BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 01:13 AM

Iraqui Gas Price.

no comment.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Strick
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 06:31 PM

Strick, using the first four items from the website you cited, I ran the figures through the Consumer Price Index calculator here.   The increase in the CPI, assuming that the prices cited in your website were current as of the last time the site was updated (December 26, 2002 when I visited it a few minutes ago), at the end of 2003 (the last year for which inflation figures are available) the items would cost, per gallon:

Coffee: USD 0.72
Unleaded gasoline: USD 1.42
Kool-Aid: USD 1.89
Clorox: USD 2.25

Without running out to my car and checking, I believe was paying USD 1.60 for a gallon of unleaded petrol at the end of December, 2003. (And why would I buy a gallon of Clorox bleach when the house brand would work and about USD 1.00/gallon cheaper?)

This is NOT to say that petrol in the US is not cheaper than anywhere else -- it is. But I don't think that the increase can be attributed solely to the average increase in the CPI, either.

Sorry I didn't get back to this thread and see this, Rapaire. The current increase in prices has nothing to do with the CPI. It's mostly a risk premium, along with the effects refinery constraints and some people speculating on crude prices. Without those factors the price would be more inline with inflation. Remember that not everything moves in lock step with the CPI, which can be a flawed measure (I rather use the GDP inflator for example) and for many, many years gasoline prices didn't even remotely keep up with inflation. That's mostly what the link I posted was trying to say, that gasoline prices are largely independent of the CPI and for most of the last 20 years it was grossly under inflated.

Todays prices (well, prices up to the break in price of crude late last week) are a temporary aberration.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 05:52 PM

I wish americans would stop moaning about the price of petrol hitting $2 per gallon, thats nothing compared to what we pay in the uk at clost to $6 dollars per gallon.

Americans should stop wasting fuel driving stupid SUVs and so forth, european cars have smaller engines, yet go the same speed and burn much less fuel. What makes more sense?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 16 May 04 - 08:20 PM

Why is gasolne so expensive---just that nothing else. Probably a combination of Geo. W.'s pigheaded policies, the selfishness of those who really "need" SUVs in big cities, and, finally, the "who cares" attitude of those with the gas guzzlers until their financial bubble bursts.   I speak of the U S only since I do not claim to know reasons elsewhere.

The price of gasoline in the U S is now taking approx. 12.00 US out of the weekly money of families.   In a low to middle income family that can only help slow the economy, cause layoffs, and, finally, lead to if not a depression then a recession.

I have heard, however, that in California the Gov. and others are upset and trading their Hummers in for SUVs. What a wonderful and selfless thing to do.(This being electronic posting---I add the disclaimer about this being alleged humor).


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Metchosin
Date: 16 May 04 - 01:50 PM

No you don't, pdq. Personally, I don't choose to believe any prick, out of hand. LOL

Blackcatter may find getting around on his or her scooter a bit uncomfortable during the winter months and the public transportation sucks but hey, why not? The climate's great for growing potatoes, people here are usually pretty good at helping their neighbours get around and we always have room for the sanctimonious.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: pdq
Date: 16 May 04 - 12:59 PM

Met... we know which type of "prick" you choose to believe. *BG* Also, you are too bright to use one wrong to justify another wrong.

At least you and Blackcatter "walk the walk" as well as "talk the talk". Now if Blackcatter were to move to BC he could claim a "footprint" of about 2.0 instead of 8.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Metchosin
Date: 16 May 04 - 12:45 PM

pdq, maybe it was slanted to make the Scots feel sanctimonious.*BG* With my lifestyle I'd have comparatively small footprint there.

Well, as they say, there are lies, damned lies and statistics. Myself, I've never noticed the political right to be a tad bit squeamish about having the end justify the means either. Whether you're a self serving left wing prick or a self serving right wing prick is irrelevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: pdq
Date: 16 May 04 - 11:39 AM

Met... the idea that the promoters of the Earthday site have to be "masochists" in order to slant results, lie or agressively promote an extreme Leftist agenda is absurd! I went to college with this type of activist and I know how many of them think. They feel that the end justifies the means.

Yes, the Ecological Footprint Quiz is rigged to make Americans look and feel bad. Period.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 May 04 - 02:56 AM

Then why are the UKers hammering on the issue? (Sorry, guys!)

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Metchosin
Date: 16 May 04 - 02:52 AM

pdq, only if you believe the founders are masochists. Earthday and the Earthday site, although it now has international affiliations, was started by Americans.

