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BS: Worst President Ever???...
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Riginslinger Date: 02 Mar 07 - 02:40 PM Jimmy Carter could have done a lot more for America if the Ayattollah Khomeini hadn't gotten Ronald Reagan elected. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: pdq Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:09 AM You are correct, Chanteyranger, but I believe Ramesy Clark did advise Carter about the Middle East and other areas in foreign policy. Hell, Carter could not have screwed things up on three continents without a lot of help. Clark, Ramsey Clark, Ramsey, 1927–, attorney general of the United States (1967–69), b. Dallas, Tex.; son of Tom Campbell Clark. Admitted to the bar in 1951, Ramsey Clark practiced law in Dallas. After serving in the federal government as assistant attorney general in charge of the lands division (1961–65), deputy attorney general (1965–66), and acting attorney general (Oct., 1966–Feb., 1967), he was appointed by President Johnson to succeed Nicholas Katzenbach as attorney general. Clark proved to be a vigorous defender of civil liberties and civil rights; he opposed the use of government wiretaps and initiated the first Northern school desegregation case. After leaving the government, he taught law and later became active in the anti–Vietnam War movement, visiting North Vietnam in 1972. In 1974 he was the Democratic candidate for the U.S. Senate from New York but was defeated by Jacob Javits; he also failed in a second Senate run in 1976. Subsequently he practiced as a defense lawyer in New York and continued his political activism. He founded the International Action Center (associated with the Trotskyite Workers' World party), which, like Clark, has opposed various forms of "oppression" by the United States, including military actions, the death penalty, and globalization. Clark has defended or supported Philip Berrigan, Slobodan Miloseviç, Bosnian Serb leader and accused war criminal Radovan Karadzic, Rwandan clergyman and convicted genocide instigator Elizaphan Ntakirutimana, and Saddam Hussein (acting as a defense attorney at his trial in Iraq beginning in 2005). For an account of his career as Attorney General, see Justice by Richard Harris (1970). The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, 6th ed. Copyright © 2007, Columbia University Press. All rights reserved. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Peter Kasin Date: 02 Mar 07 - 02:58 AM It seemed like absolutely none of Carter's advisors had a grip on how to reverse the economic crisis. At least one of them had a good stand-up line, though (Kahn), when he called the oil sheiks "schnooks." I very much admire Carter's post-presidential work with Habitat For Humanity, though. He and Rosalyn are together a force in that organization. I don't think Ramsey Clark was connected with his presidency , was he? Clark was in the LBJ administration when he was atty general. pdq, I think you mean Cyrus Vance, no? Chanteyranger |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Riginslinger Date: 01 Mar 07 - 07:39 PM "Woe unto Israel now that Carter's book has entered the pantheon of propaganda." Jimmy Carter's latest book is an honest effort to find common ground in the Middle East. Professor Dershowitz and other self-centered Jews are just pissed off because he didn't waste a hundred pages recounting the time-worn events of the Holocaust. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Mar 07 - 07:25 PM Gosh, Bobert...how do I take on an argument as convincing as that??? (grin) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Bobert Date: 01 Mar 07 - 07:20 PM But LH, ain't we the good guys??? Heck, God is on our side, ain't He??? I mean, look at all these churches... God has to be on our side an' we need to show these other folks how good it can be to have God on yer side... Right??? I mean, if not then why would we invade and kill all these folks??? Answer me that one, can ya??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: John Hardly Date: 01 Mar 07 - 07:19 PM I actually kinda liked June Carter. I never bought any of her albums or anything, but I do have a Johnny Cash album or two around here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Mar 07 - 06:43 PM Your enemies, pdq, are yourselves. In that sense, you are exactly like the Romans, Napoleon, the Nazis, the Russian Czars, the Soviets, the Ottomans, the British, the Spanish, and a variety of other conquering empires who have strutted, swaggered, and slaughtered their way across the globe in succeeding ages, armoured in the belief that their way was "the best". Presently you will be replaced by another such conquering empire. Maybe China. But I won't be around to see that or to point it out to the loyalists such as you who defend the empire's actions. And neither will you. Unless we both reincarnate into that time period. If so, be prepared for further debate. