to share the info as to how one accesses it??

Any help helps!!

CU!!
toadz

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 01:34 PM

Wow. I thought this was about Do you shave your legs if you're American, or something.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 10:30 PM

Despite my suburban exterior I was an American Shaman at one time.
Of course I wasn't the fascinating part. It was the clients who had the amazing experiences that were beyond a real life Twilight Zone.

Out of 12,000 people there were about 500 people whose stories need to be told.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: GUEST,Natural Guest
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 11:40 PM

Oh yeah, tax day in the U.S. When was that? A couple of days ago? I meant to file this year, but then I remembered...I DON'T HAVE TO!

...I also told her, "If it makes you feel any better, you're not alone - the credit card banks think I owe them $40,000. I know that I don't really owe them, I just don't know how to prove it." Lo and behold, she said, "You just send the letters." I leapt from my chair - my prayer had indeed been answered - ask and ye shall receive. She then produced a series of letters, the drift of which was to request the bank to provide me with three things:
1. validation of the debt (the actual accounting);
2. verification of their claim against me (a sworn affidavit or even just a signed invoice); and,
3. a copy of the contract binding both parties.
I was to write, as soon as I received these three documents, that I would be happy to pay any financial obligation I might lawfully owe.The banks can't validate the debt because they never sustained a loss; they can't verify any claim against me because I am not the NAME they are billing - more on this later. They can't produce a copy of the contract because one doesn't exist. What exists is an unenforceable unilateral contract. What the banks refer to as 'your contract with us' is not a valid bilateral agreement since the four requirements of a lawful, binding contract were not met on the credit card 'application', namely:
1. Full Disclosure (we are not told that we are creating the credit with our signature);
2. Equal Consideration (they bring nothing to the table, hence they have nothing to lose);
3. Lawful Terms and Conditions (they are based upon fraud); and
4. Signatures of the Parties (corporations can't sign because they have no right to contract as they are legal fictions). Credit cards are win/ win for the banks and lose/ lose for everyone else - it is the slickest con game on the planet....

Interesting book.

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&fr=sfp&p=How+I+Clobbered+Every+Cash+Confiscatory+Agency&u=www.freedomfiles.org/mary

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: Peace
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 12:00 AM

Your link doesn't seem to work.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: GUEST,Natural Guest
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 08:08 PM

http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=UTF-8&fr=sfp&p=How+I+Clobbered+Every+Cash+Confiscatory+Agency

Several links to the book there. One of them should work.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: GUEST,Natural Guest
Date: 05 May 07 - 10:07 PM

"Land, protected by Land Patent, can't lawfully be seized for debt or taxes." Therefore, no mortgage or tax liability can stand against a Land Patent.

http://www.teamlaw.org/LandPatents.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 May 07 - 06:33 AM

We love the moon, cause it is close to us....

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: GUEST,Natural Guest
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:06 PM

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Ed+Brown+says+feds+have+no+jurisdiction+in+New+Hampshire&articleId=844a9c5f-547

The US govt is being revealed for the criminal enterprise it is, because of the internet, so they're staging an event. This Ed Brown situation is potentially the most explosive thing going on in America right now. The feds are going to murder these people and hope some of the police get killed in the exchange. That way, Bush can enact the 'insurrection' provisions of the new Patriot Act. After half a million cops are killed, the ferrign troops will be called in. I don't know how cops go along with this crap.

Buy ammo.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:18 PM

I bought the wrong bannanas...

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:20 PM

There is a videotaped interview of Mr. Brown HERE. I have not studied it enough to really comment, but from what I hear he sounds a bit off the wall/crazy BUT my Rog and I both have a tiny bit of admiration for him because he seems willing to "turn the screw."

I do NOT believe it is going to go the way you have predicted.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: GUEST,Natural Guest
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 12:41 AM

Well, I just listened to an interview with people inside the Brown's house. People have been coming and going in support, and one young man was out walking the Brown's dog this moring. The dog sensed something and the dog walker noticed tree branches had been cut back into the wooded area nearby. He approached, and two men in camoflauge jumped up and confronted him. Aimed rifles at him. The dog took off running, and so did the man. Two shots were fired and they narrowly missed his head. The cops ran him down, tazered him, then later told him to repeat some story they made up about what happened. They told him he'd spend 25 years in prison if he told what happened. And he was on a radio describing the event in detail. lol

Witnesses say a hundred federal cops have surrounded the place, there are 4 armored personnel carriers patroling, two hover drones photographing. The feds are switching the power on and off, jamming communications, etc.

The young man this morning possibly disrupted a sniper assault on the house. The federal government IS going to kill these people. I was very glad when Elaine Brown returned to her husband. She had a breakdown during the government's torturing and agreed to some kind of sentence which required her to wear an ankle bracelet ID tag while staying with one of her kids. She cut the fucking thing off and returned to her husband, and she says they don't plan to leave the house alive. She also said plans are in place to deal with the feds who have tortured the couple over the past few years. And the Brown's friends know what the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is for -- the right to bear arms to prevent government abuses. So when the Browns are killed, the judges and attorneys and cops that tortured them will probably be eliminated.

The feds have evacuated everyone within a mile of the place, and that's because they know what snipers can do. The local cops won't have that luxury if this develops into a rebellion. The cops in my area will kick in one door, kill the family, and that will be it. They won't make it to the second door. Half my neighbors can kill a deer at 400 yards, so the police will be in for a hard time if they try to go along with the federal government's martial law plans. I don't think our cops will though.

Should be interesting. I just want to drill a few ChiComs.

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 02:46 AM

la la la la la ....

Subject: RE: BS: Are you a 'natural person'?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 02:46 AM

200 thank you!