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Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)

GUEST,joyner 14 Feb 07 - 09:42 PM
Peace 14 Feb 07 - 09:46 PM
GUEST,joyner 14 Feb 07 - 09:55 PM
Peace 14 Feb 07 - 09:56 PM
Peace 14 Feb 07 - 10:02 PM
GUEST,joyner 14 Feb 07 - 10:08 PM
Peace 14 Feb 07 - 10:11 PM
GUEST,joyner 14 Feb 07 - 10:13 PM
Peace 14 Feb 07 - 10:14 PM
Peace 14 Feb 07 - 10:17 PM
Peace 14 Feb 07 - 10:21 PM
GUEST,joyner 14 Feb 07 - 10:25 PM
Peace 14 Feb 07 - 10:33 PM
Peace 14 Feb 07 - 11:26 PM
Malcolm Douglas 15 Feb 07 - 01:33 AM
GUEST,Nick 17 Feb 07 - 05:10 PM
GUEST 26 Feb 07 - 07:48 PM
Bat Goddess 27 Feb 07 - 07:48 AM
GUEST 27 Feb 07 - 08:52 AM
JohnB 27 Feb 07 - 12:13 PM
pavane 27 Feb 07 - 12:49 PM
JohnB 27 Feb 07 - 09:41 PM
GUEST,Nick the Fifer 07 Mar 11 - 08:51 AM
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Subject: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: GUEST,joyner
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 09:42 PM

Can anyone help me with the chords to this tune? I know the maddy prior tim hart version but i figure any chords will be good. thanks.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 09:46 PM

What chords do you have at present?


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: GUEST,joyner
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 09:55 PM

none. i'm a bit of anovice. i just wanted a point in the right direction really...


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 09:56 PM

OK, thanks. Be right back.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:02 PM

It's on Mudcat


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: GUEST,joyner
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:08 PM

aar; thank's peace. I had seen the lyrics but not that. I should be able to work out the chords to play with that. i hope so anyway. Thanks very much.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:11 PM

It's the closest I could find to chords. They seem not to be on the www. However, keep the thread alive and I am sure someone will be along to post chords..

I saw one site that had some chords to a variant of the song. I'll see if I can relocate it.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: GUEST,joyner
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:13 PM

thanks man. that'd be handy as well. Very grateful indeed!


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:14 PM

It is in mixolydian mode.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:17 PM

"Martine said to his man,
or, Whose the fool now.
to its own tune
a tavern song

Martine said to his man,
fy man, fy,
O Martine said to his man,
whose the fool now.
Martine said to his man
fill thou the cup and I the can
thou hast well drunken man
who's the fool now.

I saw a Sheep shearing Corne,
fy man, fy,
I saw a Sheep shearing Corne,
whose the fool now?
I saw a Sheep shearing Corne,
and a cockold blow his horne,
Thou hast well drunken man,
who's the fool now.

[note: now that you know the structure, I will dispense with that portion of the song. DV]

I saw a Man in the Moon,
clouting Sainct Peters shoon.

I saw a Hare chase a Hound,
twenty myles above the ground,

I saw a Goose ring a Hog,
and a Snale to bite a Dog,

I saw a Mouse catch a Cat,
and the Cheese to eat the Rat.

verse 2, corne is the generic term for grain - not American maize.
verse 3 clouting is plugging a hole. Although not used so in this song, "clouting" often has certain other connotations. shoon plural of shoe. Nouns ending in vowel sounds were frequently pluralized by adding "n" rather than "s" in our period - both in London English and the Guid Scottis tongue.

This is an example of a period tavern song that normal people (like those who most of us in Clann Tartan portray) not professionals, would sing. Martin and his man both sing, alternating lines. Martin is the one whose brain is not functioning properly, and his man is condemning Martin's overindulgence.

The song was first published in England in 1588 but this version does not survive. Thomas Ravenscroft's Deuteromelia published in 1609, contains this piece as a four-part "freemen song". These were a most popular form of entertainment where three or more men sing the same words at the same time, but to different notes, thus forming vocal chords with their (ahem) vocal chords. (Sorry. Couldn't resist.) Freemen songs were popular throughout the British Isles from the time of Henry VIII right through the eighteenth century. "Glee clubs," which were social groups who performed freemen songs, as well as related period song forms such as catches (different words to different melodies at the same time) and rounds (same words, same tunes, but at different times), were even popular in America until a generation or two ago.

