Dear Mike Harding

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 12:37 PM

No need, she can sing. (Mind you, so could Capstick so that's shot me in the foot!).

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 10:35 AM

Betsy - Harding, Capstick, Connolly, Carrott and I'll chuck in Fred Wedlock and for good measure, became popular and were able to cross over to a wider audience because they were all comedians - talented comedians at that - and I've always thought they did a disservice to Folk by iniradicably (have I spelt that right?) linking their kind of humor to Folk in the eyes of the general public. It seems to have been very much a phenomenon of the '70's and I am glad its passed. Maybe June Tabor should try to be funnier? :-)

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: el ted
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 10:20 AM

Post no100. I thank you.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: el ted
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 10:19 AM

99

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 08:55 AM

Yes telerance is certainly the key. :-)

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: VIN
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 08:26 AM

As Harvey H has said, compared to other areas of these septic isles England, with a few exceptions, shows 'gross disinterest in it's own grass roots music and song, on Radio and especially Television'. Until this situation improves, the clubs, sessions/sing-a-rounds (& festivals) are that much more invaluable if the 'living tradition' is to 'live on'. Its also great to have smashin venues (in the N/west of England where i reside) like Pacific Road in Birkenhead, Bury Met, Neptune in Livepool, Playhouse in Shaw, Oldham Coliseum and the Lowry for the more establised artistes (& supports). At the end of the day its the music that matters!

So support the music and if someone is singing/playing out of tune, well so did some of thos people from whom the Carthys, Coes, Bellamys (gawd rest is soul) et al first collected from. At least they're tryin, and will hopefully relish constructive criticism and help, as i do. Telerance is the key! Sing/dance/play on folks!!

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 12:01 PM

Separate issues:

1. More dedicated folk music broadcasting on national radio - Perhaps take over the Sunday night World Music slot on R3
2. More exposure of the general public to quality UK folk music.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: treewind
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 11:07 AM

For the record, we are not doing anything Eurovision!
(help! this is how rumours start...)

Anahata

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 09:56 AM

Well, they get my vote any day...

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 08:58 AM

Oooooooh! I can just see Mary & Anahata winning mille points with The Young Banker....

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 08:35 AM

Just think of that group that disgraced themselves on Eurovision last year (mercifully I have forgotten their name, please do not remind me). How much airplay did they have BEFORE they sold 30,000 copies of anything...

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: pavane
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 08:07 AM

Mary Humphries & Anahata would, of course, have a better chance of selling 30,000 discs if they got some national airtime! (Yes I have seen them live)

It's the old catch-22 again. And yet we have people in the pop charts selling millions who a) can't sing in tune and b) write drivel anyway.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: John J
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 07:55 AM

I just think it would be nice to have a regular folk music & song programme featuring material from the British Isles rather than from other countries on national radio.

I've nothing against 'foreign stuff', but surely a folk programme from the British Broadcasting Corporation should feature British material. We've already got Andy Kershaw whose programmes feature music from other parts of the world, and very good he is too.

Many years ago, the BBC World Service used to broadcast 'These Musical Islands', a superb programme even if it was on at somthing daft like 03.00!

John

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Dan Abnormal
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 07:56 AM

Yes, MH show (and remember it is 'The Mike Harding show', not 'The Mike Harding folk show' or even 'folk on two') has a wide remit, but no wider than others on radio 2 and certainly narrower than most. Their remit is stated in the trailers - "The best in Folk, Roots, and Acoustic music". I don't think those three words are that far apart - the problem with most people seems to be the "best" bit which is so obviously subjective. Compare that to Stuart Marconie and "the best music of all time, from every genre there is".

John Leonard et al are really not part of some sinister conspiricy to deprive you of your favourite music - they have successfully managed to get the BBC to fund the Folk Awards, are responsible for the a lot of the programmes on BBC4, got the BBC to take folk a lot more seriously (internally at least) and have done a very good job over the last seven odd years. OK, people may grumble that only "names" get played/promoted, but those people became names by selling tens of thousands of records and so proving to the controller of BBC4 that they deserved a whole hours airtime devoted to a concert of them. When Mary Humphries and Annahata sell 30 thousand records they will get a concert broadcast on BBC4, I guarantee it.