Ebbie, as far as I was able to calculate it, further up thread and before the recent increase in price, the UK pays less for gasoline (disregarding taxes) than either the US or Canada. I would assume that the relatively short distance for ocean transport of North Sea Oil, to the consumer base, would be part of the explanation. It costs more to transport oil by pipeline than it does to transport it by ship, so all that stuff coming out of Alberta and Northern BC by pipeline to the US and to Ontario and Quebec is a bit pricey.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 May 04 - 10:17 PM

incidentally, I don't understand the lament of how much petrol in the UK (for instance) costs. Since most of the charge goes for taxes and those taxes prepay a good many things, including health care, why is it an "expensive gasoline" item? Somebody has to pay those costs somewhere along the line.

In the US, much of the fuel taxes goes to pay for the road system- which often is a boondoggle in itself. But it appears that we are paying at least as much as the UK in actual fuel costs.

Nicht wahr? Enlighten me.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: freda underhill
Date: 15 May 04 - 09:14 PM

the US government is pouring its research money into the wrong things. this money could be much better spent on designing and eco friendly car, and marketing it for the masses.

read on..

Bush presses for more, more, more nuclear weapons
by Ian Hoffman, The Oakland Tribune, Dec. 11, 2003

In a newly leaked memo, the Bush administration's top nuclear-weapons executive urged the three federal H-bomb labs to explore a full range of new thermonuclear weapons. National Nuclear Security Administration chief Linton Brooks twice pressed weapons-lab directors last week to "take advantage of this opportunity" raised by repeal last month of a 1993 ban on low-yield nuclear weapons development.

Critics of the administration's new nuclear policies say the Dec. 5 memo suggests a no-holds-barred approach to designing new weapons that is more reminiscent of a Cold War arms race -- without a competitor -- than trying to curb the spread of nuclear weapons.

"This is really very distressing," said physicist and public policy professor Frank von Hippel, co-director of Princeton's Program on Science and Global Security. "They're saying, 'Go after it, guys. We're back in the fifties. Come up with all the crazy ideas you can -- if there are any crazy ideas left out there.' This is fossil Cold War mentality surfacing again."

President Bush signed a defense bill Nov. 24 that contained the repeal and re-established "advanced concepts" weapons design teams at Law- rence Livermore, Los Alamos and Sandia labs for the first time since the mid-1990s. "I expect your design teams to engage fully with the Department of Defense to examine advanced (thermonuclear) concepts that could contribute to our nation's security," Brooks wrote. "Potentially important areas of such research include agent defeat and reduced collateral damage."

Agent defeat and reduced collateral damage are the latest lingo for nuclear weapons to attack stores of chemical and biological arms and for low-yield bombs that penetrate the ground before detonating.

"In addition, we must take advantage of this opportunity to ensure that we close any gaps that may have opened this past decade in our understanding of the possible military applications of atomic energy -- no novel nuclear weapons concept developed by any other nation should ever come as a technical surprise to us," Brooks wrote.


"I would like to thank you and your staff for helping to support this important effort," Brooks wrote. "We are now free to explore a range of technical options that could strengthen our ability to deter, or respond to new or emerging threats without any concern that some ideas could violate some vague and arbitrary limitation."

The sentiment is noteworthy: The three lab directors -- two executives of the University of California and one of Lockheed Martin -- are typically discouraged from lobbying Congress, especially in pursuit of new nuclear weapons.

The memo was leaked Wednesday to the Los Alamos Study Group, an Albuquerque, N.M.-based disarmament organization.

"It's kind of cry havoc and release the dogs of nuclear design," said study group director Greg Mello.

He suggested the memo marked a shift from disciplined public service claimed by lab contractors such as the University of California to "nuclear opportunism" timed with the Bush administration.

"I think it means that all weapons concepts are on the table. Let's look at nuclear-driven radio-frequency weapons, let's look at neutron bombs and agent defeat and earth penetrators. Let's look at even more advanced concepts," he said. "You don't sense a lot of restraint here."

In December 2001, civilian leaders in the Pentagon called for new weapons designs in a still-classified Nuclear Posture Review. Since then, defense and Energy Department officials and allies in Congress have argued that the current U.S. arsenal of 7,000 deployed weapons was full of such high-yield bombs and warheads that an adversary might be emboldened to attack, thinking the United States never would retaliate.

We should not fail to take advantage of this opportunity, Brooks wrote in closing his memo.

