Origin: Train is a-comin'

Subject: Train is a-comin'
From: black walnut
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 01:33 PM

It's spoken of in many sources as a children's song (no wonder; it's got everything a good children's song should have), but was that its original intent? Is it a children's song about real trains, or is it a children's Sunday School song, or a grownups' gospel song, or is it referring to the underground railroad? Or all of the above?

Train is a-comin', Oh ya
Train is a-comin', Oh ya
Train is a-comin', train is a-comin'
Train is a-comin', Oh ya

~b.w.

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: boobijo
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 04:48 PM

I've only recently heard this song. Although I don't know it's origin, it's my impression that it's only a children's song because it's been robbed of it's original meaning. I think it's a negro spiritual, not an underground railroad song. In fact, there are no extant underground railroad songs. "Follow the Drinking Gourd" is the product of Lee Hays of the Weavers. In all probability, it only goes back to the 1940s.

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 05:19 PM

Train is a-comin'!
2nd verse- Better get yo' ticket, oh yes!
etc,
3rd verse- Oh there's room for many a more. Oh, Yes!
4th verse-
(Child's name) is the engineer. Oh, yes! (2x)
(Child's name) is the engineer (2x)
(Child's name) is the engineer. Oh, Yes!

Continue until every child has a job on the train, as the train is chugging around the room.
brakeman, fireman, conductor, porter, ticket puncher, etc. etc.

Many of these children's songs, because of the simple structure, resemble gospel, or work songs.

For example-
Well, that gospel train is a-comin', Comin' right down that track, etc.
and Git on board, little chillun, there's room for many a mo'.
and probably others.

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: black walnut
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 04:38 PM

Really? It just 'resembles' but not 'is'? Interesting.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: Dead Horse
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 04:45 AM

Sea Shanty (Hilo, Me Ranzo Rae) has very similar structure and lyrics.

The bully boats a-comin', down the Mississippi rollin'
Ranzo, Ranzo, Hooray, Hooray.
The bully boats a-comin', down the mighty river bowlin',
Sing Hilo, Me Ranzo Rae.

Then it goes on to name as many ports and unlikely (funny) cargoes that she may be carrying.

Oh, we're off ta Bonus Aries with a buch of green canaries.
Ranzo, Ranzo, Hooray, Hooray.
Then we're sailin' to Giberalta, and our cargas bricks an' mortar.
Sing Hilo, Me Ranzo Rae.
Ad Infinitum

Interesting too, huh?

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: Alba
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 08:51 AM

I saw this Thread title and instantly thought of a Curtis mayfield Song:

People get ready

People get ready
There's a train a comin'
You don't need no baggage you just get on board
All you need is faith
To hear the diesel comin'
Don't need no ticket you just thank the Lord

People get ready
Train to Jordan
Picking up passengers from coast to coast
Faith is key
Open the doors and board them
There's hope for all among the love the most

There ain't no room for the hopeless sinner
Who would hurt all mankind just to save his own soul
Have pity on those whose choices grow thinner
There ain't no hiding place from the Kingdom's throne

People get ready
There's a train a comin'
You don't need no baggage you just get on board
All you need is faith
To hear the diesel comin'
Don't need no ticket you just thank the Lord

There's a train there's a train there's a train comin' people
There's a train there's a train there's a train comin' people
There's a train there's a train there's a train comin' people
Just get on board

There ain't no room for the hopeless sinner
Who would hurt all mankind just to save his own soul
Have pity on those whose choices grow thinner
There ain't no hiding place from the Kingdom's throne

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 09:17 AM

Q wrote "Many of these children's songs, because of the simple structure, resemble gospel, or work songs."

black walnut wrote "Really? It just 'resembles' but not 'is'? Interesting."

My take on this subject is that spirituals can be used for religious purposes, or as work songs, or as recreational songs. In each case the purpose {function/use} of the song is different.

In another Mudcat thread I shared that I used the spiritual "Get On Board" {Little Children}" in recreational settings. Since I can't find that post, I'll share my experiences again.

