BS: Don Imus replacment

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 08:49 AM

Ron,

When you learn to read, it would be nice if you read what I posted, instead of putting your words in my post.




"You have to admit, he's set a high standard for the rest of us.

Now would you like to defend his body of work--as some others who defended his right to spew his poison?"

If you do not understand the difference between defending a person's right to speak and defending what a person says, you have a real problem. I suggest you go back to school and try to learn something.




"By the way, to return to Mr. Imus, it was pressure from people on advertisers, more than anything else, which caused his firing. If pressure from advertisers causes my firing from Mudcat, I can live with it. But somehow, I don't think it's that likely.

Also, as I recall, you did not object when there was a campaign to boycott Citgo, because of alleged ties to Chavez. That is directly comparable to the Imus situation--and it's part of capitalism. Supply and demand. We will not buy your product unless you stop sponsoring racist fools. Just as "we will not buy Citgo gas because of ties to Chavez".

Simple as that.

Exactly what part of capitalism do you find objectionable? "

AS I HAVE STATED, the company he works for has every right to fire him, and people have the right to boycott them and their advertisers if they wish. *** I *** was commenting on the calls that "there should be a law" (mg) or that he should have been regulated ( kendall).

What part of GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE IN FREE SPEECH do YOU find so desirable?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 08:27 AM

I've heard people say, "With all this PC shit going on, I don't dare open my mouth anymore afraid some innocent remark I make will upset some broad."

I find it hard to believe that anyone with more than a teaspoon full of brains is unable to decide what will offend and what won't. Remember the "Golden Rule"?

Your right to say anything that crosses your mind stops where my ear starts.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 12:28 AM

Ron O--

It's a bit of a jump from firing Imus to book-burning. I think we can tell the difference. Hope you can. And don't worry, we are on the lookout for book-burning advocates. As, I dare say, are you.

"The problem is made deeper". Actually, no.   This is the start of addressing the problem--which you yourself have pointed out--"stereotypes and hatred". Your pontificating is a little confused.   Whether the Imus affair will push the corporate world to go beyond this to address the (c)rap cited earlier, who knows? It obviously depends on the music-buying public. One possible good indication--"hip-hop" is sinking in popularity, according to sales--at least I've read this. ( Perhaps you have better information). Whether consumers are just getting it free over the net is a question.

But this is not a good incident to try to cite Holmes, etc. Free speech is not in danger because a smarmy DJ was fired. Not least since, as has been noted, there are plenty of places for a smarmy--but popular--DJ to find work.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 12:12 AM

Robo--"that single incident". It was part of a pattern, as has been already pointed out.

Anybody who doesn't like the way pressure was brought on advertisers--in fact that's a far better way than government interference--as most posters here should see.

Big article--front page--in the WSJ today on the Imus affair. It was not just pressure on advertisers, though that was certainly most of it. It was also some people of integrity in the corporate world. Bill D has cited one instance.

"He (Imus) has flourished in a culture that permits a certain level of objectionable expression that hurts and demeans a wide range of people" said CBS CEO Leslie Moonves.

Precisely.

Also, this time Imus picked the wrong victims. These girls were precisely the opposite of Imus' smarmy racist remark--neither "nappy" nor "ho's". In fact they were playing the game exactly the way the US supposedly wants--going to college and obviously rejecting the sick stereotypes some others seem to endorse.

This is exactly what Bill Cosby's message was. And if blacks who do this get this sort of response from "the media"--personified in Imus, that's just criminal.

Just for that, he should have been fired--on the spot.

Why didn't it happen? That's already been noted--money talks--and Imus got good ratings.   So it took awhile to build. Actually, less time than it might have--in fact years ago it might well not have led to Imus' firing.

The WSJ's headlines convey it well: "Behind the Fall of Imus, a Digital Brush Fire: In a Blur, Watchdogs, Blogs, E-Mail Spur Radio Host's Firing".

"This time it was different. The target was a sympathetic team of young athletes. In the ensuing furor, the lucrative and often vulgar business of talk radio found itself running into new limits, as the Internet sent Mr. Imus to millions of PC screens, driving executives, advertisers and employees to distance themselves from his racist words."

Since the advent of the Net, in a big way, these things will go faster than ever. And anybody who thinks that just the Left is exploiting the Net has conveniently forgotten about the Swift Boat affair, in which the Net also played a substantial role.



