Where is God?

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: kendall
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 08:21 PM

Well, I must say I was expecting a broadside. Should have known that such an intelligent group would agree with me! LOL Amos, I thought a "pitard" was a dagger?

---

Please go to Where Is God, Book 2 (click)

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: SharonA
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:52 PM

Oops! Sorry, Amos, I missed seeing your post with the link to Part 2 of this thread.

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: SharonA
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:49 PM

No, no, Dan, I wasn't funnin'! It simply occurred to me after I posted that you might not know that I was borrowing a phrase from "Uncle Tom's Cabin" by Harriet Beecher Stowe.

Here's the reference, a bit of the initial interview between Topsy, the young slave girl, and the mistress to whom she's just been delivered:

  "Have you ever heard anything about God, Topsy?"

  The child looked bewildered, but grinned as usual.

  "Do you know who made you?"

  "Nobody, as I knows on," said the child, with a short laugh.

  The idea appeared to amuse her considerably; for her eyes twinkled, and she added,

  "I spect I grow'd. Don't think nobody never made me."


...so there you have it. This is also the origin of the phrase "growed like Topsy." Again, please rest assured that I was not making fun of you, Dan.

Sharon

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:47 PM

Book Two of How High The Left (joke, sorry) can be found over here for faster loading. Please post there instead of to this thread which is too long already.

A

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:43 PM

There is no reason you cannot, Dan. There are various schools of meditation and spiritual therapeutics of one or another sort which lead you in that direction, but with such things your mileage as always may vary.

There is no inherent reason why having a body should preclude ALSO having cosmic-scale spiritual experiences, but it seems to frequently do so, anyway. My belief is that for many people having a body involves adopting a lot of automaticities and abandoning a lot of creative responsibilities, and that's a slippery slope to walk back up; but there is no path other than walking back up in regardless of what techniques you use. The common denominators of all such paths that seem workable are re-assuming responsibility aned creative power over the apparencies of being that one has taken on as "the way it is", rather than letting them continue as external-determinants. One interesting recent book in this direction is called The Toltec Way although I have no reason to assume it is actually a Toltec legacy; but it is a nice name for the book, which discusses many aspects of this philosophical/spiritual approach.

'Course this could open the way for all kinds of supercilious corrective noises, but I guess I'll take the risk, and if worse comes to worse I will convert to petaphysics. That's a nice safe religion because the critics and pedants tend to stay out of range. :>)

A

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: GUEST, Dan
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:58 PM

Nope.

(Unless it was Sardus in "And the Ass Saw the Angel.") (And you guys shouldn't be funnin yourselves on my lack of education.)

And I can't get it out of my head that my question/desire of what it's like to sense the unmanifest is perfectly analogous, as Carol might put it, to a deep sea invertebrate wanting to feel wet.

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: SharonA
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:49 PM

I take it you know the literary (if you can call it that) reference of "growed", Dan, yes?

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:14 PM

Yeah, Sharon, there's no more accurate answer than that. Eloquence, for sure, but no more accuracy.

Dan

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: SharonA
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:04 PM

GUEST (Dan): I think man just growed.

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:01 PM

I sense a bit of circularity here. Sure, man invents morals and similarly invents "God." But the flip side is the more interesting question of who/what invented man/consciousness. Having said man invents God, you bootstrap (hogtie?) yourself into saying man invented himself.

Did I say that right? (I'm still doing this without the benefit of Amos' dictionary which never arrived.) I'm pretty much with Litle Hawk, right down to the rocks, but those (Eastern?) religions which avoid the Big Question, because it is unknowable, have still avoided the Big Question. "In the beginning. . . . " And so has this thread (because we must.) But it sucks. I want to see, touch, hear or somehow sense the unmanifest from which the rocks and consciousness arose. But, like Amos, I don't really want to vaporize, or etherize.

I think Gautama's answer was "fuck it, just let it go." And I try.

Dan

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:22 PM

Well, there's pataphysics and there's petaphysics, derived from the Old French peter to fart, found in the derivative "petard", a small cannon-like weapon, as in "hoist by his own petard". Petaphysics is the science and art of flatulence, and the Mudcat is honored to have among its memebers one of the world's most advanced scholars of the subject, Mister Bubba Catspaw49 himself, in constant attendance. He was written numerous tomes in the field and is conisered one of the world's leading experts on the typographical representation of petaphysical dynamic analog atmospheric density waveforms, as a brief review of his many posts will surely substantiate.

As to whether Bill D would ever lead you astray, it depends on your curves and the shape of your maidenhead.

Regards,

A.

