BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 06:53 PM

I know this woman who married for the second time later in life, and she didn't find out until her wedding night that he was impotent. The subject just "never came up" as it were, she just EXPECTED him to be normal. That's what I mean by expectations. Communication is the only answer, yet, we assume, and when the excrement contacts the oscillator, we blame the other person.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST,Hopeful
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 02:22 PM

After my experience...posted earlier..I had a complete break to let myself heal. Couple of years made a huge difference and then out of the blue, I met someone, we were part of a larger group of mates hanging about at college......took time to get to know them as a friend and we've been a couple since December......early days and we are taking it easy and having lots of fun and lots of cuddles

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: Lyrical Lady
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 02:04 PM

It 's been my experience that those who expect "nothing"...are seldon disappointed. Don't we all have the expectation that we will be treated well, respected, loved in return?? When a relationship is no longer taking care of the needs and desires of the people involved than isn't it true that we can expect for it to end. The last man in my life said that he expected nothing from our relationship... it ended and now there is nothing! He just went away without a word of explanation...nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 01:46 PM

Right on Freda. It takes time to know someone. Any good psycopath can look like an angel on earth, but they can't keep up the facade.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 07:56 AM

trust is a dangerous thing, and thats what this first post was about. how can you trust someone you don't know?

and how you you speak the same language, when you have different cultural filters.

friendship is a precious thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 07:32 AM

The most dangerous word in the English language is EXPECTATIONS. Constant communications is the key.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 06:29 AM

It's not a case of 'are you ashamed of yourself. If the other person isn't ready to go that extra step surely that should be respected, if the feeling from both is genuine. If the respect isn't there then what chance any relationship?

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST,closencounters
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 09:30 PM

you feel close to a person, and you want to get close. its a happy occasion. you go through a process of laughing, talking building up trust, negotiating and finally loving, and then the person, who has led the chase all the way, steps back and says aren't you ashamed of yourself.

this is a power game, or a form of class warfare.

or is it just sexual incompatability?

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: matai
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 05:41 AM

yeah me too. corridus, i'm having difficulty finding a male matai, i think they're all extinct.

matai (rare new zealand tree, somewhat akin to the american redwood)

oh no dont tell me i have to go to the states

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST,Corridus
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 12:30 PM

I am seriously out of touch with dating. There are no female hamsters in my vicinity. There is only an old and very foolish cat, and a younger human monster female named Zoe who is really quite nice for a monster. I am dateless and bereft. Where can I find a hamstress? It's a real problem.

Otherwise, though, things are good. Zoe's place is turning out to be a great home, complete with a non-carniverous cat. Pretty neat.

Corridus

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: el ted
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 12:03 PM

Get rutting! As the immortal bard said - " Death walks behind you"

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: Allan C.
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 09:09 AM

It's all sex and it's all wonderful!

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: kendall
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 08:59 AM

Believe it or not, it's the cuddling and closeness that I miss most.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST,worried
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 08:58 AM

el ted, are your comments aimed at me? Perhaps it was a little rash. nevertheless, it was a warm happy experience. Its difficult when you have little love in your life.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: el ted
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 05:24 AM

Yes you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 05:17 AM

Worried - There is absolutely nothing wrong with cuddling all night, in fact it is a wonderful thing if that's all both of you want. If it leads to more that's good too but just the feeling of closeness and security with anohter person is so worth it.

Givers and takers - we all have to learn to both give and to take. It's great being a giver but even givers ahve to recognise the pleasure felt by the giver and to learn to take from that person with graciousness. I think it's actually easier for givers to do this as there is less selfishness and more consideration of another person's feelings in general.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST,worried
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 04:50 AM

I have been friends with a man for about six months. We went out at the weekend alone and he came back to my house and we slept together in the same bed. We both kept our pants on and we hugged and cuddled and no more. Is this bad? Neither of us have a relationship with anyone else. It was nice to be hugged all night.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: Deckman
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 05:02 PM

Guest, anon ... Well said! Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST,Guest, Anon
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 04:56 PM

open mike - you're right, my existence is their success. What I meant was the fact that given hind-sight is 20-20, they should never have gotten married. however, it's a difficult thing, because of course I wouldn't be here if they didn't and I'm rather fond of my life. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: open mike
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 02:01 PM

guest-anon...your parents did not fail...your existance is their success

the taker / giver definition reminds me of a book i read...
Ishmael....the author describes people as takers or givers..
very insightful, prize-winning book...with several sequals..
ishmael community...new tribal ventures

i like the maker/taker/faker analogy, too!

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST,Anon
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 12:35 PM

a very honest and touching thread, as well as informative.

but i feel compelled to speak up for young people. we're not all sex crazy and foolish. I waited until I was 21 before I had sex for the first time, and it was my lover's first time as well. We didn't rush, it was almost a year from when we first met before it happened.

