So How DOES one Request A Gig ?

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 03:49 PM

just did a large answer on here and it's disappeared. Is something going wrong?

sak

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 03:48 PM

GUEST,TIA : we've been doing freebees/floor spots for 4 years. Obviously we're not as good as we say and some folk clubs don't tell the truth! Trouble is, we live in the back of beyond where there are no folk clubs. We've been doing it for nothing 60-70 miles away in the west mids. And even those spots haven't been easy to get. This tends to make travelling expensive.
sal

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Hamish
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 06:28 AM

Personal contacts i.e. get out and be seen. Treat every floor spot as an audition.

Be persistent and organised: don't be afraid of being refused*. Get a Filofax with all contacts and histories of conversations etc and make sure you phone back slightly before you agreed you would.

Treat the booked as you you wish wish to be treated. Be professional. Take care with your contacts and promo packs. A sloppy approach there just could be construed as illustrative of a sloppy appraoch in general.

(i.e. all the stuff the previous posts have already said. Plus the Filofax)

Good luck.

Hamish.

*I know of many very talented artists who don't play as many gigs as they could cos they're afraid of a knock-back. So they don't phone.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Blowzabella
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:23 AM

At work, i rarely get time to listen to music clips on artists' websites (and the speakers on the computer don't do anything justice anyway) - and, the system blocks access to places like youtube and myspace. I prefer to receive a cd which I can listen to in the car to and from work - or take home and listen to at my leisure.

Also, I actually prefer samplers - snippets from tracks, rather than full eighteen verse renditions.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 04:44 AM

Well said Anahata. Yes, it's very difficult to strike the right balance in terms of contacts - specially when you're trying to fill one night of a tour, and you can't move on to your second option until you know for sure that the answer's no (it's amazing how many people never reply, even when you're asking about a specific night)!

Some organisers admit, very reasonably, that they just can't risk booking people they haven't seen, (quite a few of those never visit any other venue than their own, too, which presents a challenge if they're 200 miles away)! That's why I have a live track on my demo, and why Tom and I have a DVD, and also a video clip on uTube.

Organisers often explain that they have a list of people who the audience have asked to see - usually all long-serving artists who became established in days of yore, when there were a lot more clubs and audiences were younger and more up for something new.

This is again completely understandable and reasonable, of course - we all like to see our favourites, but I do hope that clubs will keep one eye to the future of folk, and do their best to fit in the occasional newcomer, and take the odd risk.

There are new things happening for younger musicians, but there's a HUGE gap between the acoustic cafe/wine bar culture and the good old club. FCs may, as many say, die out with our generation, but with luck enough youngsters will have seen why we like them so much to be able to feed a little bit of it into their own new operations - whatever form they take.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: treewind
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 04:11 AM

There's always some organisers like that. One well known performer got one who complained about his incessant pestering him on the phone. He'd previously called a YEAR before.

Floor spots are an excellent idea. We've gigged at nearly every club in East Anglia as a result of doing floor spots, and the only clubs we haven't played are the ones we haven't visited (yet) for a floor spot. The trouble with that system is it's fine until you've covered all th eplaces you can reasonably reach in one evening. Further afield really does need other means of contact. Festivals are a good way to get club gigs further from home, but you have to persuade somebody in the festival organisation to put you on a stage somewhere - an open singaround doesn't usually get you noticed by the right people.

Anahata

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 02:01 PM

All due respect to Jacey Bedford , but at least one Club booker of my acqaintance now has her E mail listed as SPAM because of the number of E Mails she sent him ! OverKill is NOT a good idea !

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 01:50 PM

Look............. before long everybody knows about you.

They know whether they are going to book you.

You know whether they are going to book you.

They're probably not. It's pretty much a closed shop. Live with it.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 01:43 PM

In the UK I would recommend getting out as often as possible to singers nights at Clubs that book artists. Visit themm regularly and stay the whole night. Be seen and always give a good performance. Choose an eclectic range of your material and never repeat yourself at the same club (unless requested to).