The version above is based on John Forbes' version from his Cantus, Songs, and Fancies published in Edinburgh in 1662. The last verse is unique to the English version. I originally believed that the second verse (the one about the sheep) was to be found only in the Scottish version - which would be amusing - but I then discovered that the otherwise useful edition I was working from had been silently Bowlderized. This illustrates the perils of using modern editions of period texts."

from http://www.clanntartan.org/articles/music.html


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:21 PM

My apologies. I didn't see the chords where I though I did. This old age stuff just ain't what it's cracked up to be.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: GUEST,joyner
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:25 PM

that has some interesting verses. The cuckold blowing his own horn's an interesting line. never heard that before. Thanks very much peace. I will be giving this song a play tomorrow when i wake up. tis half three in the morning here and i should be off to bed. Good night and thanks again.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:33 PM

Good night back to you. I keep looking, but I'm sure some UKers will have the chords for this song.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 11:26 PM

Something to try from your local library:

"JSTOR: John Forbes's "Songs and Fancies"Martine said to his man. Key G ma. 3-4. d d r /m m r In Deuteromelia: or Second Part of Mu- sicke's Melodie, or Melodious Musick of Pleasant Roundelaies. ...
links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0027-4631(193610)22%3A4%3C402%3AJF%22AF%3E2.0.CO%3B2-E - Similar pages"

Google

JSTOR: John Forbes's "Songs and Fancies"


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 01:33 AM

There is no need to post words for the song; that has already been done in several earlier discussions; neither has the 'clanntartan' chap anything more useful to say than has already been said here. There are also links to be found, should you care to use the search engine, to Ravenscroft's notation.

Of course he didn't provide "chords" for the spanish guitar. It's a simple tune, though, and I expect that 'Peace' could come up with some perfectly good ones based on the printed music in no time.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 05:10 PM

I play it on the banjo just picking it so chord changes aren't really necessary. If you play it in an open major tuning the bass notes will sound right. On guitar I use open d but on banjo (5 string) 'tis open g. Hope that helps.

Nick


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:48 PM

This from Jon Raven's "Turpin Hero" song book:

"This song has been descibed as 'a satire upon those who tell wonderful stories' and as a satire referring to the dissolution of the monasteries by Henry VIII. On the other hand it may well be a straightforward humorous piece about a drunken man and his servant. No matter how you interpret the song it will not alter the fact that it has a terrific tune, and an easy to sing chrorus.

As you sing it, bear in mind that it was first found in print in the late 16th century - nearly four hundred years ago - and was probably passed from singer to singer by word of mouth for a good few years before this date."

MARTIN SAID TO HIS MAN

1.(G)Mar-tin (C6)said (G)to his (C6)man (G)Fie (D)man (G)Fie
(D)Mar-tin (G)said (Am)to his (Em)man (A) "Who's the fool (D)now?"
(G)Mar-tin said (C)to his (D)man
(G)"Fill thou the cup and(D)I the can
(C)Thou hast well (drunken, man (D)who's the fool (G)now?"

2.I saw the man in the moon, Fie man Fie
Isaw the man in the moon, who's the fool now?
I saw the man in the moon
clouting on St. Peter's shoon
Thou hast well drunken man, who's the fool now?

3.I saw a goose ring a hog...
....and a snail bite a hog...

4.I saw a mouse chase a cat...
... and the cheese eat rat...

5.I saw a hare chase a hound...
... forty miles above the ground...

6.I saw a maid milk a bull...
... ev'ry stroke a bucket full...


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His M
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 07:48 AM

I got the sheep shearing/cuckold verse from Geoff Thompson from Sheffield one night in 1999 when he was at The Press Room on this side of the pond. (Along with a more recent verse about British Rail.)

I've always done this a cappella and I've never heard it accompanied. Like most a capella songs, I think accompaniment would distract the singer and detract from the song.

My tuppence...

Linn


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His M
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 08:52 AM

I agree...this song sounds best when sung a cappella (or even unaccompanied) with a group of good chorus singers to give it wonderful harmony!


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: JohnB
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:13 PM

Always a cappella, way back to the first time I heard it done, by the Dransfields, way way back in time (well my time anyhow).
JohnB


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: pavane
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:49 PM

I'm sure the goose SHOULD be ringing a HAWK, but still...I suppose someone wrote it down wrong centuries ago.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: JohnB
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 09:41 PM

Well as far as I know, they ring a gooses neck to stuff as much food down as possible to make pate de foie gras. They also ring a hogs nose to stop them from digging. I am therefore with the original words being correct.
JohnB


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Who's the Fool Now (Martin To His Man)
From: GUEST,Nick the Fifer
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 08:51 AM

How to revive an old thread?

The version of sheep/cuckold I usually use is "I saw the cuckold *wear* his horn - since in medieval & 17th C, horns were symbolic of cuckoldry. (Cf Madcaps of England).

In the usual pub sessions etc, I frequently play the melody on a renaissance fife - in a (usually vain) attempt to get everyone singing the same tune - or any tune at all!


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