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Bobert Date: 01 Mar 07 - 06:42 PM To all the Carter haters: How many Americans were killed by terrorists during Carter's 4 years??? How many Americans were killed by terrorists during Reagan's first 4 years??? (But, Bobert, all those Marines killed in Beruit were Carter's fault...) Yeah, an Bill Clinton got us into Iraqmire... Come on folks... You gotta take responsibility sometime... If there's any difference between the Repub and Dems since Nuixon the Repubs always blame their mistakes on other folks and no one ever takes a fall for their failures... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: GUEST,282RA Date: 01 Mar 07 - 06:13 PM >>Carter's abandonment of the shah in 1977-78 helped lead to the Islamic revolution<< Abandonment? His SUPPORT of the shah was the problem. It was Carter allowing the shah sanctuary here for the last days of his wretched life that pushed Iranian students to storm the American embassy and take hostages. >>Predictably, Carter and Zbigniew Brzezinski, his former national security adviser, are now pushing for "direct talks" with Iran. But considering the abject failure of U.N.-brokered negotiations (supported by the Bush administration) thus far, it is difficult to imagine how U.S.-led negotiations would fare any better.<< Especially considering the US completely ignored the UN when it caustioned not to invade Iraq. The US showed Iran that the UN doesn't have to be listened to. US-led negotiations are a disaster, US-led war is a disaster. Let's just leave. Before we make things even worse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: pdq Date: 01 Mar 07 - 06:07 PM I case you missed a real gem in there folks, here it is : "The late Democratic Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan summed it up when he said of Carter in 1980, "Unable to distinguish between our friends and our enemies, he has essentially adopted our enemies' view of the world." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: pdq Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:59 PM Cinnamon Stillwell is a San Francisco writer. She can be reached at cinnamonstillwell@yahoo.com. Read her blog at cinnamonstillwell.blogspot.com/. {length reduced for Mudcat policy reasons} 'Worst Ex-President' When it comes to the belligerence of North Korea, Carter's past involvement has done considerable damage. In the early 1990s, Carter traveled to North Korea on another of his "peacekeeping missions" and brokered a deal with dictator Kim Il Sung. He did so without the blessing of the Clinton administration, although, at the behest of then-Vice President Al Gore, President Clinton later agreed to adopt Carter's deal. The United States ended up providing aid, oil and, incredibly, material for building light-water nuclear reactors to the North Koreans in exchange for their abandoning their nuclear weapons program. The problem is they didn't abandon their nuclear weapons program; they just said they did. And in 2002, they admitted as much. Still, to this day, Carter claims that his approach was a success and that it was President Bush's inclusion of North Korea in the famous "axis of evil" speech that led to current leader Kim Jong Il's hostility toward America. The fruits of Carter's history with Iran are even more rotten. Carter's abandonment of the shah in 1977-78 helped lead to the Islamic revolution (and the murder or imprisonment of many of the Iranian leftists who had supported overthrowing the shah), the emboldening of the Soviet Union to invade Afghanistan and the rise of radical Islam worldwide. His botched approach to the Iranian hostage crisis of 1979 inspired Islamic terrorists all over the world, culminating in the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. The threat of nuclear war emanating from Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad can be seen as another offshoot of Carter's ineffective policies. Predictably, Carter and Zbigniew Brzezinski, his former national security adviser, are now pushing for "direct talks" with Iran. But considering the abject failure of U.N.-brokered negotiations (supported by the Bush administration) thus far, it is difficult to imagine how U.S.