BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 12:00 PM

Whatever squabbles are breaking out in this thread I have still not seen anything posted in favour of fracking!

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 08:29 AM

Careful, Greg, your misogynistic side is showing, again....

Don't flatter yourself, bitch. I dislike loud-mouthed, idiotic, patronizing ignorant fools of whatever gender.

And you still know fuck-all about Native Americans - How much time, exactly, have you spent in the U.S.? Oh yes that's right, you've been playing with your imaginary "friends" in cyberspace. So you must know all there is to know.

And Russell Means, would, like many other Native Americans, consider me to be an OK person.

No, Liz, Russell would have considered you a loud-mouthed dilettante slacker; he had no use for clowns like you. And by the way, that's MR. Means to you.

Mohawk Warrior Unity Flag

Jesus wept. You really are clueless, aren't you? You're involved with the wrong group, bitch - you want to join "Assholes No More".

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 06:05 AM

You signed partitions

Well, I guess you may have done that too but I meant petitions. I suppose they were signed online as well rather than in the real world?

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 05:07 AM

No thanks, Lizzie. You accuse me of all sorts of things that are untrue. One of them is stalking you. As you know, because I have already told you, the only contact I have with you is on the Mudcat, I never have and have no intention of starting to follow you on Facebook or anywhere else for that matter.

To summarise your actions on Fracking

- You sent someone a flag
- You posted on Facebook
- You rang people
- You signed partitions

Wow.

Personally, I do not feel the need to spend time letting people know how good and green I am. I would rather do something positive and practical. I still bear the scars of those actions, financial, emotional and physical. Do you imagine for one minute that all the people at Barton Moss and Balcombe turned up in their cars or were local or were somehow well to do? Many that I met were literally laying their lives on the line in more ways that one. They did not let it worry them that they had no cars or lived too far away or had other commitments. I consider myself lucky to have met and helped a few. How about you getting off your soapbox for a while and doing something worthwhile?

DtG

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 04:39 AM

Oh, and Dave, just so's you know, there's a FB 'note' on my page entitled 'Of Chiefs & Children' read it, you might learn something, it's about the visit last week.

As to the police, I phoned over half of the main police forces in this country during the recent anti-fracking protests, to raise awareness of what Greater Manchester Police and West Sussex Police were doing in their name, asking them to wake the feck up and join WITH The People for this is their fight too, their children's future too...

Some were very receptive, angry at what the GMP, in particular were doing...tons of videos out there on Youtube about their behaviour, just google 'Fracking and Greater Manchester Police, Barton Moss' and you'll find them..

As to voting for a Party, I vote Green. The former leader of the Green Party was arrested at Balcombe last year...

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/video/2013/aug/20/caroline-lucas-protest-fracking-arrest-balcombe-video

...her son was given the now 'normal' torture treatment by the British Police, where they press their thumbs deep into the recess behind our ears, causing intense pain. This manoeuvre has been banned by many self-defence sports, as it is the nearest point of entry to the brain...You will find many photos of the British Police doing this on innocent, legal, peaceful protestors on the BIFF page, above...

Caroline, along with all those arrested with her, was found to be innocent and the judge threw these charges out of court...

The POLICE are Wasting Police Time, they are also behaving like total thugs, some of them enjoying what they do....like the one who sat on a woman, hand-cuffing her, making her stand with only her chin supporting her on a fence, as her knees slowly buckled beneath her after the shock of his actions...His sexually gratified face, which, as a woman, filled me with horror, was sent all over the world and caused outrage, for it was obvious that this 'officer' was getting far more than he'd expected that day in the way of pleasing himself...It was the most revolting and disturbing image I've seen in a long while.....Again, you'll find it on the 'BIFF!' page, mentioned above...

So, thanks for your words...and have a good day.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 04:26 AM

"Don't you DARE try to quote Russell Means to me, you silly, self-important, delusional, ignorant bitch. Stick with what you actually know, which is basically fuck all, Liz."

Careful, Greg, your misogynistic side is showing, again....

I will damn well quote Russell Means whenever I so chose, and I did NOT 'quote' him at all in my earlier post, by the way, merely used his name and told you that Russell himself was in Facebook a LOT, because he understood the power that lies inside it.

If you don't like that, tough...but that gives you NO right to call me a 'bitch'. Thanks all the same, and I make NO apology for standing up to your nastiness, your stalking of me, your constant misogynistic drivel....


From Dave (yes another of my fanclub) "I didn't see you at Barton Moss, Lizzie. You must be a lot less noticeable in real life than you are in your comfy chair. Maybe you were keeping out of the way of the police while some of us were doing something real? Were you not at Balcombe either? No. I didn't think so. Too busy making stupid little Indian flags and posting how good you are."


No, Dave, you didn't, because to get either of those places from Devon costs a fortune, (I don't drive) which I do not have and because I am a Carer, caring for Nanny who is 100 years old this coming September....There's a photo of her on my FB page if you don't believe she exists....

HOWEVER, what you DID see, were you to have even looked, that is, is Vanessa carrying the Mohawk Warrior Unity Flag (there are MANY photos of it on the 'BIFF! Britain & Ireland Frack Free' page, above, scroll down and down and you'll find it in the photos section.....

That flag was mine, sent to me by John, over in Pennsylvania, who is part of the Idle No More movement and Mohawk himself...

The Idle No More movement (look it up) is watching every move being made over here on Fracking, as they are fighting like crazy to stop it over in the USA and Canada too...

HOWEVER, I did to 12 hours of coach travel in the same day to meet with Chief Raoni and Chief Megaron in London the other day, which is a direct trip for me, not involving many changes of transport or stays overnight....

I was the one who corrected the French to English translations for those at Planete Amazone, in their letters to Prince Charles, Albert of Monaco and King Harold of Norway, the Pope also, and Sting, (the latter two NOT meeting Raoni, but the first three doing so last week), because I sit here helping many people around the world to raise awareness of what's happening to our planet....

Raoni and Megaron came out from The Amazon Rainforest to fight for their People's survival, for the survival of us all, Dave...I help them in EVERY way possible, via my Support Chief Raoni page and in helping the team at Planete Amazone too, over in Paris, whom I also got to meet last week in London....