We have booked more than one regular visitor because we can see their quality, variety and become comfortable with them. Also our audience often asks us to book people who they have become familiar with and who they want to see doing a full night. When you get the gig work your socks off for weeks until you can do your whole set standing up in a hammock. If you're are well recieved ask immediately for a repeat booking in whatever cycle the club uses (we repeat minimum of 12 months if they give us a good night) This builds up a diary for you.

In short get out there often. Some majors won't do floor spots but we have more than a few who drop in on an idle night just to remind us they are still there.

Dave Wynn

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 06:01 AM

LOL I like it melodeonboy :-)

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 05:57 AM

If, as suggested above, "PG" refers to "professional singer", does it therefore follow that any advice he gives us will be referred to as "PG Tips"?

(cue: chimpanzees storming club organiser asking for gigs!)

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Marion
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 11:26 PM

Another good old thread about gig acquisition:

Music, Your Day Job

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Bert
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 10:34 PM

For most of them its just an neurotic excuse not to regard themselves as normal human beings...

Haa! I LOVE IT!

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 10:19 PM

If you want a a new way to show yourselves off, try putting that video on an iPod--then stand in the immediate proximity of whatever booker you want to see you and play the thing--he or she, and everyone else around will want a look--

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 08:47 PM

When I'm shopping for a new bathtub, I'll make a point of checking out as many dealers as it takes. I wouldn't be asking the plumber to send me a few.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Marion
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 08:32 PM

Here's an old thread that may also be of interest:

Booking folk gigs: some suggestions

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 08:20 PM

Just give me a video of a performence on a website and that is the best thing for me. I can judge from that if the performer has what it takes for my club.

Jez lowe in my opinion was well ahead of most people by putting a video on his own website of jez and the bad pennies. He didn't wait for myspace to come along.

You performers have to get smart and provide the organisers with something he or she can't refuse.Blimey the mind boggles :-) Its all aboutsmart selling, unless you are Vin garbutt. Even he is smart.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 05:01 PM

So, I just read the advice on getting a gig (well half of it) on http://www.folkwise.org/ and I must say, it's very good. As a matter of fact I'm getting the exterminators in to see if FolkWise has got my office bugged.
Their step by step description of how to conduct yourself on the telephone and follow up is excellent. The brochure story is hilarious to me because I've been using a similar technique but I've never had any sales training. I do know this though. Microsoft Works has a nice little Brochure template and if you gave somebody a glossy brochure which you've made at home, they have no idea whether it came from a batch of five or five thousand.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 04:36 PM

professional gigger?

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 04:20 PM

Ted: Who is PG?

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:59 PM

You should do what your "professional gigger" did--basically it amounts to going up to the booker with a confident smile on your face and asking for the gig--it works, providing the booker actually has a gig available, and feels comfortable with you--but to make that happen, you need learn how sell yourself--and that doesn't come naturally to most people (especially folkies)--

It's best to learn at the foot of a master(like PG above), but they generally work alone, so the next best trick is to find a good book that teaches the process of one-on-one selling--with special emphasis on "cold-calling"--and study it closely(It won't likely be a music related book, but that's OK)--then just go--with persistance, things will fall into place--

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:50 PM

And to you, Jim.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:36 PM

Supply and demand.

If they ain't demanding you as a folksinger, don't screw your life up - do something else. Have a look round, there are plenty of openings for performers and musicians. You've see the mindset of some of these people on mudcat. For most of them its just an neurotic excuse not to regard themselves as normal human beings, who sing and fart in the bath.(Oh no, not that finger in that orifice - real folksingers don't do that!)

sod 'em. do something else. the tradition will survive, DESPITE their opinionated bollocks.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:32 PM

Wow! Hats off to you Bonnie.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:25 PM

I did too put in the http:// - see my 7:13 AM posting!

