BS: smoking in uk pubs

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 12:21 PM

The ban relates to public places and workplaces - I don't think that a club on private premises with no staff employed would be covered. No doubt there will be grey areas here and it will become clearer in practice.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: skipy
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 11:52 AM

I want a smokers only pub where men can go dressed as ladies!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:15 AM

Well talking about Homosexual Clubs, they are a minority, and they don't appear to lack for rights under the law. Perhaps they should allow Smoking Clubs.
Would the smokers wear plaid shirts and have moustaches, and weirdly sculptured facial hair too?

Giok ¦¬]

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:13 AM

Nanny Blair's take over all human activity is nearly complete

Yes, stage one - the banning of folk singing in pubs - is just the start. Blair's ultimate goal is to make it compulsory for all UK citizens to listen to the Bee Gees, Cliff Richard and Oasis at all times (plus the recording of the Ugly Rumours reunion concert, to be held later this year as part of his "Blaze of Glory" departure; and the complete Labour Party conference speeches of our esteemed PM).

Of course we will all have to carry licenced iPods, and we will be taxed per minute of listening. The iPods will require an annual check to make sure they are properly charged with the designated mp3s (this check will of course be mandatory at a cost to the owner). Anyone caught fast-forwarding through Sir Cliff's version of the Lord's Prayer set to the tune of Old Lang Syne, will be fined for speeding.

By Jove I needed that! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 08:59 AM

i detest smoking,just thiught i would mention that

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: skipy
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 07:59 AM

I'm going to hold a smokeathon!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 07:43 AM

I can't open a smoking club, an activity that has been legal for centuries. Nanny Blair's take over all human activity is nearly complete

Yes, it's interesting that the law won't allow anyone to start a 'smoking club', i.e. a room where smokers could gather to enjoy a smoke together. As a non-smoker, I can't see any reason why anyone should object to that, assuming there would be no staff who could be affected by the smoke. Yet I assume it would be legal for a bunch of smokers to gather in an outside place, say the market square in a town centre, and puff away - this would cause more inconvenience to the non-smoking public than gathering in a private 'club' room.

But I assume there's nothing to stop anyone inviting other smokers to their home for a smoking session? Or is that being made illegal too?

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 03:27 PM

As someone remarked above, I am amazed and mortified at the recollection of how oblivious to non-smokers I was in the years I was a smoker. I operated as if I really believed that I could make the explanatory remark "But I smoke" and that meant that I could smoke anywhere I wished.

Oh, and Doug R, I don't agree at all that one should not tell others when one has decided to quit smoking. Keeping the decision secret to me means that one has not actually decided.

All of my four brothers quit smoking before I did. What helped me was when one brother told me to not try anymore, that when I am actually ready to quit it would be much easier.

That is what I did. I still wanted to smoke but I no longer wanted to be a smoker, if that makes sense. So on one Wednesday I told everyone I was quitting on Sunday, and on Sunday night I threw the last pack into the fire, washed all the ashtrays and went to bed.

That was 29 years ago. I still kind of like the smell of a cigarette when it is being smoked outdoors as long as it is not too close, but I am grateful that it is rare to find a smokey public place.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 10:05 AM

The thing that really pisses me off, is the fact that I could open a gambling club, a gay club, or a late night drinking club, all of which were prohibited practices until recently. But I can't open a smoking club, an activity that has been legal for centuries. Nanny Blair's take over all human activity is nearly complete.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 08:16 AM

hi all, you seemed to have missed my point...if a pub/folk club or wherever chooses to smoke.....it is your freedom as none-smoker not to enter.

Yes, but supposing I enter a pub and order a meal, then a smoker comes in, sits next to me and starts blowing smoke at me as I eat? Of course I have the 'freedom' to just abandon the meal if I choose, but why should I? This is what can happen now.

but as a smoker i am now refused.

No, you're not. You can come in and drink, eat, chat, etc. But you're just not allowed to smoke. That's no different from anyone else.

