BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Amergin
Date: 12 May 04 - 10:08 PM

Where I live there is NO public transport. I cannot afford to move into the city...as for being without a car i would love to be able to live without it...not having to pay petrol prices...car payments...and insurance payments...but like I said it IS a necessity...

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 May 04 - 09:52 PM

Metchosin - I meant gas for personal use. And I have a garden that provides about 75% of my vegetables (I even grow potatoes - 6 kinds)


Jenny - I changed my life to be able to live without a car. As you might notice I did mention that I drive a scooter. If you think I'm self-righteous - tough. This world is going to self-destruct in 50 or less years if we don't change the way were doing things. I know that what I'm doing isn't going to change the world, but at least I can seriously look people in the 3rd world as say that I'm less a part of the problem that more wastful people. I'm not bragging. I'm telling you that it can be done. Maybe not easily - but switch with a family in Botswanna or Sri Lanka or Peru and see how needed all your stuff is.

I have given up a lot to live simply (though you'd be surprised what you don't miss). It is a choice I made. I do use over people's cars/trucks on occasion and give them $$ to cover the cost. I chose work that allows me to work at home or close to my home.

You made choices in your life. When you made those choices what your enviormental impact ever a significant factor? Or like most 1st Worlders, did you go for conveience or comfort first?

Am I making you mad? Good. Think of me everytime you turn on your A/C, get in your car to go a mile, flush a full 5 gallons of water every time you pee, wash a load of dishes in a half-full washer, etc. If you don't do any of those things and try to live simply - congrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Cluin
Date: 12 May 04 - 04:37 PM

Where I live, a car IS a necessity. I would LOVE to not have to own one.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: JennyO
Date: 12 May 04 - 08:32 AM

I get a bit annoyed at people who come over superior-sounding because they don't drive a car. A lot of them are only too happy to get lifts to places in other people's cars, without having to pay for one and its upkeep. I am NOT talking about my friends that I give lifts to willingly and who pay me for the petrol, by the way.

Some of us could not do our jobs without a car - I'm not talking about getting to work, I'm talking about using a car for the work - some of us do not live near public transport, or suffer a disability, and could not function without a car. There are a number of reasons why we might choose to run a car, and we don't have to justify ourselves to the ones who don't.

So by all means, if you can manage without one, do so, but spare us the self-righteous overtones and the little digs about being addicted or needing to get organized.

Jenny (car owner)

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 04 - 07:25 AM

It is high time that we all got off car welfare. They are the single most destructive thing in our cities and we need to stop seeing them as essential and start seeing them in the eay we see cigarettes...un unacceptable addiction. I realize that there are times when cars and trucks are essential but we have gone way past that and we need to change. I have not owned acar in twenty years and I get around quite well in a city that has onle adequate transit service. I wish we could all just look at wgat we mean by essential.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Metchosin
Date: 11 May 04 - 04:09 PM

gas isn't much of a necessity? I'd like to see you move a ton of potatoes or a couple of hundred gallons of milk without it.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 11 May 04 - 02:09 PM

Gas isn't much of a necesity if you organize your life. I own a scooter and a bike. I use less than 2 gallons of gas a week. Occasionally I need to carry more stuff than my scooter can handle. I have any number of friends who are happy to accomodate with their cars.

I spend more on liquor, though that is still a minor expense. A few pints every couple weeks and a bottle of single malt every other month or so. Say $250 a year. Gas at current prices: about $170.

Of course, the more gas you use, the sooner you'll be forced to change. I can't wait until that time to here all the whinning.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Cluin
Date: 11 May 04 - 01:59 PM

Not when compared to liquor. The government taxes the hell out of that too. But that's okay, it's not a necessity (for most of us).

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: GUEST,Bill Gates
Date: 11 May 04 - 11:12 AM

Gasoline is not at all expensive!!

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 May 04 - 03:25 PM

Not at all "far off the mark" DougR, just paying attention to something beyond the numbers on the gas station sign. Contributors to this thread are apparently looking in their wallets and not at the big picture to see why the sticker shock.

