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Origin: Songs from Great Big Sea

23 Sep 02 - 06:06 PM (#789855)
Subject: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: RobinRose

Hello!

I was passed on here by the good folks at the Great Big Sea Online Kitchen Party forum. They told me that you folks might be able to help me find some information on some traditional music played by Great Big Sea. I'm a radio student, and I'm putting together a one-hour profile on the band. What I wanted to do was talk about the history behind some of their music, but I'm having a difficult time finding what I need.

Some of the songs I'm hoping to find info on are,

  • Billy Peddle
  • Mari Mac
  • The Night Pat Murphy Died
  • Barque in the Harbor
  • Scolding Wife
  • Donkey Riding
  • Rant and Roar
  • Jolly Butcher
  • Jack Hinks
  • Ferryland Sealer
  • Old Brown's Daughter
  • Yarmouth Town
I only need about half of these, but I figure there's info on some of these and none on others, or very little. I'd deeply appreciate any assistance.

Thank you,
Robin

23 Sep 02 - 06:11 PM (#789857)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: Clinton Hammond

Ya... most of those are from the Big Book Of Traditional East Coast Cheese Monkey Songs

,-)

23 Sep 02 - 07:44 PM (#789897)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca

Clinton, he's asking a reasonable question.

However, Robin Rose, Have a look at the links up on top. One of them leads to Forum Search. I looked up using Rant and Roar, and it came up with several items, one of which is the song lyrics in the DT Database, and several message threads of which one is about Spanish LAdies. It's a possible precursor to that song:

We'll Rant And We'll Roar
Spanish Ladies - Read notes for We'll Rant And We'll Roar

23 Sep 02 - 07:49 PM (#789905)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: curmudgeon

RobinRose -- You really need to give us a bit more to go on. Donkey Riding is a variant of Hielan Laddie, a shanty derived from a trad Scots tune with later words.

Is the version of Scolding Wife the same as the Devil and the Farmer's Wife? Which Rant and Roar; Brit. Navy, whaling, overlander?

Will help if I can -- Tom

23 Sep 02 - 07:49 PM (#789906)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: RobinRose

She, and thank you. I tried a few of the songs, and didn't come up with anything. It seems I didn't search properly, because that's precisely what I'm looking for! Thank you very much :)

Robin

23 Sep 02 - 07:53 PM (#789912)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca

Another source, Robin, is to find the three volume set of books from Ken Peacock, which (I think) is titled Songs of the Newfoundland Outports. It should be in most university libraries. It was published by the National Museum back in the late fifties or early sixties. Some of these songs were also common in Nova Scotia, so you might also look at some of the songbooks from Helen Creighton. Check out your local library.

23 Sep 02 - 08:07 PM (#789926)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: RobinRose

Hi again,

Sorry, I'm not really well versed in folk music, am really just starting to learn. I know there are dozens of versions, and I know that Great Big Sea has done a lot of re-making of the traditional stuff, changing the lyrics a bit. They do all Maritimes/Newfoundland versions of the songs.

Scolding Wife:
Well I came into a scolding wife a few short years ago
And ever since I lead a life of misery and woe
My wife she is a tyrant around the grooming
Ah she'd sell me to the devil for a glass or two of gin
Chorus:
And if the devil'd take her I'd thank him for his pain
I swear to God I'll hang meself if I get married again
And if the devil'd take her I'd thank him for his pain
Though I swear to God I'll hang myself if I get married again

---
There's more verses than that, but I don't want to overburden. The whole song is at:
http://www.geocities.com/greatbigsea_alex/sonclyrics.html#wife
--
Donkey Riding, I suppose it would be the 'Canadian' version.
--
Was you ever in Quebec
Launchin' timber on the deck?
Where ya break yer bleedin' neck
Ridin' on a donkey!

Was you ever 'round Cape Horn
Where the weather's never warm?
Wished to God you'd never been born
Ridin' on a donkey.

Was you ever in Miramichi
Where ye tie up to a tree,
An' the girls sit on yer knee?
Ridin' on a donkey

---
What I'm mainly looking for is just a little blurb about the root of the song, where it came from, and what the history surrounding it is. Like whether or not it was originally a Newfoundland song, or if it was derived from other sources. I'm running an hour of music, and between each song, I hope to talk a bit about the history of it. I'd really like to find out more about Barque in the Harbor. I've heard it's quite an old one.

