BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 10:28 AM

I wonder where it is that people like GUEST,Mr. Butts got the idea that being unpleasant is an effective way of convincing an opponent in an argument?

I suspect that that kind of heavy-handed stuff is a signifcant factor in   encouraging some smokers to stick with the habit.

The health arguments against smoking, in particular smoking tobacco cigarettes, are pretty overwhelming. When it comes to the matter smoking in confined spaces these arguments are reincforced by considerations of courtesy. There's no need or value in undermining them by a bullying approach. And in fact bullying in this area as in many others only encourages people to dig in their heels. Hell, reading some of the comments I almost feel like joining them sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 10:27 AM

I wonder where it is that people like GUEST,Mr. Butts got the idea that being unpleasant is an effective way of convincing an opponenet in an argument?

I suspect that that kind of heavy-handed stuff is a signifcant factor in   encouraging some smokers to stick with the habit.

The health arguments against smoking, in particular smoking tobacco cigarettes, are pretty overwhelming, and for smoking in confined spaces they are reincforced by considerations of courtesy. There's no need or value in undermining them by a bullying approach. And in fact bullying in this area as in many others only encourages people to dig in their heels. Hell, reading some of the comments I almost feel like joining them sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 10:18 AM

L.H. -

I ride a bike, mostly. I live in Downtown Orlando, so most things - work, church, shopping, pubs, friends are close by. I ride the bus occasionally - maybe a few times a month and I get rides from friends sometimes - if I have to transport something big or going to gigs a fair distance away.

I'm certainly not against cars or trucks, but many people drive gas hogs (SUVs are really popular her, as they are everywhere, yet we have no snow or mountains) and drive them when they really don't have to. For instance, my church has 50 members that live within a 3 mile radius of the church. I'm the only one who bikes. The only other regular bikers live about 6 miles away.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: GUEST,*daylia*
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 10:12 AM

Hey Mr Butts, if you do know me personally, how about revealing your true identity here? If not, how about admitting you don't have a clue what you're talking about and taking your pc non-opinions and insults somewhere else?

I've told you the truth. If you don't like it or don't believe it, that's your choice.


daylia


PS   Oh, I almost forgot - you, Mr Butts, and all others like you are hereby warmly invited to ....

Bite me!

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 10:05 AM

Christine Lavin has a great new song, "The New Street People," about outdoor smokers. It's on her website here.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Grateful Ted
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 10:05 AM

I am 45, but only look 15 thanks to a healthy diet of kippers smoked in Old Holborn, washed down with greek whisky.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: GUEST,*daylia*
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 10:02 AM

Re looking older because of smoking -- I do see that effect in some of my friends. But I smoke on average about 6-12 cigarettes/day. If I smoked more, my skin probably WOULD dry out more noticeably.

Not saying I might not look better if I quit. It would make it easier to keep some nice insulating fat on, probably. And I've noticed my skin has lost some elasticity over the last few years. Yet, that's true for most people I know in their 40's, smokers or not.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: GUEST,Mr. Butts
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 09:55 AM

Obviously Daylia, like most addicts, you suufer from a severe case of denial and, if you actually do believe what you're saying about your youthful good-looks, narcissistic fantasy.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: GUEST,*daylia*
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 09:41 AM

As a matter of fact, Mr Butts, people usually guess my age at 5-10 years younger than I really am. No kidding. If I bothered to color out my gray hairs any more, they'd probably still think I was 10-15 younger.

At the risk of sounding conceited, I'll confide that the reason I stopped coloring out my gray hairs a couple years ago was so that the younger men (say under 25) would finally leave me alone. Having raised 3 sons of my own, I find them about stimulating as untrained semi-weaned puppies. Leaving my gray hairs "as is" works quite well to quell their interest, most of the time. It's been quite the relief.

How do you know how my hair and skin smells? Gotta cyber-nose or something?   The smell of smoke wears off in about 5 minutes if you smoke in the open air. Wash your hands with a nice-smelling soap and pop a breath mint in your mouth, and presto! No more smell.

In all honesty, I've had private music students I've taught for years who never knew I smoked, and were just plain shocked to find out (they happen by me in the park or on the nature trails sometimes).