I don't give a feck what you folks throw at me in here, for I learned long ago to Rise Above and get on with doing what I do...

And Russell Means, would, like many other Native Americans, consider me to be an OK person, seeing that I loathe so much of what The Fecking White Man has done over the centuries, were he still alive to this day...

I've encouraged many folks to buy the last book he ever wrote 'If You've Forgotten The Names of The Clouds, You've Lost Your Way' am FB friends with the man who co-wrote that with Russell and I keep Russell's words of wisdom alive on Raoni's page, on my own page too, because I respect that man hugely....

So, may I politely suggest that you, Greg, stick your head where the sun don't shine and, if you truly CARE about Russell, that you too get a FB page, as he had, and share his words out to others, because by heck, we need Russell back in this world right now!

You can even order his book here, and yes, I've put the USA link in. Read it, for you sure have lost your way, if you ask me! http://www.amazon.com/Youve-Forgotten-Names-Clouds-Lost-ebook/dp/B007V91ENK


Oh, and for those interested, here is a petition against the Infrastructure Bill which will remove our Ancient Laws of Trespass and allow this evil, oligarchic government to sell of ANY public land they so choose and, of course, to frack under YOUR home without even telling you, should their pals in The Fracking Mafia, so desire to do so.

INFRACSTRUCTURE BILL PETITION

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 03:12 PM

either by turning up at Protests, as they have been doing up at Balcombe and Barton Moss in the past,

I didn't see you at Barton Moss, Lizzie. You must be a lot less noticeable in real life than you are in your comfy chair. Maybe you were keeping out of the way of the police while some of us were doing something real? Were you not at Balcombe either? No. I didn't think so. Too busy making stupid little Indian flags and posting how good you are.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 01:58 PM

because you obviously know something the rest of us don't...

Some fucking hope, Musket. Liz just PRETENDS to know, and fellow idiots take her at her word.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 01:55 PM

Of course, Greg, your 'friend', Russell Means...Shame you didn't listen to him a little deeper, eh?


Don't you DARE try to quote Russell Means to me, you silly, self-important, delusional, ignorant bitch. Stick with what you actually know, which is basically fuck all, Liz.

Just keep playing in cyberspace and pretending to yourself and others that you're actually accomplishing something. Its a lot safer than actually being in the trenches.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 11:11 AM

If you want to turn the world round, vote for a party with your mindset at the next election. Do your petitions, stand passively to let people know your objection.

In the meantime, wasting police time wastes my taxes and I don't pay the police to investigate spurious fettering by organised groups, I'd rather they spend their time catching criminals, thank you.

After all your bluster, hidden in the diatribe, are valid discussion points regarding ecology and impact. If you want to influence, stick to them. Your credibility in the eyes of those you seek to influence may increase.

I wish reality had your polarised confidence though, because you obviously know something the rest of us don't... And that isn't a good start if you want to get your message over to sophisticated people, as most are, especially in Sussex, where the price of onyx coffee tables trumps discussion on wildlife.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 11:00 AM

I do apologize, Greg and Musket....

I'll put it in words which are a little easier for you to understand...

You see, WORD goes OUT on Facebook, and The Anti-Fracking Protestors then MOBILIZE themselves, either by turning up at Protests, as they have been doing up at Balcombe and Barton Moss in the past, or by getting MASSES of people to sign petitions, write in to Councils, phone, send a letter, email, etc..Phone Radio and TV stations too, often with people taking PART in these programmes themselves.

There we are....

Easy Peasy to get the gist of what Facebook is used for by the many intelligent and passionate people now working hard to turn the world around...

Of course, Greg, your 'friend', Russell Means, also had the intelligence to understand the power of Facebook, as does John Trudell too, which is why Russell used it a LOT whilst he was alive...

Shame you didn't listen to him a little deeper, eh?

Do have a nice day, boys.....

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 09:56 AM

And THIS, Greg, old chum, IS the POWER which lies within Facebook, because so MANY Good Men & Women True lie within Facebook, you see....all working their butts off 24/7

Gee, you'd think that with all that clicking and typing 24/7 their butts would cramp up, Liz.

Butt then its a lot easier than getting their butts up from behind their computer screens & getting out into the real physical world and actually accomplishing something instead of engaging in techno-masturbation.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 09:45 AM

From Greg: >>"Easy peasy. Get on FarceBook & click away. Problem solved."<<

Sez Liz: "Actually, for once, Greg, you're right".

Now that has to win a prize for the most fatuous and idiotic statement of the year & possibly the decade.

Atta girl, Liz!

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 05:24 AM

I didn't read all the drivel, but the bit at the end saying that men and women lie within Facebook struck a chord...

Apparently, nobody dismisses Lizzie Cornish because she is offensive but because we are men.

Get a fucking life.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 04:30 AM

From the Facebook page of 'BIFF! Britain & Ireland Frack Free', today, as they seek to frack in our South Downs National Park.......

"THE TIME TO ACT IS NOW! ANYONE CAN OBJECT.
PLEASE DO NOT LEAVE IT TO EVERYONE ELSE
THE DEADLINE IS: THIS FRIDAY- JUNE 20TH, 2014

PROPOSED OIL&GAS EXPLORATION at KIRDFORD/WISBOROUGH GREEN

A small company Celtique Energie (CE) has applied to construct an Exploratory Oil/gas well 0.8 miles from the village of Wisborough Green on the boundaries of the Kirdford and Wisborough Green parishes.

This information is a guide about how to object to that planning application, produced by Keep Kirdford Wisborough Green (KKWG). Villagers and those who know the area and value it are very concerned about it.

IF you share these concerns it is important to use your voice now. Every objection counts, and the more objections sent in, the better.

1. You can object online or by writing to WSCC Planning, County Hall, Chichester, W Sussex PO19 1RH quoting the Reference No:
WSCC/083/13/KD, LAND SOUTH OF BOXAL BRIDGE, WISBOROUGH GREEN, You can read the application at WSCC Planning applications

2. It is important that each objection is presented in your own words. Photocopied or template responses may be ignored.

3. Every adult can object as can friends and family who know the area.

4. Objections should be specifically made about this site. General concerns about issues such as government energy policy will be ignored.