I've used the spiritual "Get On Board" as a group activity for children ages 5-12 years. Specifically, the group sang the lyrics "get on board little children [3x}/ gotta be ready when He calls your name". We performed that song with the "train engineer" making 'choo choo train' motions and then randomly calling out the name of a member of the group. That child stands behind the engineer and follows his or her lead, moving around the room while making train motions. On the words "gotta be ready when He calls your name", that child calls out the name of another group member who then hurries to join the train. That patterns continues until every member of the group is part of the train.

Prior to teaching this song to the group, I explained the historical basis for the song. In doing so, these children learned something about American history. Btw, I shared this song with a number of African American children's groups between 1999-2005 in Pittsburgh, PA and its surrounding area. Prior to my sharing this song, no child in those groups knew it.

I've shared this song in the manner I described in groups where the members knew each other and in groups where the children did not know the names of every member of their group. In my opinion, the song can 'work' with both types of groups, although the group leader has to help the song along when members of the group don't know the other members' names. While it's true that individual members will tend to select the name of their friends, there are ways that the group facilitator can help this process along. For instance, directing the children to call out the name of someone they don't know. True, this slowed down the song. However, it furthered the goal of helping group members become acquainted with each other.

This interactive activity helped children learn the names of the other members of their group. It also helped to teach & reinforce such social/academic skills as following directions, working together as a group, being the leader of a group {since members could take turns being 'the engineer' {or whatever the correct name is for the 'train driver'}. Furthermore, using this spiritual as a recreational song helped the children reinforce their listening skills. It particularly helped them strengthen their ability to being alert and quickly "move when the spirit says move" {to allude to another African American spiritual}.

Besides all of that, it was fun!

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: Alba
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 09:26 AM

I thought I had posted something on this Thread but it seems I am invisible again, happens quite a lot I have noticed on "certain" threads..mmm.
Great though. With this amazing stroke of good fortune out I will go to cause havoc in the world around me with my invisibilty cloak of protection on..LOL

Best keep my eyes open for a 'Train a comin' in case the train don't see me !

Jude (who was never here!!)**BG**

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 09:48 AM

I meant to mention that "Move When The Spirit Says Move" is another spiritual that can be converted to recreational use.

Children can be asked to suggest other 'action words' in place of the religious verbs such as 'pray' and 'shout' that are standard for that song. Instead of those actions, children have suggested such action words as 'march', 'jump' and 'stomp'. Of course, 'sing' and 'clap' which could have been used in this song when it is performed for religious purposes, also can be used when this song has a non-religious purpose.

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 10:12 AM

Sorry. I don't mean to hijack this train. But it just occurred to me that some folks may not be familiar with the "Move When The Spirit Says Move" song.

When I was a child, I learned the first verse of that song as:

We're gonna move when the spirit says move
move when the spirit says move
When the spirit says move
we're gonna move, Lord
We're gonna move when the spirit says move.

-snip-

When I use this song for recreational purposes, I leave the "Lord"
word in that song. But I guess the word 'child' or 'yes' can be subsituted for "Lord" .

Btw, the children I worked with also didn't know that song, which is further indication that African American spirituals are rarely sung in African American churches nowadays-at least in my area. Or maybe only a few of the children in the groups I facilitated regularly attended church...I think that both of these statements are true.

Furthermore, most of the schools that these children attended did not include in-school vocal music classes. And even if they did, the music teachers probably would have been prohibited from teaching spirituals.

What a sad state of affairs...

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: GUEST,Mike B.
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 10:16 AM

"In fact, there are no extant underground railroad songs. 'Follow the Drinking Gourd' is the product of Lee Hays of the Weavers. In all probability, it only goes back to the 1940s."

If that's true, then the following excerpt from the liner notes to "Songs of the Civil War" on Columbia Records (where Richie Havens performs the song) must be inaccurate -

"Nearly forgotten in folklore is Old Peg Leg Joe, the white sailor who showed up as a laborer on many southern plantations. As Irwin Silber tells the tale in his aptly titled reference work, the essential Songs of the Civil War, Joe stayed long enough to teach slaves this riddle song about a drinking gourd in the night sky that would carry them to freedom. The song gave them directions on how to escape to the North: A trail was blazed along the riverside by the imprint of a left foot and a peg leg. All they had to do was follow the tracks to where 'the great big river (the Tennessee) meets the little river (the Ohio),' and there they'd find 'the old man is waiting to carry you to freedom.' More familiar is the folkloric explanation that the gourd was the Big Dipper constellation. Its handle pointed to the North Star, the direction runaway slaves were told to follow. When they got far enough they would be met by members of the secret Abolitionist movement known as the Underground Railroad, who would then guide them to 'safe houses' on the final journey to freedom.