I agree, MH doesn't speak for me either, but at least he has a national radio show that anybody can stumble across and discover the music. What we need is a new Andy Kershaw on Radio 1 to be exciting and vibrant and reflect what I (as a 20something music fan) think is good about this music.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 06:53 AM

Right - I launched two identical threads on the BBC Radio Message Boards (one on "Folk & Acoustic" and one on the general board) on the subject of getting more airtime for folk.

It would be good if some of us followed through with a discussion there on the subject. But PLEASE avoid rehashing the Mike Harding/Smooth Operations "good"/"Bad" arguments. These have already been aired there and the known response was already elicited. Stay on the subject of more airplay, please.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: selby
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 04:03 AM

I find myself agreeing with JTT (although I am not the one to do it)perhaps there should be a proggramme generated out of mudcat.

When the BERFF of which MH is patron struggled a couple of years ago mudcatters in the area joined forces and put together a VERY VERY succesful alternative which is now part of the new BERFF line up.

I suspect the thread creep would then be what would be included but a new thread of the UK mudcat radio show may give MH ideas.

I suspect that with 86 postings to this debate that MH probably views us all as a minor irritation anyway.
Keith

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: harvey andrews
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 12:47 PM

In all my travels,there is no country other than England (Not U.K. or G.B.) I said England , shows the gross disinterest in it's own grass roots music and song, on Radio and especially Television.

Agreed, as I mentioned on another thread there was not one representation of English cultural heritage on the Queen's Jubilee concert.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 12:36 PM

I haven't heard the programme - it's on at a tricky time for me. So I can't comment on its material. But I can put a word in for Mike Harding himself.

I spent a week at a course in Donegal which he was also attending. Every night he'd be down in the pub, drinking slowly and playing quickly. He was a brilliant singer and musician, and also courteous and kind. There was absolutely no side to him. It was only five days into the week that someone told me he was well known.

Presenting a programme isn't something you do with an assumed personality. You have to play it as it lies, with the personality God gave you! So if Mike's funny, it's because that's the way he is. A more serious programme would just need someone with a different personality.

In the few days I knew him, it was obvious that his funny side enriched a genuine and deep scholarship in music and tradition.

But the people who are posting here have a point - there's obviously a place for a programme about *English* (which I assume is what people mean by British, really? If not, then English, Scottish and Welsh) folk music.

What about people writing to the BBC and requesting that such a programme should be tried? No need to be giving out about Mike Harding's programme - it's a big station! - they'd have room for two folk programmes!

Of course, if I'm picking up the implications of these postings correctly, the BBC is now buying in its programmes. In that case, it would probably be a good idea to try to interest both the BBC and independent companies - perhaps including Mike Harding's own company - in a programme about English music.

You might even call the programme St George's Day!

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 11:10 AM

The younger generation are exposed to many more types of music than the majority of the "oldies" in the folk clubs ever were, from a much wider media output.

They don't feel the need to limit their listening to one particular genre at the expense of others. They don't categorize their listening pleasure to such an extent that their ears are closed to anything new and refreshing.

Late Junction as mentioned above by a few, is an excellent show with a varied output, and high listener numbers. Maybe they ARE providing what people want.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: GUEST,GUEST. Smooth Operator
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 10:43 AM

Got it! Betsy is Mike Harding in disguise. Will the real Mike Harding please stand up? Oh, but he is already.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Betsy
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 09:39 AM

Eric-I can't argue with your reference to Jim Lloyd.
As I 've looked back over the thread - it seems like the faceless anonymous Smooth Ops indeed appear to be the baddie.
But we fall into our old trap with your comparison to Smooth Ops.and C/W - surely our whole problem is in the music we support " Folk " has many more avenues than the rigid channel which is C/W ( a form of "music" , which, I personally cannot abide ) so it is a relatively easy ride to produce "good" C/W.
If I read correctly in Mudcat, MH is at WHITBY this year.
No harm in asking / inundating the Organisers for requests (NOW) for Mike to hold a Question / Answer Session - it truly is a subject which is causing problems throughout the folk scene in G.B. and needs to be addressed.
In all my travels,there is no country other than England (Not U.K. or G.B.) I said England , shows the gross disinterest in it's own grass roots music and song, on Radio and especially Television.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 08:39 AM

