BS: TSA groping your junk

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 01:51 AM

Since I believe in absolutely minimizing my exposure to X-rays, I would definitely go for the "hands-on" examination as opposed to being scanned by the machine. I am not perturbed about a doctor, male or female, briefly examining the area of my body around my genitals, so why should I worry about an airport security person briefly doing it? It's hardly what I would call a potentially "erotic" situation... ;-)

If it bothers you that much, try lobbying your government to pull its military people out of the Muslim nations, dismantle its bases in those nations, stop propping up corrupt Muslim dictators who happen to be American Allies, let the Muslins market their own oil without USA corporate control, and stop backing Israel unilaterally all the time.

Not that I think your government will pay the slightest attention to your lobbying in that regard...but at least you'd be addressing the real problem at hand rather than fussing around over secondary symptoms and aftereffects of the real problem.

Kendall - Good point! ;-) Our family jewels are NOT junk!

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:48 AM

(thanks, that's not anything I would have thought I'd learn about today!)

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:46 AM

Amos the video you linked is misleading.
The detail of the topical X ray is so detailed it shows the inner lips of the vagina or the circumcision fold. IT will show the fine lines around your eyes. Indeed the monitor can be adjusted to pixilate to the point of minute detail or mega block pixels.

But all the vanity issues aside, the options for children are dreadful. The options for flight crew are still under review.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:25 AM

no it is like an alcohol swab   , they then run it in a machine :-)

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:42 PM

You must look sneaky, Dan!


Does the swab-juice change colors?
If the guy was rolling his own chair, he probably had all kinds of crap on his hands..

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:37 PM

Melissa
the swap is a test for gun power or chemicals used for explosives. They say they do that a random, well they do it to me nearly every time LOL ... and I am one of the good guys geeze!!

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Amos
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:36 PM

They swabbed his hands to determine if he had been handling explosive chemicals. These poor bastards are stuck between a rock and a hard place--not a good place if you don't have the imagination to find your way out.


A

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:15 PM

Why did they swab the wheelchair man's hands?


Does it make sense for the Talkers to say images can't be saved while showing images that were saved?

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:05 PM

Perhaps our thinking is completely wrong. The only other reason for setting up such a system would be to capture and store images for facial recognition and tracking. How great a database could that create after several years. In addition you can capture and track everything. Run a pattern match on this ear ... foot, hand ... what a tool that would make ... they would pay anything for that data. Oh yea tell everyone we don't store the images

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:09 PM

As far as a gun goes the current metal detectors do a fine job at that. The only thing this technology brings to the table is in the case of a non metal knife (one of the composite blades) However, no one would bring one cause they could steal a real one ... the whole concept is nonsense but sure costing a ton of money. I would have been much happier with a 35K sniffer myself

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:58 PM

From what I just been reading all over the place Bill the images I showed are correct. Now they are not suppose to do invert but you know someone is doing it

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:55 PM

hmmm... those ARE more graphic... I had no idea they could do that. I also have no idea how they can guarantee 'no copies' get saved and distributed...

If that's the usual quality, I foresee big problems.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:54 PM

I think maybe the ones used in media stories are fuzzed-over to save us from viewing 'inappropriate images'..

looks like a naked guy


knee replacement, nipple ring, wheelchair, and prosthesis
nice, clear view of a butt near the end

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:34 PM

before and after "invert" full body scan
invert

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:13 PM

I wonder how much money some folks are making on this. As I pointed out it does nothing to stop anything as the bad guys can steal or buy what they need afterwords. The reasoning I heard was the underwear bomber. A hand held or rack mounted explosive sniffer (military grade) is 35,000 dollars as opposed to a multi million dollar full body scanner. So where is the tax dollar going under the illusion we are safer? So you keep a guy from bringing in a knife, and he walks down the hall and steals one from the restaurant ... so where exactly does the justification for the multi million dollar scanner come in

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:02 PM

But when a couple of TSA agents start smirking and making comments and whispering their whatevers when the hot young girl went into the full body scanner as I mentioned in my thread recently .. then I question the quality of the people we have manning these things.

TSA agents monitoring the scanners should be able to see the scanned images, and only the scanned images. They should work in some sort of enclosure that prevents them from knowing anything about a passenger other than what the scanner reveals. The offensive behavior Dan describes would be eliminated if the agents hadn't seen the young lady before she entered the scanner. The scanner may show an image that's recognizable as a 5'6" female, but it doesn't show whether or not she's attractive. She could be a movie star or your Aunt Bertha. If an agent is going to drool over one woman's scanned image, it's going to be because he decided she was a hottie before she walked into the machine.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:53 PM

LOL the old car hasn't been parked yet Captain LOL

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: kendall
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:46 PM

From what I've read, this sort of thing is against the Muslim's religion. The rule applies to all, so will Muslims refuse to fly? Would that help solve the problem?

Little Hawk, you are right on the money!