You'll be interested to know that today on the news (Morning Edition, NPR) it was announced that last night a Saudi Arabian ambassador announced that at next month's OPEC meeting he will move to have the number of barrels of oil increased to avoid world crisis. Let's see: the meeting in is June. The production will begin increasing sometime in July. Prices will probably be lower for July, August, September, October, in time for November elections. Four months of decreasing prices ought to just about clinch it for people who can't see beyond their wallets to the puppet masters with the strings right there in plain sight.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Peace
Date: 10 May 04 - 03:19 PM

Four liters almost equal an American gallon. At $.85/liter, that would be $3.40 per gallon before exchange. Afetr exchange (multiply times 1.3 approximately), ya end up paying about $4.40/gal in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: DougR
Date: 10 May 04 - 02:07 PM

It was not intended as an "attack" SRS. Your's and Bobert's posts were so far off the mark, though, it appeared to me the posts were meant in jest. Couldn't imagine either of you REALLY blamed Bush.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Lyrical Lady
Date: 10 May 04 - 11:50 AM

Saltspring Is. was on the National news the other day with the distiction of having the highest gas prices in Canada. I filled up yesterday at $107.9 /ltr. Being that everything has to be trucked over here, it means that everything we buy will be affected..Scarey thought! How can people who work at minimum wage ever hope to make it... it's becoming way too expensive to live here.

LL

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 04 - 11:21 AM

of course when I see bottled water going for $1.50 US for a 12 oz bottle I don't feel anywhere near as upset about paying $1.96 a gallon for gasoline.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Kim C
Date: 10 May 04 - 10:45 AM

Here's how I see it...

People have been traveling less over the last 2.5 years thanks to the events of 9/11. Demand for gas has probably actually gone DOWN slightly, so to make up for it, the prices are going up, and we're led to believe there's some big heavy reason for it. But I don't buy it. I think it's all a scam trumped up by people wanting to take advantage of the Middle East situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: MarkS
Date: 10 May 04 - 12:16 AM

Another thing to remember is that China is bidding up the price of gas. Domestic manufacture of autos in China has gone up by roughly triple over the past 3-4 years. All those autos need fuel, so China is now buying oil in higher quantities than in previous years. Likewise for steel. The price of steel is up something like 60% over a year ago, and it has gotten so bad that thieves are stealing (bad pun - sorry) guard rails from highway median strips in New Jersey and selling them for scrap.
With increased Chinese and Asian prosperity, the competition for the commodities we used to use more of in the West will drive prices for those commodities nowhere but up.
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 May 04 - 08:23 PM

DougR, you're well known for making attacks on anyone who supports liberal causes or democratic candidates. But all you did was state the obvious that only two folks had had the foresight to place blame where it belonged (this is where you were going with that remark, isn't it?). Halliburton goes with the Bush camp without saying, so why state the obvious?

I don't consider myself anybody's sidekick--I can take top billing on my own, thank you very much!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 09 May 04 - 08:15 PM

Here's an idea - since the Saudis got rich off of their gas, and that's where's Osama's money came from, everyone who has bought gas is partially guilty of the destruction of the Twin Towers. The more gas you consumed the more you're guilty. So - how many people did you kill?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 09 May 04 - 08:10 PM

Phot - instead of complaining about the cost of gas, maybe you should be rethinking the idea of using such a wastful vehicle.

Live in the real world - not the one TV sells you.

Sing seen recently on the back of a compact car: "Soldiers are dying in their Hummers, so you can play war in yours."

Another: Osama thanks you for driving an SUV.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: DougR
Date: 09 May 04 - 03:27 PM

Now, now, SRS, poked a sensitive spot did we?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 May 04 - 02:37 AM

Now, if we just stop pumping oil out of the US fields, and burn up all the Mideast and Far East oil...