Perhaps standing on the corner playing will be banned from smoking soon, as a traffic hazard

The way this government is going about trying to control our every movement, that wouldn't surprise me at all :-(

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: The Barden of England
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 07:31 AM

You missed my point much earlier on Fisheye. Seeing as 70% of the population are non-smokers why do the minority feel it's their right to impose on the majority. As a non-smoker I do not 'force' you to breathe anything other than fresh air if I'm in your company, so why do you feel that you have the right to force me to breathe second hand smoke if I'm in yours?
George Papavgeris put it that if people were considerate enough they would not smoke in enclosed areas, and I agree with him. However the minority still seem to think it's their right to do so, and for that reason the politician's hands were forced into legislation. It's a big whip I agree, but without the minority being a tad blinkered it would not have had to be so.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 07:21 AM

"but as a smoker i am now refused"

No, you're not! Unless the cigarette is surgically attached!

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: fair maiden of nottingham
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 06:47 AM

hi all, you seemed to have missed my point...if a pub/folk club or wherever chooses to smoke.....it is your freedom as none-smoker not to enter.
but as a smoker i am now refused. Perhaps standing on the corner playing will be banned from smoking soon, as a traffic hazard

fisheye

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 05:17 AM

Yes, terrier, it's a vicious circle. No local pub means people have to travel to another town or village to get to a pub. That means using public transport to avoid drink-driving. And especially in rural areas, there's no public transport in the evenings, apart from the expensive option of cabs. It's no wonder many people have decided to drink at home instead.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 05:15 AM

Yes, one reason that pubs are closing, especially in rural areas, but some in towns as well, is that most pubs are now owned by large chains (not just breweries, but 'pubcos' that just operate pub chains). These businesses will close a profitable pub just becasue it doesn't meet their demanding profit targets, e.g. they might set a target of (say) 25% and if the pub only makes (say) 15% profit, that's enough reason for them to close it.

The fact that the pub is at the heart of a village community doesn't matter to them - it's only the bottom line that matters to them.

McGrath asked: Do local objections carry any legal weight? I mean, does it actually require planning permission for the owners to close a pub and use it as a house, or sell it as a house? I'm thinking of a couple of pubs I know where that's happened, and I don't seem to remember any planning permission notices stuck up outside, nor any adverts in the local paper inviting people to say if they had objections to the change.

I think there are certain rules about change of use, etc., that come into play, but basically if the owners want to close a pub there are ways round it (make it difficult for the tenant to make a profit, make the pub unattractive to customers, decline it trade, no longer a viable business).

But there have been successful campaigns where the villagers have banded together and organised protests against the closure of their only pub, resulting in the village pub being taken over by the villagers. I know one pub in my area that was saved in this way (the villagers invested in the pub, employed a manager, and it's now very successful and regularly won CAMRA awards, etc.)

I believe CAMRA can provide advice on how to campaign against a local pub's closure, if anyone finds themselves in the unfortunate position of being about to lose their only local pub.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: terrier
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 07:09 PM

Exactly Jaqui.C. The small pubs are not proffitable enough. The large breweries are interested in money, the more people you can pack into a pub, the more money they will spend, the small country pub is there to serve the community, not to make lots of dosh.
As for drink driving killing the village pub, if there were more 'local pubs' there would be fewer drunken drivers on the road. It's the breweries who have killed the country pub.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 06:17 PM

My son was once a tenant in the last pub in the village. He soon realised that the intention of the brewery seemed to be to make sure that the pub did not flourish, even with all the effort Andy was putting into it. They just made life very difficult and very expensive for him.

He exlpained to me that, if there is only one pub left in the village, the brewery have to prove that it is not a viable going concern before they are allowed to sell it off. They managed that with Andy's pub by charging him high prices for the beer they supplied which meant that he couldn't compete with the local cricket club or the pubs in the nearest town, about three miles away. He just had no way to be competitive, although the locals praised the way he looked after the cellar. When he left the pub closed and, I believe, the building was demolished.

At his next pub he was the only publican in town who got a cask marque from CAMRA, so he couldn't have been doing too badly!

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 03:41 PM

That's a demand too far from Giok. The kind of thing I meant when I said some posts could almost drive me to smoke.

If the smokers outside getting up his nose, what's to stop him holding his breath for a couple of seconds till he's inside?

So long as I can have a drink or take in some music in a pub without it being all smoked up, that'll quite good enough for me.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 01:32 PM

Well it's not as if Ireland was under pubbed was it?

I think smoking should be banned in all public places, and the smokers should not be allowed to hang around the entrance to the premises, creating a gauntlet of carcinogenic smells and odours for non smokers to run through!

