BS: Hillary is in the race for President

Subject: BS: Hilary is in the race for President
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 12:58 PM

Here is an article.

History!

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary is in the race for President
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 01:02 PM

Oops... I meant, "History?"

And, Hillary has two ls.

I think my brain is as frozen as my fingers.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary is in the race for President
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 01:43 PM

Should she actually become the Democratic party candidate it will ensure a Republican victory. Love her or hate her or something in between- she is simply unelectable.

Here's hoping she & the Democratic National Committee understand this.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 01:54 PM

I dunno...there are so many who would NOT vote Republican next time...and so many that say they would NOT vote for a woman (especially this woman)...and so many who say they would NOT vote for anyone with African_American heritage...and so many who would NOT vote for anyone who agrees with Bush's military policy..(McCain)...and so many who would NOT vote for Rudy Guiliani, and they ALL say they would not vote for Kucinich.

I don't think predictions at this stage of things are very useful. Maybe they WILL draft Gore at the last minute!

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary is in the race for President
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:06 PM

We could all use a Will Rogers about now.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary is in the race for President
From: GUEST,kdumumorjj
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:08 PM

Bush was unelectable. The butt of all late-night comedians' jokes. Gore was riding a crest of popularity. Double-digit lead that fell to simple 51% of the vote, and Bush was installed in a coup d' etat. It's gonna happen again with Hillary. Like it or not, we now have a royal family in America. The Bushes have achieved that distinction by being utterly ruthless in solidifying their place as America's number one drug family. All cartels lead to them. So they have the backing of the bankers. Money is money, whether it's generated by drugs or churchwork. And the Bushes' #1 crime lieutenant was Bill Clinton. He protected the CIA's drug drop point at the airstrip in Mena, Arkansa for years. For that service, he was hand-picked by Bush #1 to serve as the seat warmer until the next Bush was ready for office. Now we'll have Hillary's fat ass warming the seat. America's going to be presented with a simple Democratic choice a woman or a black man. lol. Hillary will be the long shot (hey, now there's an idea), but she'll "defy all trends" on election night and if need be, a court will install her in another fake rasslin' match where everyone gets good and heated up about "their candidate." And then once Hillary is in, Oprah is going to be our Secretary of State (this part is conjecture). But they're grooming Oprah for something...she's way too visible doing "good works" lately, and they're troweling on the makeup by the bucketload, so Hillary will say the Sec of State job is now a job for "a woman of color" because Condi Rice crapped on it, and Oprah will be appointed (but I don't know whether she'll be orange or purple at the hearings...kind of like Michael Jackson in the coloring dept). Hillary. Then what? The NEXT generation of Bushes and Clintons? Oh man...Chelsea. Heaven help us.

Odd fact. The 4 BATF agents who died in the siege at Waco, TX, were all ex bodyguards of Bill Clinton. They were the only 4 agents to die, and all of them were killed with bullets behind the left ear (execution style). They would have known about Clinton's dealings at Mena.

"16) Steve Willis, Robert Williams, Todd McKeahan and Conway LeBleu were the only four BAFT men killed at Waco.In an autopsy performed by a "private Doctor" all four were found to have near identical "execution style" head wounds. All four had previously been bodyguards for Clinton prior to their deaths in April 1993...."

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=14

3) Kevin Ives and Don Henry: two 16 year old boys who may have stumbled across drug running operations involving Clinton at Mena airfield in Arkansas in 1987.Initial reports, by State Medical Examiner Fahmy Malak, suggested that the boys had fallen asleep on the railway line and been crushed. However when the parents kicked up a fuss another forensic report showed Kevin's skull had been crushed prior to being placed on the track whilst Don had been stabbed in the back.

11) Danny Casalaro, a journalist investigating Mena airstrip, the Arkansas coke trade and INSLAW. Had warned his family that he had learnt too much and not to believe it was suicide if he turned up dead. Shortly thereafter he was found in a bathtub in the Sheraton Hotel in Martinsburg, West Virginia. Both his wrists had been slashed, one ten times, all his research material was missing and has never been recovered

And I always thought the Windsor family were bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary is in the race for President
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:10 PM

My impression is that it's a not a question of "so many that say they would NOT vote for a woman" and "so many who say they would NOT vote for anyone with African American heritage" - but rather of them not actually saying it, but...

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:14 PM

(Just to be clear, I tend to vote Democratic, and I see several of the probable candidates that I could live with...who, IF they were elected, could do a decent job. I am NOT sure yet which I would absolutely prefer. The sad damn thing is that way too many people will vote for or against Hilary based on Bill, and vote for or against Obama based on bias, and vote for or against Joe Biden based on his hairline and speaking voice, and vote for or against John Edwards based on his looks and accent....etc...etc...