Yet the Bush administration has avoided mentioning that all existing U.S. nuclear weapons are multi-staged devices, easily adjusted or modified for at least three explosive yields. Every bomb and warhead can be detonated at the equivalent of a few hundred tons of high-explosive, the definition of mini-nuke.

Suggesting the nation needs new, low-yield bombs, says retired Sandia weapons executive Robert Peurifoy, is a con game that he suspects is aimed at restarting nuclear testing.

"Tell me what yield you want and I can give it to you within the present inventory," Peurifoy said. "I do not understand this present argument that we are at some disadvantage with respect to the Chinese and the Russians or whoever. We can do any damn thing we want to do today, without nuclear testing."

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 May 04 - 07:51 PM

Same with me- givng Seattle's as the climate most like mine, my footprint is 12.

Vancouver nets me a 5.7.

Blackcatter, where do you live? Could it be that we live more lightly than you?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: pdq
Date: 15 May 04 - 01:48 PM

Met...you don't suppose that the quiz is slanted against Americans, do you? Maybe an attempt to paint all Americans as pigs?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Metchosin
Date: 15 May 04 - 01:54 AM

Maybe of little consolation Phot, but you can always turn that wonderful old V8 into a Bennett Buggy

SRS, the footprint thing is a bit weird. If you answer the questions exactly the same way, but put yourself in different countries, you get entirely different sizes. I suspect that smaller European countries require less energy to move good and services about, but that doesn't explain the huge difference between Canada and the US. I would have thought that given Canada's reputation as a high "energy consumer", particularly because of the generally colder climate, coupled with the massive distances across which goods and services are transported, that my footprint would have been larger here.

In Canada, using Vancouver as the closest city, I'm a 4.6, but in Seattle I'm a 12, in Edinburgh a 3.9 and Cologne a 4.1. What makes me a bit less of a resource hog is that I have the priveledge of living in an energy efficient, "green" house and doing most of my work from my home office, so I do not have to commute. I also don't have any small children to ferry about anymore either.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Phot
Date: 14 May 04 - 07:41 PM

Petrol is now 85 pence per litre, the old girl has an 85 litre tank, at 14 MPG, OUCH! Call me a twit, I love V8s, if I can keep up with the fuel price remains to be seen...


The Landrover is 3528cc(215ci)

The Triumph is 955cc (?)

Landrover 0-60    19 seconds..114hp 220Lbs Torque

Triumph 0-60    2.3 seconds..156hp 78Lbs Torque


All that power has to come from somewhere, yep, the Triumph can drink more than the Landy........

All this has sod all to do with the question, but may show our love of all things octain fuelled...

Wassail!

(Skint!) Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: S O P
Date: 14 May 04 - 07:14 PM

Taking a day off of buying fuel is like not going to the supermarket for a day. 'They' know you need the gas just as 'they' know you need the fuel. Your actions will be suitable for Jay Leno's act of going out on the street and interviewing the stupid and ignorant.

And gasoline is not a waste product if millions of machines are built just to consume it. If you were going to argue that point about 110 years ago you might have had a point. Standard Oil grew great way before it was selling gasoline. It grew still greater afterwards.

In fact, the production of plastics does not utilize nearly as much of oil as the portions used for gasoline (automotive) diesel (trains and trucking) and kerosene (air travel).

If enough of you purchased subarus instead of Hummers and used a bicycle to get groceries once a week and USED LESS GAS, then you would have an effect on the price. Otherwise it's a joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: harpgirl
Date: 14 May 04 - 06:56 PM

Okay, now gasoline is $1.97 for low test. I can't believe this!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: pdq
Date: 14 May 04 - 06:25 PM

Did Ole have any last words?

No, his wife was with him till the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 May 04 - 12:06 PM

That test is far too short and clearly makes too many assumptions. My footprint came out 12, yet I know that's far too high. What were the factors in the test that affected my score? The house size, for one. It's in a larger category, but I put in lots of insulation and two efficient heat pumps. I've cut the cost of heating and cooling to 1/3 of what the former owners paid to heat and cool this house (my average monthly bill is $100 for a 2400+ foot house). I grow many of my own veggies. I telecommute, so the distance that I drive to work is less important--I only do it a couple of times a week. I recycle paper, cardboard, paperboard, glass, plastic, aluminum and other metals, and paper. I have a large compost heap in the back for the table waste. While my neighbors put full trash cans out at the curb, typically my one little can has one plastic grocery sack filled with the trash that couldn't be recycled. (I tie the handles into a knot, so it isn't very big at all). I carry cloth bags to the grocery store; cold stuff comes home in the plastic bags. We do eat meat, so that no doubt raised the score.) I pick up some groceries in brown paper bags so I can use those bags for the newspaper that gets recycled (if it doesn't get used under the mulch in the flower beds).