If I smell so vile, how could they not have known?

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: GUEST,Mr. Butts
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 09:07 AM

I've got news for you Daylia, even though you only smoke outside, your clothes, hair and skin still stink like an ashtray. Thing is, after 35 years of smoking, you can't tell. You also look 10-15 years older than you really are.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 08:30 AM

Non for the last 12 years except when I lived in Brussells for three months where it seemed to be compulsory:-) Gave up easy 12 years ago and did not smoke again when I got back to the UK about 6 or 7 tears back.

Doesn't worry me too much now but I do have to leave our club early occasionaly because of the smoke which does agrravate my medical conditions (Asthma and Perrenial Allergic Rhinitus). If all smokers were like Dalia I would have no problems at all but they are not!

It is a little annoying when I hear people say 'If you don't like it don't come here' etc. There is nowhere at all within walking distance of me that caters for non smokers. Considering that there are in the region of 30 pubs and clubs in that area it does seem a little unfair:-( Not to worry. I know I will have the last laugh when smoking is banned in all public areas as it will be.

The car argument is also pretty erroneous. I drive - I have to to do my job! No car - No work - No money! What am I supposed to do? Cycle all over the UK with heavy computer parts and a huge toolkit strapped to the handlebars?

Just my 2 pen'urth.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: GUEST,*daylia*
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 08:00 AM

But I bet very few people would actually chose to start smoke as adults if they hadn't already been addicted as a child.

I bet you're right about that, Bagpuss! I never tried alcohol till I was almost 18, and when I did it made me puke. I found the taste, the smell and the effects of alcohol totally revolting. Consequently I've never liked alcohol, and I still don't drink.

I don't like it when people inflict their smoke on me in enclosed spaces. So I make it a point to "do unto others ..." It's a lot better for me, and for them.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Bagpuss
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 07:52 AM

Smoking may make you feel good, but apparently its the come down from the last cigarette that made you feel bad in the first place.

Not that I have anything against you doing it since you seem to try to avoid inflicting others with your smoke. I'm sure theres not one of us that doesnt have a habit that is unhealthy for us in one way or another. But I bet very few people would actually chose to start smoke as adults if they hadn't already been addicted as a child.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: GUEST,*daylia*
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 07:46 AM

Why did I start smoking? Because I wanted to. My father, brother and sister and my best friends smoked, and it proved to myself and my mother (with whom I never got along) that no matter how she screamed and slapped and over-controlled, she couldn't dictate how I'd spend every moment of my life.

I'd take my dad's Colts or Export A no-filters (*choke* *gasp*) into the forest and practice inhaling alone, so I could smoke with my friends and not throw up. I caught on quick. I was 10 years old.

By the time I was 12 I was buying my own whenever I had the money. Back then cigarettes were 65 cents a pack . There were no age limits on buying them. They were advertised on radio TV and billboards, just like booze and chocolate bars. Most people I knew smoked, and nothing was said about health risks.

Why do I continue to smoke? Because after 35 years I still enjoy it. It's quite a habit. It's part of who I am. It stimulates when I'm tired, so my thinking is quicker and more alert. It mellows me when I'm stressed. It's a comforting distraction when I feel depressed. Nicotine is both a mental and emotional stimulant.

Best of all, smoking keeps most people whose company I don't care for FAR AWAY from me! The natives used Tobacco not only for prayer and as 'legal tender' (trading commodity), but as a "smudge" - a cleansing incense to remove negativity from a person or a place before ceremony - usually combined with sage, sweetgrass, and cedar.

I've chosen not to smoke indoors for a few years now, so there's no more disgusting smell in all my clothes or yellow streaks running down the walls of my house. I've never had asthma or allergies or any other illness (except pneumonia when I was 7, from running barefoot races in the snow). I rarely even get colds or flus, and when I do it's usually because I've spent too much time in close quarters with some sickly non-smoker when I'm already over-tired.

I enjoy exercise and make sure I have at least an hour of it outdoors in the fresh air, several times a week -- be it fast-walking, bike riding or practicing martial arts. For many years I was a runner, but had to give that up because of impact damage to my knees, hips and lower back.

I raised 3 kids. They are all healthy, and none of them smoke.