Basically, it's all of the above - plus luck.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:52 PM

My experience - start by doing freebies (keep the day job). Soon word will get around, and you'll get offers (that pay very poorly, so still keep the day job).

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:50 PM

Having been both a performer and a booker, here's my perspective.

When performing I had the most success when I was able to clearly identify myself as a good fit for the venue, and then I made contact with the booker either by phone or e-mail. Sometimes I got no return phone call or e-mail, but it pays to be persistent. I would describe what I do and ask if I could send a demo or if they would be willing to take a look at my website and listen to sound samples. Some people wanted the demo, but some were happy with the website. I would send in in a packet along with a brochure and then follow up a few days after I figured it had arrived. Sometimes that wasn't necessary - someone would see me at a venue or festival and want to book me, or I would be recommended by someone and would get an offer based on that.

When booking, I WILL book people I have not seen if their music fits with what we want in the concert series, which is strictly traditional   I will want to see a list the venues they have played, and I'm happy to listen to sound clips on a website - I don't usually ask for a demo if they have something up on the web. I also will take into account other people's recommendations. If someone approaches me cold I prefer that it be by e-mail.   All they need to do is explain briefly what they do and send me a link to their website. We only have nine concerts a year so certainly there are many people that we can't book, and it might not be because we don't like them - it could be that we've had too much of that type of music lately (i.e. Appalachian, Irish, etc.) and we need to vary our program. Sometimes it may be that I would personally like their music, but I'm not sure our audience would turn out for it. Courtesy when approaching the booker is a must, and patience. And it is a little bit annoying when someone who obviously doesn't fit our criteria - which is clearly given on our website, is badgering us for a gig! To respond to the video question, I probably would take the time to watch a video but if it froze my computer up I wouldn't like it! I don't really need a video - but "live" sound clips are good.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:48 PM

So Rabbi Sol: You want free Cds because you have a cheap computer?
Please! Say it isn't so.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:45 PM

Val: I honestly think that the energy spent on such projects would be put to better use in other areas. I don't believe that getting into a bidding war with other artists who will inevitably come up with a better product, is the way to go.
The bar/restaurant owner wants to know that you can help sell his/her product.
The folk venues want to know that you can entertain their audience.
You want to know that they can provide the venue, best suited to your talents and guarantee enough money to make it worth your while.
Getting a gig is about business.
Performing is about art.
And ne'er the twain shall meet.


Or not.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:39 PM

The reason that I request a CD from a performer is to make sure that he or she is really playing folk and not rock music. If I like what I hear I then make an effort to see that performer live the next time that they are in my area. It is only after I have seen them live that I will book them. I do not like to listen to what is posted on MySpace or other web sites. Why not ? For 3 reasons. First of all I have a slow dial up connection to the internet which makes even streaming audio an ordeal due to the constant interruptions for buffering. Second of all I want to hear complete songs and not just snippets to get an idea of the thoughts the performer is trying to convey in his or her lyrics. Third of all computer speakers are of poor quality. Only a good high quality stereo unit will give me a true picture of what the performer sounds like.

                                                SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: skipy
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:30 PM

'giz us a job, I can do that!
Skipy

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:09 PM

What about providing a DVD, video clip on CDRom, or videotape of a segment of a live performance? Maybe only one or two numbers would suffice, don't have to have a whole show recorded. That would give an excellent example of your style, stage presence, etc.

You folks who do bookings - would you take time to watch a 3-6 minute video clip if provided?

Val

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 01:33 PM

I wouldn't know where to begin with this one. There's just so much to it. If you pay as much attention to the types of places you want to play in as the Owners do to the types of acts they want to hire, you'll find your niche.
As a general rule, if you're not turning down the odd gig then you're either not charging enough or not picky enough. I hope that makes sense to you.
As for the right way to ask... I prefer to make a phone call. You can arrange to meet if you want but in most cases, it's just not necessary. If your music is on your web-site, the manager/owner can scroll down and check you out while you're talking or as soon as you hang up.
As for CDs & Demos...... Don't get me started.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 12:21 PM

Keep trying. I turned down Paul Simon once, Over-priced, and I didnt think much of his songs. And he's done well, hasn't he?