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:13 PM

answer here

Back in the 1960s, The Evergreen Review published a long article on Pataphysics, which explains the whole thing. Just do a Google search on Pataphysics and Alfred Jarry, and you'll soon comprehend it all....honest....would I lead you astray?

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:20 AM

Wow! We are approaching a consensus here. Almost unprecedented!

- LH

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: SharonA
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:15 AM

Little Hawk says: "...for me, everything is alive, and death is a term which denotes merely the ending of one specific life form as it changes to some other type of living manifestation."

LH, I absolutely agree with that. I'm glad that you mentioned atoms, which reinforces my point about scientific research having answered at least some questions about life and death.

Thanks for the compliment! Also, nice point about "ego identities" as a temporary mask on the face of life (there's my thought-to-ponder for the day!).

Sharon

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 10:54 AM

I even like the rocks Kendall - Steve

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 09:57 AM

Ah, Kendall, kindred souls are a joy to see. I would add --"You not only asked for it -- hell, you designed it!". I think the great flaw in religious schools I have studied is the underestimation of potential and actual power in the individual human spirit. But, in many cases, they were founded to keep that power in check anyway so whaddya expect!

The classic model of the Wheel kind of paints this picture, as though we were all bubbles cycling up in a champagne bottle, and then back down, hopefully at a higher level each time. But I draw one distinction. Some schools hold that the great aspiration of all souls is to get off the wheel, or go gaseous at the top of the bottle, so to speak. They talk about becoming One with All as the nature of the enlightened state.

Personally I intend a fully operational two-way ticket. The complete avatar able to operate identities at any scale at will, release them at will, become one with all or not at will, is a much fuller definition of my notion of full enlightenment. I'm not interested in permanent assimilation. Hell, I use a Mac, too! :>)

A

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: kendall
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 09:02 AM

LH, you and I agree on much of what you said. I dont know about rocks, but, I do believe that all living things simply pass from form to formless ad infinitum.

Amos, you asked for it. I believe that we came here into this 3 d world to teach and to learn. We came with our own agenda, and we chose our parents and living situation according to what lessons we have to learn. Those who blame God, are aiming at the wrong entity. WE chose this incarnation, not he/she. We are all on the ladder/stairs toward enlightenment. Some of us are old souls having gone through many incarnations, and some are young souls with many incarnations ahead of us. Jesus, Budda and Gahndi are examples of enlightenment. They are way ahead of most of us on that ladder, in fact, they are probably already one with God. Eventually, we will all be re-united with the creator. So, stop blaming God, you asked for it.

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:03 AM

I'm with you, Blackcatter; Rab Burns put it in a succinct wee parcel in one of his "epitaphs"-----p "Here lies Boghead amang the dead,In hopes tae get salvation---But if such as he in Heav'n may be, then welcome, hail Damnation!"

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:28 AM

Don't blow his cover Carol!

Rick

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:20 AM

No, Little Hawk. You're one of the sanest people I know. And I can say that because I've spent time with you in the 3D world.

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:14 AM

Sharon - Beautifully said and well reasoned! As regards the life and death of organic physical creatures in nature (including us people) you are absolutely right. One forms ideas about it by directly observing it....or by being told things about it by other people...or both. I still say it arose out of the unmanifest (which existed before the "big bang"), but that's just faith on my part.

I also believe that everything is alive in a certain sense...even things which are considered inert, such as rocks or air, but that doesn't mean they are alive in a biological sense or that they are conscious. If you look at their atoms, however, you find them full of active little packets of energy, and I define that energy as a very basic form of life.

So for me, everything is alive, and death is a term which denotes merely the ending of one specific life form as it changes to some other type of living manifestation. A person's body dies, and then its parts disassociate, but the protons, neutrons and electrons that made it up don't die...they go on to form other things. Life never really ends, but it constantly changes, and thus appears to die in an outward sense to someone who is observing the process. Ego identities, however, most certainly die. They are a temporary mask on the face of life.

Just my particular view on that subject...

Of course, I'm crazy... :-)

- LH

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 08:05 PM

Aw, Kendall, give it your best shot -- you might enjoy the change of venue! You're already out on the limb next to mine, anyway...worst you'll get is a buckshot load of superciliosity....and you already have the antibody for it, I reckon.

A

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: kendall
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 08:02 PM

If I were to post the rest of what I believe, Spaw and his gang would kidnap me, and, put me in the Niel Young ctr.

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Kim C
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 05:52 PM

I'm with you, Kendall.... but it reminds me of that line in Mame where she says, "Life's a banquet and most poor sonsabitches are starving to death." ;-)

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 05:22 PM

You're welcome, Amos.

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 05:20 PM

Gee, Carol, thanks for putting me straight there. Just what I needed.