Smooth Operations who are the prodution Co. keep telling us that the mandate from the BBC is to include EVERYTHING, if so ? why does no other programme have such a wide remit ?
I believe Smooth Operations are the ones to blame, when the BBC itself produced this programme under the title Folk On 2 [ it is now called the Mike Harding Show ] presented by Jim Lloyd it was a lot closer to what we think it ought to be now.
Nick Barraclough has just won an award for presenting his C/W show, if Smooth Ops can do it with country I'm bloody sure they could do it with folk, why doesn't Nick's show have as wide a remit as Mike's ? I think Mike and john Leonard are doing just what they want to do regardless of real folk music listeners.
Get rid of Smooth Operations, who are they anyway ?
eric

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Betsy
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 08:00 AM

It has been an interesting topic - and improvisations have been useful - especially in reading Greko, Villain, Eric, Johnny, Les's recent views.
Countess Dick, although he is some sort of writer, appears not to be able to differentiate between my statement in the interrogative, and, an accusation - "You don't perform then ????" is a simple question, as, to (that) date he had not established whether he did or not .
Enough of that - back to the Thread.
There is one problem area here, if any of us ran a show in place of MH I suspect there would still be a great group of objectors as to our content.
MH isn't the problem - the Producer / Director or whatever his function, - Jon Leonard maybe / probably is, the problem.
Having said that, we don't know what the politics / string pulling / bullshit he's had to endure, or commitments he's had to make to the BBC to get funding / the show on the radio.
I'm (repeating myself) thinking in terms of him possibly having to give assurances that it will have an international appeal etc. etc. to justify funding.
We simply don't know - but there IS something on National radio at which we can have a moan or otherwise.
On the overall scheme of clubs, MH, Barbara Dickson, Billy Connolly, Tony Capstick, Christy Moore, Maddy Prior, June Tabor, Jasper Carrott etc. etc. etc. were ALL floor singers ONCE, that's where they started and became very hard working Fulltime Folk Club performers. They didn't start at the Top.
Everyone has to start somewhere.
I hope some of you get to sit down and have a chat with MH sometime - a more knowledgeable and pleasant person you are unlikely to meet , and it would be a delight - if he took some of your views on board.
Finally, Strolling Johnny - if you get in touch with me - I would be pleased to help you out - as I could ask for no higher compliment, for which I thank you.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 06:53 AM

Makes Mike's,programme seem like the home of musical anarchy

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 06:53 AM

Well, we have Doctorates of folk, and Professors, so why not...

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 06:47 AM

Tests. Graduates. Folk Music. Oh God what have we come to?

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 06:37 AM

I reckon thats where I am coming from.

A spotlight, with maybe a top artist once every two/three months, with supporting artists from the spotlight side, who are good enough to support the guest. I have to find my feet first. I do have Bill Whaley and David Fletcher as guests on June the 4th.

From what I can see folk clubs such as Gainsborough/Louth/Lincoln are doing excellent work with the singaround approach. I am planning to visit Barton on Humber in a couple of weeks time.

All I can say is, there is room for everybody, but I don't understand all the bickering. Everybody should pull together and support each other in whatever way they choose to operate.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 05:52 AM

That's precisely how the St Albans Windward and Spotlight clubs operate, Villan.

The Spotlight, on Sundays, gives everyone the chance to have a floorspot, and instead of a guest, every Sunday one of the floorsingers gets a chance to "feature" 30 mins of their material. This gives them the opportunity to practice putting and holding together a substantial set.

While Windward on Fridays - more expensive - books quality guests and picks and chooses the supporting floorsingers.

Any newbie approaching Breezy (who runs both of the above) for a chance, will usually get the standard response "come on a Sunday, let's hear you, and we'll see". This has produced already a handful of very worthy singer/players who have "graduated" to the Friday event.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 05:42 AM

I understand your point Eric.
I still think there should be clubs that accomodate beginners, but at the same time there should be clubs, that encourage the better performers, or performers who are ready to move into the floorspot situation.
Once we stop arguing over that situation, then we all move on and recognise each club for the value that they give to the folk world.

In my simple world, I see the following (I know a few won't agree) :-

Feeder clubs that encourage beginners as well as singers who are reasonably good or indeed very good. They are the nucleaus of the folk world.

Support clubs that allow artists to develop their skills at a higher level by doing floor spots of 10 to 40 minutes depending on their level. I believe these clubs, should take care to ensure that the artists are capable of performing in front of a listening audience.