I'll check my library at my college, but it's not the best library, and I don't think I'm allowed to check out books from the local university. I might go there and do some research.

Thanks very much for your help so far,

Robin

23 Sep 02 - 08:08 PM (#789927)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: MMario

'Yarmouth Town' is a revamp of Do-me-ama

see this thread

versions of both are in the DT.

23 Sep 02 - 08:08 PM (#789928)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca

Night Pat Murphy Died
Night Pat Murphy Died
Night Pat Murphy Died

23 Sep 02 - 08:09 PM (#789930)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: masato sakurai

The tune to "Billy Peddle" is "Soldier's Joy." Here's another version (from The Fiddler's Companion: Soldier's Joy):

In Newfoundland, it is sometimes known as "John White" and sung accompanied by the fiddle or accordion:
***
Did you see, did you see, did you see John White?
Did you see, did you see, did you see John White?
Did you see, did you see, did you see John White?
He's gone around the harbour for to stay all night.
He's gone around the harbour for to get a dozen beer.
He's gone around the harbour and he won't be coming here.
He's gone around the harbour for to get a cup of tea.
If you sees him will you tell him that I wants he?

~Masato

23 Sep 02 - 08:22 PM (#789939)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca

Scolding Wife
Scolding Wife - Alternate Names
Some similar text in this

23 Sep 02 - 08:31 PM (#789947)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca

A little more information on We'll Rant And We'll Roar

23 Sep 02 - 08:43 PM (#789953)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca

Hieland Laddie
Hieland Landie2
Hieland Laddie3
Hieland Laddie4
The Hieland Laddie - Forum

23 Sep 02 - 10:13 PM (#789976)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: GUEST,Extra Stout

Hi, Robin. "Donkey Riding" didn't make much sense to me, so I did a little research and learned that a nautical donkey could be an auxiliary engine or a sailor's sea chest. I wonder if it could be related to a "jackass barque"? I still don't understand it but its a great song. Good luck.

23 Sep 02 - 10:22 PM (#789978)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca

Ferryland Sealer
Listing of the Ken Peacock Books

23 Sep 02 - 10:29 PM (#789979)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca

Old Brown's Daughter
Old Brown's Daughter

23 Sep 02 - 10:33 PM (#789981)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca

Yarmouth Town
Yarmouth Town

23 Sep 02 - 10:38 PM (#789984)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca

Jack Hinks

23 Sep 02 - 10:38 PM (#789985)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: Art Thieme

and a version of "We'll Rant And We'll Roar" was sung by the grizzled old salt / shark hunter who was played by Robert ? (name escapes me at the moment) in the film JAWS. But everyone who ever was afloat anywhere on any body of water has "adapted" this song to their situation. It is a grand lyric and a more fun song to sing is nowhere in all of folksong. (Give a listen to Ewan MacColl and A. L. Lloyd's wonderful version of this one. Each of the songs you are looking for info on might be extensively researched, annotated and/or otherwise footnoted ad infinitum. You have a fun time ahead of you searching and singing...

Art Thieme

23 Sep 02 - 10:51 PM (#789993)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca

Have a look at

Newfoundland Songs

23 Sep 02 - 11:11 PM (#790000)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: Nerd

Also, Robin, you haven't said where you're at. If you're in NF, there's plenty of people you can look for to help you. Memorial University folklore department, to start, but also the likes of Fergus O'Byrne, Jean Hewson, Don Walsh and Jim Payne are kicking around St. John's a good part of the year. GBS learned many of their songs from the likes of Fergus, so he'd be a natural interview...I think they adapted "Jolly Butcher" from Jean's version, and Jim and Don were working on a CD ROM version of the Peacock book last I spoke to them.

It might make sense for you to call the folklore department at Memorial anyway and see if they can help you. Phillip Hiscock in the archives has a pretty strong knowledge of the field-recorded legacy of NF outport songs, and the boys did do SOME of their research there...

other books:

Maud Karpeles: Folk Songs from Newfoundland
Genevieve Lehr: Come and I Will Sing You

24 Sep 02 - 02:51 AM (#790078)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: RobinRose

Unfortunately, I'm on the island on the other side of the country from the Tropical Isle of Newfoundland, so most of that folklore stuff is out of reach. Funnily enough, someone over on the Great Big Sea board mentioned Fergus O'Byrne as well. If I'm not mistaken, I think the GBS boys actually went to Memorial, one at least who actually studied Folklore.