5. Please DO NOT object on the grounds of the possible future use of "fracking" or on any adverse impact on house prices – these are NOT valid reasons to object and your letter will be dismissed.

6. Your objection can be as long or as short as you like.
The following pages contain information to help you to decide whether or not to object, and the best way to do it.
DON'T DELAY, OBJECT TODAY

WHY BE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS?

FRACKING is a way of extracting natural gas or oil beneath our feet by pumping a cocktail of chemicals plus water and sand at high pressure to crack open shale rock under the ground. The technology is new and untested in the UK and the energy produced is referred to as unconventional gas.

The GEOLOGY of an area needs to have no faults or the materials moving up and down the well could appear in unexpected places and risk contaminating the air and water. The geology under the Weald is riddled with fissures and faults according to Professor of Geology, David Smythe, is thus entirely unsuitable.

Planning permission is needed in the first place for drilling an EXPLORATION WELL. This is STAGE 1. If oil or gas is found, further permission is needed for a 2nd STAGE EXPLOITATION WELL. This could then lead to a site developing into a WELLPAD covering 2hs (the size of a football pitch) which could, in turn, contain up to 10 wells. And then, by using underground directional drilling, this could result in up to 100 horizontal drill paths for any one unconventional gas drilling wellpad above ground.

The cumulative impact of many wells would thus be much higher than that for that an individual well.

WATER: A large amount of water is required at the EXPLOITATION stage – up to 5 million gallons per well or more, hence 50 million gallons for one wellpad containing 10 wells. Sussex is an area of extreme water shortage.

POLLUTION DANGERS: While some 30-70% of the water used remains under-ground, the flowback waste water which emerges from the well is contaminated, needs to be cleaned and disposed of. There is a danger of polluting the water aquifer both from the fracking fluid and from toxic and radioactive material originating under-ground (known as NORM, Naturally Occurring Radioactive Material).

TRANSPORT: Each well, if was to be Exploited, would, according to an independent oil executive, Peter Carson, require 400 tankers to transport the amount of water needed. Thus a well pad would need a minimum of 4,000 tanker trips.

LOCAL COMMUNITY: This proposed development would lead to the industrialisation of a rural area, to heavy transport using unsuitable lanes and roads and risks to the environment of noise, vibration and pollution and disruption lasting years.

WILDLIFE AND LANDSCAPE: this area of the Weald is specially protected in view of its sensitive landscape, habitats and species. In particular, very rare internationally important bats use the site at Kirdford near Boxal Bridge to forage for food. Any light, noise or vibration would cause disturbance to these mammals and would be considered as illegal under the European Union Habitats Directive.

DARK SKIES: this is one of the few areas in the UK where the stars can clearly be seen and the South Downs National Park wants to get the area designated as a Dark Skies Reserve.

HOW BEST TO OBJECT TO THIS APPLICATION

Should you wish to object we suggest you might want to use some of the following points or those mentioned opposite – they have been chosen to be relevant to the planning rules rather than based on wider concerns:

DO NOT MENTION FRACKING – ONLY USE THE TERM "DRILLING"

The proposed site on land to the south of Boxal Bridge is completely inappropriate:
• It is less than 500ms from the SDNP and within the CDC buffer zone of 7 kms
• Is adjacent to a Sussex Wildlife Trust reserve at Northup Copse
• Lies within the specially protected landscape of the Low Weald
• Is underlain by a geology which is very faulted and thus unsuitable
• Lies on and is adjacent to areas used by the very rare Barbastelle and Bechstein bats which are internationally important species
• Will force large volumes of Heavy Goods Vehicles through the village
• Will involve the prevention of parking round the Green (proposed by the company)
• Is on an area which was flooded at Christmas and can only be accessed by lanes which themselves were flooded
• Will involve the use of large amounts of clean water in a water-stressed area and will leave unknown amounts of materials within the ground
• Will bring back to the surface liquids including Naturally Occurring Radioactive Materials (NORM) which would require particularly special attention.
Overall Costs and Benefits
• This is an application for an Exploratory well. However, it is clear from company information supplied to their investors that the ultimate goal is to move to full production. They emphasise the need for Oil&Gas and possible benefits from production whilst, at the same time, dismissing (wishing to ignore) the adverse impacts of Exploration/Exploitation as unimportant because it is "only temporary".
BUT a recent report (BGS, May 23rd) states there is NO Gas under our area.
Traffic, Access and Road Safety
• Kirdford Road is a winding lane with several pinch points that is structurally unsuitable (in layout and in load-bearing strength – witness Boxal Bridge) for large vehicles and heavy loads.
• The extra traffic will generate significant air and noise pollution as well as vibration.
• There is no pavement but the lane does form a link to the village.
• The road which would be used does not provide a turning circle at the cross roads – the traffic would need to cross onto the wrong side of the carriageway.
• The proposed route would pass the Green, the playground, the Pubs and their open views – areas which many people use regularly and which provide recreation and economic support for villagers and visitors.
Noise, Light and Visual impact
• This area is one of the most tranquil in the county – it is completely dark and quiet at night. It is contained within an area the South Downs National Park wishes to see included in its Dark Skies Reserve.
Air Quality
• Emissions from HGVs and large static diesel engines will create problems for those living nearby. In US and Australia the nearest residential building to such drills must be a minimum of 1500 ms away.
Water
• Even during Exploration there are risks that the surface water could become contaminated on site or on the road. Potentially contaminated drilling mud and drill cuttings will have to be transported out by road. It the well leaks at some point it provides another potential source of pollution.

Technical consequences
• According to figures supplied by the Oil/Gas industry 6% of all boreholes developed in the UK leak from the start and 50% leak within 30 years. By the end of a rig's lifetime they all leak. This enables the fluid put down the well to come back and to get into places this type of fluid should not be found ie acid; chemicals or sand

Contingency plans – what if something goes wrong?
• Guess who pays?
• Celtique Energie employs less than 30 employees. Given the nature of the work and their record to date we would question CE's ability to exercise proper oversight.
• Once they locate any supply of Oil/Gas under our feet they will sell on the site to larger concerns such as their partner, Magellan.
• Assertions (rather than evidence) are regularly made about the UK regulatory framework and its ability to oversee the processes involved. It is fragmented and the responsibilities are shared out. When noise limits were exceeded at Balcombe local people complained but nothing happened. A local resident had to buy equipment and measure the sound levels before anything got done to keep them in line with the agreed condition and get the unreasonable level of sound reduced.