Top Artist Clubs. as it says.

I also believe that you can do a mix of above but have to take great care about the listeners.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 05:31 AM

Thread-creep again. But consider this situation, eric the red:
Aspiring talented newbie (never mind age) is considering whether to ask to sing/play later, while listening to God-awful floorsinger boring pants of all present. If he/she hears criticism at that stage, he/she (the newbie) may well stand down and not ask to take a turn (then or ever). What a loss, eh? And all for the sake of a few minutes of cringing...I'd rather suffer the God-awful, to give courage to the newbie.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 05:25 AM

In folk clubs and sessions we have always been far too generous to poor perfomers and people who come to sing songs they can't get an audience anywhere else for.
It works against us a lot of the time, I've seen people come to listen and hear a poor singer mumbling and stuttering over songs he has been performing for twenty years or more, these people will never return, put off folk music forever. A line has to be drawn somewhere.
eric

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 04:36 AM

for "got" read "for"...and for "the" read "to" - what's wrong with me this morning...

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 04:34 AM

Countess
One thing I do agree on is that the artists should be able to sing and play their instruments. For listeners, there is nothing worse than hearing somebody who plainly can't do either.
As to what they sing, well that is up to them. The audience needs to go home happy.
Last week I had 10 artists on (a lot I know)but we kept a tight time schedule and it worked. I have not heard any adverse comments from artists or listeners.
Having said that, singrounds perform a necesary function in the folk world. It allows everybody to have a go. Without that, there are a lot of people who today are very good, who would not have made it.
I think the people who run the folk clubs have to decide for themselves how it should be run, and stick to it. There is room for everybody.
Oh yes, everybody has the choice of not going to a folk club if it is not what they like, but please please, do not criticise. Everybody is doing their best whatever level that may be. Everybody needs to be encouraged whatever level they are at.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 04:32 AM

OK, Countess, I slept and feel less ornery myself this morning - sorry if I showed some claws (friends?). I was also guilty of thread-creep, let's get back to the topic.

I still think we are all agreeing with various degrees of violence ;-) What we get today on national media is not good enough. We vary as to who's to blame, and how to get it better.

I agree about the varying quality of different folk clubs, and also that a regular "live" show might not be the best way forward for that reason (although an occasional good snippet from a club, showing off Herga's or Sharp's "wall of sound" for example, might be in order, just by way of advertisement). The club scene has to (and will) continue its way, working on the participatory and inclusive aspects of folk, which is most important got its continuance and well-being.

So, the question is: What is a good/useful role for the media to play in the furtherance of folk? And how can we get them to fulfill that role?

For the first question, I offer the following:

a) Media can be the "glue" for the regional aspect of folk (trad and contemporary). Variety is the theme here. Let me in London hear Ciaran Dorris from Glasgow, let the Orkneys hear Mike Nicholson from Kent or Ben Campbell from Devon, etc etc

b) Media can promote the young, up and coming talent - on a regular basis, not just an annual award. (That would also help bring the yung'uns in, though that's not the reason why I suggest it here).

c) Media can advertise clubs, show occasional snippets, help get people off their backs and participate

As for how the achieve it:

Complain, write, demonstrate, let the "names" make the point when interviewed, grizzle, moan - at the media, not the poor presenter who stuck his/her head over the parapet. And then do it again.

And again.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 04:31 AM

Someone (and it might also have been Mr. Carthy) also said "All songs are sung by folk, therefore all songs are Folk Songs". Time will tell (although I doubt I'll be around to find out!).
:0)

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 04:11 AM

Martin Carthy said - it's simple, it comes out of somones mouth and goes in someone elses ear. They either like it or they don't.

Maybe it's time for someone to put the toy's back in certain prams and start another thread

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 04:03 AM

El Greko,

I know and like your work but I've never seen you perform live, either because I couldn't get there or didn't want to go (to the venue, you understand, not to see you!) This is way off topic and belongs rather in the recent 'Are Folk Clubs Crap?' thread but since you asked...

What deters me is that benighted legion of cliquey inverted snobs inhabiting the outmoded 'club scene' who insist on inflicting a full 45 minutes of unrehearsed, amateurish garbage on punters who have paid £6 or so for an artist they have waited a long time to see. Many's the time I have dragged along a 'non-folk' person who has listened to the guest artist's CD only to have them vow never to enter a 'folk club' again after such an appalling and depressing experience.