Thanks to George for all your efforts. It's given me some stuff to go on, and I think I'm putting together what I need from poking around and from the liner notes, which I found out have little blurbs on the traditional songs on at least their latest album.

Thanks to everyone else who responded so quickly. It's helped me a lot!

And Donkey Riding? Darned if I know what it means. I just know that GBS does wicked harmony with it.

Robin

24 Sep 02 - 08:48 AM (#790203)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: Willie-O

Donkey Riding does indeed refer to the engine used for unloading cargo, probably going back to nineteenth century.

Sort of like a mechanical bull as seen in overly macho honky-tonks, but with an actual purpose.

If there was one record that is a sort of early collection of greatest Nfld hits, try finding Alan Mills record "Folk Songs of Newfoundland", a 10" album made in the 50's. Most of the songs on it are still sung today by GBS and many other current maritime performers, including "A Great Big Sea Hove In Long Beach", from which the name derives.

To make your show a little more than a GBS tribute with commentary, maybe you should throw in a few alternative recordings of songs which are associated with them. I actually like GBS quite a lot and they have done as much as that insane fiddle player guy to make east coast music cool, but they don't claim to own the repertoire so maybe your program should reflect that. Just a thought.

Willie-o

24 Sep 02 - 09:42 AM (#790226)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: The Pooka

Art Thieme - re "Jaws" - Robert Shaw. As Captain Quint. Prior to his becoming a nice hors-d'oeuvre. ("Candygram.") Was that the one beginning "Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies"?? / The mad Quint also did a fine literary recitation of, approximately,

Here's to the memory of Molly Magee
Who died at the age of a hundred and three.
For fifteen years she had kept her virginity.
Not a bad record, for this vicinity.

:) Thanks everyone for the excellent info in this thread.

--General Taylor

24 Sep 02 - 11:39 AM (#790323)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: RobinRose

Actually, I don't have a choice with the assignment. It's for school, and it has to be an artist's profile, focusing on one specific group. I'm actually going off track a little bit already, by talking about the background in the songs. It'd be nice to be able to mix it up, but because of the assignment, I unforunately can't, not and still meet the critera.

Thanks again for all the assistance!

Robin

24 Sep 02 - 01:16 PM (#790412)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: nutty

There is a broadside of Old Brown's Daughter in the Bodleian Museum ...... printed some time after 1850

OLD BROWN'S DAUGHTER

24 Sep 02 - 01:46 PM (#790438)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: Nerd

Robin,

depending on how much time you have, you may still be able to contact the memorial U folks by email...

The boys did go to Memorial. Darryl took several folklore classes, and Sean took one or two. A friend of mine is a prof who remembers Darryl fondly.

Dirty Linen did a feature on GBS recently; it's on line at their web site www.dirtylinen.com. Go through the back issues and you'll find it in the one with Tom Paxton on the cover.

24 Sep 02 - 03:08 PM (#790483)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: Naemanson

I've been singing Mary Mac for years thinking it was a traditional song. I once asked Jean Redpath about Mary Mac after hearing her sing it in concert. She said she thought it was from the English Music Hall. It makes sense to me. The English never had much respect for the Irish in the old days.

24 Sep 02 - 04:13 PM (#790504)
Subject: RE: Great Big Sea traditional song origin
From: Naemanson

I've been singing Pat Murphy as long as I have Mary Mac. In fact I stole this Mary Mac, Bonny Black Hare, and Pat Murphy all from the same tape. I bought it from a street singer, Steve Lauterbach, at a Rennaissance Fair in Colorado in 1987.

As a folk process note, I usually sing the last line of the first verse as:

And O'Leary came with bagpipes and music for to play

Instead of:

And a lady came with bagpipes and music for to play

05 Apr 25 - 09:43 PM (#4220367)
Subject: RE: Origin: Songs from Great Big Sea
From: GUEST,Hilary Dickson

If you find (on YouTube)Figgy Duff, listen to "the Kissing Dance Medley" which includes "Soldiers Joy", you will find Pam Morgan and the boys singing "Billy Peddle, Billy Peddle did you see John White, Billy Peddle Billy Peddle did you see John White,Billy Peddle Billy Peddle did you see John White, he's gone around the harbour for to stay all night, he's gone around the harbour to get a dozen beer, he's gone around the harbour and he won't be coming here, gone around the harbour for to get a cup of tea, if you see the little bugger tell him I wants he!"