Oil is far too valuable as a raw material to use it as fuel. Our children will curse us, when they have to systhesize hydrocarbons for chemical processes, when we could have been using nuclear power and fuel cells...

I live about 40 miles from my work. There are NO trains or buses that would get me there, even if my hours would allow it. Having just spent 25 months unemployed, I don't think I had much choice about taking what I could get, or any choice about being able to move. The society in the US is based on individual transportation rather than public.
Of course, if we go back to company owned towns...

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 May 04 - 01:58 AM

Did you have something useful to contribute to the conversation, DougR, or are you typing just to hear your keys rattle?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Phot
Date: 08 May 04 - 06:14 PM

I want to get the Landrover back on the road for winter, but at 14 MPG with the V8, an 85 litre tank is going to cost a bit too much.

Ah , sod it, You never know I may just run over Tony Blair...Was that other bump GWB?....

Wassail!! BOING!!



Bump..Bump..

Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 08 May 04 - 05:01 PM

It's expensive because the people who control it's sale and distribution can charge what they like for it. Detroit is also culpable.

This will be true of prescription drugs for the same reason.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: DougR
Date: 08 May 04 - 04:47 PM

I cawn't believe it! Only two posts blaming Bush for the high cost of gasoline in the U. S. out of those posting to date! Unbelievable! Of course one would know without searching who wrote those two posts, right? Good old Bobert and his side-kick, SRS. So far, Halliburton has got off scott free! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 May 04 - 03:35 PM

Gas in the UK is now around $6 per UK gallon.
John

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 08 May 04 - 02:52 PM

If gas is so expensive, why is the consumption of it going up?


People are lazy, fat and stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 May 04 - 02:50 PM

Make that "precarious."

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 May 04 - 02:48 PM

So you believe him? Bandar is said to have made the offer, not Bush make the request. Bandar realizes that instead of Afghanistan or Iraq, the U.S. could have legitmately blown Saudi Arabia to wee bits after September 11. Look at the percarious position of both the U.S. regarding oil and Saudi Arabia regarding the number of terrorists they continue to unleash upon the world. They suffer from real credibility and special incestuous-interest problems. It's in Saudi Arabia's best interest to keep Bush in office.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: pdq
Date: 08 May 04 - 02:03 PM

SRS - Prince Bandar was asked about that claim right after Woodward started pushing his book. Bandar said, in no uncertain terms, that Bush made no such request, either directly or throught diplomatic channels. He was also quite blunt that both Democrat presidents Clinton and Carter HAD made exactly such requests!

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 May 04 - 12:35 PM

George Bush made a deal with Saudi Prince Bandar about the price of gas. It's that simple.

Back in April, we learned from CBS and many other outlets:

Woodward told 60 Minutes that Saudi Prince Bandar has promised the president that Saudi Arabia will lower oil prices in the months before the election - to ensure the U.S. economy is strong on election day.

I looked for an article with more information.

This comes from CNN back on April 19:

Saudis said to boost oil output

No. 1 oil exporter will reportedly increase production before election in effort to help Bush.
April 19, 2004: 7:09 AM EDT

NEW YORK (CNN) - A top Saudi official has assured President Bush that his country will increase oil production to lower gas prices before November to help the president's re-election prospects, according to a broadcast report Sunday.

Washington Post journalist Bob Woodward, discussing his new book on the run-up to the Iraq war on CBS' '60 Minutes,' said Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the Saudi ambassador to the United States and a long-time friend of the Bush family, has given the pledge that "certainly over the summer, or as we get closer to the election, they could increase production several million barrels a day and the price would drop significantly."

Earlier this month, the Saudi ambassador publicly said his country wants to stabilize world oil prices because of the effect a price spike might have on economies around the world, including Saudi Arabia. He did not link the effort to the U.S. election.

Record-high gas prices have become an issue in the presidential race between Bush and the presumptive Democratic nominee, Sen. John Kerry.

Kerry has criticized Bush for not doing more to bring high prices under control, while the Bush campaign has run ads noting that Kerry once supported a 50-cent per gallon increase in the federal gasoline tax, which would have meant even higher prices.