BB--I deduce from your comment "What will you do when somebody decides your comments are over the line?"--that I perhaps have said something that annoyed you. As the Pope would say, I'm so sorry you were offended by anything I said.

Would you mind specifying which comments were "over the line"? And perhaps you'd like to compare mine (and yours) with, say, the collected works of the late lamented "Martin Gibson", who has been "fired", in a manner of speaking, from Mudcat.

You have to admit, he's set a high standard for the rest of us.

Now would you like to defend his body of work--as some others who defended his right to spew his poison?

By the way, to return to Mr. Imus, it was pressure from people on advertisers, more than anything else, which caused his firing. If pressure from advertisers causes my firing from Mudcat, I can live with it. But somehow, I don't think it's that likely.

Also, as I recall, you did not object when there was a campaign to boycott Citgo, because of alleged ties to Chavez. That is directly comparable to the Imus situation--and it's part of capitalism. Supply and demand. We will not buy your product unless you stop sponsoring racist fools. Just as "we will not buy Citgo gas because of ties to Chavez".

Simple as that.

Exactly what part of capitalism do you find objectionable?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 11:22 PM

Well, I wouldn't know how to find the threads now - but there've been two or three within the past year or so in which the advisability or inadvisability of toning down sea-songs in public performance has been discussed. The very idea that you might want to avoid singing certain things in front of children or adults likely to be offended was treated with derision and indignation, generally. Much talk of "political correctness" run rampant, etc. I guess you'll have to take my word for it - or not - unless someone else can provide a thread refence.

If I have time later, I'll nose around and see what I can find ...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 11:12 PM

Sorry for the fumble figer goof above.
How about Martin Langston. We have not heard from him for a while and it could be provocative if not fun,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 10:53 PM

?? What might that mean? I know 'some' singers of sea songs will sing the 'original' version on occasion, but that's a pretty broad generalization. Do you have specific reference in the threads?
**ANYONE** takes their chances on not getting invited back if they make the wrong choice...even folk singers.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:44 PM

"Comedians ever since have used 'bad words' in night club routines, but they mostly can't do it on prime-time TV...or at a grade school show."

Folkie singers-of-sea-songs, though, seem to feel that that policy doesn't apply to them - or so I gather from some threads I've followed on this forum ...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:08 PM

This "incident" has more to do with Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson trying to reassert their political leadership after the emergence of Barak Obama than anything else. By forcing one of America's iconic broadcasters from the air, they are showing that they are still forces to contend with--

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 08:45 PM

Bill's right. Imus broke no law. He broke a rule. He probably didn't even break an explicit rule, but he certainly broke an implicit rule or two. And one of the rules he broke is one that governs the relationships between employers and employees everywhere:

If you say or do something that drives away customers, you are subject to termination.

It has nothing to do with freedom of speech. The First Amendment applies to government, and only to government. It does not apply to the workplace.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:38 PM

I am bewildered by all the dispute over "freedom of speech" here. There are no laws stating Imus can't say what he said....just as there are no laws stating that 'rap' or 'hip-hop' performers can't say it.

   Imus didn't violate any law, he violated good taste and judgement. He used a degrading & insulting term in a VERY careless and inappropriate way. He exercised his freedom of speech, and the sponsors and employers exercised THEIR right to say they weren't going to put up with him saying stuff like that on THEIR turf anymore! - Virginia Sen. George Allen exercised HIS freedom of speech, calling someone "macaca"....and HE learned the limits.

Howard Stern was pushing the limits on his radio/TV show, and was close to getting canceled for it....so he moved to satellite radio.

I can stand on the corner with a sign saying "Down with Bushites" if I wish....it isn't even obscene. But if I am in BB's home and say it, he can tell me to leave....just because HE finds it ...ummm...'offensive'.
You simply have to learn what the limits are. Lenny Bruce tested the limits to make a point about what KIND of 'offense' was actually legal, and in what circumstances. Comedians ever since have used 'bad words' in night club routines, but they mostly can't do it on prime-time TV...or at a grade school show.

    Imus simply let bad taste in awkward attempts at 'humor' go too far once too often. He allowed his stupid language to 'directly' insult the wrong target...and it cost him a feww million dollars.