If smokers knew how disgusting they smell to those who don't partake, they'd give up immediately.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 01:19 PM

As for Shaneo's comment - "morning after" tests aren't any problem unless someone has really got totally rat-arsed. In which place they aren't in any state to drive in the morning, in any case, and Thank God for anything that will keep them off the roads.

Mind you, the way technology is coming along, what with Satellite Navigation systems and all, it won't be that many years before technology will have moved on. We'll be able to go out and drink all we like and then be driven home by our friendly robot chauffeur - who'll probably give us a good talking to on the way about how we should cut down on our drinking for health reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 01:10 PM

There may be local objections to the owner closing it down and just selling it

Do local objections carry any legal weight? I mean, does it actually require planning permission for the owners to close a pub and use it as a house, or sell it as a house? I'm thinking of a couple of pubs I know where that's happened, and I don't seem to remember any planning permission notices stuck up outside, nor any adverts in the local paper inviting people to say if they had objections to the change.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Shaneo
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 12:46 PM

I'm just updating my previous figures for the amount of pub closures in Ireland since the smoke ban of 2003.
The latest figures from the vintners fed. is 800 pubs closed with an average of one a day now going out of business.
It's not all down to the smoke ban , the fear of being breathalised the morning after while going to work has had a Hugh impact.
We have being told for years not to drink and drive and eventually for the most part the message got through and we left the car at home , got a taxi or whatever , so even when we done the right thing they came back and hit us with the morning after breath test.

Fu****g dictatorship , what's a man to do after working all week.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 11:13 AM

Surely drink driving has killed the village pub, unless you live in the village and can walk to it.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 10:25 AM

McGrath is right when he says there are other reasons why pubs have been closing in the UK over the past few years. Many villages no longer have a pub at all - I'd hate to live in such a village myself, but it seems many people don't mind. A village without a pub is a village without a heart, IMO.

A struggling village pub sold as a going concern is often worth a lot less than it would be if simply sold as a house. There may be local objections to the owner closing it down and just selling it, so the owner's strategy usually involves keeping it going for a while, deliberately running it down and making it unwelcoming to customers, so the profits dwindle until they can legitimately say the business is not viable. Then they can just close it and convert it into a private dwelling. This has been happening all over the country. Pubs are being lost every week (I forget the figure but I think it's something like 6 pubs lost every week on average). At this rate there won't be any left except in large villages or towns.

Personally I'd hate to live in the house that had recently been the village's only pub, but some people obviously have no such qualms.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST,Princess Laura
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 07:10 AM

I am a non smoker. i think thatthe smoking ban is a good idea because its discusting. i also think that terrier is talkings hite. its better with open plans so people are less remote from each other and it helps combat things such as rascisum because everyone is together therefore needs to get along to not get thrown out

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: terrier
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 10:28 AM

Villan, it's difficult to express ones feelings about a subject in just a few words but I,ve just re-read my posting and still feel that it was fair comment. Sour grapes? Which bit do you not agree with?

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 05:07 AM

Disagree with you Terrier. Sounds like old grapes from where I am sitting.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 04:21 AM

Shaneo,
Don't know what part of Ireland you are from.
In Clare the ban has had NO effect whatever in numbers.
Recently In Dublin (midweek) we had a problem getting served in crowded pubs. The same with Galway, Limerick, Roscommon and Cork.
Where are these empty pubs - it would be nice to get some comfort somewhere. The pubs that have closed have lost custom because of the clampdown on drink/driving (official - Irish Times).
Smokers out in all weathers - my heart bleeds for you (but my lungs don't).
Last time we were in the UK the overall impression was that is smelt like an old ashtray. I would guess that once the ban comes in there will be the initial whine from the smokers and they will get on with their (somewhat lengthened) lives and allow us to get on with ours, in much increased comfort.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: terrier
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 08:20 PM