In another recent thread it was suggested that the MH show should be broadcast direct from a folk club, to which someone replied that this was not perhaps the best way to interest the general public. Too right.   Unless maybe it was Sharps (which is one of only two on your list that I have visited recently). This is primarily a singers' club and you just don't get on if you're not good.

Which brings me to one of Betsy's accusations: that I'm not a performer. Wrong, but rarely nowadays because I feel I'm not good enough. I'm no more than a 'competent' musician in that 'damned with faint praise' sense and don't have enough time to rehearse properly.   I'll play in a session, which is where the majority of aforementioned 'floor volunteers' should confine themselves, if not to their locked bedrooms, for a quite a while longer.

In yet another recent thread I wrote in defence of the Twickenham club which, although its booking policy is not always to my taste, is at least run efficiently and professionally. The complainant appently couldn't get a floor spot there. One can only wonder why - all the support acts I have seen there have been excellent and well-chosen and have interested me enough to seek out a full set from them.

In short, if you persist in presenting a hotch-potch of MOR crap, whether on the MH show or its downmarket equivalent on the club scene, it is hardly surprising if the public at large continues to fail to recognise the worth of our cultural inheritance and think, with some justification, that 'folk music' is a joke. I'm for the venue (or broadcaster) who promotes music relevant to how we live today regardless of genre, that tells our story and encourages our present population to add to it, with the only proviso being that it is *good*.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 03:59 AM

Hey Betsy, where can I hear the song? I'd love to add it to my repertoire. I'm in agreement with you, El Greko, Vin, and Villan. Folk Clubs aren't damaged by the enthusiastic amateurs, or by the 'beginners', or by someone occasionally doing 'Streets Of London', but they ARE damaged by the Folk Nazis who try to lay their own petty, self-conceived rules on a musical genre that evolved naturally, without any rules, over centuries. Mind you, the Nazis tried to rule the roost in the middle of the last century didn't they, and look what happened to them. Elitist Extremists never learn the lesson that history repeatedly gives them because their psyche is such that they're incapable of understanding the simple fact that they don't have a God-given monopoly on being right.

Countess, you may be a writer (come on, identify yourself so we can check that claim out) but being a writer lends no greater validity to YOUR opinions than anyone else's expressed in this thread, and others I've read on a similar theme. I assume you've heard of a tome entitled 'Mein Kampf', or perhaps even read it (I have)? Lots and lots of words - absolute tripe. Sound like anyone we know?

Oh, and Mike, if you're reading this (although God knows why you should bother!) - take no notice of the moaners, it's really easy to criticise but far more difficult to deliver. They'll only be happy when you've been driven out and it's wall-to-wall Westlife and Christina Aguilera. Oh joy!

IMHO
Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 02:52 AM

Hey Countess Richard
Somebody just posted this in the Folk Mafia thread. Was one of them you in the shiny suit running the club. I say that becuase with your attitude, thats the way the folk clubs are going. Get a life and encourage people in irrespective of it is Trad or contemporary. I certainly wont run my folk club as a purely traditional event, and I will allow yougsters to show us old fogies what they are made of. Sometimes people grow old and live in a cuckoo world. You sound just like that. Anyway this was the post.

Once in Chicago I got hired to perform in a club, union scale. Went to the club. No one there but a couple of guys wearing shiny suits and gold rings with big diamonds. They kept to them selves, so did I. Did three sets, got paid. Did this for three or four weeks. Came to the club one evening. It had a new name. Same guys. Did my thing, got paid. This went on for three or four weeks. Came to the club one evening, it had yet another name. I played in five or six clubs that year, all in the same location. Never could figure out what was going on.

CB

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 07:11 PM

Oh, and before I get accused of illiteracy: I recognise my mistake in missing the "to" in my hurry, in the first sentence.

And I know the story of Countess Richard - I wonder if all the excellent guests we had this season in our clubs did. Should they be vetted?

I can't be blamed for lacking in multiculturalism either - not with my background, musical as well as otherwise.

Do I pass?

Though I might fail the musicality criterion.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 07:02 PM

What a lot of words being used in this thread for us all to agree (violently) that Mike's 1 hour on Radio 2 is not enough expose/promote adequately all facets of folk!