The only reason I'd quit today is financial. That's a biggie, and someday when I'm ready, I'll put 'em down and get a lot richer. It would really help if people would lay off the preaching and propoganda. I see right through all of it! Just thinking I might become anything like most of the wheezing, sickly, asthmatic, allergy-ridden, overweight, stressed out holier-than-thou non-smokers I know is quite the "con" to quitting, in my own mind.

So there's my 2 cents worth. I'm going out for a smoke now.

Lock and Load!

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 06:09 AM

On the question of getting started smoking, both my parents smoked and at the beginning of the sixties smoking still had that glamorous image. All the film stars seemed to smoke and so did my boyfriend at the time. So, in order to feel more grown up I started smoking.

Unfortunately I became addicted and smoking became a way of life. I did try to give up a couple of times but went back to the habit after a while. It wasn't until my husband was told to stop smoking that I was able to stop altogether - it didn't seem fair for him to have to deal with my still smoking. As a result I know that I am healthier, and a lot better off financially.

I do get rather tired of having to put all my clothes in for washing after a night in a paticularly smoky venue but take it as the price to be paid for a good night out. However, I am now with someone who cannot tolerate smoke, having had cancer of the throat as a result of his own smoking habit, and this does colour my view on the subject.

It is frustrating when a good evening is spoilt because you have to leave a session because one of you can't tolerate the smoke, However, my partner's wellbeing is more important to me.

I would love to see non-smoking pubs in the UK. The venue for the session that we are trying to start in Hertford is the dining room of a pub and so non-smoking, but smokers can always go through to the bar to light up. That seems to be a sensible solution.

On the question of cars - I'll go along with LH here. At least the automobile has a practical use. I would be hard put to manage without mine due to the high cost and unreliability of the public transport system in this country, and I do have to use the trains to get to work in London so know first hand what I am talking about. As far as I am aware smoking has no practical value whatsoever and one hell of a downside both healthwise and financially.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 07:51 PM

Great screen name, Polly Squeezebox!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 07:36 PM

Thanks Kat!

If LH starts 1 more Shatner thread, I may have to start again. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 07:23 PM

I'm glad to see you're taking personal responsibility for your transgressions, Blackcatter. :-) That should make upset smokers feel a lot better. So, how do you get around without that car? Just wondering, not saying it's impossible or anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 07:13 PM

Metchosin

You are so right and I'm so wrong. I'm going outside now and kill myself by pouring gas on me and lighting me afire. That will piss some people off and make them happy at the same time.


As other said - I usually do 8-10 bonfires a year. If you're worried about pollution look into a tailpipe of the billion or so cars in the world. I don't drive one myself.

Now, without a car - where do I go for gas . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 07:07 PM

I wonder who doesn't drive a car around here? Anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 07:01 PM

In the open air I quite like the smell of pipes and cigars, and even some cigarettes (eg Gauloise). And smoke rings can be pretty. Really it's kind of smokers to put their lives at risk to entertain me.

"how come he is able to not smoke at home but as soon as he gets to a festival he lights up? Presumably its not a matter of him being unable to do without smoking, since by not smoking the rest of the time he demonstrates he is, it's because he chooses to indulge on special occasions.

For some people smoking occasionally doesn't work, because they are addicted - but evidently in this case he isn't, so it's surely not a big deal. The health risk involved in occasional cigarettes (provided they really are occasional) is not great, from all I've read.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:45 PM

Cigarette smoke really makes me puke. The self-righteous hypocrisy of some of the anti-smokers round here(particularly the ones who drive cars) really really really really makes me puke.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Polly Squeezebox
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:38 PM

Non-smoker. Gave up the easy way - unconscious in hospital for three weeks - NOT RECOMMENDED but at least you get over the nicotine craving.

Now hate seeing husband sticking another nail in his coffin at folk festivals - how come he is able to not smoke at home but as soon as he gets to a festival he lights up?

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:36 PM

Yes to pretty much all of the things you've listed in your 24 Aug 04 - 05:51 PM post for me and other people like me, Daylia. Even the water that come out of the tap here where I live. I don't much like it, but there it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: GUEST,GOD
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:34 PM

Except you, Chongo.