Amid concerns that plans by OPEC to cut oil production could raise prices even further, Prince Bandar went to the White House April 1 to meet with National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and to deliver a message to Bush from Crown Prince Abdullah, the de facto Saudi ruler.

Afterward, he told reporters that Saudi Arabia is committed to heading off any shortages in the world energy market.

"We will not allow shortages in the market because that will hurt the world economy," he said. "Saudi Arabia does not live on the moon. When the world economy gets hurt, we get hurt also."

He also said that the president and the crown prince "have been in touch on this subject for a while now."

"Both leaders feel strongly that higher energy prices have a negative impact on the world economy and on the recovery of the world economy," Prince Bandar said. "We will not allow shortage of the markets of oil in the market to increase the prices."

The ambassador said Saudi Arabia would like to see the price of oil, which now tops $33 a barrel, to be between $22 and $28 a barrel.

OPEC has said it plans to cut production by as much as 1 million barrels per day in April, which would further increase prices. However, Saudi Arabia, as OPEC's most influential member and largest producer, could thwart those plans.   

Bush has it in his ability to fix this any time he wants. And he wants to do it right before the election. I'd bet money on it. But just yesterday a friend wrote to say that oil has now hit $40 a barrel. So they're still tightening the thumb screws.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: pdq
Date: 08 May 04 - 12:08 PM

If you take a calculator and multiply by 1.04, representing an annual inflation rate of 4%, and do it for each year, you can compare the gas price now with that of the past. The figure 4% is approxomately the "cost of living" increase automatically granted to federal entitlement programs.

          73 cents in 1973 = $2.46 in 2003
          $1.49      in 1992 = $2.48 in 2003

I now pay about $1.89. (US gallon, US dollar)

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 08 May 04 - 11:39 AM

The comparison between whiskey and gasoline is silly. We have to drive cars, we don't have to drink whiskey.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Metchosin
Date: 08 May 04 - 11:19 AM

One could propose nationalizing the oil industry here and forget about going to Venezuela. Yeah...right..

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Cluin
Date: 08 May 04 - 10:46 AM

I'm going to Venezuela to fill up.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 09:22 AM

I guess the tax on gas will be at a similar rate as in the US. But I will check on that.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Metchosin
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 07:32 AM

Is there a tax on gas in China?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 04:54 AM

Just to add another perspective; gas in China is RMB 3.2 a litre that works out at about RMB 14.5 per imperial gallon. On todays exchange rates that is $1.75 per gallon. Therefore comparable with the US, but cheaper than the UK.

This then needs to be compared at the basic wages in China. In a city like Shanghai or Beijing an average good local wage is about $600 a month. In the country side it is much much lower.

Therefore the real cost is much higher, when taken as a percentage of earnings.

Chinese cars are fairly cheap but cars made by joint ventures such as Volkwagen, GM and Ford are much more expensive than an equivalent model made outside of China.

In Shanghai the cost of a car number plate is now RMB43,000 or $5200.
Some other cities are cheaper but unless you have a residents permit you cannot register in another city.

So a good communist country like China is no different from any other country. Cars are considered a luxury and are therefore taxed on the purchase price, the licencing and the gas that goes in them.

All motorways are toll roads and the tolls are not cheap either. A 2.5 hour return trip to a city called Hangzhou about 200 Km from Shanghai will cost about $22 in tolls alone.

So on balance the US seems to be getting a pretty good deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 03:00 AM

It's gonna get a helluva lot more expensive when we begin running out of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Scoville
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 10:40 PM

It was about $5/gallon in Norway when we were there 12 years ago. I can't imagine what it must be now. It runs around $1.60 here for the cheap stuff ($1.85 for premium). No complaints. I've got a large hatchback that runs around 30/35 mpg; I'd probably have bought something even smaller but I really do need the hatch and flat-folding seats, more often than I thought I would.