My truck usually has several riders, since I have kids. We don't make unnecessary trips and we plan them carefully. A truck isn't the most efficient vehicle mileage-wise, but I make sure every trip is as efficient as possible.

This thread reminds me of the old Ole and Lena joke:

Ole lay dying, and he said, "Is my wife here?" Lena said, "Yes, I'm here." He asked "Are my children here?" and they said, "Yes, we're all here." He said, "Are my relatives all here?" They said, "Yes. We're all here." Ole said, "If you're all here, why is the light on in the kitchen?"


SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 14 May 04 - 10:51 AM

My footprint was 4.2. I would like to drive a car but 1) I haven't passed my test and 2)I probably couldn't afford the upkeep of it.

I manage by getting around on public transport and we get a taxi if we have too much stuff to carry.

And before Blackcatter jumps in about 3rd world countries....I donate to charities whenever I can...and can afford it.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: freda underhill
Date: 14 May 04 - 10:00 AM

my footprint was 2.6, I think being vegetarian probably contributed to that. and there's always someone else in a car with me, because I'm one of those ones that gets lifts! jennyo, what would I do without you and your car? thanks for all those lifts home from sessions.

There are these amazing, electric, or gas or whatever run cars, so I've heard. you also hear rumours about large corporations keeping the hydro car under lock and key until all the petrol has been used up on the gas guzzlers.

but realistically, at present who can afford an eco-car? yes, I've lived in India without cars, washing machines or an electric toothbrush. somehow I survived. but i need a train or bus to get to work on, and i'm lucky enough to live close to all that.

Its commendable to make personal efforts - but the real, effective changes will happen when different politicians get in, and make the major stuctural and environmental planning thats needed.

whats the point in getting stuck into someone and then zooming off on your motorbike?

ps

that song's brilliant jennyo - and so right for this thread!

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: JennyO
Date: 14 May 04 - 08:43 AM

Next time why don't you do something to help the people in third world nations that only wish they had a life like yours? Now THAT'd be something.

There you go again, assuming you know something about me, which you don't.

I thought you might like this little song that my friends in Ecopella, a green choir, sing. It's written by Paul Spencer (a mudcat member) who also writes songs for my choir, the Solidarity Choir. Enjoy:

Green Like Me

Words and music by Paul Spencer, 1996
arranged for choir by Ecopella

1. I'm an ethical consumer, that's a nineties thing to be,
So it's hydrocarbon aerosols instead of CFCs,
And now that Macca's uses those recycled paper trays,
My care for our environment can last for days and days,
In oh! So many ways,
My care for our environment can last for days and days.

2. I was going to start a compost but I couldn't stand the smell,
So I put it in the garbage with the glass and cans as well,
I know I should recycle but I just don't have the time,
To be sorting through the garbage can with a hectic life like mine,
And I'm far too refined,
To be sorting through the garbage can with a hectic life like mine.

3. You say I shouldn't drive to work but go by bus or train,
And have me waiting half an hour each morning in the rain,
My mobile phone would get all wet my hairspray would dissolve,
I'll be environmental if discomfort's not involved,
I give this firm resolve,
I'll be environmental if discomfort's not involved.

4. Now it's great to save our forests but I think it's fair to say,
That if someone's job is threatened then the forest must give way,
Well, we can't live without money, just look at those who do,
From their hair and clothes it's obvious they haven't got a clue,
Of course I don't mean you,
From their hair and clothes it's obvious they haven''t got a clue.

5. It's not that I hate ferals, or people who are weird,
In fact in have a friend who has two earrings in one ear,
It's just they tend to smell a bit or so the rumours go,
But I'm just being prejudiced 'cause I really wouldn't know,
And drug use makes them slow,
But I'm just being prejudiced 'cause I really wouldn't know.

6. I took some re-used bags once when I did the weekly shop,
But I felt a little foolish so that practice had to stop,
I still buy all the packaging I used to buy before,
But now I feel guilty so that counts as doing more,
And thinking's such a bore,
But now I feel guilty so that counts as doing more.