Sorry if I'm going over old ground but I havn't had a chance to read the full thread yet.
When I was a lad, pubs had smoke rooms and snugs, bars and parlours. Each room had it's own function, each room had it's own community. Now we have open plan booze outlets that serve no other purpose than to encourage people to drink as much as possible. To ban smoking in pubs can only be seen as a way to encourage more people (presumably non smokers) to partake of the alchohol, thereby creating more revenue for the breweries. We know smoking probably causes respitory and heart problems but excessive consumption of alchohol is a much greater cause for concern. At least smokers only kill themselves ( unless one wants to discuss the dangers of passive smoking). Excessive alchohol consumption, on the other hand, has a far greater impact on the people who come into contact with the inebriate. I'm a non smoker but I have no problem with people who go into pubs and smoke, unless I am eating a meal, then it does become a problem but if pubs have a license to serve meals, then they should be bound to have an area that is smoke free, i.e. a separate room.
I agree, smoking should be controlled in public areas but the simplistic way this government is going about it is just yet another ill conceived attempt at controlling an already out of control culture.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 06:59 PM

Pubs are closing all over England too, and have been for years, and that's without there having been any ban.

Partly it's that people are increasingly reluctant to risk driving when they've been drinking, and anyway the booze from the supermarket is so much cheaper than going to the pub. But mostly, I reckon it's because, what with house price inflation, it's more profitable to shut down the pub and cash in on the real estate value of the property.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Shaneo
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 01:27 PM

Look at what has happened to the pubs in Ireland since the smoking ban.

[1] They said all the non smokers who were complaining would be back they did not come back.

[2] 600 pubs have closed since the ban , three that I know of will be gone this year ,names 'The Swiss Cottage Santry Dublin , The Dollymount House Dublin ,[cant remember the other] all of these pub sites will be turned into flats [apartments]

[3] The pubs are almost empty except for Saturday nights

[4] If a pub has not provided a smoking area for the punters we are out in all weathers.

[5] When you decide to go to a gig , you have to stay until it's over to have a smoke , I went to see Christy Moore last Friday and the venue [Vicar Street] was in darkness , thats the way Christy likes it , but trying to get out for a smoke was a nightmare.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 12:54 PM

Totally agree, melodeonboy. I don't enjoy most pub gigs at present because of the smoke (maybe we get gigs in the wrong pubs, but they nearly always seem smokier than the ones I tend to go drinking in myself).

I believe I'll start looking forward to the pub gigs a lot more as from July :-)

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 05:23 AM

M-boy

"I won't have to have a shower when I get home from the pub to get the smell off me."

Your personal hygiene leaves something to be desired

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: melodeonboy
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 05:07 PM

I'm seriously thrilled by the ban and I can't wait for it to come in. And here are some of the reasons:


I won't get a sore throat ,runny nose or sore eyes any more.

My voice won't give out part way through a session/singaround or gig.

I won't have to have a shower when I get home from the pub to get the smell off me.

I won't have to keep cleaning clothes that stink of chemicals (it even makes my melodeon smelly!).

After a session or a gig I won't spend most of the next day coughing my guts up.

Many friends, colleagues and family members who either don't come to my gigs at all or who have to leave after a short while due to discomfort caused by smoking will now be able to come for the whole evening and enjoy it.

There's a likelihood that I'll live longer!


That's not an extensive list but I think I've made my point!

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: DougR
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 04:04 PM

Nobody said it was easy, Scrump. I quit for seven years one time and started again because of the very reasons you stated. I traveled a lot in those days and I'd be out at night in pubs or nightclubs and somebody would offer me a cigarette. One night I took one. Big mistake. I smoked for about seven more years before one St. Patrick's day here in Phoenix, 1976. On that day I tried to smoke every cigarette in Phoenix and drink all the Vodka as well. The following day I delayed taking that first morning cigarette. I am still delaying it. I have no temptation to ever smoke again, and believe me, no amount of cajoling by another smoker would ever convince me to start again. My 46 year old son smokes and the greatest gift he could give me (and himself) woould be for him to quit.


DougR
P.S. I gave up the Vodka four years ago and now drink only a couple of glasses of Red wine at night.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: vectis
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 03:50 PM

As an ex-smoker I can't wait for the ban to kick in. I can't believe how selfish I was when I was a smoker making everyone else suffer my fallout but as a smoker you don't generally notice the discomfort of smoky rooms.
Sessions in Ireland are now a joy and soon it will be as pleasurable over here. Roll on July.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 08:56 AM

Scrump - I totally agree with you. My ex and I decided to give up shortly before Christmas so sat down and worked out how to do it. We were going to his ex's house for Boxing Day and we knew that they were smokers. We chose December 27 as the day we would start stopping (?) and got the chewing gum that we had decided would give us the best chance of succeeding.