And I'd love to live closer to work but don't get me started on the job market here.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Gurney
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 04:01 AM

Interesting, comparing the rip-offs in the cost of petrol and whisky.
One point not yet made: They don't store petrol for six years before they sell it, and watch 20% or so evaporate in that time.
That is like growing trees for profit; you'd better have another source of income in the meantime.

Sorry about the faulty maths up the top there. Tried to correct myself but couldn't get back on. Frequent occurance.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: LadyJean
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 12:53 AM

I'm going to have to get out to OHara Township next week. There are no buses that go that way. So, I'm going to have to drive. My car doesn't run on whiskey, or even Chanel # 5.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 10:06 AM

Filling up my car with overpriced gas pisses me off.
Filling myself with overpriced whiskey makes me happy.
I'll take the latter please. Cognac preferred!

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Jim McCallan
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 08:43 AM

Yes, Teribus but the rip-off occurs at State level.

I'm all for keeping jobs in the country, and supporting local distillers, and all that. And considering the wages that are paid to the average oil worker, and compare that to what the average distillery worker gets, I also think that to be fairly straightforward also.

The original comparison, I think though, was not a good one, as we use each product for different purposes; one is a lot more 'consumable' than the other, (if we all drove a car, and took a dram from time to time) for instance. But if the taxes were reduced on both commodities, your average Joe like myself, and I suspect yourself, would have a few extra bob in our pockets.

Rip-off certainly, but then again, I don't pour 10 gallons of whisk(e)y in to me twice a week.

Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 08:14 AM

Fairly straightforward Jim.

How much does it cost the oil company to get a litre of petrol to the pump in order that the motorist can put it in his car? Compare that to how much it costs a distillery to get a litre of whisky to a warehouse?

Profit to the oil company is in terms of pennies per litre.

Profit to the distiller is in terms of pounds per litre.

Ratio production cost : profit per litre, which is the biggest rip-off? I'll side with MGOH on this petrol is quite good value for money, whisky at the current prices is a rip-off.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: MudGuard
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 03:24 AM

uncontrolled collisions with the ground:
in 99.9% of these cases, the ground has been found guilty and was sentenced to long years of lying around without moving ;-)

-20K,thats a Zen temperature.
That's why I put the smiley ;-) before Kelvin ;-)

The last time I bought gasoline was in 1997 or 1998 - I was on a bicycle trip and used my tent for the nights. I bought half a litre and used it for my camping cooker ;-)

But imagine the face of the station owner when I rode up to the air station and filled my tires, then cycled up to one of the pumps and poured gasoline in my pannier (it must have looked like that - I was holding the fuel bottle behind the pannier ;-)), then went to pay.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Jim McCallan
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 01:55 AM

Interesting to see Teribus' on one hand tell us the difference between the greater rip-off of whisky as opposed to petrol, and proceed then to tell us that the (UK) Government taxes whisky at 20% less.

As a connoisseur of the golden drop (though I say so myself), I do despair of the prices sometimes, but I know that it is not produced by the millions of barrels per day, and as such there is less of it to tax.

I agree with GUEST 25 Mar 04 - 06:20 AM that both are rip-offs, but technically speaking, petrol is the greater one.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 09:39 PM

Three words:

1. George Bush: oilman

2. Dick Cheney: oilman

3. Condolesa Rice: oilwoman

Bobert, none of the above

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: jimmyt
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 09:21 PM

Art, I am not referring to folks who actually utilize the features of their vehicles. i have a pickup that truth be known I probably don't need as much as I would like to think I do but it is always available for friends and family to use so I can sorta justify it.

I am referring to the people who own these gas guzzling behemoths that never see much use except from the garage to the Starbucks. We Americans are really very spoiled with motor vehicles. I have however noticed lots more Range Rovers travelling the back roads in England though in recent years. Not too far behind us it seems in personal consumption.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Metchosin
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 08:18 PM

If the tax of 86% is correct, it would appear that the UK has the lowest pretax gas price.