-led negotiations would fare any better. Wherever U.S. interests have been imperiled and a temporary "peace" could be bought at the expense of long-term security, Carter has always been on board. The late Democratic Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan summed it up when he said of Carter in 1980, "Unable to distinguish between our friends and our enemies, he has essentially adopted our enemies' view of the world." Meddler and Failure Another of Jimmy Carter's dubious legacies has been the now common habit of former presidents meddling in current politics. Carter has made many an enemy among both Republican and Democratic administrations by undermining their foreign policies via the Carter Center. As Chris Suellentrop put it in an article for Slate magazine, Carter has "difficulties coming to grips with the fact that he … [is] not president." Despite the overwhelming evidence of failure, Carter has become something of a sacred cow to many liberals, who often express outrage when their hero is criticized. But no one who inserts himself into the public sphere is above criticism. And how quickly Carter's fans forget the malaise that gripped the nation under his presidency. My own childhood memories of the time consist mostly of long lines snaking around gas stations due to the embargo on Iranian oil, not to mention a general feeling in the country of want and hopelessness. Carter may have inherited a recession, but his presidency did little to improve the weak economy. This was among the reasons that he lost re-election to Ronald Reagan in 1980. Yet somehow Carter's presidency is still held up by some as a shining example for the current leadership to follow. Woe unto Israel now that Carter's book has entered the pantheon of propaganda. And woe unto America if Jimmy Carter is our guiding light. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: KB in Iowa Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:15 PM The first energy 'crisis' was in 1973 when Nixon was president. That is when there lines at the gas station and OPEC became a household name. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Bobert Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:10 PM Ahhhh, least we forget that J.C. was president during the major flare up within OPEC... Can anyone explain to me how Carter could have prevented that occurance??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: GUEST,282RA Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:06 PM But anyway, yes, Bush is the worst president. Worst in my lifetime easy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: pdq Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:02 PM I was just listening to Dillard & Clark "The Incredible Expidition". Banjos, Clarks, what more could ya want, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: John Hardly Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:57 PM Ramsey Clarke founded the Byrds. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: curmudgeon Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:41 PM Ramsey Clarke was the Attorney General. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: pdq Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:33 PM That is your opinion, Birdfeathers, but even if it were true (it ain't), what gave Jimmy Carter the right to pull the rug out from under a legitimate foreign government (our ally) 26 years later? And, yes he did. When Carter was elected, we had strong allies in Lebanon, Iran, Turkey, Israel, Jordan and Saudi Arabia. After four years of Ramsey Clark's foreigh policy, the Middle East was in chaos. A realistic analysis of the Carter years is needed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:17 PM Oh, and almost everybody hated the Shah too. But Mossadegh was very popular. You know why? He didn't sell out to the foreign oil companies. He was a patriot. The Shah was a sellout and a tyrant. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:14 PM Hey, almost everybody hates banjos... ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: pdq Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:14 PM It is hard to read but here is a timeline for Mohamed Reza Pahlavi, legitimate monarch of Iran: BIOGRAPHY: 1919: October 26: Born in Teheran, Iran as son of the commander of the Cossack Brigade. 1925: His father becomes shah-en-shah of Iran. 1941: September: Succeeds his father as shah-en-shah, with the aim of keeping Soviet troops out of the country. — Pahlavi lets British and American troops use Iran for transporting supplies to the Soviet Union fighting the German invasion. 1946: Soviet troops that had been stationed in Iran during World War 2, withdraws. 1951: March: Mohammad Mosaddeq manages to pass a bill in the Majles (the parliament) to nationalize the British petroleum interests in Iran. — April: Mosaddeq appointed prime minister. 2 years of tension and conflict follows. 1953: August 16: After Mohammad Reza tries to remove Mosaddeq from power, he himself is forced to flee the country, following a power struggle with the prime minister. — August 19: With the help of US' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and royalist military officers, Mohammad Reza can return to the country. From this time on, USA became the most important Western ally of his. Mosaddeq is removed from power. 1955: Mohammad Reza takes Iran into the Western alliance Baghdad Pact. 1957: Mohammad Reza subscribes to the Eisenhower Doctrine, which aimed at damming up communism in the Middle East. — Establishes a security police, with the assistance of Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) of the USA and Mossad of Israel. 