'Nuff said.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:38 PM

The social and political history of this country is riddled with the casualties of 'mis' speak. My favorite is the remark that is credited with turning the election of 1884:

Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion

I don't think that Don Imus is proven a bigot by that single incident. I do think he has been hoist by his own petard, but my was it unpredictable!

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:29 PM

Jesse Jackson long since apologized for his 1984 Hymietown remark.

The blurted epithet or phrase that reveals a racist mindset is far different, imo. We seem to ALL be racist, much as we may deplore it. The gut and the brain are sometimes at great odds.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:22 PM

BB, come on get real. I'm not denying you the right to decide for yourself what is offensive. I'm simply saying that "nappy haired Ho" is way more offensive than "Bushite". As far as I know, "Bushite" is a kickname for anyone who believes in GW Bush.No more, no less.

Mike, don't try to tell me what I heard and saw. I saw him say it, and I heard him say it.

There is no use threshing old wheat. I've said all I need to, and that is that.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 06:48 PM

According to a news report tonight, CBS and MSNBC received a series of phone calls from Sharpton and Jackson demanding that Imus be fired and threatening a black boycott. So, I guess, we will now turn to these two paradigms of racial equality to determine who says what where on the airwaves. Imus was not in violation of FCC regulations and Sharpton has made it clear that this is just the beginning.
I am contemplating a boycott of all products advertised on CBS and MSNBC to let them know that I expect them to monitor ALL their programs for racist remarks or sexual innuendo. Imus was screwed. I neither approve of nor agree with his comments BUT they were mild compared to some of the other crap that is allowed to continue. Hymietown and Tawana Brawley - someone else owes an apology.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:58 PM

"It's hard to express indignation for someone who is saying the same thing they are saying."

I don't find it hard. Neither do a lot of other people ...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Slag
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:45 PM

You ought to see my hair (what there is of it ) when I wake up from my nappy! You'd "Ho, Ho, Ho!" too! So, the stringy headed boor disses with "Knappy headed hoe" (Echoing what you can hear in any number of "Rap Songs" and I use the term "song" loosely. It's all disgusting. I feel for those girls, though. They are hard workers on the team and excellent college students and deserve respect and honor.

In this land of the free everyone has the right to the expression of their opinion right, wrong or otherwise. However they don't have the right to public forum. That is either a privilege or a commercial opportunity and Imus should be (and has been) deprived of those.

Maybe some of the rappers will take note and tone down their own disrespect for their fellow human beings and especially members of their own race! It's hard to express indignation for someone who is saying the same thing they are saying.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:41 PM

He "said nothing of the kind", Mike Miller? Imus said "nappy-headed hos". Which part don't you understand?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:36 PM

I demand we expunge the name Nappy Lamare from all discussions of Dixieland Jazz!

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Mike Miller
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:31 PM

Kendall, Imus met with the basketball team, not the rugby team. More importantly, you said that he called them "nappy haired street whores". He did no such thing. Rather, he used a rap term that is not within his normal vocabulary in an attempt to sound black and hep. His attempts were clumsy, not unlike white blues singers from New England affecting a mumbling drawl.
There is no doubt, in my mind, that, had Imus, really, wanted to call the players harlots, he would have used a word like whores, hookers, pros or girls of the evening. This is a tempest in a teapot and does not merit all this pious wringing of hands.
Imus' firing is not a repeat of the Monday Night Football "Rush" to judgement. ABC was justified in releasing Rush because they didn't want controversy on their show (I guess when they hired him, they had, never, heard him speak). MSNBC can make no such claim. Imus has been saying dumbass stuff for years. That's why he had such a large audience. People like to listen to dumb stuff. His audience knows when he is joking. They like his crudeness. Those of us who don't go in for that kind of entertainment should continue to not listen to him. That is our right and, I believe, our moral duty. But, it is, neither, duty. responsibility nor right to limit what kind of entertainment others may enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:18 PM

Did anyone else notice that none of these young women even have nappy hair?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:14 PM

Donuel 4:25: Don's wife said "This is just wrong, Please send the hate mail to her husband instead."


