God Bless America at Jays Game

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 07:38 PM

Come on guest, relax a bit. Nobody claimed that the U.S. was the SOLE country with the right of free speech so don't start putting words in people's mouths. If someone asks you if the glass is half full or half empty, you would reply the glass is simply dirty.

Of course there are problems here in the U.S., don't be ignorant to the fact that we are all aware of it. Many of us are trying to do something about it too.

Patriotism is overdone? I can't disagree, it isn't necessary to stick a flag on anything that moves. Still have no problem with those that choose to do so. If you think the U.S. is the ONLY country that promotes patriotism, you must be living in a cave.   Look at all the flag waving and displays of patriotism that goes on at soccer matches. Should we put a stop to international sporting events?

Get it through your head that there is nothing wrong with having pride in ones self or ones country. The problem arises when that feeling is the excuse for war. The problem exists when people ignore the suffering that goes on around them.   You can't promote diversity by blocking expressions of patriotisim or you will be doomed to fail. If the left waves a few more flags the message might get across more easily than the flag burners of the 1960's. You can't create change by showing others how different you are from them.

Stop displays of patriotism? What is next?   Do you stop people from celebrating their culture next? Perhaps Sunday church worship is abit over the top and should be banned. Do we really need houses of worship? Perhaps we should burn a few books while we are at it? You don't create change by stopping displays of pride.

Instead of working to create negative change, perhaps you should devote your energies to making a change that creates some good.

Ron

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 01:38 PM

Response to Sinsull:

I object to the teaching of patriotism by rote, sure, whether in the US, China or wherever. I object to patriotism being a featured aspect of any and every kind of public gathering. Why does it have to be reinforced constantly -- is there a fear that without reinforcement people will be less patriotic?

But my biggest objection stems from the use of the word "best." When people are taught, not that they live in a "good" country, but in the "best" country, how do they reconcile that with drive-by shootings, inner city poverty, major drug and violence problems, money spent on war that could help alleviate domestic problems? Faced with that kind of distorted reality, people must become confused at least, neurotic at most.

An example: throughout these posts and posts on other forums I follow, people constantly refer to the fact that they have the right of free speech, as though that was solely found in the US. I firmly believe that statements such as those are facile to the point of being meaningless, and are learned from rhetoric. MANY places in the world have the right of free speech, not only the US!

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 10:34 AM

GUEST,pdc. I know of no other country that has a "Pledge Of Allegiance" however China starts their children on Chairman Mao's teachings by age 5. At home, children witness their families being called out every morning to exercise "for the good of the state". Children in most countries learn their National Anthem without having a clue as to what the words mean - and so they mangle them badly.

I am confused. Is your onjection to the teaching of patriotism (done in all countries) or the Pledge itself?

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: *daylia*
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 09:59 AM

The ways and means of war-time patriotism - Yankee style!

:)    I guess

daylia

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: *daylia*
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 09:56 AM

OK Ron, I give! I'm someone who rarely watches TV (sports or otherwise) and sees "spirituality" (ie. practicing gratitude etc) as something quite alien to organized religion and "prayer". So we are obviously coming from a different perspectives entirely.

You're right - I certainly wouldn't pay to be "entertained" by or participate in something I dislike! (Like being told when to express which feelings en masse, including patriotism).

APC, thanks for the link - a most interesting article.

This article by New York Times war reporter Tom Paine, War Is A Force Which Gives Us Meaning, gives valuable insight into the nature and purpose of war-time patriotism. Paine writes that "When a country prepares for war and goes to war, there are changes in that country's politics and culture ... a myth emerges -- a seductive myth as leaders spin out a cause ... patriotism, a "thinly veiled form of self-worship appears." (emphasis mine).

Paine says that the "myth" is intentionally intoxicating, serving to   mislead, distract and thereby "protect" the population from the horrible realities of the war they are supporting.

I think that anyone interested in helping "God Bless America" would find the article quite useful.

daylia

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 10:08 PM

Response to Sinsull:

You said "The US is not the only country that teaches patriotism to its young. All do. What is wrong with teaching a child to love and respect his homeland, never to take it for granted?"