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: oggie
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 12:01 PM

Don't limit your horizons to clubs and festivals, there's an awful lot of music out there. The important part is to get out and about so approach pubs, cafe bars etc, play your local if you've a free night. Are there any any-mic nights you can attend? As was said earlier gigs bred gigs, it's hard work but playing in non-folk surroundings improves your stage act no end.

All the best

Steve Ogden

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 10:45 AM

Failing all else, you could always promote your own gig, as discussed in another recent thread. Probably not recommended unless you are experienced enough and pretty confident of being able to attract a big enough audience though.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: treewind
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 10:40 AM

Here's a more direct link: Getting Gigs (PDF file)

Anahata

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: GUEST,Alan Surtees - Shrewsbury Folk Festival
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 10:11 AM

The artists booked for festivals most often reflect the personal preferences of the promoters who book them. This is what makes festivals so exciting and why audiences have their favourite events. Other factors will include a need to book artists with a proven record for attracting audiences. Thereafter promoters want to find a balance in the programmes they offer. Any one concert will, perhaps, want a headliner, a high energy band or top notch single performer. Then consideration will be given to a speciality act like The Old rope String Band or The Spooky Men's Chorale. The promoter will perhaps consider a duo or a world music act, always recognising the need to balance acts from the tradition with performers presenting contemporary work. This will work for all venues and the promoter will recognise the need to offer alternatives throughout the festival site, so that there will be something for everyone most of the time.

Artist availability will have an effect on the overall programming for concerts and most importantly the promoter will be working to a budget; again trying to balance artist cost against predicted ticket sales. This is why festivals are high risk businesses.

The promoter will be bombarded with up and coming new acts trying to get a gig. If the festival is small a clever promoter with a good ear can find good acts for relatively small cost, this will help the festival and the performers. Unfortunately for new acts a big festival is less likely to find performance spots for them. The promoter is booking well known acts to ensure his audience levels remain high.

The likelihood of new acts being booked gets higher if they present their information pack in decent condition. Send your recorded material; biogs, reviews, and most importantly for me, a list of up coming gigs, I like to see artists perform before I book them. But send them in some form of folder containing the whole package. I don't want to have a CD, letter, flyers and photographs slipping all over my office with everything getting separated. I would prefer a CD in plastic sleeve, I want the whole package to be slim, so that I can file it easily. I didn't say forget it.

Good promoters rarely let real talent slip by them, keep trying. There are thousands of acts trying to get gigs, it is a competitive world. Don't become a whinger it won't help. Talk to the promoter he (or she) will hate to refuse you, but they only have so many spots to fill. If they say no it isn't a cop-out, it is because they haven't got room in their programme, or the profile of your act doesn't fit with those already booked, or, in their opinion, you are not good enough. Well that is only their opinion, many world famous performers have been turned down by ignorant promoters.

Keep Trying.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 09:36 AM

When you created the blue clickie, you probably forgot to put http:// in front. That is critical forit top work.

There you go

http://www.folkwise.org/

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 08:48 AM

Sorry about the clickie, Sal - it works on my puter OK. You need to have Javascript enabled to access the page (you can always undo it again afterwards). If still no joy, try manually typing in www.folkwise.org and see if it works. Worth the effort -

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: muppitz
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 08:04 AM

I've just started co-running a club again and for our first year of operation we've asked acts to come and play that are well known and will bring in an audience, hopefully this will get us something of a following and then we can look at booking the not so well known as we'll have somesort of trust with our audience.
I also agree with Ruth, as persons who run events we don't like booking people from listening to CD's, it's more reliable to get the live experience and it all sort of falls back on that old cliche of being in the right place at the right time.
90% of the people we have booked are people we've caught on the off chance and become...... fans I suppose! (Groupies in some cases!)

muppitz
x

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:39 AM

Ditto Ruth

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:38 AM

Thanks for all of that. Didn't find any info at all on the blue clicky above. followed the instructions but nothing happened in that site. all blank. hmmm.

we have www.myspace.com/shotdogs
We're in the process of making a cd as i type. the tracks on the myspace were done for a demo in 04 and we still do those songs, but we're so much better now.