For you (and your Cigars) have now become My Infinitely Infantile Insatiable Indulgence.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:06 PM

Definitely not. Look, life is bad for ya. It kills everyone in the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: *daylia*
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:03 PM

Is it bad for you to smell a Chimp (with or without Cigar)?

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 05:56 PM

You tell 'em, daylia! I can't stand these self-important wimps who complain about my cigar smoke. It didn't use to be that way back in the 40's. A man (or chimp) could go anywhere and smoke any time he wanted to. Dames got to use fancy cigarette holders that really had class. The world has gone to hell since then with all these damned rules about everything. Tommy guns ain't legal no more either. I don't know what the hell has gone wrong, but I think it's the lawyers that have done it. I hate 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: *daylia*
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 05:51 PM

Is it bad for you when you smell smog?

The exhaust from your car? Your snowmobile? Your boat motor? Your lawnmower?

Is it bad for you when you smell factory fumes?

Traffic fumes?

Fresh Asphalt?

How about fresh gasoline, furnace oil, natural gas?

Is it bad for you when you smell your local sewage disposal plant?

Your local pulp mill?

The stale lifeless recycled air in public buildings and other enclosed spaces?

Your neighbour's pipe tobacco?

Your neighbour's barbeque?

Your neighbour's new painting project?

Your neighbour's cigarette?

Your neighbour's backyard campfires?

Is it bad for you when you smell your neighbour's cheap body mist? (you know, the one who makes your eyes water and burn and induces fits of sneezing)

How about when you smell the blood of another holier-than-thou self-appointed messiah?

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 05:30 PM

If you smell manure, on the other hand, it just smells bad. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 05:27 PM

If you smell tobacco smoke, it's hurting you. Get away from it!

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 04:27 PM

Woodsmoke is one thing, but a smoking barbecue is absolutely vile, and I believe it's been proved to be very toxic indeed.

I'm always puzzled why people have barbecues in their back gardens rather than using the stove in the kitchen and carrying the food outside to eat.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Sooz
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 02:10 PM

Never met anyone who lit up 40 bonfires a day...............

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Metchosin
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 01:37 PM

my point, Little Hawk was that Blackcatter claimed that the inalation of the fumes from a relatively smokeless fire were delightful to breathe. Just because the product burned is "natural" or smells good does not ensure safety. Whether it is tobacco, woodsmoke or incense, the combustion of organic matter produces poisons.

You are correct, life is a gamble with no guarantees and none exist in this world at no expense to others. I will always throw my hat in the ring with those that embrace the gamble and take their lumps, smokers or non. To attempt to control behavior of others by viewing their choices or addictions with derision or pity is futile and does not guarantee anyone, myself included, safe passage.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 12:15 PM

Money, Bill. Big money. Oh, and addiction, of course. And habit. And people's god-given right to each be stupid in their own unique fashion. :-)

Metchosin - What exactly is the point you are trying to make? I haven't seen too many people deliberately and enthusiastically inhaling wood smoke from fires. :-) On the contrary, you try and set the fire up so you get the heat and light, but not the smoke. Fires are not perfect! Neither is anything else in life. Everything is a tradeoff. Even sex.

Why not give us some statistics on the physical downside of engaging in other common and popular activities...like driving a car, mowing the lawn, making love, vacuuming, sitting at a computer, flying in an airplane, eating oatmeal with brown sugar on it, and so on...

Oh! Horrifying damage all around. Why, most of these things are AS BAD OR WORSE THAN SMOKING CIGARETTES!!! I figure, we either ban ALL these harmful activities or just admit that smoking cigarettes is every bit as sensible and worthy a practice as anything else a person might choose to do. That oughta shut up all these arrogant, overbearing, pompous people who are acting so self-righteous toward the poor, put-upon smoker!!! Yeah. Go get 'em, Metchosin!

(This thread is a hoot, isn't it?)

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Grateful Ted
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 12:12 PM

Wouldn't Whitby kippers be fantastic if they were smoked in Old Holborn rather than wood chippigs?