Sheesh.

A

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: GUEST,Fiver
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 05:18 PM

Just to let you know I've been here, and reading your thoughts. Funny how much three little words can draw out--

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 04:53 PM

And those who believe continue to believe, and those who don't still don't. God bless 'em all!

Jerry

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 04:39 PM

to even ask the question requires a profound inability to hear the answer.

It's a silly question

These kinds of statements come across as condescending and intolerant. If there are some people who believe that there can be a "where" or a "there" in reference to "God", it is there belief, and it is not subject to the test of what you consider logical or acceptable. It just is.

And a discussion of this sort is never a waste of time unless all of the parties involved in it think it is. It may be a wast of your time, but the rest of us get to decide whether or not we think it's a waste of our time, regardless of whether or not it meets your criteria.

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: SharonA
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 04:39 PM

LOL, beadie!!! (psst... the creation verses are in Genesis...)

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: beadie
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 04:25 PM

A seldom quoted passage from the end of one version of the creation verses in Exodus that proves the falacy of the evolutionist theory and casts God in a distinctly modern (libertarian) light:

- - And God saw everything He had made, and He saw that it was exceeding good; and God said "It just goes to show Me what the private sector can accomplish. With a lot of damn fool government regulations, this could have taken billions of years." - -

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 04:21 PM

It's all so individual. In 1966 I would have shot anyone telling me there was a God that would allow what I had witnessed. Therefore there was no God. In my unit there were some who believed and others who believed in the law of fire superiority - I was a member of the latter. So as I said earlier the no atheists in trenches isn't a very good truth for me. I still struggle with it. But I sure as hell am not going to perpetuate my truth on someone else.

Sharon is right on for me - God is whatever or whomever one has created to be at peace with one's beliefs. If that be aetheism - good enough for me. It does come from within - even if it is sucked from an outside source to the inside space.

Like Blackcatter implies - if it takes getting shot at to make you a believer - sorry that don't cut it - how strong was your faith to begin with.

It's like today in America after the attack - "God bless Amnerica" is everywhere - where was it before? And where were the flags before? Just $19.95 + S&H will make you a true blue patriot. Just my opinion -

Steve

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: SharonA
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 04:04 PM

Blackcatter: Thanks for your comment; that "trenches" platitude always bothered me.

I think it was Little Hawk who said, above: "That out of which all observable manifestations arise cannot properly be spoken of as "dead" since it is itself the source of both life and death, which would not exist as concepts in someone's mind had they not arisen out of the unmanifest in the first place."

Hmmm... I would've thought the concepts of life and death existed in someone's mind because that person had observed other people, animals and plants that lived and died. Until that person sees anyone or anything die, he couldn't form a concept of "death" in his mind. He would form, at best, an inaccurate concept of "life" until he sees life end and renew itself.

What about this concept that life and death "arose out of the unmanifest" and that it is the "source of both life and death"? Sorry, but I think that's just something someone thought up to explain life and death before the era of scientific research answered at least some of his questions about life and death. It may someday answer them all, it may not; but I think that man's experimentation is a better way of finding answers than man's creation of belief systems that didn't exist before he invented them. The proclamation of a "divine mystery" only intimidates some people from solving the mystery.

So why does man think there needs to be a source of life and death, and why does he invent deities and "the unmanifest" and such? In order to prolong life and improve its quality, and in order to die at peace with himself (whether at rest or at war!). To make himself feel better physically and emotionally... and for the person who believes in what he or another person has invented, that often does make him feel better (how do we know? Through scientific research into the ways in which the brain can be trained to trigger the release of chemicals in the body, and even to deprive itself of certain chemicals in order to achieve a "prayerful" or trance state).

Some may assert that it is "God" or "the unmanifest" or the "DMATCOTU" that/who created man so that he would seek a creator and find that physical and emotional comfort in it/him/her, but I think that's just part of man's invention (an excuse for believing, if you will: "I believe because God made me believe... I believe so, anyway").

So, to answer the question "Where is God?" I think that "God" is "in" the believer (in that "God" is in the believer's mind as the believer's invention, or as the invention of someone else who has convinced the believer of its validity). As to which invention is the "right" one: whatever works! (In other words, if your belief is helping you be the best you can be physically and emotionally, that's the invention that's right for you) (or, to use Amos's chef analogy, some think the food is better with more garlic, others with less).