I can't speak for anyone else but I don't consider my naughty bits to be junk!

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:44 PM

have a look at the after invert images ... she is completely in her glory

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:41 PM

crap ... my link doesn't work .. type in "body scanner" in google. It looks to me like Amos's links are before full rendering which is what they do ... the images Google show are pretty graphic ...

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:38 PM

Bill this example seems a lot more graphic

scanner

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:31 PM

After looking at the video Bill, I now have to agree with you .. pretty much nothing offensive that I can see.   I will still question their effectiveness as the only real security can be made when one enters the tunnel to get on the plane. If we still let the bad guys steal or buy anything they need inside the gate the security is useless.

At the very least instead of the scanner that costs so much money, a sniffer inside the tunnel would be far more effective. They are quite inexpensive and extremely accurate for detecting explosives. Likewise assuming anyone at anytime can bring a sharp edged weapon on board regardless of entrance security, have people on board trained to handle it .. far more effective

Subject: Frequent radiation from TSA scanners
From: Genie
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:29 PM

I'm not concerned about my bulbous naughty parts being seen by some TSA agent, but I am concerned about the possible ill effects of being scanned by those machines 10 times a year or more.   The input I've heard and read from experts tells me that the safety of such frequent exposure has not been demonstrated.

I also don't believe the scanners will prevent a terrorist blowing up a plane, so I think it's a great inconvenience, invasion of privacy -- we're going to have teenagers undergo virtual strip searches too? --, and potential serious health risk, without really making us safe anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:27 PM

I take at least four flights a year - twice a year I fly to the UK to visit family and friends. Whilst I am aware that the likelihood of being on a plane targeted by terrorists, that possibility does exist.

I would choose the scan to the body search - I had that once when the metal detector went off - and I'll take my chances with the radiation risk. If that is what I have to go through to make my visits to and from the UK so be it.

I must admit that some TSA staff tend to be very dictatorial and could maybe do with learning some people skills. However, there is little option, if one wishes to travel, than to deal with it all with as good grace as possible, particularly, for me, when the alternative is not to visit with my family on a regular basis.

If TSA staff are proved to be abusing their positions then action needs to be taken. Otherwise, find another means of transport because the likelihood of making changes by protesting is less than a snowball's chance in hell and you'll probably invite the ire of fellow passengers who get held up while you are making a fuss.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:25 PM

Dan...see the link from Amos a way back.. Unless there are better ones, I think it is folks imaginations taking over.

I remember when I was young they had 'scares' about "X-ray glasses".

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 06:47 PM

Bill your point is well taken, as I never saw one I probably shouldn't comment ... I have only heard the outrage on TV that they are clear but I suppose it is the type of scanner they are using who knows ... You make an excellent point however and I do stand corrected as I have not seen one in action

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 06:42 PM

?? I looked at a couple of the examples of scans done on those machines, and I must say I don't 'see' much...certainly nothing that would identify an individual. It is blurry, vague and only barely indicates general body parts/shapes. I cannot comprehend how anyone could work up a 'prurient interest' in blurry gray blobs. I suppose someone wearing 'falsies' might be reluctant to be detected as less well-endowed than they pretend....but sheesh, unless you are famous, who cares?

Now, that opinion has little to do with my take on whether the scans are necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 06:37 PM

Well in the meantime if it were up to me every flight attendant along with their full safety training would know hand to hand and sharp edged weapons . Flight 93 never would have gone down if that were the case.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 05:54 PM

I don't give a damn if some airline security employee feels around my genital region as long as they do it gently. It is invasive? Yeah. But it's not a big deal, it doesn't last long, and I don't see why I should let it give me a conniption fit if I want to travel by air.

There is no way to make life totally safe against Muslim terrorism except THIS: Get the hell out of the Muslim countries, stop dominating and terrorizing them with our armies, navies, and air power, stop supporting Israel unilaterally on its every action, stop propping up hated Muslim governments in countries like Egypt, let the Muslim nations market their own oil exactly as they wish to, for whatever currency they wish to (Euro? Yuan?), and leave them the hell alone from now on.

Do those things, and you will see an end to Muslim terrorism attacks against the USA, Canada, and Western Europe, because those attacks have arisen out of anger over OUR terrorism and interference in the lives of Muslim populations ever since the end of WWII.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 05:23 PM

I would have to do it many times Mrrzy I taught instructors to the instructors. When I fly the people all around me are much safer, they just don't know it. We need more security onboard that is the real answer

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 05:14 PM

In Larry Niven's future you have to register as a lethal weapon if you know martial arts...