ANYTHING ELSE? Please contact us as below.

Repeatedly assertions are made about the importance and value of UK energy resources and their extraction including the newly developed techniques for obtaining shale gas and oil. While we agree that the UK uses a lot of energy and needs to think about the future….what we have looked for in connection with this application is the current state of knowledge and independent EVIDENCE which has been confirmed by other reports and that EVIDENCE shows how damaging the process would be.

STOP PRESS

Celtique Energie, applied to do the same at Fernhurst in the South Downs National Park (SDNP) and have had to supply extra information. 30 new documents are now available on the SDNP website for Fernhurst with a closing date for comments of May 27th, 2014 but the Park is accepting any information sent before their decision meeting on July 10th. Reference No: SDNP/13/05896/CM; 9 Acre Copse

Look on these websites for help and guidance:
Frack Free Fernhurst: www.frackfreefernhurst.com/
South Downs National Park www.southdowns.gov.uk/planning/search


PLEASE OPPOSE BOTH of these APPLICATIONS
JOIN KKWG and help safeguard our area, its people and its wildlife.
www.No-drilling.co.uk

'BIFF! Britain & Ireland Frack Free' - 'Frack Free Fernhurst' post which is, at present, the top post on this page


And THIS, Greg, old chum, IS the POWER which lies within Facebook, because so MANY Good Men & Women True lie within Facebook, you see....all working their butts off 24/7, to create a better world, by linking people together, day by day, step by step...

Thank you

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 04:07 AM

>>>"So how do we effectively oppose fracking then, Lizzie?"<<<

From Greg? >>"Easy peasy. Get on FarceBook & click away. Problem solved."<<

Actually, for once, Greg, you're right. There is a massive collection of people from all around the world on FB now who can put out urgent calls for help from local people, which are acted upon immediately....As soon as the call goes out "Boots on ground, please, here!"...the Good Men & Women True are off and running there as fast as they can get there...

From there, they put everything that is happening on to Facebook, in either 'live' video coverage, or Youtube videos shortly after the problems have happened....

We can instantly contact the local police forces too, as we did with Greater Manchester Police and West Sussex, putting out numbers for people to call, to complain about the police action, every call having to be investigated and monitored and replied to.

The gathering of evidence is now instantaneous and is being shared around the world, not just from this country, but from the Fracking protests in Australia, America, Canada, Romania etc...etc..etc..


As to claiming to know MORE than others, I've never made that claim, Musket, you have, in your never-ending put-downs of me.

Of course, in a more normal site you would get the occasional "Thanks for those links, Lizzie" (or the name of whoever else is putting them up, but I forget at times, what a terribly negative place this can be, made up, sadly, in the main, it seems to me, of people who regard Mudcat as their own little private 'club' and anyone who dares to enter, whom they choose to dislike is made to face endless crappy posts about their intelligence or their personality...

Also, most of the folks who do this to me are men, and I guess they struggle at times with a woman who not only has a modicum of intellgence, but who refuses to let The Bastards silence here, even when they send out for re-inforcements, via their PMs or emails...

"The Witch is back, hurry over and slam her intelligence!!"

I put the links there, made by OTHERS, not me, who know more about fracking and the folks involved in it, in the UK (and other countries too) than ANY of you here in this site, because THEY are the amazing people being arrested, abused by our police force, abused by other police officers around the world, talking with and to the politicians, journalists etc...who have learned about fracking inside out and upside down and back to front, some being from the oil industry themselves who have worked alongside these corrupt bastards, leaving because they could take no more of the evil that they are doing......

If you don't want to open those links, fair enough...

BUT, when over 60% of the UK HAS been fractured to pieces, methane left to rise up through people's house, no legal comeback for them in ANY way at all, for all our ancient Laws of Trespass have been removed, don't come moaning to me.....

Capiche?

EXCELLENT!!


And now, I'll leave you to your MIsogynistic Little Boys Club...

Have a good day y'all....

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 10:28 PM

The Alaskan earthquakes, no. Alaska is one of areas of great seismic activity on the Ring of Fire. However there are daily earthquakes in the fracking areas in and around Oklahoma, Arkansas, and up through the Dakotas where there had been none before--these are thought to have been caused by the massive amounts of water used in fracking that are subsequently pumped back into the ground, for lack of anywhere else to dispose of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 05:52 PM

Those earthquakes in Alaska - anything to do with fracking?

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Musket
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 09:57 AM

Try setting fire to it, that'll tell you whether it is methane. When I was in Azerbaijan a few years ago, they had a burning hillside that was quite impressive. Decided it was safer to do that than let it go, although why I don't know. Methane rises. They do have a mud field with bubbling escapes that looks spooky (named Clanger Land by the nearby BP people) but they don't set fire to that.

I also recall from the same visit a flame that had been from such natural sources had a shrine built around it in the middle ages and was an everlasting flame etc, (many shi'ite sects grew from fire worshippers) and this was OK till about fifty years ago, when the soviets started fracking, (or very similar) in nearby fields, causing the everlasting fire to extinguish.

When we visited it, they turn the gas on (via a metered pipe) for visitors. I took more photos of the pipe and meter than the medieval shrine if truth be known. Appealed to my sense of humour.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 09:35 AM

On a recentCanadian report on health related to fracking:

Little info on fracking's long-term health impact: N.S. public health expert
SELENA ROSS, June 16, 2014 -

One of Nova Scotia's top public health experts says there's a dearth of information about how fracking affects human health, especially far into the future.

However, after reviewing what evidence there is, Dr. Frank Atherton believes the known hazards can be minimized with careful planning.

"I think there are risks to health — there are some real risks to health and some theoretical risks to health," he said in an interview. "But they are manageable, as they are manageable for any other industry in the short term.

"I am worried about the long term, and there are sometimes very long-term consequences which are just not known yet."

Atherton, who also teaches at Dalhousie, is the province's deputy chief medical officer of heealth but is serving independently on the review panel looking into the controversial method of oil and gas extraction. His report was not written on the province's behalf.