That quote confused me (All right, I am easily confused) so I checked on it. The quote is: She told listeners "if you must send e-mail, send it to my husband," not the team.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 04:37 PM

man , sadly the govenor is totally shattered.
Its worse than I heard.


thread drift--->

Just like the green zone bombing was said to have killed 2 and now it is 8. Iraqi parlament leaders were quoted as saying the surge and security measures are an utter failure.

The great Bahgdad bridge has also been severed and destroyed effectively seperating the Sunni and Shia neighborhoods on the city.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 04:29 PM

Spokesman: Corzine not belted in during crash
POSTED: 3:03 p.m. EDT, April 13, 2007

Story Highlights• NEW: Acting governor asks for prayer for Corzine, family
• Spokesman: Governor apparently not wearing seat belt
• Corzine in critical but stable condition, doctor says
• Governor was on way to host meeting between Don Imus, Rutgers team


CAMDEN, New Jersey (AP) -- Gov. Jon S. Corzine was apparently not wearing his seat belt as required by law when his official SUV crashed into a guardrail, leaving the governor hospitalized in critical condition, a spokesman said Friday.

A state trooper was driving Corzine to a meeting between Don Imus and the Rutgers women's basketball team Thursday night when another vehicle, swerving to avoid a pickup truck, hit the governor's SUV and sent it into the guard rail on the Garden State Parkway.

The crash broke the governor's leg, six ribs, his sternum and a vertebra. Authorities were searching for the pickup truck driver blamed for causing it. (Watch EMS workers evacuate injured amid wreckage from the crash )

Corzine, 60, did not suffer any brain damage in the crash. But he won't be able to resume his duties as governor for several days, if not weeks, and he won't walk normally for months, Dr. Robert Ostrum said after performing surgery on the governor Thursday night at Cooper University Hospital.

Friday morning, the hospital's trauma chief, Dr. Steven E. Ross, said Corzine was stable and improving, and that he could be removed from a ventilator within the next few days. Corzine remained heavily sedated because the pain from chest injuries made it difficult to breathe, Ross said.

Senate President Richard Codey became acting governor about 7 p.m. Thursday after Corzine's office notified him that the governor had been injured.

'He's in serious shape'
"He's in serious shape, but he's alive and going to survive. Hopefully, he'll be back to work in a few weeks," Codey said Friday on WNBC-TV.

At a Friday afternoon news conference, Codey requested that every house of worship in New Jersey offer prayers for Corzine and his family this weekend.

Corzine was riding in the front passenger's seat of the SUV when a white pickup truck swerved to avoid a red pickup truck that had moved onto the highway from the shoulder, State Police Superintendent Rick Fuentes said. The white pickup hit the passenger side of the SUV, sending it skidding into a guardrail. The red pickup left the scene.

"I'm sure every red pickup truck is being looked at by neighbors and everybody else, so I'm sure they'll find it," Codey said Friday afternoon.

Fuentes said it was unclear whether the governor was wearing his seat belt at the time of the crash, but Corzine spokesman Anthony Coley said Friday that it appeared he was not.

Seat belts are mandatory for everyone in front seats in New Jersey; the fine for violating the law is $46.

Troopers in a vehicle following Corzine's administered first aid and called for help. Corzine, Trooper Robert Rasinski and a gubernatorial aide were flown by helicopter to the hospital. Rasinski had minor injuries and the aide was fine.

When Corzine arrived at the hospital, doctors said he was conscious but had several injuries: a femur broken in two places that had lacerated his skin, a broken sternum, six broken ribs on each side, a head laceration and a minor fracture on a lower vertebra.

Ostrum said a rod was inserted in Corzine's left leg, and additional operations were scheduled for Saturday and Monday. The injuries were not considered life-threatening, but it would be at least three to six months before Corzine could walk normally, he said.

"He's got a pretty significant rehab in front of him," Ostrum said.

The crash occurred around 6 p.m. while Corzine was en route from Atlantic City to the governor's mansion in Princeton to moderate a meeting between the Rutgers women's basketball team and radio personality Don Imus.

Imus was fired from his CBS radio program Thursday amid furor about racially charged comments he made about the team on air. The closed-door meeting went on without Corzine, and lasted for about three hours.

Corzine, a Democrat who gave up his seat in the U.S. Senate to become governor, went into politics after being ousted from Goldman Sachs, where he had been CEO, in a power dispute in 1999. He was elected to the Senate the following year. (Read about Corzine's background and career)

The acting governor, Codey, also served as acting governor for about 14 months before Corzine took office last year following former Gov. James McGreevey's resignation over an extramarital affair with a man.