Some of us are sensible....just the quiet minority. ;-)

Thank you for this thread, my own parents divorced when I was a teenager and I never really gave much thought to what they were going through in terms of new relationships because I was too wrapped up in my own world of hurt. But I always swore that I wouldn't make the same mistakes they did of falling into a relationship that was doomed to fail. I hope I don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 10:46 AM

I enjoy giving. It may be the most important thing I can do with my life. If sex turns out to be a part of that, so be it. It is a gift, after all - a treasure, a pleasure. I can give love as well, but they are not always a part of the same moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: Amos
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 09:08 AM

make choices between being a Giver or a Taker, moment by moment by moment.

A wonderful and useful thought, GB&B. Thanks.

Old man used to say there were three kinds: makers, takers, and fakers.

Have always found that valuable asa preliminary sort, as well!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST,Bothered and Bewildered
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 09:04 AM

I totally agree, Jacqui. It is an awful feeling when you realize that someone has been with you (whether for a night, weeks, months, years) not for YOU, but for something they could get from you. This could be sex, status, any number of things. And the 'being with you' need not have been a relationship, it could be a friendship, a business partnership.

I'm not so sure it is such a straight division in attitude between men and women, though. There are some wonderfully giving men, and some horribly grasping women about, and vice versa. Rather than make a division between male and female attitudes, here, I wonder if it is more that some people (male and female) are more overridingly "givers" and some people are more overridingly "takers" in this life. This can be a generally inherent characteristic, or learned (and unlearned) by experience, and it 'colours' a person. I also think that each of us, every second of every day in all its minor occurrences, make choices between being a Giver or a Taker, moment by moment by moment. I find it quite a sobering exercise to look at events, at the end of a day, and see what choices I made in it between giving and taking.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 06:47 AM

I think that this is where the hardwiring can be different between the sexes. T ogive physically I need to give emotionally and if that isn't returned, or can't be sustained, then I get hurt so I've made the decision not to go down that road again. My last marriage left me with a severe lack of self esteem that I have only in the past year or so managed to overcome and I ain't going to go anywhere that might compromise that now!

Yes, there are times when I would really love to have a physical relationship but the urge, to date, has not overidden the emotional need and I hope it never will.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: kendall
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 02:43 PM

Sorry, that was me. I forgot I dumped my cookies.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 12:42 PM

Men and women really are "wired differently"

What is MOST important is as Ellen mentioned,
SINGING OFF THE SAME SHEET. When two people go into it with different agendas, that's when the trouble starts. I once lost a very nice lover because I could not tell her that I was in love with her. Lying does not suit me.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: Amergin
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 12:34 PM

"Many of you here are 'on my planet', "

If that's the case...you're in sadder shape than originally thought...you should check into the NYCFTTS.

Sincerely,

The Grand Ooglabug og Planet Glurg

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 10:24 AM

I'm glad that this thread is still going!

Oh, B&B, here's a story for you! When my love Walt was dying, a group of this friends got together and had a wonderful Hoot for him (organized by Deckman Bob, bless his name forever and ever). I was really looking forward to meeting all of Walt's friends from the folk community since he and I had been connected in another state with a different bunch of friends and cohorts.

When we arrived (his sister on one side of him, and me on the other), I almost IMMEDIATLY started picking up some very strange vibes. They were definitely "checking me out" kinda vibes, and I hadn't a clue why anyone in their right mind would consider it appropriate to be scoping out a woman on the arms of another man, ESPECIALLY a DYING MAN ferchrissake!!

It was explained to me afterwards in some great detail, that this was actually one of Walt's M.O.s, and that he had been famous for making time with any and every woman he could possibly "pull" (to use an interesting English expression). And that all these guys were doing was following a long established tradition of casing out the talent..and in two cases...calling me later to ask me out!!!

So, again, what is my point here? BE CAREFUL! The world is full of NUTS! Seriously, though, after Walt passed on, it was several years before I went out again, and even then, I realized I should have waited longer. I went back to some old bad habits and jumped into something that was not only a waste of my time, but if truth be known, of my dignity. Never again will I go down that road.

Yes, Kendall, friendly sex is fine, if you can honestly find a lady who is coming at it in the same mood and with the same lack of any other intentions, lucky you...but it's just not all that easy for a lot of us, even for us that have professed in the past that it is.

This is all so personal, but erring on the side of safety in the emotional sense is worth it, from my view...xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: freda underhill
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 10:12 AM

i won't.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: Allan C.
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:43 AM

Agreed, Kendall. There is quite a difference between "a port in a storm" and a "snug harbor".