The paper, released Monday night, draws on 37 reports and studies, including ones by the chief medical officer of New Brunswick, Public Health England and the European Parliament.

For people living close to fracking wells, health risks include respiratory problems, exposure to toxins and even the stress and raised blood pressure that people could suffer from weeks of noisy drilling.

Atherton included specific recommendations in his report, one of which is to require wells to be a certain distance from people's homes. About half of Nova Scotians live in rural areas, a higher proportion than many places, he said.

Many of Atherton's recommendations would increase the province's knowledge of the industry.

One suggestion was to require fracking companies to release information about the chemicals used in their fracking fluids. A Health Canada report compiled 750 chemical components used in the industry from 2005 to 2009, some of which can be found in common household products.

However, companies have sometimes insisted on keeping chemical ingredient lists private for proprietary reasons.

A third recommendation was simply to increase monitoring of health and environmental effects, if Nova Scotia does open the door to fracking, in order to create better data.

"There are places, of course, where hydraulic fracturing is taking place without those mitigation measures in place, like in the States," Atherton said. "Now, can you document actual harm to individuals? Well, you can't really, because you can only go by anecdotes.

"Even if those mitigations were not in place (elsewhere), you can't put your hand on your heart and say there will definitely be harm to people. But what you can say is that if those mitigations are in place, then the risk of harm is reduced, and that's what the public health approach is trying to do."

Atherton said that certain groups, including children, pregnant women, the elderly and people with respiratory illnesses, could be particularly vulnerable to various health risks.

The respiratory danger comes from increased ozone levels that may accompany large-scale fracking industries, according to the report.

Toxin exposure could come in many forms, including from groundwater contamination or as a result of spills or accidents, or from local air pollution.

"Although the amounts of contaminants in the air may be within safety standards, these standards are often constructed to allow for single-dose exposures on an adult rather than for chronic, long-term exposure to people who work or live around natural gas installations," Atherton wrote.

He also pointed to a very small increased risk of cancer, a danger that has been modelled rather than proven with case studies.

A bigger risk would be to workers, but that's true for many industries, he said.

There could also be health benefits to fracking in Nova Scotia, especially bringing more money to rural economies, he wrote. Income is closely linked to health, which he defined as being "a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."

He also compared the fracking industry with other energy industries, such as coal and wind power, which bring their own health considerations.

He said he was surprised to find that it's unclear whether extraction and use of fracked gas, overall, is less polluting than using conventional oil and coal energy.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 07:00 PM

One coal seam is near the surface close to our house. The data recorded from our water borehole gives it as 43 feet down and 3 feet thick with shale layers above.
This is on a hillside and close to the house. There have been sink holes further down the hill between 4 and 10 feet deep where the old workings have collapsed, the seam being closer to the surface.
There is a recent collapse in the next field uphill of where the track to our house runs, at a level that seems to indicate that the seam is only a couple of feet below the surface and the other day I noticed bubbles appearing in a puddle on the track so presumably we have methane escaping to the air already!
Our soil is about 6" to 15" thick with clay beneath, about 6" of pure clay and then with increasing amounts of stone and grit included followed by rocks.
I should probably report the gas bubbles to the Coal Authority.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Musket
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 04:39 PM

I don't remember much about the geology side of coal mining, as I was a sparky. However, I do know that if there are impervious strata layers above a coal seam, you should be ok.

There is a wetlands bird sanctuary at Clumber Park near Worksop that never existed till we mined under it.

And drained the lake accidentally for good measure.

Considering we were in the Parkgate seam (3,000 ft below) it was quite impressive as subsidence goes.

But no methane escape.

I don't know how relevant this is, but fracking is all about releasing methane rather than containing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 01:36 PM

Just noticed that a condition for installing a new wind turbine base on top of the hill near us states that the excavation must not breach the coal seam beneath as this would allow the escape of coal bed methane. Now this is not the layer of rock that the frackers are aiming for, this is much nearer the surface. So how do they intend to circumvent that particular rule if they drill here?

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 08:44 AM

So how do we effectively oppose fracking then, Lizzie?

Easy peasy. Get on FarceBook & click away. Problem solved.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Musket
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 06:46 AM

I'd go back a step and ask why rather than how? The engineering and geology has been lost in the fog of commercial and political intrigue and conspiracy theory.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 06:44 AM

For those not in the USA, and wondering wtf is the halliburton loophole, and what does it have to do with fracking in my country, the link below provides a good, balanced summary....btw,.it is USA leglislation exempting fracking from the USA federal safe water act. It is a good example of politicians putting personal and economic interests ahead of environmental interests. There have been attempts to rectify the loophole, through legislative changes. The legislation has no influence beyond the USA.

halliburton loophole 

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 05:57 AM

So how do we effectively oppose fracking then, Lizzie?

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Musket
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 05:17 AM

It's the "know more than any of us" that ensures normal people don't bother reading anything else you have written above Lizzie.

The debate needs facts, not suppressive arrogance.

If an argument needs such tactics, it usually has no persuasive argument to offer, otherwise they would be put forward objectively and invite challenge.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 05:04 AM

Nope, I put those links in..and the other info, so that you guys could find out more from the very people who know more than any of us, and who are out there on the ground, in front of the fracking lorries, at the drilling sites, talking to MPs, on TV and Radio, in a VERY scientific way, which you'll all love....

However, rather than follow the links, you've fallen down your own Fracking Pit of Toxicity in rabbitting on about me...as ever....

New scientific study, I'd blue clicky it, but I really can't be arsed, as you won't look at it anyway...It's about the future, your CHILDREN'S future, when The Methane continues to rise and rise and rise up from the abandoned fracking wells...

http://thetyee.ca/News/2014/06/14/Oil-Wells-Spout-Methane/

Yes, fracking kills. Google for all the animals and fish, cats and dogs who've already become so sick, or died..and google 'the list of the harmed', as I suggested...

OR, just carry on with the Lizzie Bashing if you so choose...