This 'electibility' crap is driving me crazy! So we are to COMPROMISE on someone with the fewest discernable interesting characteristics in ideas, mannerisms & looks? Sheesh!

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:17 PM

(yeah, McGrath...kinda like that. So much IS unsaid...but...)

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:20 PM

oh...and 'guest' with the obviously random key-pounded name, YOU are so far off base with your asinine theories that it does not merit a real response.

I would suggest that the rules against guests who do not use regular names be invoked.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:21 PM

It's herstory, gnudarlin'.:-)

And, while I don't know who I will vote for, yet, I AM EXCITED that she is running. I'd love to see her and Obama get in together!!

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:25 PM

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see that ticket..

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary is in the race for President
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:30 PM

It's far too early to make predictions. If forced to, I 'd have to say that the #1 question now regarding the 2008 election is the Iraq war. If, as is likely, the "surge" is not the panacea it's pictured--and in a year, virtually nothing has changed for the better in Iraq-- McCain is in deep trouble--since he has pushed for the "surge". At that point, the US will have to withdraw from Iraq--since the public will demand it. And McCain will have to explain his position to the general electorate--which will not buy it. If we are still in Iraq in anything close to the numbers we now have--in 2008---no Republican who supported the Iraq war will have a chance.


McCain is by far the strongest candidate--of the entire field--Republicans and Democrats. Except for the Iraq war--(the elephant in the room)--and his own health. The other 2 Republicans usually mentioned--Giuliani and Romney--don't come close in appeal to the broad electorate.

But if our involvement in Iraq has not changed by 2008--and the Iraqis themselves are no better off--McCain can kiss his chances goodbye.

So any Democrat would have an excellent chance--except Hillary--who has a huge amount of baggage. Better choice--John Edwards, for instance.

I would hope Obama would have a good chance--but look what happened to Harold Ford. A lot of people will lie to pollsters--and stay racist.

But a lot can still happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: GUEST,Barry, away
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:36 PM

Yes Kat, I'd love to see Hillary with Bracky as a running mate. I think so far what's in the offering Hillary by far is the better of the bunch it's a shame that there's no one who's outstanding though. I'm very concerned with the political backpedaling on the war though, I'd like a firm "we're out of there, now" stance.
Far out theories from Guests without a word of a better direction is useless.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:49 PM

The Iraq War is a "damned if you do/damned if you don't" thing for the USA and its politicians. Staying in Iraq is not what most Americans want. Leaving will result in massacres of Sunnis by Shi'ites, Shi'ites by Sunnis, Kurds by Sunnis, etc. There will be a redress of old grievances--those developed since the war began--and that redress will be bloody. So what politician will say "We are out right this minute" when for sure the blame for the killings will fall on s/he who supports pulling the pin?

I mentioned a few years back (as did a few other people) that eventually the UN would have to clean up the mess, and it looks like that will be the only 'graceful' way for the US to get back where it belongs--that is, in the US. IMO, the one hope the US has in this is to set a firm deadline and force the Iraqis to get their police services in order and working, while simultaneously getting troops from countries that are willing to assume peacekeeping duties into Iraq--peacekeepers with teeth and knowledge of the process. (IMO, the US and Britain should pay for the whole thing because it would not have been necessary without their invasion.)

And the countries who have looked at the invasion as a method of securing oil for the future will have to take a step back and begin to consider what they will do next.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 02:54 PM

Early days yet. It's going to be an interesting couple of years.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 03:33 PM

I like Hillary. I don't think she's unelectable. Besides, she's better looking than the other candidates.

          I would like to see some kind of pressure from a third party, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 03:44 PM

Yes, a Republican-leaning third party.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 04:08 PM

Gee whiz, Peace, are you trying to split the Republicans? Why, that's diabolical! And not nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 04:26 PM

Good idea there, Peace!


Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: mg
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 05:02 PM

O'Bama will be nominated and will win hands down. he should avoid any deals with Hillary..it would diminish and taint him. John Edwards is OK for VP..I would like to see a woman, but please not Nancy Pelosi. Maria Cantwell is OK. Hillary should not have a cabinet position. She can stay New York senator if she wants and if they want her. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 05:19 PM

"In a letter to U.S. Defence Secretary Robert Gates, the second-term Democratic senator urged the immediate deployment of two new infantry battalions -- roughly 2,000 soldiers -- to southern Afghanistan, where Canadian forces are preparing for a Taliban offensive in the spring."

About friggin' time.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 06:22 PM

Obama "will win hands down". That would be fine. But, as I said, look what happened to Harold Ford. And that was a border state (Civil War). There's a lot of the South. And racists elsewhere also. Most of whom, you can bet, lie to pollsters.   And when asked about it afterwards will always have a non-race-based flimsy excuse. And if Obama were to get the nomination, any speck of dirt will be seized upon----and magnified a million times. ( That's why it's great news that the drug business is already on the table--- there can be no surprise there.)