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: kendall
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:30 AM

I guess I'm a typical man in that I would rather have sex with someone I love, but if that's not possible, I'll settle for someone I like, and RESPECT.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: freda underhill
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:25 AM

cast all the nasturtiums you want, B&B

we can handle em!

and you know, there is at least one very sociopathic, predatory woman in mudcat - that nurse ratched. if anyone finds her, she should be bound up and sent to Guantanamo Bay to catch mice.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST,Bothered and Bewildered
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 08:58 AM

I totally agree, Freda, Kendall and Jacqui. Maybe there are more of us on this particular planet than first appeared.

I've just re-read my post, and so as to clarify things, when I said "Listen, ladies", I wasn't addressing Mudcat ladies and implying any of you go around preying on other people's husbands/boyfriends - I was addressing the predatory women out there in the world who are doing that. Thought I'd better clarify that - I don't want to cast aspersions or cause offence !

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 08:22 AM

I think that, as intercourse is the closest you will ever get to another human being, there should be a corresponding emotional bond. The times that I have ignored that in the past I've ended up feeling used and dirty the next day so I'm staying with it.

I've been on my own for five years now - if a good relationship comes along that will be great but if not, I have a lot of good friends and a fulfilling life and dom't NEED someone to 'look after' me. I have friends who think they have that need and have compromised significantly for a relationship and are now unhappy.

I think we all need time to get to know ourselves and not be afraid of being alone. If we are comfortable with ourselves everything else will flow, be it a relationship or the single life.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: kendall
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 07:50 AM

Good advice. 5 years may sound like a long time, but it can take that long to heal. I know from personal experience. The first person to come along right after a serious breakup will be the next dumpee.
Never mess with a married person! he/she has already proven that he/she is untrustworthy. As was stated before, if he/she cheats on his/her spouse he/she will cheat on you.
Trust your head, your hormones will betray you.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: freda underhill
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 07:01 AM

hi bothered & b

maybe i should have logged out like everone else, but i havent.

i have made a couple of very good friends in the chat room, and had some great conversations (and some rather manic laughter sessions). sometimes when there are a lot of people in ther it can be overwhelming, like a rush in the supermarket.

some men/women have a hunting instinct and are looking for prey. they are after meat. they enjoy the fight of hunting something that belongs to someone else, and the bloodletting. for me, feminism means loyalty to other women. and that means putting them first, not intruding on someone elses relationship.

the 5 years thing is good. I felt like a piece of cardboard when i emerged from a decade and a half of my last relationship. i have had to gradually get used to myself as a single entity again.

last year the one very kind and gentlemanly man that i was interested in let me know carefully that he was not interested (craack). that was my first try for four years.


best wishes
freda

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST,Bothered and Bewildered
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 05:09 AM

'Hopeful' - I have just read your post. I am so sorry to hear your experience. I do hope life is much, much better for you now.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST,Bothered and Bewildered
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 05:05 AM

Thanks Bob and Planet Guest, oh and Amos too, for what you have just said. (Must mention Amos, so he doesn't feel left out. Don't worry, Amos, I built my own furniture from 'handy flat packs' using the miniature screwdrivers I got inside a Christmas cracker. It may look like the Leaning Tower of Pisa and creek and wobble alarmingly when you sit on it, but it brings the risk and adventure of a Disney theme park into my own living room. I'm thinking of charging admission.)

You are right, Bob. Becoming single again after a long marriage is an eye-opener as to what is happening out there ! In the early days, post-divorce, you feel very vulnerable and confused - probably more so than you would want to admit to yourself at the time - and that is the time when people can easily make a lot of mistakes they may live to regret. I agree with you about the 'Fatal Attraction' fears, too. My recent persistant pursuer appears to have got the message now and has hopefully gone off to find someone else to pester. Fine as far as I am concerned, not such good news for them, unless they find his urgent attentions welcome.

I agree with you, too, Bob, that if you have children who are of 'dating' age and are still under your legal care, I think it's important that if you are warning them of the physical and emotional risks of casual sex, they don't see you doing that yourself, either.

I'm going to say a couple of things now that I'm sure some people here will disagree with, but I will be very interested to hear their point of view. This has been such a good discussion here. When I was first divorced, several years ago now, someone advised me not to even THINK of entering into a new relationship for at least five years. At the time, the thought of five years or more sounded ridiculous. I have now gone through that space of time (and no, I'm not ticking the days off the calendar to leap out there and "find" someone !) On the contrary, I can see how wise that advice was. It takes a long time to settle into the new person and the new life, to even know who you are.