7. What do you mean "inactive"? I'm PC and up to date,
I buy dolphin-friendly tuna and I think Greenpeace is great,
I use unleaded petrol in my brand new Commodore,
And I'm boycotting my French class and the local French bread store,
Who could ask for more?
I'm boycotting my French class and the local French bread store.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 14 May 04 - 06:13 AM

Actually - the argument about petrol and crude oil prices is a complete smokescreen.
The main use of crude oil is in the plastics and chemical industries as a raw material.
They "crack" the crude to produce useful chemicals for manufacturing. They separate out the useful chemicals from the mixture produced.
Once they have removed everything they need, there are two waste products, Tar, which they dispose of by putting it on road surfaces, and petrol. The same amount of petrol (subject to actual chemical composition of the crude) will be produced as a by-product by the chemical/plastics industry whether people use it in cars or not.
If we didn't take it off their hands, they would have to burn it to get rid of it.
ERGO - we are doing them a favour by disposing of their waste product!
Personaly I think they ought to pay US for their disposal job.
Quack!
Geoff the (ecologist) Duck.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Metchosin
Date: 14 May 04 - 01:38 AM

Blackcatter, why do you assume that just because JennyO drives a car that she doesn't do anything to help those in third world nations?

Just because you have a pretty big footprint, despite your scooter, I wouldn't assume that you don't care about third world poverty. For all I know you could be supporting 40 foster children in Ethiopia. In which case, good for you, to each his own, at his or her own level of comprehension, circumstance and ability.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 14 May 04 - 12:38 AM

Whatever.

Never said I need my computer. Don't use it much for business. I wear only natural fiber clothing - and yes I know that since I don't grow my own cotton / raise sheep, etc. I'd have trouble. But I wasn't talking about a post-apocolyptic world. I didn't say everything would be perfect. I said I'm basically ready if it should happen. Also ready for the upcomming hurricane season.

Nope, you all don't owe me an explanation but it's funny that you're willing to say only the things that you're seemingly happy about or things you blame other people or the government or whatever for.

Goats are fine - but be careful what you feed them if you want milk that is safe to drink.

And Jenny - just wanted to please you bu taking your generously-offered straight-line. Next time why don't you do something to help the people in third world nations that only wish they had a life like yours? Now THAT'd be something.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Amergin
Date: 13 May 04 - 11:17 PM

Dont forget the goat can mow the lawn...get rid of your rubbish...and all sorts of things....i may get a goat so i can live up to blackcatter's standards...

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 May 04 - 10:50 PM

LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: JennyO
Date: 13 May 04 - 09:55 PM

A good goat'll do that!

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 May 04 - 09:36 PM

on the other hand, the goat would probably do quite well.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 04 - 09:27 PM

May 19th is Do Not Buy A Drop Of Gas day. If everyone does this perhaps the greedy oil companies will feel it. How many people would be willing to take public transportation if it were more readily availabe? I would. Maybe if we weren't so dependent on oil imports from the Mideast, we'd have less problems with them. We fund their terrorism by buying their oil.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: JennyO
Date: 13 May 04 - 09:26 PM

Sorry Blackcatter, you can't have my goat - I need it. Did you notice how generously I fed you that line? I would have used it myself but I let you have it.

you an no one else have bothered to say whow you'd live if gas became impossible to get.

Poor dear - still labouring under the illusion that we owe you an explanation, when in reality it is none of your business.

Jenny (off to ruin the world with my evil motor car)

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Amergin
Date: 13 May 04 - 09:19 PM

No you wouldn't....your clothes (unnatural fibres) the plastics you use everyday (including that in your pc) the tyres on your scooter....and the list goes on....they all would be practically nonexistant without oil.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 13 May 04 - 09:05 PM

I've all ready got one - yours.

I never said that that test was accurate. Too short to do so. For instance, they probably penalized me for living by myself. Though I do it in an apartment of only 225 sq. ft. Less than half the lowest level they list (1 - 500) ft. Also, they many penalize me when I say that I primarily drive my motorcycle by myself. Problem is I have a scooter that could barely carry another person.

And I don't really care how you deal with the issues - you an no one else have bothered to say whow you'd live if gas became impossible to get. I know how I'd live - much the same as now.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: JennyO
Date: 13 May 04 - 08:49 PM

What in the hell gives you the right to consume some much of the world's resources?

And what in the hell gives you the right to pass judgment, Blackcatter? Come to think of it, my footprint was 6.9 - Yours was 8. What are YOU doing wrong? Maybe you need to get a goat.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 May 04 - 08:39 PM

Harold Bate didn't find it difficult, using methane that is, in fact what he manufactured was "sweet as a nut".