1960: October: Muhammad Reza becomes a father for the first time, with his third wife. 1961: A land reform programme is started. — Dissolves the parliament and rules by decree. 1963: A 5-year plan aims at economic development in agriculture and the industrial sector. — January: Launches the White Revolution which involved an expansion of the road, rail and air network, many new of dams and irrigation projects, aid to industrial growth and land reform. There were also educational and health projects. Campaigns against diseases such as malaria was started, and literacy corps and a health corps were sent out to the many remove villages around the country. — June A conflict with the religious leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini reaches a climax, resulting in nationwide protests against Mohammad Reza. Mohammad Reza crushed this, leaving thousands of dead. Khomeini is imprisoned. 1964: November: Khomeini is expelled from Iran, as he resumed opposition after being freed from prison 7 months earlier. 1971 2,500 years of unbroken monarchy is celebrated in Persepolis. 1972: Following the success of the 5-year plan of 1963, a new 5-year plan is defined and put into action — with further development as the aim. This plan would however overheat the economy, leading to depopulation of the countryside, heavy corruption and difficult times for the average Iranian. Late 1970's The opposition lead by Khomeini continues and gains momentum. When president Jimmy Carter takes office in USA in 1977, he forces Mohammad Reza to moderate the control of the opposition. 1979: January 16: Mohammad Reza leaves officially for holidays in Aswan, Egypt, but it is clear that he can never return. Khomeini would return from his exile the following month, and introduce a strict Islamic regime in Iran. — November: Iranian militants take 50 US citizens as hostages, demanding for the extradition of the shah in return for their release. The USA, which was the host of shah at this point, refused. 1980 July 27: Dies in Cairo from lymphatic cancer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: John Hardly Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:09 PM "You know why so many Iranians hate the USA, pdq?" That one's easy. We have better folk music than they do and they hate banjos. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Mar 07 - 03:48 PM You know why so many Iranians hate the USA, pdq? Not because the USA has democracy or "freedom"! No, because the USA took away their democracy and put them under the rule of a tyrant, that's why. And it happened in 1953. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Mar 07 - 03:45 PM By changing the rules and who gets to enforce them and how... How did England go from an absolute monarchy to a constitutional monarchy over a number of centuries? By changing the rules and changing who got to enforce them and how. (The first step in that was the Magna Carta, when the nobility forced the king to share some of his powers with them. It was a step in the right direction.) What happened after Mossadegh was overthrown in Iran was a massive step in the wrong direction. A parliamentary democracy which reflected the will of the Iranian people was replaced by an authoritarian dictatorship rule by a monarch who was an obedient client and servant of the UK, the USA, and the multinational oil companies. And from that came the eventual Islamic revolution which overthrew the Shah, and for which some other doofus here attempted to blame Jimmy Carter, of all people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: pdq Date: 01 Mar 07 - 03:35 PM Please do, if you feel so inclined. Now, consider that Mohamed Rezi Pahlavi was the legitimate monarch starting in 1941. His rule was ended by a violent coup in 1979 where most of the top business and military leaders were systematically slaughtered. Yes, Iran was led by the same man before and afrter the coup attempt in 1953. How could it have gone from constitutional monarchy to an absolute monarchy with the same people in charge? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: KB in Iowa Date: 01 Mar 07 - 03:31 PM I just Googled it and every site I checked agrees that Iran had a democratically elected PM from 1951 until 1953 when the US and Great Britain sponsored a coup. It is not just LH and wiki dreaming this up. I think if the more liberal members of our forum were arguing that Iran has no history of democracy then the more conservative members would point to 1951-53 to show that they do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Mar 07 - 03:21 PM pdq - You are evidently unacquainted with the difference between a constitutional monarchy, such as existed in Iran in the early 50's (and exists right now in the UK, Holland, Spain, and various other western democracies)....and an absolute monarchy, such as existed in Iran after the CIA-sponsored coup in 1953...and such as exists right now in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait as well. Must I explain to you what the difference is between a constitutional monarchy and an absolute monarchy? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: pdq Date: 01 Mar 07 - 02:57 PM Dear Birdfeathers, You are armed with nothing but pre-conceived prejudices against governments the US supports, and a propaganda article in Wikippoopoo. Go do some honest research and come back with a few facts. The articles in Wiki are written and submitted annonymously by readers and are not checked for accuracy. The person(s) who submitted the one you quote has a political agenda. Facts do not have agendas. To start, let's take things one item at a time. Please explain why other articles in Wiki show the Pahlavi Monarchy lasted from 1925 until 1979, yet this "democratically-elected" government you insist existed was in the early 1950s. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Mar 07 - 02:21 PM I AND Wickipedia said he was democratically elected, pdq. It is common knowledge, you utter doofus! Why don't you open the link I provided, read the flippin' article and educate yourself? ALL prime ministers in modern democracies are appointed by some other government official to the post of prime minister after winning an election, for God's sake! That is the case in Canada, the UK, and every other parliamentary democracy I know of. In constitutional monarchies, like the UK or Spain or Holland (I expect) it is the Monarch who appoints the prime minister. It is a ceremonial formality, and it is the monarch's job to do the ceremony. It's a rubber stamp. It doesn't mean that the monarch chooses who is going to BE prime minister...the public chooses that through voing their preference at the polls. Then the monarch rubber stamps it, everybody applauds, and it's official. In your country, the public goes out to the polls and votes their choice. The electoral college then casts their votes...as a solid block in each state (and I regard THAT as undemocratic)....the flippin' presidential candidate who gets the most electoral votes then has to go go...guess what...a CEREMONY...where he gets sworn in...by an official. Are you telling me that the public didn't choose him because that official is the one who swears him in? Are you telling me that he is not democratically elected in that case? That seems to be what you're telling me if you think that Mossadegh was not democratically elected by popular vote in Iran. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Riginslinger Date: 01 Mar 07 - 08:14 AM "My argument is that Jimmy Carter'd policies didn't creat the high interst rates..." If Carter's programs to expand and develop alternative sources of energy had been allowed to go forward we wouldn't be in the pickle we're in today either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Bobert Date: 28 Feb 07 - 08:05 PM Yo Amos, Well, yeah... I can't find fault with yer Econ 101... What I guess I didn't spell out about presdients havin' or not havin' control of interest rates is the Fed... As long as a president doesn't buck the Fed then most likely there won't be trouble... Bill Clinton is a prime example... He and Greenspan worker together real well and, might of fact, what Clinton did was purdy much what Jimmy Carter did... He tightened the belt on spending and cut into deficts which made out currency more attractive becuase the governemnt was solvent and not in mired in red ink... If you look at the Reagan Charge it" years the deficits finally took their toll and interest rates rose toward the end of his presidency and thus the recession that Bill Clinton inherited... My argument is that Jimmy Carter'd policies didn't creat the high interst rates... I can't think of any of his policies that would point to that... OPEC had a lot to do with it... The spendin' under LBJ and Nixon had a lot to do with it but Jimmy Carter's policies din't... At least, that is my memory ofd things... If I missed something along the way then please enlighten me... Yer bud, Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: pdq Date: 28 Feb 07 - 12:49 PM the majority of the post is not going through even though it appears on 'preview'