I must ask you to list any countries that you know of that require children to learn a pledge of allegiance by rote when they are too young to understand what they are saying. Your comparison with religion is right on -- children are presented with such adult concepts as patriotism and religion before they understand them, and by the time they are adults, beliefs have been inculcated to the point of acceptance, thus preventing critical, considered thought.

(Gotta make dinner, but will rant more later!)

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 07:44 PM

Daylia - you missed my point about "grace".   I was trying to say that more wars are fought in the name of a God. Those who do not wish to particpate in prayer do not have to do so, they just sit and respect those that do - not make a big deal out of it.

As for baseball's "policy" about the song - so what? They are a business and they made a decision.   If they decide to hold Bat Day do we deride them for giving weapons to children? The owners made a decision to sing a certain song at a certain time - that is their right as business owners. It isn't a "right" to attend a ballgame, it is a choice. You pay to be entertained.   That doesn't mean you have to like it or participate.

Ron

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:02 PM

HMMMM...Mudcat is an American (US American) site. And this is a music forum... Max! Max! I have a great idea!



For the record, no one has to stand or sing at ballgames. I have a friend who refuses to do either. His statement against the militarism of our anthem. I know many who will not stand hand over heart and recite the Pledge Of Allegiance. Freedom of Speech, you know. Protected by the Constitution and rightly so.

GUEST,pdc. The US is not the only country that teaches patriotism to its young. All do. What is wrong with teaching a child to love and respect his homeland, never to take it for granted? Religions go much further teaching children that martyrdom is a sure way to get into heaven. Please note: this is what I was taught in kindergarten in a Roman Catholic school. It went a steo further - refusal to die rather than give up Catholicism was a one way ticket to hell. Strange ideas to feed impressionable little minds, no?

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 01:05 PM

This happened summer of 1999, Rick. Though I was at the counter-demo I didn't see the flag incident - but that was what was in the paper.

Marion

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 12:46 PM

BRAVO MARION! Hadn't heard that one!

Rick

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Marion
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 11:50 AM

Since someone raised the topic of flag-burning, here's my favourite moment in the history of Canadian-American diplomacy:

Some of Fred Phelps' group came up to Ottawa to protest a favourable ruling for same-sex spouses by the Supreme Court. (And you probably know who Fred Phelps is even if you don't recognize the name - he leads the "church" that pickets "God Hates Fags", "Thank God for AIDS" etc. at various events, including Matthew Shephard's (sp?) funeral.)

Anyway, this group intended to burn a Canadian flag, but as they began, a Mountie realized that they didn't know what they were doing and the way they were trying to do it could be dangerous. So he gave them instructions and helped them get it ignited safely.

The Mountie got some criticism for helping burn the Maple Leaf, but also some praise, and I think it was beautiful. Both as a way of making the homophobes look ridiculous, and as a way of expressing Canadian values: "Burn our flag, big deal. Let's just nobody get hurt."

Marion

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 11:27 AM

I've already posted this in one of the other Iraq threads. But since people are talking here about patriotism, I thought it was worth posting here too.

"Here's an article which articulates many of the reactions to the war which I share, but written by someone who is more familiar with US history, and expressed in terms which might let our sincerely patriotic and thoughtful American friends realise how much of the rest of the world views their country's current behaviour.
Article by Jonathan Freedland."

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: *daylia*
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 09:02 AM

Well maybe some people need to be shown when to laugh or cheer or boo, but it seems very odd to me. Maybe I just don't watch enough TV, so I can still figure it for out myself!

Re the connection between war and singing "God Bless America" - the new MLB policy is to continue until the US ends it's attack on Iraq. So it ain't that hard to figure out why the "powers that be" want it sung, is it? Maybe to rouse up patriotism, support the gov't policy for war etc?