So the time to look for dirt is right now--when Obama is considered the second coming of JFK. So there will be no chance for a Swift Boaters for Character Assassination-style approach later.

Then, if he makes it through that inquisition, it will be time to psychoanalyze the white US public--will they, including in the South, pull the lever for a black man for president?


And even if every Mudcatter says yes, that is by no means a cross-section of US society.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 06:50 PM

Ya'll realize that if they do any significant withdrawal from Iraq....say by Summer 08, the Republican will claim credit for it, and someone like McCain may get a boost.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: mg
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 07:10 PM

Yes they will for O'Bama...as they and I would not vote for some who sort of ran in the past...not presidential material in my eyes. Too confontrational etc. (by which I mean Al Sharpton and some screaming woman) Although I wrote in Colin Powell. And might have to write in Condi Rice if Hillary runs. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 08:12 PM

Condi Rice, huh? Oh, wonderful...now there's a protest vote that will sway the masses...

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Alba
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 08:27 PM

ROFL Bill and so true:)

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Cruiser
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 08:30 PM

John Edwards is the only Democrat I could vote for out of the announced candidates. I would guess that some other registered Republicans, who also voted for Kerry last time, might consider the same vote.

Mr. Edwards is a decent individual with a fine family and he has been outspoken against the Iraq war.

I would not want to see Bill Clinton associated with the White House in any way whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: GUEST,kdumumorjj
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 09:01 PM

John Edwards attended the most recent Bilderberg meeting in Ottawa (the group of people who control the world's politics, media, etc.), so he's probably going to be the nominee. Hillary Clinton was gone long enough from New York the weekend of the meeting to have attended, but no one is clear on whether she was there. There's a big gap in her schedule for that day. Future presidents always attend the Bilderberg meetings in the couple of years running up to their election. They have to meet the bosses. Bush #1 took Bill Clinton to the Bilderberg meeting in 1991, yet television convinced voters in the U.S. that the 2 men were bitter rivals. Bush picked his replacement:

http://www.nndb.com/people/427/000026349/

People don't make it into the White House unless they serve the interests of the Bilderberg group.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 09:34 PM

If Hillary is elected that will mean we can say we will have had a 24 year period where the president was named either Clinton or Bush.

Who say we do not have a hereditary aristocracy!

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 09:56 PM

What's this Bilderberg thing? Is that something Sandy Berger was hiding in his socks?

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 10:19 PM

GUEST,kdumumorjj's calumny of a conspiracy theory, accusing Clinton of crimes including the murder of children, should be struck, but not because of the choice of a user name.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 10:26 PM

No, it's the folks who try harder to Build-a-better-burger...it ain't Burger King!**bg**

(It's one of those conspiracy-paranoia things floating around out there.)

Obama is mixed. His mother was white, his father was Kenyan.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 11:38 PM

That's out GUEST. Never met a conspiracy theory that he didn't like. And believe.

Sad, really. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 04:50 AM

Hilary Clinton will never be president of the United States of America!
Remember, you heard it here first.
G

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 08:19 AM

Well thats a bit of a Blow if she gets the Job, said Bill

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: GUEST,jimlad
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 08:19 AM

I am English and can trace my family back to August 29th 1401. I would urge our American Friends to avoid hereditary rule like the plague. Look at us,a German ruling gang for around 300 years.During which we have lost a great Empire, several great colonies, America, Canada,
India and Australia and others.

Obviously I can have no say in the American electoral procedings but I could not imagine myself voting for Hillary,a woman with zero self respect ,who put up with Blowjob Billy and his antics for years.

A cynic might think she put up with him because she had one eye on the top job even then.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 08:43 AM

Pie in the sky is fun to dream about. A woman president and or a black one is also a step in the right direction, but, the reality is NO woman will be president, and no black will be president in our lifetime.
Too many racists and sexists vote. I don't care who you are or what great ideas you have, if you can't get elected you are nowhere.
The problem with politicians is, they fall in love with the sound of their own voices. That's what former Senator/Secretary of State Ed Muskie said to former Senator, George Mitchell.

Mr. Ford in Tennessee may be the greatest candidate in that state's history, but he can not get elected in the state that invented the Ku Klux Klan.

I will support any democrat that gets the nomination, but I just hope it's Joe Biden.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 08:56 AM

The problem with Barack Obama is, he's already shown his hand by giving a speech in which he encouraged Democrats to go after the "Born-Again-Evangelical" vote. It he got elected that "faith based" stuff would just go on and on, and the real problems of society would never be addressed.

             I'd much rather have Hillary than Obama.