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 03:09 AM

I think that in the UK we are dealing with a population that has little knowledge of fracking and therefore most people have no opinion as yet. When speaking to friends and acquaintances I find that most of them know very little about it or have not heard of it. In view of the strength of feeling of those opposed to it there seems to be sparse attention paid by the media.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 03:43 PM

Factors to consider:
-Who to trust. We see criminal trials where science testimony experts emerge, whose creditionals seem impecible, but tgey paint completely different stories. Taken this intk consideration, why should one put viewpoints, or so-called research opinion from an "expert" (with a vested interest) from either side of an issue on a higher platform? I normally seek information from neutral sources, unattached from either side of an issue-though this is becoming harder to find.

-Protests, alone, (in different firmats) do a good job of drawing attention to an issue-but, little to convert those not already converted. In fact, some protests may have the opposite impact than intended, turning people off on an isdue.

-What is the alternative? People are attached to their incomes and lifestyles, change normallt is resisted, without reasonable alternatives. Some alternatives may be more harmful, economic and environmentally, than those being protested. What seems to be the lack of concern for the environments/economies in other locals may also be a turn off. Some protesters drive to protests in un-needed gas guzzling trucks/SUVs, with little concern for environments where the fuel they "guzzle" comes from.

-Unproven fear tactics are a turn off. It takes no time to spot these scar tactics being used to support a cause. Often, these are "sketchy", and not based on the entire truth, and not supported by valid research and reported in mainstream media.

-Conspiracies. No need to say much more on this one. Quite often, this involves linking the dots between unrelated situations to prove a point. Many people have a gut feeling that something is "amiss" , but fail to spot the lapse in logical reasoning.



-

-

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 03:08 PM

You still don't get it, do you, gnu? You see, what I object to is that you're both indulging in a: "I'm much, much, much more concerned than you are!!" competition. Lizzie is indulging in one of her usual verbose tirades, in which she seeks to demonstrate that she's very, very, VERY much more concerned than anyone else whilst you're determined to show that you've got much, much, much bigger 'research cojones' than anyone else. But I contend that if you're both as concerned as you say you are, you would both be coming up with effective strategies to oppose fracking - and you would be sharing those strategies with other concerned people.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 02:05 PM

" would be no more convinced by your hysterically verbose tirade than I was by gnu's (unsummarised) research (that would take 2 months to read)..."

There ya go. Haven't got the time to edify yourself so ya don't bother. Yeah, hissy fit indeed. That's the reason for the hissy fit and the scornful remarks. Apparently, even these do not work.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 09:36 AM

I have come to know a GREAT deal about Fracking

Ah, but then, Liz, you know everything about everything. Why don't you go back to clicking multiple "Likes" on FarceBook which will doubtless save the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 09:28 AM

So, Lizzie, "fracking kills" does it. At the outset, I should say that, if I was a disinterested observer, I would be no more convinced by your hysterically verbose tirade than I was by gnu's (unsummarised) research (that would take 2 months to read)and his scornful insults.

But let's say that you're right and you've uncovered a dastardly plot to poison the world. I assume that you've organised some sort of campaign against it, have you? And if so, how much progress have you made so far and can you let us know what works and what doesn't work? You still seem to be employing the hysterically verbose tirade - so, perhaps, in spite of my misgivings, you find that that tactic does work, do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Musket
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 08:20 AM

I don't dislike you. I don't have any view of you. Your posts on the other hand don't sit well in intelligent debate.

I just want to discuss the pros and cons of fracking as per the op, and your diatribe brings nothing material to the conversation. The op has concerns, brought up with his MP and we are lacking the view of the contractors. I am interested as to why.

It's important that this potential source of energy is debated objectively because if we use it and regret it, or not use it when it us safe to use, we are bloody fools either way, and silly "us & them" distractions are irrelevant. This is too important to be treated as a political soap opera.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 08:03 AM

Please, do NOt patronize me. I have come to know a GREAT deal about Fracking from people who know far more about it than you do, Musket, who live with it every single day too...

Already they have dumped untreated radio-active fracking waste in the Manchester Shipping Canal...I believe I forgot to mention that little gem, earlier..They also spray it across roads, of course, and the roads crack apart from the weight of their lorries...

But hey, let's let Cameron continue to bribe the Councils of England with £MILLIONS being given to them if they agree to fracking in their area..

Odd that he's found the money...in this 'Age Of Austerity'
Oh, hang on a mo, no doubt his Fracking Buddies put it forward for him...

IF you have a problem with me, send me a PM and keep your personal dislike of me off the thread. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Musket
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 07:48 AM

Who rattled her cage?

This thread had the potential, Gnu's hissy fit apart, of being a serious consideration of the topic. Then Lizzie woke up with wild accusations that have no bearing on the pros and cons of exploring this energy source.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 07:20 AM

Vanessa Vine - Facebook page

Please check out the 'photos' page in here, brilliant photolinks to share out!

BIFF! Britain & Ireland Frack Free - Facebook page

Fracking Hell - Facebook page


EVERYTHING you need to know about Fracking and the Mafiosa behind it. Ian used to be in the Oil Industry so he knows what he's talking about. 3 hours long, but worth every minute. Ian now attends as many Anti-Fracking Protests as he can in the UK, making many videos of the shocking police brutality against peaceful, legal demonstrators.
FRACKtured Future - Youtube video by Ian R Crane

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 07:13 AM

They don't speak because there is no need. They control the governments..

Our Ancient Laws of Trespass are about to be changed if Cameron gets his way..and this was mentioned in the Queen's Speech last week. If your house is in their way, they will simply frack beneath it, not tell you, and you will have no legal rights to stop them. Your house price will plummet, you will get all sorts of terrible chemicals floating up through your ground and the rest....is history...

Google 'The List Of The Harmed' to see what has happened to many people in Pennsylvania.

Fracking kills. It has already killed many fish and animals and is making many humans very, very sick.

It poisons our Water Aquifers around the world and we have no idea how long these will take to recover, if they EVER will....

Then, there are the earthquakes of course...one already having happened the first time they fracked, just outside Blackpool...

If you need to know more, then go to Vanessa Vine's Facebook page...also the 'BIFF! Britain & Ireland Frack Free' FB page and the 'Fracking Hell' FB page too, to be kept right up to date on what is happening in the UK.

Vanessa is doing amazing things raising awareness...and the beautiful Mohawk Warrior Unity Flag she flies at many of the anti-fracking protests, was sent to me via John, (part Mohawk), from Pennsylvania who is a part of the Idle No More movement, which again, can be googled.