Saying grace does not require any special religious affiliation or training. I thought that all was required gratitude for the food about to be eaten? And yes, most wars are fought over one's religion. In the case of Iraq, it's the "religion" of Western capitalism - "In God We Trust", after all! And "God's" right on the money!!

Maybe this is what they'll be singin in Iraq a year from now ...

""This land is my land, it is not your land,
Ever since you bombed out the road to Baghdad.
You drove our nation to the Great Gas Station.
This land was swiped by you from me!"

(Apologies to Bill D for desecrating the Native American version of Woody's classic he posted a while back)

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 02:48 AM

'Spaw, I do know the little-known history of "This Land is Your Land". It's quite a bit different from "God Bless America", as I'm sure you know...but this is a family site, so I'd better stop there.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 11:28 PM

Spaw - I doubt Pete Rose would be able to remember the words.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 11:27 PM

I also like the history of The Pledge of Allegiance. Written by a socialist in 1892, the pledge was meant to help immigrants. It was also recited with the extended right hand, but that was dropped when the Nazi's use of the gesture gave it a new meaning.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 11:23 PM

Baseball fans need to be TOLD when to cheer and boo? Why? Don't the "powers that be" trust people's natural inclinations/emotions? daylia,

Why not, when it is perceived that we need to be shown when to laugh, for pity's sake, during a TV show.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 10:28 PM

Well Ron, talk about whooping up the crowd, I heard that Pete Rose was on hand to lead the singing!!! (running, ducking, serpentine, serpentine)

BTW, the other night a local school program had a group of patriotic songs they did prior to a school meeting. They sang This Land Is Your Land just before God Bless America and I kinda' enjoyed the irony of the juxtaposition so afterwards I go up the director and ask, "Do you know the history of This Land Is You Land?" Give you one guess what the answer was.

Spaw

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 10:18 PM

Daylia - The powers that be in baseball and in other sports feel it is necessary to program scoreboards and P.A. systems to "pump up" the crowd with music or videos to get them cheering, clapping or booing. In the "old days" you would get someone playing the organ BETWEEN innings or joining in when a rally started. Where is Jane Jarvis when you need her.

I'm not sure if singing "God Bless America" justifies a war. For way too long conservatives have claimed the right to the flag and patriotism. The left has been wrong to not claim the right to be patriots and have pride in their country.   While many will hear God Bless America and feel that it is a call to support the war, that is only because we have let it happen.   I can love my country and still be against this insane war.

Saying grace a harmless activity? It seems that most wars are fought because of ones religion.

Those that connect the American flag with Hitler's swastika are misguided. There is rhetoric on both sides. We are wrong for being in Iraq, but our intent is not to wipe out the Iraqi people.   Shamefully many Iraqis are indeed being killed, but to compare it to Hitler's planned and methodic executions is very, very wrong.

Ron

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: *daylia*
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 08:59 AM

Ron, it's been a very long time since I've watched a game - I was going by what I read in the news and what my son had to say. Thanks for clearing that up about the national anthems.

Baseball fans need to be TOLD when to cheer and boo? Why? Don't the "powers that be" trust people's natural inclinations/emotions? Maybe that's why I don't like armchair sports much - too political.

Of course I agree with what you said about sitting quietly and politely when people say grace if you don't practice the faith. But this is different - saying grace is a harmless activity which does not usually result in, or seek to justify war.   

I doubt many people outside of Germany would have sat quietly and politely while Hitler raised the swastika in the 40's. I glad they didn't! And there are many who see the current situation in the US exactly the same way.

I sure hope they're wrong!

daylia

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 08:23 AM

Daylia - we aren't talking about the National Anthem - and BOTH are played. This is the 7th inning stretch.

ALL major league ballparks also tell the crowds when to cheer and boo. We aren't drones.   If you go to someones house and they say grace before a meal, you sit quietly and politely if you do not practice the faith.   If you disagree with the sentiments of a song, sitting down is probably the greatest protest you can give.