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 05:08 PM

I could go on and on with a lot worse. I know a thing or two about security and I won't because I not going to give some bad guys ideas but the system is broken. The scanners give us a false sense of fuzzy. Making the old lady take off her dead husband's wedding ring ain't going to stop any bad guys .. some more shuttle things are needed for real security ... the best of all is have some guys trained who know what they are doing riding in that plane

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:59 PM

And the fact of the matter is "you are not safer" the system leaks like a faucet ... ok how is this, you pass through the scanner, go to your gate, fly to some location and wait for a connecting flight. Go get a steak dinner and steal a knife ... you are now on board the next flight with a real knife as a weapon .. does that make sense?? You are not rescanned unless you leave the secure area right ... no one is safer because of it. unless they want to shut down every restaurant inside the gates

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:52 PM

Post above re having a machine showing only "hardware" - that would be useless since the explosives are not "hard"; only a pin-sized insert and a transmitter elsewhere can cause a pretty good "ka-boom," and not the comic strip type, either.

Pat me down, baby, I don't care.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:43 PM

And what is next for guys like me ... well ya know you are a master in many forms of Marshal arts .. hence you now have to wear handcuffs and leg irons to fly? so where does it stop

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:36 PM

The entire airport is covered head to toe with video .. you cannot pull into the parking lot or walk to the restroom without being on candid camera .. ok .. fair enough .. so why the hell is there not one pointed at the TSA agents .. Why didn't some supervisor come out and say, I want to see you two in my office right now ... Well you see - power tends to do what? that old saying is

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:32 PM

Well dollars to donuts the little blond college girl they were drooling over is probably now on some website .. that is what I mean who is watching the watchers

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: gnu
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:29 PM

Scans are being copied and pirated to some sick webbastards? Unreal.

Must be videos taken by the staff, maybe?

In any case, just ask for a pat down. As far as being sexually abused as a child VT... come on... this is not sexual abuse and equating it to that in anyone's mind is a bit of a stretch. If anyone is that retentive they need a full brain scan.

The thing that evades me about the guy with the little dick is this... did he have a hardon when he went through the scanner? Otherwise, how could anyone judge the size of his dick? My dick is a wee tiny thing when I am being scanned but if Sandy was patting me down it would be a far different story. There's a big difference between a pocket novel and hardcover.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Amos
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:24 PM

Story here

A

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Amos
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:09 PM

In fact the millimeter wave devices which have been said to be unable tosave their scans have recently been the source of over 100 scans delivered to Gizmodo.


A

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 03:21 PM

this really depresses me... I cannot abide the thought of either the scanner or the physical search and I can't drive from the UK to my home country US.

Think I am going to be ill.

And for those who make comments about sexual repression.... perhaps you weren't sexually abused as a child, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 02:56 PM

Why can't they design a machine that shows ONLY hardware and extraneous items? That entirely exclude the soft organic tissues?

Of course, they could.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: gnu
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 02:48 PM

Can't find the article (it was on my Rogers Yahoo email within the last two days) but it said "scientists" say the scans will RARELY cause skin cancer.

I would opt for the pat down. And, BWL, if Sandy was doing it I'd ask for a reeeeal slow one. Hell, I might even have to go back out to get sommat I forgot and go through again.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 01:57 PM

Do you not understand that this isn't a bunch of beer drinking goons having a party looking at your genitals.

That's exactly what a lot of them are.

UK example

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Becca72
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 12:44 PM

I have to agree with Mick on this, too. If you don't like it, drive.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Amos
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 12:18 PM

RIsking lives does not equate to declining backscatter and groping, IMHO.

TSA needs to (1) train its people better, and (2) figure out how to manage this problem without punching so many buttons so invasively.


A

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 12:11 PM

My junk doesn't get enough groping as it is, I might opt for that even though I have no problem with being seen naked under most circumstances, they wouldn't need a scanner...

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 12:04 PM

The terrorist set out to change America ... I think in many ways they succeeded with the Patriot act and some of the other things that has been going on. Out of fear we imprisoned Japanese Americans because of their race doing WWII. Our own people .. it took 50 years to get an apology for it ... I see some of that today .. We don't learn from history I guess

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 11:07 AM

Being FREE from Unreasonable search and seizure is in the US Constitution and it means somthing very important except to the top dollar security industries and a few wusses.


If you guys are so effin scared shitless about an event that is a thousand times more unlikely than getting fatally hit by a bolt of lightning....

I heareby say to you that you are the one psychologiclly repressed
and you don't even know it.'

Forgive me but that is precisely delusional thinking.




Of course if we abandon all hope of freedom, an open society and the basic social contract of citizens who observe and defend the US Constitution,
then there is no reason to even discuss anything authorities want to do to you.



Abandon the Constitution
and everything goes.
Just keep your head down
and follow your nose,
March to the shower
though your fate may be dower
there is more on the hook
than your clothes.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 11:03 AM

No one is more about security than me. Heck my kids were trained black belts and marksmen by the time they were ten. I accept all of the security measures. But when a couple of TSA agents start smirking and making comments and whispering their whatever's when the hot young girl went into the full body scanner as I mentioned in my thread recently .. then I question the quality of the people we have manning these things