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 11:54 AM

My parents smoked...I lived in a house full of smoke for 18 years and ALWAYS hated it. I spent hours cleaning the layers of smoke residue from items from my parents estate (silver lamp was yellow)..I am old enough to remember when cigarettes were everywhere. I used to have to sweep them up in grocery stores where I worked, and I found them in bottles being returned for deposit, and people standing in line would blow smoke in my face.

Now almost nowhere I go permits ANY smoke, and dining is pleasant, and plane flights are not torture. This is one of the few bits of real advancement in society, and we are all better for it.

Can you imagine if there were no history of tobacco, and someone suddenly discovered this plant, and decided to dry its leaves and roll them up and set fire to them and inhale the smoke...and then MARKET this product? Can you see the report from the Food & Drug Administration? "NO! You cannot sell this stuff! It is full of stuff that is poison."

Tobacco would NEVER be allowed if it were invented today...so why do we keep permitting it? Taxes, perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 11:26 AM

Smoke holes - when houses had fireplaces and chimneys, it was quite common to smoke so the smoke went up the chimney. Particularly if you weren't supposed to be smoking whatever it was you were smoking.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: maggiethecat
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 11:20 AM

Daylia, I didn't really think that inhaling smoke from such a distance was going to harm me. I'm not an idiot, but thanks for the injection of humour...that didn't hurt me either.

-maggie

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: *daylia*
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 11:06 AM

I agree the habit IS odeous and nasty ... when indulged in an enclosed space.

That's why the Natives designed all their dwellings and Council areas with smoke-holes at the top.

If these words suggest to you that "natives were walking around rolling their own all day and puffing in the house", well, you're welcome to your perceptions.

It's just so obvious that smoke-holes vent not only the ceremonial smoking / burning of sacred herbs like Tobacco, but cooking fires as well, that I didn't bother to mention it.

As far as I know, Tobacco was traditionally used by the natives for prayer and ceremonial purposes only ... not for recreation.

Sorry about the confusion.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 10:46 AM

The U.S. EPA estimates the cancer risk from wood smoke is twelve times greater than that from equal amounts of tobacco smoke. Materials on the low end of the energy scale such as wood and charcoal create the most pollution. Other low end recreational solid fuel sources are incense, candles, wax logs, charcole grills.

Many years ago a study was published stating that eating barbecued meat, grilled over coals or wood, is to your body like smoking a pack or more of cigarettes. Far more pleasant way to get those carcingens, IMHO, but we don't grill often.

Well GUEST, the smoke holes obviously vented both - the cooking fires and the burning/smoking of ceremonial Tobacco, sagebrush, sweetgrass, cedar and other sacred herbs which were (and still are) regularly used.

But you seemed to suggest that those natives were walking around rolling their own all day and puffing in the house. This has been shown not to be the case.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: s6k
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 10:01 AM

100 !!! i thank you!!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: s6k
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 10:00 AM

99

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: *daylia*
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 08:22 AM

Holes in native structures weren't constructed to vent tobacco smoke, they were to vent cooking fires. Chain smoking wasn't a use that Indian tobacco was put to pre-Columbus. That was learned from colonizers who took something sacred and turned it profane.

Well GUEST, the smoke holes obviously vented both - the cooking fires and the burning/smoking of ceremonial Tobacco, sagebrush, sweetgrass, cedar and other sacred herbs which were (and still are) regularly used.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Grateful Ted
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 08:11 AM

97

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: *daylia*
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 08:01 AM

I was sitting on the most beautiful and pristine beach on an island in the Caribbean, dreaming and minding my own business, when I began to smell something. Sure enough, it was cigarette smoke from a person upwind of me...and from quite a long way away.

At the time I didn't think that much about it, but since then, it's happened almost everywhere I've gone...and in the most gorgeous places ..... and I certainly hope that the smoke wafting into my lungs wasn't enough to harm me)

ROTFLMHO!!!   Thanks, maggie.

Suggestion 1: phone 911 and rush yourself to emergency for a thorough examination right now, QUICK!!! -- before it's too late.

Suggestion 2: next time it happens, place your thumb alongside one nostril and the tip of your index finger alongside the other. Pinch firmly till the breeze wafts by.