Another thing that people may disagree with here: I would never, ever, start 'dating' (for want of a better word) someone until their divorce was totally final. Nor someone who had not yet ended their previous relationship. (If they treat her like that - what makes you think they won't treat you like that somewhere in the future ?) It seems there are a lot of predatory females about ! I have never understood the mentality of women who make a play for a man who is in a relationship (either married or not) and "work on" him, taking him away from his wife or girlfriend (or even be his "bit on the side"). Listen, ladies: If he can be coaxed away like that by YOU, what makes you think he won't be coaxed away from you some time by someone else ???

If all this means that I end up like the old woman in the song, in the garret with the parrot (and surrounded by my crazy flat-pack furniture) so be it. I am glad that Mudcat has an archive feature and the threads last forever. Many of you here are 'on my planet', and maybe I will be able to resurrect this thread in years to come, like some ancient long-lost manuscript, to report that I have met a fellow creature from my planet. Who knows ? But, for the meantime, I look forward to this discussion continuing, as it clearly affects a lot of us here.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST,Hopeful
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 04:03 AM

Like Heartbroken, I've been there and done that......and for a while I thought my heart WAS broken. I consider now that I was "groomed" while I was extremely vulnerable after a long term relationship break up, which this person knew about as they had taken care to befriend me through an internet chatroom. Having dome some research I found that this person has a history of finding and using the vulnerable and have informed official channels. I consider myself lucky, I ended up having a complete breakdown. Being older and wiser I would never go down that road again. Make your friends in real time and in the real world.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST,from B&B's planet
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 11:41 PM

B&B, You're not as alone as you think. Relationship is about so much more than sex. The one who cares about you in the way that you are looking to care about him, will allow you all the room you need for readiness. Don't settle for less.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: Amos
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 07:05 PM

Trust Bob to bust up a perfectly good stereotype!! Jeeze!! Now they're gonna want us to build furniture or sompn....

A

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: Deckman
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 06:36 PM

To: Guest, Bothered and Bewildered. I've just now had time to read all these postings. You've started a very good thread that obviously resonated with many people and caught many interesting postings.

As I read through the thread, I realised that it could have been ME that started this thread, although I would have had to do so about ten years ago. I'll explain: I was married to my first wife for 26 years. She was, and still, a nice person. We raised three great children. But I chose to end that marriage for ceratin reasons.No, there were NOT ant boyfriends or girlfriends.

I spent the next ten years single. What an experience! Shortly after the 'word got out,' I was inundated by women. I had just gone through a successful divorce, I was working two jobs, and the LAST thing I wanted was a "relationship."

I was absolutly AMAZED at the attention I got. This was NOT the dating behavior I knew. In fact, it was the behavior I cautioned my children about.

I found, time and time again, that I would have to get pretty rough in telling some women to cool it. And I did. This was during the time that the movie "Fatal Attraction" came out. I don't go to movies, so I've never seen it, but I had friends cautioning me about this story line. And indeed, I was on the receiving end of attention from some people that would not take "NO" easily.

And today I am VERY glad that I did as I did. Or perhaps I should say that I did NOT do as some would have wished. "Bride Judy" and I have been married almost nine years now. I/we are very pleased about.

My whole point in this rather rambling story is tell you that I think you are very RIGHT in doing excatly what you are comfortable with, and NO MORE.

You've received some very good advice here, reading the many postings.I also want to disspell the stereotype that men are only/always after sex. That ain't necessarily true. CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: kendall
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 03:47 AM

What's wrong with a bit of harmless flirting?

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: freda underhill
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 05:18 PM

hi open mike!

re boho

this is an aussie term - we put "o" on the end of everything eg

muso - musician

boho - bohemian

ammo - ammunition

Johnno - what we call anyone whose surname is johnson


freda


ps cautious - no he won't

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: open mike
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 05:11 PM

define this: " being pretty boho "
certainly not the same as hobo?
has it something to do with "bohemian"
as in beatnik?
if so why not "bohe"?

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 04:58 PM

Dear Cautious:

Do not take William Shatner's name in vain. He is--rightfully so--an icon.

Flirting in a chat room is serious. Get a grip.

Your friend, Zelda

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST,me
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 04:35 PM

I reserve the right to hop into the sack right away if I want.
I reserve the right not to.
I don't care if I appear out of touch.
I am not necessarily waiting for "the one".
If he came along I wouldn't recognise him because I had slept with him sooner or later.
Do as YOU want.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: Allan C.
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 10:16 AM

Dear Cautious,

It happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
From: GUEST,cautious
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 08:04 AM

Dear sympathy column

out in the other world, i am cautious about personal involvements. very cautious.

i have met someone here that i have been flirting with heavily in the chat room - he has a v funny sense of humour which hooked me right in. how did this happen and what have i gotten myself into?

will he still respect me in the morning?

signed

outwardly restrained
virtually uncontrollable

ps put this on the what don't i like about mudcat thread, but they're all obsessed about someone called william shatner there. so thought i'd try again here