To answer the question "Any views on proposed legislation to make incitement to religious hatred a criminal offence" Of course, if a person feels better after persecuting someone else for a differing religious belief and inciting others to hate that someone, the persecutor may believe even more strongly that his "God" is the "right" one (for having increased the persecutor's sense of well-being). So now his invention of "God" is an excuse for hatred. The problem is in not accepting that others must invent their own concepts of "God", and sometimes in not even allowing others to invent a different "God". Sooner or later this will fail; people will eventually succeed in resisting that kind of morally criminal force. But in the meantime, is the persecutor a criminal in the legal sense?

Well, I guess I would need a legal definition of "incitement". For instance, I hate what the Taliban has done in the name of religion, and I would certainly like to convince anyone else that what the Taliban has done is hateful, but would I be charged as a criminal if I spoke out against the Taliban??? I think the criminal charges should be reserved for inciting to perpetrate a crime (murder, assault, etc.) upon someone, whether for the reason of religious intolerance or any other reason. But that's just my "God" talking. ;^)

(BTW, my "God" isn't an invented deity at all, just a set of conclusions that I've reached and morals that I am happy to adhere to. Here again, I think man invented morals – in order to exist in a society – but invented deities to give credence to those morals and to reinforce the desire for society members to live by those morals, by turning them into commands to be obeyed.)

Sharon

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 03:49 PM

"There are no aetheists in the trenches."

This is simply a lie. It makes no sense whatsoever. My father served in WWII and was a life-long Athiest. When his life was in mortal danger, he did not suddenly begin to believe in some sort of diety. My Grandfater and two of his brothers served in the trenches in WWI. All were Athiests. One of his brothers was gassed and lived the rest of his life in pain and disorientation from the effects. They all continued to be Athiests. I had a great-great grandfather who served in the Civil War and he was an Atheist too.

Fear of death does not "convert" people ot Theism - maybe some, but how strong were their beliefs to begin with? When my dad died, he believed that nothing would happen except that he would loose consiousness and his body would deteriorate (and be cremated). That would be it - he was confortable with that belief and would never have wanted "anything more". If he was wrong, so be it. I have chosen to become Pagan and Unitarian Universalist. A someone who was born and raised in an Atheist household, I am very comfortable with Atheism. My personal beliefs are that the Universe is a living entity, nearly infinately more complicated that a human, and I have respect for that but I do not worship it or any God. I do not know what will happen to me when I die, but I tend to believe that my energy (read life-force or soul if you want) will go into the cosmos and intermingle with all the other energy. When a new life is created, some of my energy will enter in that body (along with billions of other's energies). But I could be wrong - frankly I don't really care. Maybe I'll end up in Heaven, but like I tell some Christian fundamentalists - If heaven is populated with a bunch of them, I'll happily go to Hell. - now, get me my handbasket!

pax yall

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 03:13 PM

Excuse me, Carol, but I was not being intolerant that I could see. Would you like to point out what I said that was intolerant? I was simply trying to clarify the semantic obfuscations that get promulgated on this murky subject. There's a big difference between insisting on clear statements, semantically, and being intolerant. I'll te;; you what though -- if you prefer to asser that all these terms -- including "where", "is" and "God" are essentially based on personal preference and are not in fact definable on any other basis, then the discussion is a granfaloon, and a waste of time. De gustibus no disputandum, and all that. If you believe there are definitions to the question, then when you get ready to state what you think they are, maybe some real ideas can be exchanged.

A

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: GUEST,little john cameron
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 02:40 PM

Ask him yersel
http://www.reata.org/interview2.html
ljc

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 02:08 PM

And some tribes believe that simply seeing Coyote is enough to warrant a cleansing ceremony.

Steve

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 01:22 PM

I guess my whole point in my little back and forth with you, Amos, is that while you certainly have the right to your beliefs, for people whose beliefs differ from yours, it is no more palatable for you to be self-riteous and condescending about about them than it is for religious fundamentalist to cram their beliefs down the throats of those of us with different ideas.

How about a little tolerance, eh?

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 01:13 PM

Amos, Kendall...good thoughts there.

Rick - 6 figures??? Hell, I haven't got paid even 5 cents for pontificating on this forum! 2 figures would be enough to make me happy. :-)

- LH

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 12:04 PM

For the folks out in cyberspace that may not know---COYOTE is considered by many Native American tribes to be the trickster god the one who is joyfully always throwing the wrench into the gears of our best made plans.

Please see the song by the late AL GRIERSON called "Old Coyote" that I posted in the thread I titled something like The Best Song Ever Written. It really is a wonderful document.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:49 AM

Lovely description, Kendall. I hope you don't mistake what I said earlier to imply atheism on my part. I just get terribly impatient with people who think they can find the chef hiding whole in the breadbasket. The notion that space-time and light are condensates of "love" is a good one, although I think the term "love" in this context could be misleading, but never mind. I would be inclined to call it thought, life-force, or awareness, all of which are meant to capture the same thing.