Suggestion 3: Hypochondria (the habit of cultivating paranoid thoughts and delusions about one's health) can become quite a debilitating mental illness.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:54 AM

So next time you feel like lighting up a camp fire, just think about it. Just say NO. I know it will be hard, but what is the alternative? Try looking at pictures of camp fires in various stages of combustion. Wean yourself off slowly. One day you too will be able to walk right past the bbq supplies without a twinge.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: s&r
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 04:41 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: Metchosin
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 02:19 AM

Right....there is little harm in woodfire smoke, especially bonfires and campfires enjoyed by the self righteous. LOL

All burning creates harmful by-products of combustion, resulting in air pollution. Just because one is able to create a fire with lower levels of large particulate matter visible to the eye, dosn't mean that one is not creating harmful pollution for recreational enjoyment.

The U.S. EPA estimates the cancer risk from wood smoke is twelve times greater than that from equal amounts of tobacco smoke. Materials on the low end of the energy scale such as wood and charcoal create the most pollution. Other low end recreational solid fuel sources are incense, candles, wax logs, charcole grills.

The basic components of wood smoke pollutants are:

Particulates:
Tiny particles suspended in the air that are too small to be filtered out, and thus become embedded deep within the lungs. The most injurious are particles classified as PM10, 10 microns in diameter or less. Wood smoke PM10 contains creosote, soot, and ash. Most smoke particles average less than one micron (one millionth of a meter), allowing them to remain airborne for 3 weeks. The particles are efficient vehicles for transporting toxic gases, bacteria and viruses deep into the lungs where they pass into the blood stream. Inhalation of PM10 causes coughing, irritation and permanent scarring and damage to the lungs resulting in decreased lung function and increases in respiratory illness. It contributes to cancer, heart disease and changes in DNA leading to autoimmune disease. It causes sudden, premature death. These effects become significant at averages less than 40 micrograms per cubic meter. Smoke from just one fireplace burning has been found to cause particulate levels to exceed 200 ug/m3 in the outdoor air surrounding the neighboring property. These particles are so small that they filter into your home even with all the doors and windows closed.

Carcinogens:
Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons (PAH): Residential wood burning is the source of 50% of airborne
Polynuclear Organic Material (POM) in the U.S. POMs contain a group of compounds (PAHs) which include many Class A
carcinogens, the most carcinogenic materials known to exist.

Dioxin:
Dioxin is a very potent carcinogen and endocrine disrupter. Scientists say it is exceeded in toxicity only by radioactive waste. Dioxin is one of the deadly dozen air pollutants. It is a repeat offender and keeps getting recycled in the environment for years. It lasts in the human body for seven years.

Carbon Monoxide:
An odorless gas resulting from all burning but produced in large amounts when burning takes place with
reduced oxygen, such as in wood stoves. Even small amounts in the air reduce the body's ability to transport oxygen, constrict
muscles and blood vessels, stress the heart, and result in feeling cold, fatigued and nauseated. High CO levels are found indoors
where wood is burned.

Respiratory Irritants and Toxins:
There are over 100 different chemicals and compound groups in emissions from burning wood. In addition to those noted above there are chemicals known to be toxic such as:
formaldehyde
propionaldehyde
acetaldehyde
isobutyraldehyde
phenol
cresols
Also nitrogen dioxide which is released impairs the respiratory system and reduces its ability to fight infection. This combines with the organic compounds to form ozone which makes breathing difficult.

So don't tell me that bonfires, incense, scented candles and other popular forms of recreational combustion don't have the potential to cause harm to yourself and others either; whether torching a dube or grilling a tofuburger, one is not immune.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoker/Non-Smoker?
From: GUEST,Blackcatter
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 04:10 PM

As for campfire/bonfire smoke - First - if you have someone who knows what they're doing, there's little smoke. Second, if you pick the right woods, the smoke can be quite pleasant to breathe in fairly small quantities (assuming you can handle smoke at all). I collect and dry about 8 different types of wood for the bonfires at my church. The list includes oak, willow, cypress, camphor, mesquite, and orange. I burn most of them at different times of the year. My fires are pretty well known to be nearly smoke free, yet fragrant.

We occasionally burn tobacco in the fire too - though in small quantities and only as a reverential nod to the Indians who called Florida home before we came, or as a powerful herb associated with the season of Samhain, the Celtic feast of the Dead.