At least Spaw could run his own vehicle and never have to go near a gas station again.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 13 May 04 - 08:35 PM

True but the engines could be modified at the factory level or by a savvy mechanic. It is not an insurmountable problem. Sheer corporate greed by the oil companies keeps it from happening. Irish sergeant annoyed at gas prices and thinking horse drawn vehicles weren't such a bad idea

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 13 May 04 - 06:16 PM

The limitations with non-gasoline fuels are 1) Most current engines cannot use other feuls efficiatly. The are set up for the volitile nature of gas, the waste gases, and the aspiration of gas, among other things. Try to use anyhting other than gas in your car and you will likely be very unhappy with the results. 2) Even if you convert to using a renewable fuel, you are still creating a great deal of pollution.

I'm sure there's more too.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: GUEST,amergin
Date: 13 May 04 - 03:40 PM

true but some people just like the challenge...

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 May 04 - 03:35 PM

well as I said, a good goat will do that. But sheep are easier.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: GUEST,amergin
Date: 13 May 04 - 03:33 PM

a good goat makes a great sex partner...Little Hawk knows....and Brucie well he's been trying to get that goat to roll in the clover with him...

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 May 04 - 03:08 PM

Methane...methane is good..a good goat will do that too.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 13 May 04 - 02:52 PM

Absolutely right Black Catter. Here's a thought though, an internal combustion engine will run on anything that will produce a volatile vapor. Like. let's say, alcohol. the beauty of that is that alcohol can be made from almost anything including garbage. So why are we not doing it? Irish Sergeant

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 13 May 04 - 12:48 PM

Communism as it has been practiced is simply Capitalism where only a handful of people (the leaders of the government) effectivly own all the businesses. Basicall, monopolies on an extreme scale. Fascism is basically the same thing, it just allows for private ownership, but only the largest owners are allowed to make huge amounts of profit.

A true Communist structure would work except for all the lazy people who want things that they insist are absolutely needed even though 75% of the world survives without them.

What the hell would you all do if the Mid East went into such turmoil that almost no oil was able to be exported and gas went to the equivalent to $50 a gallon? Would you all die? Things that are necesities in my life are not things that help me keep my way of life stable - they are things that KEEP ME ALIVE.

What in the hell gives you the right to consume some much of the world's resources?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: robomatic
Date: 13 May 04 - 11:12 AM

If you're going to blame greedy capitalists, take a look at what greedy communists brought off, the most polluted industrial countries on the face of the earth.

Reason, state ran everything. No checks, no balances. Sort of like if the mafia ran the country, only less efficient.

Big oil in this country has big pockets. And they have a certain fear of big lawyers getting into them, so there actually is a sense of responsibility in the system, in addition to being staffed by hundreds of thousands of civilians who vote.

As for profit motive, if you are any good are you going to play for free? For very long?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: JennyO
Date: 13 May 04 - 11:00 AM

There we are - Metchosin has it - the answer is a goat!

Oh Little Hawk, where are you?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 May 04 - 10:26 AM

growing your own vegetables is good.

Myself, I think everyone should own a good goat.

Need milk? some tasty cheese? manure for a garden? transport by cart? A good goat will do that.

And if you live in an apartment, they can be trained to use the stairs if the elevator is out of order.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: JennyO
Date: 13 May 04 - 09:34 AM

I took the test, and my footprint was 6.9 in spite of the fact that I use my car. As I said before Blackcatter, not everyone is in a position to do without a car.

I use it because I have to, and in the process I make it possible for a lot of non-car drivers to get themselves and their things to places they could otherwise not go - I am always giving friends lifts to folk festivals, sessions etc. At least my friends have the good sense not to complain about my use of the evil motor car.

I chose work that allows me to work at home or close to my home.

Do you really think that everyone is free to make these choices? That's fine if you have, but that does not necessarily make you a better or a more thinking person. I'm not going to go into any details for you about why I need my car, but I do.

I'm not saying that we should not make an effort to conserve the world's resources - obviously we should, but there are many ways in which this can be done. I do my part in the ways that I am able.

If you think I'm self-righteous - tough.

Yes, and sounding more and more so. Getting people offside isn't going to help anything.

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 May 04 - 11:44 PM

Try this Ecological Footprint quiz:

Ecological Footprint Quiz

My "footprint" is 8, but I'm working to get it lower.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is gasoline so expensive?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 May 04 - 11:33 PM

Not to press a point, but that's a situation you either put yourself in or somehow were forced into. Don't know your situation, but where would you be 100 years ago?

Over 3/4ths of the world's population does not have a personal car. So just how much of a necessity is it for them?