OK, some prefer to blame Mike himself for that; and others (like me) blame the BBC for not giving folk enough airtime. And some are fans of Mike and his (undoubted) contribution as a performer, and are offended by the remarks of the former. And suddenly the language and tone of the thread deteriorates to levels unworthy of the topic and of us all. Betsy, though I agreed with you on who's to blame, you were the first to lash out with the "R-soles" etc; and Countess, you were a bit too quick to respond with the "wanker persuation". Can we all take a back step?

Countess, I don't believe we have met (if we have, and I don't recognise or remember, I apologise). Which are the venues that you say are "more congenial...(and) ... where exciting music and dance flourish"? Me, I just go to Herga, Maidenhead, St Albans, and have occasionally ventured into Sharp's, St Neots, Stortfolk, Twickenham, Bedford, Ampthill and Staines around London. As well as to Folk on the Moor in Devon, the Open Door in Manchester, Seaford in Sussex etc.

Are these not in the list of your favourites? Was I misguided or misinformed in enjoying my evenings there - both singers nights and guest nights? Where should I go to get better?

Or am I too of the persuasion you mentioned, and you'd rather I kept clear?

I just want to know where I might be in your books, you understand.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:19 PM

Clearly unversed in Child #68 then...nor in multicultural tolerance, musicality or basic literacy.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Betsy
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 01:34 PM

Countess Richard says " I have been writing about music ............in for more years than (myself) claims to have had an involvement". I'm 56 years old and first sang in a Folk club as an under-aged 17 year old - is that good enough for you.???
I note you say nothing about performance - you don't perform then ??????
I, of the " the wanker persuasion " as you infer,wrote the words , music, sing and play (fingerstyle) the following song, EXCATLY about arrogant Twats like you.

THE    CRITIC                                    
                                                
HE COULDN'T SING, HE COULDN'T CLOWN,
NO, - HIS ART IT WAS IN PUTTING PEOPLE DOWN,
HE COULDN'T PLAY, BUT HE COULD WRITE,
AND WITH HIS PEN HE WENT AND BROKE A HEART LAST NIGHT.

HE SITS ALONE, WITH BLINKERED VIEW,
DOESN'T KNOW THE HOURS OF PRACTISE PEOPLE DO,
TO PLAY THE SONGS, - TO GET 'EM RIGHT,
HE SIMPLY TOOK HIS PEN AND BROKE A HEART LAST NIGHT.

CHORUS /REFRAIN                                                                              
                                       
WELL IT'S A MYSTERY TO ME., - HOW THE CRITIC" FORMED" YOUR MEMORY,
NOW ARE YOU TELLING ME, YOUR EYES AND EARS DECIEVED YOU!
                                       3.
HE NEVER HEARD THE CROWDS' APPLAUSE,
AND AS THEY MADE THEIR EXIT THROUGH THE THEATRE DOORS,
HE NEVER SHARED THEIR WILD DELIGHT,
INSTEAD, HE TOOK A PEN AND BROKE AHEART LAST NIGHT.

                                        4.
TO READ HIS WORDS - THEY MADE NO SENSE,
THEY NEVER MATCHED OUR RECOLLECTION OF EVENTS,
ONLY FOOLS BELIEVE, WHAT BIGGER FOOLS WRITE !,               
TAKE CARE THE CRITIC'S BREAKING HEARTS AGAIN TONIGHT.,   

(Almost repeat of the previous 2 lines:-)
ONLY FOOLS BELIEVE, WHAT BIGGER FOOLS WRITE !,
TAKE CARE THE CRITIC'S CHANGING MINDS AGAIN TONIGHT.

It has also been recorded by people I regard as good performers in the Folk scene - and I am honoured that they have done so in addition to other songs I 've written.

Fortunately you don't go to Folkclubs these days - no matter - I can still bear the duffers , the learners ( bless 'em ) and all the other "bad" things to which you allude , but we live like Vin Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:53 AM ( above ) in the hope that we occasionally get to see the quality of "Roy Bailey finishing the night off".

You are obviously putting nothing into folkclubs and consequently getting nothing out of it.
As a cross section of society - they're a fairly wacky and mixed bunch,but I've never known any to permit or encourage even the mildest of drugs - and they are fairly well adept at mixing well with each other, albeit on occasions, accompanied by a surfeit of Good old beer.