I corrected what I could, but couldn't find any hidden text (the text you typed that disappeared). You used a </> tag in many places where I think you meant to use </b> or </i> to close bold or italics. I don't think </> is a valid HTML tag, but I may be wrong. Perhaps it had something to do with your missing text. Also, your text is full of heavy use of the spacebar. I don't know if that would cause a problem or not. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: pdq Date: 28 Feb 07 - 12:33 PM "It is Wickipedia who says he was democratically elected, Dickey, so perhaps your argument is with them, not me." That is a disappointing ploy from you, Little Hawk. You said the government of Iran was democratically elected yet you have just transferred the blame for being wrong to Wikipedia. "Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh...was the democratically elected prime minister of Iran..." No, he was appointed by the leader of Iran, Mohamed Reza Pahlavi, head of the monarchy. "Mossadegh was elected by popular vote several times in his career as a politician." Yes, and Kerry was elected to the US Senate, but that does not make him anything but a Senator. Dr. Mossadegh was a member of the Iranian legislature, from there he was appointed prime minister. He then staged a coups which was put down (as it should have been). "You are siezing on what you hope will be an opportunity to prove that Iran has never had any democratic elections..." Since you seem to know that, why all the subterfuge. No amount of arguing will change facts, at least that is how a science major looks at things. Again, Iran has never had any democratically elected government. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Feb 07 - 10:42 PM S'cuse me! I called you "Dickey". I meant "pdq" in this case. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Feb 07 - 10:40 PM Yes, I anticipated that interpretation on your part, Dickey. I suspect it works a lot like that in most countries. The public elects someone. Then someone else in the structure of government, a high official, formally appoints that person to the office of prime minister or whatever the public elected them to. That's what they do in Canada. Our governor general (who is appointed by the Queen of England, I believe) appoints the leader of the political party that won the most votes in the last election to the office of prime minister after the votes are counted. It's a symbolic ceremony. I believe that's the way it works in England too. In your country, an outfit called the electoral college puts your winning candidate in the presidency after the public has cast their votes. That's another formality. I see little difference. It is Wickipedia who says he was democratically elected, Dickey, so perhaps your argument is with them, not me. You are grasping at straws. ;-) It is totally obvious if you read the whole article that Mossadegh was elected by popular vote several times in his career as a politician. You are siezing on what you hope will be an opportunity to prove that Iran has never had any democratic elections...but, my friend, that is mere wishful thinking on your part. Your government would prefer that you not know that other countries have democratic ideals too, specially when they are countries your government wants to attack. So they tell you from Grade 1 on that you guys invented democracy and now you must take it to the rest of the oh, so underprivileged world...at the point of a gun. If you believe that, you probably still believe in Santa Claus too... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: pdq Date: 27 Feb 07 - 10:19 PM Little Hawk, That is a good start. Battle of the Wiki, eh? Now please reconcile the statement from the third through fifth lines of your post: Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh...was the democratically elected prime minister of Iran from 1951 to 1953. He was twice appointed to office by Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran, and approved by the vote of parliament That cannot all be true. If he was appointed (correct answer) he could not have been elected, at least not in the same series of events. Also, the prime minister is subordinate to the King (Shah, in this case), so he was the Shah's helper, not the country's leader. Again, the time you claim Iran had a democratically-elected government is smack in the middle of the Pahlavi monarchy's rule: Mohammad Reza Pahlavi: Shah of Iran Reign September 16, 1941 - February 11, 1979 Born October 16, 1919, Tehran Died July 27, 1980, aged 60, Cairo Predecessor Reza Shah Pahlavi (ruled December 15, 1925 - Septmber 16, 1941) Heir-Apparent Reza Cyrus Pahlavi "...was the monarchial ruler of Iran from September 16, 1941 until the Iranian Revolution on February 11, 1979. He was the second monarch of the Pahlavi dynasty and the last Shah of the Iranian monarchy." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Feb 07 - 09:10 PM Oh. Sorry...here's the link to the Wickipedia article on Iran and Dr Mossadegh and the coup: Mossadegh |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Feb 07 - 08:55 PM Sure, pdq, with ease! ;-) The election I was referring to occurred in 1951, but there were some others besides before that. Here's a brief summary from Wickipedia (took me all of 10 seconds to find it): Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh (19 May 1882 - 5 March 1967) was the democratically elected prime minister of Iran from 1951 to 1953. He was twice appointed to office by Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran, and approved by the vote of parliament. Mossadegh was a nationalist and passionately opposed foreign intervention in Iran. He was also the architect of the nationalization of the Iranian oil industry which was dominated and exploited by the British through the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (today known as British Petroleum (BP). He was later removed from power by Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, in a CIA orchestrated coup, supported and funded by the British and the U.S. governments. The coup was led by CIA agent Kermit Roosevelt, Jr., the grandson of U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt, and came to be known as Operation Ajax, by its secret CIA cryptonym and the "28 Mordad 1332" coup, by its date on the Iranian calendar. Read the whole historical article. It's interesting. Remember, I don't write Wickipedia, and it's not part of a commie plot to mislead the world either. ;-) It is common knowledge in the Third World that the USA crushed Iran's fledgling democracy for its own business interests. Mossadegh's only crime was nationalism. He tried to put Iran in charge of its own oil. For that he was brought down in a CIA-sponsored coup. Some other democratically elected governments which have been covertly attacked (by coups and/or assassinations) by the USA's CIA operatives in more recent times: Chile in 1973 (coup and violent death of president Allende) Nicaraugua (longterm terrorist warfare by contras and USA-trained agents on civilian infrastructure and people of Nicaragua) Venezuela (attempted CIA coup recently...but it failed) Guatemala (coup, followed by much activity by CIA-trained death squads) Panama (Torrijos - assassinated - Panama later invaded. Reason? Panama Canal sovereignty issues. Phony excuse given: "Noriega is an evil drug-dealing man who must go." Ha! Ha! They loved Noriega's evil drug-dealing nature as long as he was willing to cooperate 100$ with the USA on certain vital matters, but he was stubborn regarding the Canal Zone treaty and some other issues.) Everyone in the Third World knows, pdq, that the USA will attack and bring down any democratically elected government in the Third World that doesn't cooperate fully with the multinational corporate objectives. It's pretty well only Americans who don't seem to know that yet. You're living in a gilded cage that is built on the bones and shattered dreams of Third World people, buddy. And so am I. But at least I know it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Amos Date: 27 Feb 07 - 08:25 PM Discontinuance of M3 On March 23, 2006, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System will cease publication of the M3 monetary aggregate. The Board will also cease publishing the following components: large-denomination time deposits, repurchase agreements (RPs), and Eurodollars. The Board will continue to publish institutional money market mutual funds as a memorandum item in this release. Measures of large-denomination time deposits will continue to be published by the Board in the Flow of Funds Accounts (Z.1 release) on a quarterly basis and in the H.8 release on a weekly basis (for commercial banks). http://www.federalreserve.gov/Releases/h6/discm3.htm FEDERAL RESERVE ORDERS TWO TRILLION DOLLARS TO BE PRINTED AND PUT INTO CIRCULATION! By Special Report Mar 28, 2006, 21:05 http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_21569.shtml TWO TRILLION $$ SOURCES WITHIN THE UNITED STATES TREASURY ARE FLABBERGASTED! INFO CORROBORATED BY THREE SEPARATE U.S. TREASURY SOURCES Six months ago, the Federal Reserve quietly announced that as of March 20, 2006, they would no longer publish "M3" Data. The "M3" was the amount of cash the government printed to put into circulation, propping-up the U.S. economy. As of eight days ago, M3 data is no longer being reported, so there is no way for the public, investors or bond holders to know how much currency exists - and no way to gauge how much a "dollar" is truly worth. Three separate sources in the U.S. Treasury have told me that this week, the federal reserve ordered TWO TRILLION dollars to be printed! The U.S. Treasury is allegedly running printing presses 24/7 to accommodate that order. Treasury employees were specifically ORDERED not to talk about this to anyone because it could cause economic collapse. Even worse, I was also told that the whole Immigration Amnesty Debate (especially the well-funded well-attended protests) was deliberately scheduled to take place now, to divert attention from this massive printing/devaluation of the U.S. Dollar. The feds allegedly figured that by the time anyone found out, they could smooth things over. They figured wrong. Surprise, boys, you've been exposed! Deeper explanation can be found here from