I smoked my last cigarette on Jan 1 1983. We had a few days off work to avoid being where other smokers were, just to avoid the temptation. For me, the withdrawal symptoms of those first few days were a powerful incentive not to start again. It was definitely worth the discomfort of that time for the benefits afterward.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 08:41 AM

One of the rules that should be followed when one decides to quit smoking is NEVER tell another living soul that you are quitting (until you are sure you have quit).


That's all very well, but if you are with friends who smoke, they will tend to notice that you aren't smoking and ask "Are you trying to give up?".

Or maybe you shouldn't socialise with your friends who smoke during the time when you are giving up?

It is more difficult to give up if friends offer you cigarettes, especially if you've had a drink or two and your willpower tends to evaporate.

Like McGrath, some people can give up easily, whereas others apparently struggle. My old uncle had smoked all his life - and he used to smoke strong untipped cigarettes - but after one budget had upped the price yet again he decided enough was enough. That must have been over 10 years ago when he was at least in his 50s or 60s, and he's never been tempted to smoke since.

I used to smoke as a youngster, and after giving up cigarettes I continued to smoke cigars occasionally (at Christmas, family celebrations, that sort of thing). What made me give it up was when my son was a baby - I thought I didn't want to give him any excuse to smoke when he got older, so I gave up even the cigars (I had the occasional craving over the next couple of years but I resisted it, and now I never get them at all). Of course, it didn't stop my son having the odd smoke when he got older (who hasn't?) but he's now grown up and a non-smoker. I hope us not smoking helped!

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 06:06 PM

Never say you're givingup smoking. Say you don't smoke.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST, ...
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 04:33 PM

As somebody once said, "Giving up smoking is easy - I've done it dozens of times."

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 04:11 PM

And don't tell people who smoke, as they love nothing better than trying to make you smoke again, becuase they are jealous that they can't give up. They will taunt you unmercifally until you give in and they have won.
They tried it with me, but I was too strong willed to give in.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: DougR
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 01:57 PM

GUEST: One of the rules that should be followed when one decides to quit smoking is NEVER tell another living soul that you are quitting (until you are sure you have quit).

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Stu
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 01:55 PM

I wish I hadn't of mentioned twats.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 01:46 PM

The fear of change or of failure is a massive hurdle

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 01:40 PM

The thing is, for some people giving up smoking is easy as pie, for others it's incredibly difficult. I had no problem, after smoking for 20 years or so, and nor did my father in law after a lot longer than that, but we were lucky. Just gave it up like that - it wasn't a question of willpower - for some reason the addiction just hadn't kicked in.

I suspect that's a lot more common than people realise, and that many people are frightened of having a big struggle giving it up and don't try, when in fact it might even be easy enough in their case.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: DougR
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 01:39 PM

Sometime in May, 2007, Pubs in our city will hang up the old "No Smoking" signs. As a "use to be" smoker of many years, I can hardly wait. Ireland has banned smoking in Pubs for quite some time (not sure how long) but visiting Pubs there is so much more pleasurable now than it was before smoking was banned. I asked a Publican in Clifden, County Connemara, how his business was affected by the ban and he said that it hadn't. Even he was glad that there was no more smoking in Pubs there. That's only one opinion, to be sure, but I thought it was interesting.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 01:02 PM

Strollin' Johnny obviously hasn't heard of reverse psychology or for that matter manners. There is always two ways to say something one is to the point but polite the other.... well SJ demonstrates it perfectly. Perhaps his last statement is very apt.

I actually agree with his point of view just not with the way he expresses it. You can't insult people and expect them to agree with your point of view.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 12:14 PM

Only if you inflict it on others in public places, FP. I really don't care what you do in private, it's your own business.

McG - I don't believe that my firm expressions of what I feel strongly about has the effect you're suggesting. If anyone contemplating giving up smoking is persuaded to keep on smoking just because I told them straight what a pain it is to others, then they truly are fools, and antisocial fools at that.

Now this bastard twat's outta here.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 12:11 PM

I smoke, but I didn't realise what an evil bastard I must be, until I read this thread.

Well, now you know! :-)

Just kidding - smokers are not evil, just sometimes selfish, perhaps without realising it.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 11:37 AM

I smoke, but I didn't realise what an evil bastard I must be, until I read this thread.