It all takes time. I think the pro, being a guy made the difference. www.gigall.co.uk search in band and performers for Howard Bragen. We have a wonderful quote from Dick Gaughan so we must ask him if he'd mind I suppose.

Keep it coming.

Sal

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:23 AM

Dunno how helpful this is, but gigs beget gigs. I know that a few of the smaller bands I programmed at my festival got approaches based on their performances. Similarly, when i go to festivals this summer I'll be on the lookout - not for headliners so much, but for those lower-profile artists I don't know about yet. Festivals are useful to programmers because they can see such a lot in a short space of time, so see if you can get onto the programme of festivals that are local to you - most festivals will programme a proportion of local guests because they want to support the local music scene.

I get on average at least one CD per day and find it REALLY hard to listen to them all. I also get Myspace approaches, and will usually listen briefly and see if a band sounds like they're doing something special. One or two have actually made me go, "crikey - I'd book them right now."

But for the most part, I like to have seen someone live (or get a recommendation from someone I trust) before I'll book them.

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:13 AM

Jacey Bedford has compiled two very useful downloadable .PDF's on this subject. Blue clicky is below, and follow the link "Info Files" in the column on the left.

http://www.folkwise.org

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: GUEST, Tom Bliss
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:12 AM

Yes at least one live track, with stage intro, including laughter (so tell a good joke), and applause at the end. Double up the applause if there's not enough lol!

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:10 AM

Hi
as someone who books guests at a folk club my experience with regard to demo/cd's is that they don't always give a true example of how a performer actually relates to an audience. I have, in the dim and distant past, booked a couple of acts on demos and found them wanting. It is not fair to put audiences thru an act that doesn't work (it's also not fair on the performers if they are placed in a venue that isn't right for their act). Another issue revolves around whether an audience trusts you to only put on someone worth seeing-they don't always trust you. If I have seen the act perform in club/festival venue and like them, then I may be prepared to book them knowing that I am likely to lose money on the night but will, at least, enjoy their performance myself. I realise that there is a catch 22 situation here but I don't make the rules! (if only I knew what the rules were life would be so much easier) I guess this isn't much practical help and I do wish that I had a simple catch all answer but I'm afraid I don't. good luck

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:09 AM

Four tips for starters:

• Make sure the CD production reflects your live performance (i.e if you are a duo, don't have a band playing on the CD)
  
• Include a list of your past performances
  
• Include any references from artists who HAVE played at the venue
  
• It is hard (and expensive) if you are located a distance from the venue, but TRY and get there to do a spot. If it WOWS the audience and organisers, you are half way there!

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:06 AM

Perhaps it depends on how you describe what you do, to potential bookers.

Are you able to say what the guy said to the landlord, i.e. how he 'explained what he does'? It would be interesting to know how much detail he went into, etc. Presumably you were able to listen and maybe get some tips on how to go about it.

(I don't book our gigs myself, so this is something I don't know much about)

Subject: RE: So How DOES one Request A Gig ?
From: GUEST,John Robinson
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:05 AM

It varies a lot from venue to venue to be honest. The key thing to to find promoters/venue owners etc who you you feel you can work with and who are happy to work with you. Filter out the folks who will just waste your time, don't let them drag you down and move quickly onto the next venue/promoter/club.

One of the best pieces of business advice I have ever had is to ask not "what do I want to do" but "who do I want to work with". That was from a millionaire self made businessman who also happened to be a really nice chap.