Booing a country and it's citizens lowers the fans to the same level. They are no better.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: *daylia*
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 07:36 AM

The story I heard is that major league baseball has "decreed" that God Bless America must be played during the seventh inning stretch at all games, as long as the US continues to invade Iraq. At the game in question, the crowd was told to stand up, remove their hats - and sing too - even though the game was in Toronto.

No, you can't force people to sing, but this is about as close to it as most people in "free" countries would want to get! Probably closer. At least NHL policy is that both anthems are played, when an American team plays in Canada and vice versa.

I don't think that people who express public discontent with current US actions abroad are necessarily racist or full of hate. Just extremely discontent, and justifiably so imo. Booing anthems and burning flags may not be 'polite', but neither is the bombing of Iraq or the Project for a New American Century.

At least no-one can get arrested for non-violently expressing discontent, however colourfully. Yet. Let's treasure what's left of democratic freedom in this country, close as we are to the apparent US descent into hell.

daylia

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 04:52 AM

BTW sorry about the "God Bless America" crack. I was just trying to be funny.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 04:51 AM

Kim C said.

"Well, Jack, as a matter of fact I do, thank you very much. I was just making a point that there are a lot more important things to worry about than what song gets played at what baseball game. Sorry. "

Kim Canadians are very sensative about US domination of the popular culture. Its very important to a lot of us that the US remembers that Canada IS a seperate country and not a lap dog.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 11:48 PM

I for one an really glad that the Canadians finally are complaining about Yankee arrogance. As a Mets fan I have no respect for the Yankees either.

By the way, how the hell do you "force" someone to sing God Bless America?   Are Canadians really that programmed that they do everything they are told?   Were the Mounties circling the ballpark with weapons?

It isn't like you were "forced" to pledge allegiance to another country. It is a damn song, and not even official. I'm disgusted by the war as well - we shouldn't be there and it is a crime, but booing a song or a country isn't solving anything - it just shows that none of us are above racism and hatred. Canadians are no different.   I just know that the crowd at a Blue Jays game is not indicitive of the people of an entire country.   

Personally I think it is a crime that "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" isn't played. It's un-American not to sing it!

By the way, how did the Expos crowd handle it... oh, yeah I forgot. My mistake - putting "Expos" and "crowd" in the same sentence.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:35 PM

Well said JimmyC

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Jimmy C
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 05:45 PM

James, I understand that and I wonder how many fans even knew about it before going to the game. I imagine many may have been caught unawares but out of common courtesy they stood fot it. I was relieved and delighted that any booing was very small. Last week on the news I watched in disgust as an american flag was being burned by some yahoo in Toronto , it was enough to make me puke. We don't have to agree with everything the Americans do, or the British , or the Irish or Australians or the French or anybody else for that matter but I hope we always have the decency to respect their emblems and their anthems. It is these emblems and anthems that represent the people and we should never intentionally insult them, especially when they are our neighbours.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Susanl
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 12:42 PM

Kim C, you're right. There are bigger fish to fry. But I think it's what it represents that drew so many people into the discussion. It was a gesture that at once gave a voice to all those who support a war and silenced those who don't. To boo God Bless America is to boo Americans. There are much more important things to worry about right now but I think the discussion was started by people who wanted to express themselves beyond a "Yer either fer us or agin us." mentality. A LOT of people around the world are tired of being put in that position, including many Americans.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 12:15 PM

Responding to Ebbie:

I wasn't referring to a national anthem, I was referring to the kind of patriotism that results from what I described in the previous paragraphs of that post.

It's the kind of non-thinking, knee-jerk, conditioned-response patriotism that leads to such stuff as "love it or leave it." It precludes critical thinking, reasoning and objectivity.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 12:05 PM

Guest, you say: "What kind of patriotism leads people to deny any flaws in their country or government? "

That's kind of an odd question. In the very first place, America, the Beautiful addresses that specific issue, exhorting: God mend thine every flaw.

Secondly, can you tell me of ANY national anthem that does criticize itself?

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: *daylia*
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:54 AM

My son watched the game, and told me there was a bit of booing. No doubt - how would Americans react if they were "forced" to sing "O Canada"? Personally, I don't like the political implications of it at all. Sounds like Big Brother "power-over" tactics to me.