That flag, which is flown at many Idle No More protests in Canada and the USA is now Vanessa's, as I gave it to her on the understanding she took it out there and spread the story of Idle No More and the huge part THEY are playing in standing up against Fracking in every way they can.

It is the fracking industry, Cuadrilla's CEO, Frances Egan, who has demanded that either the fracking laws are made easier in this country, (thus, the Trespass Laws are being changed), or, he will pull out.

Lord Browne, who is advising this government on fracking and our energy policy, owns 30% of Cuadrilla...

George Osborne's father-in-law is in the fracking industry and is the man who suggested they frack in 'the wasteland of the North'

Join the dots....it all leads back to The Fracking Mafia who are ultra powerful and truly pissed off with Vanessa and all her Anti-Fracking friends who are causing chaos by walking, slowly, in front of every fracking lorry they can find...Their protests at Balcombe, last Summer, and Barton Moss in Salford, earlier this year, were amazing...Almost every arrest made by the Corporate Police Officers was thrown out of court...

The Fracksters are TRULY pissed off with what's going on..and Greenpeace 'fracked' Cameron's country cottage during the day of the Queen's speech, in a bloody wonderful action which raised a lot of awareness....

The only ones who can stop fracking in this country are The People themselves, so please, JOIN THEM and do NOT be Derelict In YOUR Duty any longer, towards the legacy of your Children's Future, or in being a Caretaker for Mother Earth...

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 14 Jun 14 - 04:49 PM

I forgot to mention that we had an observer in with us (to which we gave consent) from the BBC, looking at the possibility of making some sort of documentary about MPs surgeries. It won't feature us as it's at an early stage of planning but could make an interesting program.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 14 Jun 14 - 04:39 PM

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and interest.
So, we went to see our MP on Friday and he did seem genuinely concerned by what we had to say, particularly when we pointed out that his own house was more likely to be fracked under than ours.
We took along a copy of the local geological map and being a man of some intelligence he was able to follow our arguments about the complicated sequence of faulting in the rocks beneath our area and how this created a multitude of possible leakage lines for fracking pollutants and gas losses. We had previously sent him some information about our concerns and he appeared to have taken at least some of it in.
He was not going to make a commitment to anything until the wording of the bill to change the trespass law is finalised but he said that this is the first issue in which he feels that he must put the needs of his constituency above the Conservative party line.
We left him with a letter to reply to once he has had time to look at other information that we gave him.
He did seem shocked that the fracking companies are not turning up when they have said that they would and suggested looking at ways to arrange meetings with selected representatives of concerned groups so that they cannot back out on the grounds of having to deal with "extremists". He may be right in guessing that this is the reason for their non-appearance.
When we get a reply to our letter I will post the answers here, I hope that enjoys the research that he will need to do.
He is going to consult with other Lancashire MPs so if you live in Lancashire go and meet with your MP.
In fact wherever you live go and see your MP, Congressman, or whatever representative you have and also the candidates for the realistic opposition parties.
Good luck!

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 14 Jun 14 - 11:46 AM

I suspect that Mr. Surette has valid points. My observation is that the same people who rant about fracking are the same people who rant about wind farms and tidal power. There seem to be people who just don't get the fact that supplies of fossil fuels are finite and that we need to put solar panels and wind farms everywhere. And, oh yes, we need to stop driving everywhere and allowing the building of subdivisions where you can't but a litre of milk.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Jun 14 - 11:15 AM

An interesting perspective on fracking. (I cut and paste, as it may be complex to access tgrough a link):

Ralph SURETTE: Fracking's magic-bullet moment fading fast - freelance journalist, Ralph Surette, Chronicle Herald, Nova Scotia, Canada, June 13, 2014

I was cruising the Internet a couple of weeks ago when this headline in the Los Angeles Times made my eyes pop: "U.S. officials cut estimate of recoverable Monterey shale oil by 96 per cent."

Ninety six per cent! Since the Monterey formation accounts for two-thirds of the supposed reserves available for fracking that would make the U.S. not only energy independent but a powerhouse exporter to the world, this was a big bubble bursting. Amazing that you haven't heard of it, but such is the tenacity of the world's built-in resistance to energy reality.

There have been other such downgrades from overblown claims, for both oil and gas, enough that that the Paris-based International Energy Agency, which in 2012 declared that the U.S. would overtake Saudi Arabia in oil production by 2020, has admitted that it, too, was fooled. Its prognosis now: the U.S. will import more from Saudi Arabia by 2020 as the fracking boom peaks and declines. So much for the mythical "100-year supply," thanks to fracking.

In Nova Scotia as elsewhere, as we face vital energy and related economic decisions at every turn, it's essential that we keep this big-picture stuff in mind.

For one thing, our own fracking debate has echoes of Monterey. A report of the review panel on fracking said 17 trillion to 69 trillion cubic feet of natural gas is available in the Kennetcook-

Windsor formation, while a retired government geologist calls this bunk and puts it at a dribble. In the ample history of exaggerated petroleum estimates — where a gold-rush mentality is needed to raise investment money — it's amazing how often independent geologists have turned out to be right in questioning the big numbers.

Meanwhile, a business consortium is looking for supply to justify building an $8.3-billion liquefied natural gas terminal in Guysborough County.

Don't count on that happening. As gas replaces oil and coal, North America could end up having little to export.

And the story doesn't end there. You'd think that if oil is in ever shortening supply, the price would rise even more, justifying more exploration. At least, that's what's endlessly preached by the industry-funded think tanks.

But several other things are happening. One is that with no more easy stuff to find, exploring and developing new reserves — tar sands, the deep ocean, fracking — are becoming hideously expensive, and oil companies are cutting back, including some recently in the tar sands.

This raises my own niggling question if we ever take to fracking in Nova Scotia: far from bringing us prosperity, we might end up subsidizing it, seeing that we have a notorious fondness for white elephants thinly disguised as soaring eagles.

Indeed, the amount of investment now needed to develop new oil and gas just to keep up with declining conventional reserves is, by some accounts, straining the world financial system. In other words, we can't afford it anymore.