November '05 A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Amos Date: 27 Feb 07 - 08:20 PM Not exackly, Beaubert. Interest rates creep up when the currency is debased. The currency is debased when huge amounts of it are invented by fiat. The erosion process of unnecessary war, adulteration of citizen standards of production, the corrosion of liberties, and the freefloating redoubling of M3, which the Feds just somehow lately stopped reporting, will gradually lead to further devaluation of the buck, panic and higher interest rates. The things are joined under the table. So Presidents do have an impact on interest over the long term. Our nation has a moral decline vis-a-vis productivity in that we save less today than any generation of Americans, and more of our population are upside down in debt. Our nation itself is spending five billion a DAY to service debt, up from 2-3 billion eight years ago. The rosy cloud of confidence in American fiat money is slipping. One reason is that the rosy cloud of confidence in American character has been badly dinged by Dick-Head Cheny and his gang of reckless marauders. Look for bubbles to slide, debt to be called, and a harder standard of living to emerge over the next decade. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Bobert Date: 27 Feb 07 - 07:56 PM Hey, let's get real here... Interest rates are a product of factors not related to who or isn't president... Presidents have little control of them unless, of course, we get a president who is so far off base that he single handedly screws things up so bad... Carter wasn't such a president... What Carter did, howwever, was cut the deficit... Yeah, I know that all you conservative (haha) Mudcatters hate it when lefty commie presdients act fiscally responsible and pay their bills but seems what we have going is the lefty commie havin' to continually clean up the deficit messes that the Repubs get us in... As for the hostage situation... How many Americans were killed by terrorists during that chapter of our history??? Now, how many were killed during Reagan??? Oh, I see, you all ahd conviently forgotten Lebanon... Shame on yer faulty memories... Okay, let me put it other terms... If you were a hostage, would you rather have Reagan or Carter in office... Hmmmmmmm??? Get my drift here??? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: pdq Date: 27 Feb 07 - 07:50 PM Little Hawk, Rather than dispute your entire post (I do, but that is too much to cover at one time), may I ask you to back-up this statement: ...without America destroying their elected government... If you are correct, you should have no problem citing dates (just one will do) when Persia/Iran had free elections. Anytime since 1925 will be fine. You might also name the person/people who were elected. That ain't too much to ask. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Riginslinger Date: 27 Feb 07 - 06:22 PM And interest rates didn't really go off the charts until Reagan stupidly retained Paul Volker, and then insured rates would stay high for years more before coming down by submitting his totally unhinged deficit budget to Congress in 1981. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Feb 07 - 06:04 PM That's for sure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: GUEST Date: 27 Feb 07 - 06:02 PM From which it (Iran) still has not fully recovered from! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Feb 07 - 05:56 PM No, fumblefingers, the CIA gave you the Iran crisis when they orchestrated the overthrow of a democratically elected civilian government in Iran in the 1950's and replaced it with absolute tyrannical rule by a monarch, the Shah. The Iranian Islamic revolution would never have happened without the Shah. The extreme Iranian hostility that accompanied the rise of Ayatollah Khomeini would not have happened without America destroying their elected government and replacing it with the Shah. It was done because the Shah was willing to cooperate fully with British and American oil companies. All that happened decades before Jimmy Carter was elected president, and none of it was his fault. You just have way too short a memory. The Iranians have a long memory. They do not forget that the USA destroyed their fledgling democracy after WWII and replaced it with a tyrant. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: fumblefingers Date: 27 Feb 07 - 05:49 PM Carter gave us the Iran fiasco to begin with. Interest rates hit 20% under his expertise. He was an incometent idiot then and his books and moronic remarks now show that he is still an idiot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Riginslinger Date: 27 Feb 07 - 07:31 AM Would there have been a Cold War, or a Korean War if Henry Wallace had still been VP when FDR died? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Feb 07 - 05:24 PM So...I'm assuming you wrote in Bill the Cat in 1992? ;-) |