But yes, God Bless America is a fine sentiment indeed. Remembering that "God" blesses those who bless themselves, of course.

daylia

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,James
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:51 AM

Jimmy; It was not the usual playing of the SSB that caused offence to some. It MLB insistence that God Bless America be played at the seventh inning. Some people felt that we should not be coerced into that sort of propagand at a sports event that took place in a country which, rightfully or not, has chosen not to support America, Britain or Australia in this War.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: JenEllen
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:45 AM

Guest, you think the world needs to be free from Saddam, and you might be right, but there's no guarantee that this current action is the way to do it. The world would also be better off without political bullying, forced patriotism, and knee-jerk reactions that only serve to hurt people working towards an identical cause of peace.... The added insult is that I don't think any of those things has a lick to do with baseball.

Mark, I may have to carpool to emergency with the other Guest. I think I blew some stitches. *g*

~Jen

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Jimmy C
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:34 AM

The playing of anthems is something that occurs all over the world. My problem with this is the way they are being presented, the singing of an anthem (any anthem) should be dignified and sincere, It should not be portrayed as a pop song, a rap song, a rock and roll song, simply because thay are NOT SONGS, they are ANTHEMS and should be held in reverence, They should not even be cheered at the end. Cheering an national anthem is like cheering the Lord's Prayer, they deserve more respect than that. However the playing of SSB at the Blue Jay game served I believe as an opportunity for many canadians to show their support for our american neighbours, whether we believe in this war or not, they are our friends and neighbours, and as not all canadians are happy with the stand our government took on this issue the baseball game gave many the chance to show the americans that they do have many friends up here. I don't think anyone in their right mind really wanted a war, and many americans voiced their opposition to it, just as many canadians voiced their support for it, too bad the Iraqi people cannot voice their opinion on anything and we should not forget that.
To all the american catters I just wnat you to know that I have travelled extensively throughout the atates and have met only warm, helpful and friendly people (friendly to a fault), I cannot say that I fully support this war but I do think Canada should have acted more like a neighbour and friend. lets hope and pray pray that it will be a short one and that all your sons, daughters husbands, wives and family members and friends are back home safely very soon.

Carole C - you are right - it is only a game,

Peace

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,James
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:19 AM

I watched the game. There was no booing. I think most people would be polite enough not to do that. However, some news sources did report that many people took offence.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 09:01 AM

MAjor League Baseball asked that GBA be sung during the 7ty inning stretch at all home openers, so no, the Toronto fans will not have it played there again. Interestingly enough, in reading the news briefs on the net, most state that the fan reaction was either positve or neutral with little dissent at the game.

Spaw

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 08:32 AM

Surely there is not a plan to repeat this insult . Is there ? Please say it ain't so.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,James
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 06:55 AM

I have been trying for two days to access either MLB or the Jays web site and find that they are both unavailable. Has anyone else e mailed them or had any problems ?

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 01:26 AM

Jenellen, When Iraq is free from Saddam, we can all sing.
"I'll sing you a sweeter song another day" --Theocritus

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 12:26 AM

I'll pursue that one and get back to you. Thanks for setting me straight.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 12:17 AM

Sorry, Steve, it's hard to convey nuances of expression on the keyboard. That Neil Young story is one of those urban legends that just won't die, and I guess I figured that as a music history buff you would have known that. I didn't mean to snow on your parade. Stompin' Tom, now, that's a wolverine of a different color...

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 11:50 PM

Mark,

YOu shot that down pretty quickly. I'm not even going to tell the Stompin' Tom version.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 11:44 PM

Steve--

He was wrong.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 11:32 PM

Mark,

I am a bit of a music history buff. I had never heard this story. Man, the things that you learn here at the 'Cat. I knew it was a Canadian song, a guy at Tim Horton's told me so, but he said it was a Neil Young song, and that he had to leave it with border guards in order to get into the U.S. when he was escaping to L.A. in an old hearse filled with stolen P.A. gear.