I do think, and this is the paradox of the great cross-over in cosmology, that there is that within every diner who is, himself, chef of all. The great burden of human-stupid religous brickbats derives from placing a wall between the chef part and the diner part.

This includes being a diner asserting the chef is elsewhere, or being a diner denyionng chefhood anywhere, or any other panjandrum brouhaha of silly significance about it. All this silliness comes when we mistakes thoughts for direct awareness, and perception stuffed into words as substitutes for the real thing. But I ramble some....

Warmest regards,

A.

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:45 AM

There are no aetheists in the trenches

Maybe - but to not believe is to believe. And all of the above is correct.

And my dear sweet Jan says that Love is not just something - - it is what you Do!! An act of some form. And knowing how much she must do to Love me makes me a believer in that aspect of God is Love.

God, The Creator, Him, Her, He, She, whatever - all the same to me.

A couple of weekends ago Jan and I rode our bikes down to Twin Falls, about a hundred miles one way, and back. Now to do this in Idaho in the middle of November is a pure act of optimism. Especially when it is spitting rain and snow and we believe the sun is going to come out!! The sun did come out a couple of times, the most beautiful rainbow I've ever seen, and a sunset that took our breath away. Made freezing our butts off more than worth while.

That God exists I have never really doubted. And I have been pissed off enough at Him to shoot Him with my M-14 rifle one evening in Viet Nam. Talk about being human - oh well - another story for another time.

Interesting discussion.

And the real answer is in Guest's message Dead - so Guest has the body - where is He Guest?

Steve

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 09:38 AM

Amos, I enjoy this sort of give and take. You never know when you are going to learn something! I have a friend who is a real visionary, and, he explains it like this: We think of love as an emotion and that's all. That is NOT all. Love is also the fastest and most powerful force in the universe. Love had to slow down to become light, light had to slow down to become gravity. Love, the energy, the force or God, if you will is what created and maintains the universe. Man, as usual, had to "humanize" God, and there have been wars ever since between those who disagree on what it is all about. To look around you and see the miracles in this universe, and say "There is no God" is like getting up from a great banquet and declaring, "There is no chef."

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 09:29 AM

Incitement of hatred is naturally and universally a civil offense, even where not recognized as such. It is an offense against the fabric of life that makes survival and futures possible.

Incitement to religous hatred is a bit of a sticky wicket. Interesting idea though. What would be "religous hatred"'s defintion? Hatred attributed to Higher Truth. God, what malarkey!! As long as one religion or none is not specified, it is not exactly mixing state matters in with the religous ones, and in fact is blocking up the dyke between them. Which I favor .

I think it is risky, interesting, experiment in a good purpose. Hard to say how it might turn out. If it has chilling effects on free speech it will of course be bad news despite good intentions. That's the big risk.

A

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: GUEST,Bates from Birregurra
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 07:14 AM

"Down by the Barwon" !!!

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: EarlofSidcup
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 04:11 AM

Well, this has turned into an interesting discussion. I have no views myself, merely brought to wider attention a letter by somebody in The Daily Telegraph, which was actually about 'proposed legislation to make incitement to religious hatred a criminal offence'

Any views on that?

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 03:16 AM

Fifty-one [aye, fifty-one] years past September, I was struggling down a mine drift with hundreds of others to try finding a way through to a hundred and twenty-nine of our mates entombed seemingly without hope . There was a ten-inch "I"-beam halfway down that drift, bent and twisted by years of fighting the irresistable movement of Mother Earth, dark with rust and dripping foul water; in eight-inch high letters in scrawled white paint right across the width of the mine were the words "God Is Love". We got these lads out, all but thirteen. From that day to this, I pay no attention whatever to the tripe in the Old Testament, and limited attention to some of the "eyewitness" stuff in the New. That guy John the Baptist had it right though; I reckon we proved it back then--as mamy others did before and since. Boab ---and any religion which depends for its survival on threats of hellfire, or bribes of some advent to a dead boring place where you can't even play an accordion and drink guinness doesn't merit survival! Boab again.

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 01:39 AM

Art,

Coyote has been messing around here for years. I think it's because the place is called MudCAT. Coyote is a deity that could easily be offended by such a minimal slight. And if I'm wrong my Coyote have Raven strike me d

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 12:25 AM

I have heard enough silliness to last me a week. I think I will leave the joy of this thread to others.

Some people just don't know how to party ;-)

Subject: RE: Where is God?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 12:07 AM

Never had a problem with there being some form of Diety, but Oh brother do his PR people get tiresome, 'specially the six figure ones!

Rick