Finally , can I suggest to a educated pen as you profess to be,that you review and adjust your name so that the gender matches the undoubted masculine name of Richard .
When you have done so, then remove the "O" from the remining Count - and I reckon that should be "about right" as they say in these parts.

Enjoy the English Opera - that's appears to be more your "bag".

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Mike Harding YUK!!!!!!
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:33 AM

Thats all I've got to say realy....people who are meant to be folk music enthusiasts fronting shows they have no imput into Yuk!!!!!!!
Lets not mention Paul Jones YUK!!!! another breadhead mercenary

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:24 AM

Or, Mike can displease some of the people all the time and displease
all the people some of the time, he dissapoints me ALL the time, or his radio programme does.
When Mike used to do the folk clubs [ before 'e got famous ]he was a really good entertainer.
Someone on the BBC radio 2 folk/country message board has put Mike's name forward to be the ' Patron Saint ' of folk music, as being canonised requires one to be deceased I [ reluctantly ] could not agree.
eric

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: VIN
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:53 AM

Oh dear Countess Richard & Betsy - calm down! I went to a folk club xtravaganza at the w/end (Open Door club in Failsworth) which had the usual floor singer (including me) sing-a-rounds and special guests i.e Slide, Brian Willoughby and Kathryn Craig and Roy Bailey finishing the night off - brilliant day/eve/nights entertainment but not enough people there! Shame.

As i've said, i'm sure M.H does the best he can etc.....as the saying goes you can please some of us folkies all of the time, all of us folkies some of the time but............

Live and let live and enjoy the music/song/dance!

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:42 AM

Yo countess I love it when you talk dirty, but I also agree with everything you said.
eric

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 07:52 PM

Some people, for reasons best known to themselves, wallow in dumbed-down farce, variety and pantomime and care nothing for musicianship or respect for the tradition. In failing to recognise the distinction between the necessity to value our heritage and those conventions which can, and indeed often should, be broken they are stifling the life out of traditional music in their cliquey little 'sing-songs' and outright refusal to countenance those artists who are devising new and fresh ways to present the music as relevant to how we live today and giving it the impetus to survive and thrive.

They are the reason why I rarely go to 'folk clubs' nowadays as - with few notable exceptions - these are so depressing, unwelcoming and sterile: the same under-rehearsed, embarrassing crap from residents and floor singers, same duff notes, mondegreens and tired, unfunny jokes. There are infinitely more congenial venues which those of the wanker persuasion thankfully don't go near and where exciting music and dance flourish.

And this is the kind of material that needs to be presented during the sole hour which the BBC - through an outsourced production company - deigns to schedule for 'folk and acoustic' music if the public at large is even to consider reimbracing our cultural inheritance as an art form in which they can take pride.   Not Celtic pretentiousness and sub-Nashville tat - those who actually want to listen to this have plenty of opportunities to do so across a plethora of networked output.

It's problematical to decipher just what the person Betsy is attempting to convey by ' R-soles like you go wamping on about pure Tradition'. Peculiar choice of words. Suffice to say that I have been writing about music in anywhere but the Tory press for more years than she claims to have had an involvement in it and I can safely say that I have never used the words 'pure' and 'tradition' together. That would scarcely be logical. I do have a concern over the image problem the music undoubtedly has among the wider population which is in no way enhanced by the demeaning charabanc- party, pseudo-jolly amateurism Betsy and her ilk seem hell-bent on purveying.

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 02:28 PM

I live in Canada and listen to Mike Harding via the digital offering of last week's show on Radio 5's website. Non-Brits click here and judge for yourself: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/r2music/folk/harding/?focuswin. I think it's pretty good, what do you think?

Subject: RE: Dear Mike Harding
From: Betsy
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 02:18 PM

Countess Richard - you write like a stuck-up Tory Tart - especially with your preoccupation with his pay cheque amd image making of Folk.
I've been enjoying going to Folk clubs for over 35 years , heard some great stuff and heard loads of shite.
That's it in a nut shell, that's how it was, is, and will be. Enjoyment/humour/ a good sing-song is all part of it - but not always possible , but when Mike and Bob and numerous others sought and seek to entertain in the Folk medium, R-soles like you go wamping on about pure Tradition .
Zealots like you emptied the Folk clubs - not so the previous guys I've mentioned - you do them a great disservice Madame.