Also happening is that alternatives, efficiencies and conservation are really taking off worldwide. This is especially so in the world's sun belt where solar electricity is now competitive without subsidy, and as grid improvements and storage techniques continue developing.

According to some analysts, increasingly the issue is no longer "environmentalists vs. business" but "business vs. business" as alternative energy businesses take on the tottering empires of coal and oil.

And both the United States and China are now clamping down on pollution, especially from coal, leaving reactionary oddballs Stephen Harper and his buddy, Tony Abbott of Australia, virtually alone to make the argument that pollution trumps everything because it pays, meanwhile laughably claiming that they're leaders in controlling greenhouse gases. As a piece in The Australian, Australia's national newspaper, proclaimed regarding Abbott's current visit to Canada: "Harper and Abbott: two fossils fooling no one."

California is a leader in alternate energy. The promise of endless riches from the Monterey shale was seductive, however, starting a tormented debate about whether that commitment would waver in favour of the easy life with abundant oil, pollution or not.

The message of the downgrade — the oil is there in the deep earth, but in jumbled rocks impossible to extract with today's technology — is that there's no easy fossil-fuel route out of the energy crunch, and even if there seems to be one, it's at the cost of ignoring climate degradation.

Something to take away here in Nova Scotia, if we get tempted by magical thinking, which we always are. The chastened IEA could only call for a renewed and urgent commitment to alternatives, efficiency and conservation. That is the reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 14 Jun 14 - 05:09 AM

Reality is when polarised submissions by the likes of gnu are compared to the information out there that fracking is safe and a consensus is reached.

To say fracking kills is irresponsible nonsense. Eating cornflakes kills if you choke on them. When I worked down the pit, society accepted that the risk of subsidence was outweighed by the need for coal. The risks from deep mining are far higher than from fracking by incidence alone.

The question isn't whether fracking kills. The question is a balance of environmental risk, NIMBY and our reliance on fossil fuels long term and independence from other countries short term. If Norway got pissed off, you may as well use your gas oven to keep your bread fresh and away from your worktop.

If gnu took so long researching, how long till he presents a balanced view?

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 14 Jun 14 - 02:13 AM

If it would take me, or anyone else, 2 months to read your research, gnu, then it's useless. Do you think your local politician, let alone an ordinary member of your community, is going to take a two month vacation just so they can read your findings? If the research has led you to believe that "fracking kills" then you have a duty to use that knowledge protect your community. But if you scream and shout at people they are not going to listen to you and all of that research will be a wasted effort.

By the way, you personally haven't persuaded me that "fracking kills" (although other stuff that I've read suggests a strong possibility that it's very dangerous). All you've done is persuaded me that you're someone who can't control and direct his anger and is probably to be avoided. So I think I'll "piss off".

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Jun 14 - 07:09 PM

Note that I did not state that I wanted, nor needed, sumnary, gnu (I tend to read and enjoy research reports).. My comments were of a general nature, related to my observation on reaching many in the population, and not focusing on any one person on Mudcat, or elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Jun 14 - 06:34 PM

"Have you thought of using your anger and your, '2 months of research', constructively?" Yeah... read my page. My page is the only one that does not allow discussion or bullshit. You wanna know about fracking? Read. It's all there.

A summary, Ed? Read my pinned post at Frack quoted above. I ask ONE question. There is you summary. As far as summarizing what would take two months to read and is just the tip of the iceberg? Not my job. Ya want a summary? Fracking kills in the short term, and forever. Once you frack, you can't go back.

Now... my "anger"... my "2 months of research"? WTF is your problem? I said what I said and you twist my words like that? I have years into this and you trivialize that research? I SAID it would take YOU two months to read my compilation of research. Either you read what I said and do not twist what I said for your twisted pleasure or piss off. Is that angry enough for you ya stunnedasmearsefuck? Seriously... how can you write such fuckin twisted drivel and not expect people to view your posts as inane and simply that of a trolling twit? Apologize or piss off.

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Jun 14 - 02:58 PM

My observation is many people will not take the time to read "reams of research" without some strategic priming. If they are presented with a summary, and links to additional information, somes interest will be stimulated to click on the more detailed linked information. Yet, others will be satisfied with the summaries.

Like it or not, it seems to be the way things are heading for many, (possibly less so for baby boomers).

If a bloke want to reach them, and feels it is important enough, a challenge is to work with the route these folks get information. If not, I guess one can always fall back on fingering someone elses "lack of concern". Another alternative is always to conclude in early defeat ( aka, the "fuck 'em all, if they aren't interested in doing a bit if reading" approach).

Subject: RE: BS: Why won't the fracking companies speak?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 13 Jun 14 - 01:57 PM

"Fuck this never ending circle of bullshit. The info is available on the internUt if you can be arsed to educate yourselves. Fracking kills. If it was just those uneducated that proffer silly arguments that would die from fracking, that would be fine with me on accounta they are part of the problem. That's it for me. I haven't the time for such tripe and lard."

And that's a pity, gnu. You're obviously very angry about this - but your anger is directed against the wrong targets and will achieve nothing. What's the point of 'shouting' at Musket - or me for that matter? Have you thought of using your anger and your, '2 months of research', constructively? For instance, have you thought of using those resources to protect your community? I don't know what you've done with your 2 months of research (feel free to enlighten me) but I would point out that it will be a wasted effort if you haven't (yet?) put it to good use; as the old cliche goes, "knowledge is power" - but power needs to be directed.

I have a friend who is incredibly bright and resourceful and the environmental 'bee-in-his-bonnet' is climate change. He certainly gets the message out there but he tends to alienate people by shouting at them. He's also a 'glass-half-full' sort of bloke (must control these cliches!)so any small victories are dismissed as trivial. He won't be happy until the whole city comes round to his way of thinking and drops everything in order to counter climate change - and even then he will dismiss half of the population as idiots who are doing it wrong.

I don't want to 'blow-my-own-trumpet' (Oh no! Not another one!)but the environmental 'bee-in-my-bonnet' (Nooooo!!!) is biodiversity loss. I decided to try and channel my anger at local losses and try to reverse them. And you know what? I seem to be succeeding! Much to my amazement people seem to be listening and real progress is being made. I'm more hopeful now than I've ever been. And through all of this, I have not shouted at a single person.