             I'm waiting to see if the Green Party can recruit Al Gore.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 09:41 AM

The Green party is a good example of what I said. Third party candidates have never come close to being elected; not even Teddy Roosevelt and his Bull Moose party.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 10:04 AM

I don't know, Lincoln got elected as the first Republican, and I don't recall who the first presidential Whig was, but there were no Whigs in the first few elections.
               If FDR had run as a Socialist, he might have gotten elected, in lieu of just having the Democratic Party co-opt all of the Socialist Party's programs.
               Ross Perot made a pretty good run at it, and would have done a lot better if he'd really been serious, and had a little more political savy.

               Besides, third party candidates make the races a lot more entertaining.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 11:15 AM

Ringinslinger--

So sorry you don't like the "faith-based" stuff. The fact is the Democratic presidents recently have been both from the South and with pretty strong connections to religion.

The Democrats cannot afford to just write off the South before they even start.

And neither Carter nor Clinton (nor LBJ) tried to ram their religion down your throat--in fact believed strongly in separation of church and state. Demonization of religion and the religious is a fun sport on Mudcat----but not a wonderful political strategy.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 11:22 AM

It will be interesting to see if the Republican National Committee (or their "friends") can resist the temptation to "demonize" Democratic candidates, a tactic which proved quite effective in previous campaigns. However, if they try it again they may run the risk of getting tarred by their own brush.

I'd like to see Hillary judged on her merits, along with all the other candidates. I'd also like some apple pie fresh from the oven and home-made ice cream with that wish!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 11:32 AM

The "faith based" stuff, Ron Davies, is nothing short of missappropriation of public funds. The Bush Administration is happily giving money to those organizations who support him politically, and withholding it from those who do not. The money would be better spent if it stayed in public hands, and was doled out base on real needs.

             As far as Carter and Clinton, I liked both of them, and you're right, Jimmy Carter went to extremes to keep his personal beliefs out of public policy. Johnson, on the other hand, was too much of a product of southern politics to play a straight game, it always seemed to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 11:59 AM

Ringenslinger--



We're talking here about Democratic candidates. LBJ's faults had nothing to do with religion.

I agree right down the line that Bush has perverted religion. Have I defended him? How is Bush despicable? Let me count the ways.


I still say a strongly religious Southerner who believes in separation of church and state is the Democrats' best chance. And Edwards also has the right message--"2 Americas".

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 12:08 PM

I like Edwards too, but I'd be hard pressed to support Obama for the previously stated reasons.

          On the other hand, unless something weird happens, I don't have any problem with Hillary either.

          And now I understand Bill Richardson is in the race.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 12:58 PM

Well, to give you an idea of what the next two years will be like...Hilary had barely finished her announcement before the talking heads were analyzing her 'tone', her dress, her 'image' and her history as a young lawyer at Watergate.
...and above we read (from someone who CAN'T vote here).."I could not imagine myself voting for Hillary,a woman with zero self respect ,who put up with Blowjob Billy and his antics for years"
   I have read similar statements like this before, and I shake my head...YOU don't know "what she put up with" and what her personal quotient of "self-respect" is! A statement like that says more about YOUR own particular moral stand than whether Hilary is a sane, competent, intelligent person with the right attitude to lead a country. A LOT of people think she is, but there are others who are also, and I want to see the debate center on policy and platform, not on her attitude toward her husband, who did a stupid personal thing amidst a lot of intelligent, thoughtful public things.

Like Kendall, I'd like to see Joe Biden get serious consideration...the man KNOWS foreign policy....but he just doesn't 'look' right on camera to many and as soon as he gets any attention, someone will bring up his poor footnoting of the use of a quotation in one of his speeches. Although he DID give proper credit at other points, the quote will be Gerrymandered to look like he simply plagarized. I am TIRED of that sort of thing taking up the airtime in campaigns.

Hilary faces a LONG uphill struggle against those who would not vote for ANY woman, as well as anyone associated with Bill...I would not bet on her being able to overcome enough close-minded prejudice to win even the nomination.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Cruiser
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 01:12 PM

I just do not understand the amnesia regarding Ms. Clinton's actions during the Clinton scandals.

Why would any woman vote for Hillary, the enabler of Bill's sexual "problems", to hold such a high office?

Why would any person support someone for the most important political office in the world that initially vehemently said the Lewinsky Scandal and other " Clintongates" were a "vast right-wing conspiracy" and had been "orchestrated and coordinated for political gain".

A conspiracy theorist for president; is that what Democrats want?

I just do not understand…

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 01:16 PM

My biggest concern is that Hillary will be far too busy now for me to arrange that date with her that I have been trying to set up for the last ten years or so...

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 01:35 PM

It's too late to arrange a date with Hillary now, LH, the same people who were wasting their time following Monica Lewinsky around will now be wasting more time following Hillary, and, of course, she knows it.

       I don't understand Cruiser's attitude, though, Bill was just had normal drives like everyone else, so there was nothing for Hillary to enable.