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 11:23 AM

GUEST,Mike B., as that passage notes, this is a folkloric explanation.

There are rural myths as well as urban myths. From what I've read here, there, and a number of wheres, this story is a myth.

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 01:30 PM

Unfortunately, the myth of Pegleg is now found in some children's books, and kids grow up believing this and other so-called 'feel good' stories of escapes and the Underground Railroad. The real stories, and the people who lived them, remain buried in accounts preserved in American Memory and elsewhere.
Silber included fakelore as well as fact in his book, "Songs of the Civil War" (and the following recording).
Some of the songs were about the Civil War, but are of later
composition.
---------------------------------------------
Azizi, "Move When the Spirit Says Move" (Muddy Waters? MacDowell? earlier?) is a variant from an old spiritual, "I Gotta Move." I am going to post more to the thread You Gots to Move, 41044: You Gots to Move
Lots of variants worth noting.

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 01:36 PM

Q, thanks for letting me know about that thread.

I'll post the corrected first verse I learned on that thread.

It's "You gotta move when the spirit says move" and not "We're gonna move..."

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: KT
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 01:52 PM

Move When the Spirit Says Move....
I learned it many years ago (and subsequently taught it to many, many children through the years) as "Sing When the Spirit Says Sing."   The third line went "When the spirit says sing, ya gotta sing right along, " Then on additional verses, we'd substitue the word "sing" with whatever the kids could come up with. Laugh, cry, love, rock, shout (they loved that one), pray.

In my many years as a preschool teacher, music was a very important part of our daily routine, and the helper of the day got to choose the songs for that day. One little guy stumped me for a few minutes when he said he wanted to sing the song about the ghost. Took me a few minutes to figure out that he waas talking about that song. Between the word spirit and the minor key, he interpreted ghost.

Train is a Comin' was another very popular one with the littles.

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: black walnut
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 09:53 AM

KT - minor key? I only know that one (Move When the Spirit Says Move) as a major key song.
Azizi - when I was a little girl in Sunday School, we always did jumping and clapping too. We mixed it all up. The teachers knew, probably instictively, that kids need to move.

Train is a-comin': I just recorded it on a new children's CD I'm working on. I'm going to be wary of what I put in the liner notes about that song. I think that when you learn a song from someone else, who learned it from someone else, it's quite easy to soak up the stories of origin as though they are truth.

Then there's the whole question of What is Truth.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 12:37 PM

In an old film, I recall the witness being sworn, "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?" The witness answers with a quote from the classics, the essence of which is the question you pose, "What Is Truth?" The judge bangs his gavel and sentences the man to 30 days in jail.
No idea now what the film was about.

With very simple songs, it is easy to say that they are descended from something older, when 'in truth' there is no relationship. Or vice versa.

Subject: RE: Train is a-comin'
From: black walnut
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 09:23 AM

What surprises me sometimes is how quickly something can change. Someone recently asked permission to record one of my songs. It came to light that she had changed it to fit her needs (a yoga class) which was fine with me, so long as she used the word 'adapted' along with my name in the credits. By change, I mean thatit started out as quite a simple little song 16 bars long, but the way she taught it to her classes was by leaving out a chunk of the song - reducing it to half of that, and she changed a couple of the words as well. However, it was still recognizably mine.

As an early childhood music teacher for many years, I have often changed songs to fit my needs and wants. I tried to keep notes of what I'd done and what the original source was, but I'm sure that they were changed again as they went from my classroom into each child's home or playground. I think that's the natural evolution of folk music, and the stories we share of who started what song when and for what purpose is often evasive.

Which is not to say we shouldn't or wouldn't keep sharing the knowledge and stories and myths we know. That's what keeps the history so alive and interesting.

~b.w.