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 11:16 PM

I read Mark's post while I was eating a peanut-butter cookie. I'm now on my way to Emergency.

LOL!!

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 11:11 PM

It is not well known, but "God Bless America" is in fact a Canadian song. It was written in 1915 by Hiram Snedley of Kapuskasing, Ontario. Snedley, who was born in Quebec City on January 12, 1874 to an English father and a Cree mother, was a carpenter and amateur scrimshaw artist who enjoyed a brief burst of notoriety when he tried to introduce wattle and daub architecture to the north woods. A fine musician and staunch Canadian patriot, he had written a number of songs that had mostly a limited local distribution, including "Brave Battling Beavers" and "We Love Our Canadian Snow." Snedley was proud of this new song, which he called "God Bless Canada," and decided to put quite a bit of his own money into publishing it; however, it met with very limited success. In 1918, a close friend of Snedley's, newspaper editor and bassoonist Elbert Whift, mentioned to him that the line, "God Bless Canada" didn't quite scan, and that this rhythmic dysfluency might possibly have something to do with the song's lackluster sales record. This news hit poor Snedley quite hard. He became despondent, took to drink, and was last seen paddling his canoe northward on the Kapuskasing River, with a case of whiskey and 700 copies of "God Bless Canada" in the bow. Whift promptly changed the name of the song to "God Bless America" and sent it to Irving Berlin, who, as it happened, had once befriended a distant cousin of Whift's when she was down on her luck in New York. The rest, as they say, is history.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:55 PM

Well, I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but please believe that I am expressing a sincere sentiment.

I've often felt sorry for American children, who are force-fed patriotism in their schools, before they are old enough to understand the concept. Children as young as 6 are taught, and required to recite, the Pledge of Allegiance, which cannot possibly mean anything to them at that age. Thus they are not allowed to develop a sense of love or loyalty to their country -- they learn it by rote.

American patriotism is then reinforced by just such performances as the one as the Jays game -- the SSB is played at virtually all performances of any kind; America the Beautiful is not only played at many events, but is often recorded by performers (Ray Charles' version is awesome); God Bless America, since 9/11 has been heard virtually everywhere.

What kind of patriotism is it when it is taught, then reinforced at every opportunity? What kind of patriotism is it that calls a country "best" instead of "good" or "great"? What kind of patriotism leads people to deny any flaws in their country or government?

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:25 PM

NEITHER MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL INC. NOR THE ACOUSTIC WORKSHOP ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE OUTBURSTS OF ANY "SIDEKICKS".

On the other hand, perhaps we can have a contest to send Peter down to the blue jays dugout, where he can discuss the war with Carlos Tosca!*







*to know why this is a funny concept you have to do a good search on the background of Carlos Tosca.

Rick

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: JenEllen
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 09:27 PM

Maybe snarky, but certainly apt. *g* I do have to explain the blanket generalization of Americans being held responsible for the action. An example of that might be that I've sort of convinced the people I work with that Monday afternoons need to be heightened by a listen to Acoustic Workshop on web radio. I wasn't working yesterday, but the guys listened anyway (it's a tradition now). I came home and ended up fielding a bunch of phone calls from the folks that did listen, and I'm only hearing this second hand, mind you, but the gist was that Rick's sidekick would have gladly taken free tickets to the game to boo at the playing of the song. (Hey, that's another possibility for the nephew-- "We could always give our tickets to Professor Pete so he can go and be self-righteous and puke over the rails"). Not an objection to the causes of the offense, namely MLB, no one booed when they mentioned the game was brought to them by Major League Baseball, did they? But there was a blanket objection to a song. Of all the people who should know the power of song, it should be folkies, right? Maligning a nation's music is maligning the nation itself and all it's inhabitants along with it.
~JE

Subject: RE: God Bless America at Jays Game
From: Susanl
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 06:22 PM

Anthem clause? It was just a short and slightly snarky way of describing it. Not technically accurate but I figured everyone knew what I meant.