Corzine was the third straight New Jersey governor to break a leg while in office. McGreevey broke his left leg in 2002 during a nighttime walk on the beach, and Christie Whitman broke her right leg while skiing in the Swiss Alps in 1999.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 04:25 PM

WHO has been hurt..

The Gov.of New Jersey, as I understand it, was headed for the Don Imus - Rutgers team meeting when he was involved in a hit and run accident that has left him with a broken leg and multiple rib fractures.

The women are now getting hate mail over the Imus flap. Don's wife said "This is just wrong, Please send the hate mail to her husband instead."

PS
Indeed GWB's racism is worse than an Imus racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 04:23 PM

"And, I DO get to decide what's offensive to me."

But you deny me that same right?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 04:22 PM

If you don't see the difference, it's because you don't want to. And, I DO get to decide what's offensive to me.

I understand Imus met with the Rugby team AND apologized AFTER he was fired. That lifts him a few notches in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 03:43 PM

"How about a poll? Majority rules, eh?

Who thinks "Bushite" is offensive?
Who thinks "Bushite" is as offensive as "Nappy haired street Ho".? "


As I said, YOU don't get to decide-

*** I *** find it offensive. Are you saying that the words some find offensive should be subject to vote? I guess the use of n----r in the South was OK, back when a majority thought so? Or Hymie is OK, as long as there are more people who hate Jews than care about it?

It does not matter which is MORE offensive- IF you ban one, you are subject to having others banned.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 03:43 PM

I am not offended by "BuShite" but it isn't directed at me. I do think it is intended as an insult, please correct me if I'm wrong. It is not even close to the same level as "Nappy headed ho."

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 03:35 PM

How about a poll? Majority rules, eh?

Who thinks "Bushite" is offensive?
Who thinks "Bushite" is as offensive as "Nappy haired street Ho".?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:58 PM

Greg B., I almost said something to that effect earlier but wasn't sure how to say it. I have never liked it when an interest group vocally pressures companies to pull ads. It removes the moral imperative from the argument and turns it into simply a question of dollars and cents.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Greg B
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:49 PM

There was a very good point made on NPR this morning--- probably
very few of those who so vehemently protested Imus' remark were
regular Imus listeners.

In other words, the MARKET forces didn't shut him down, but rather
the roundabout pressure on the advertisers to pull their advertising
or lose the business of those who, absent his offensive remark,
had no interest in Imus in the first place.

The only thing that could be described as a legitimate MARKET
force taking Imus out would be if those who would otherwise have
continued listening tuned him out.

So it's a bit like my getting out in the agora and saying something
that someone finds offensive, and them telling my boss that they
won't buy my company's products unless he fires me. (The analogy
falls apart a bit, because I'm not paid by the company to speak
in the agora; on the other hand it's strengthened by the fact
that Imus is a journalist, or a pseudo-journalist.)

While I believe that censorship by the government is horrible,
I also believe that 'censorship of ideas with which we disagree
by indirect boycott' is also very dangerous.

Don't watch or listen to Imus if that's the way you feel.

Speak out in opposition to his ideas.

But when you start maniuplating the market to 'cut off his
air supply' I think that you have embarked upon the same
slippery slope that was the McCarthy-era 'blacklist.'

Remember, the 'blacklist' wasn't an official government
program. It wasn't like movie companies and entertainment
venues HAD to refuse to hire anybody on the 'list.' It is
rather that various indirect economic pressures would be put
upon them if they didn't comply.

This kind of stuff is almost worse than an actual governmental
intervention: at least you can take that to a court of law and
get it reversed. Who's to be the arbiter of a mob that demands
that you be silenced and deprived of your livelihood.

However, I believe Imus will be back within a month or two. Maybe
not on CBS or on MSNBC, but instead as the head of his own
production company, and syndicated ala Gerry Springer or Howard
Stern. Maybe he'll be on on cable, or on satellite radio. So
long as he has an audience (and I contend that 95% of his
audience didn't care about the remark, because they 'get' that
that's how he is or because the agreed with it, and that a
further 10% of people who didn't listen to him now will) he'll
make a tidy living being Imus.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:46 PM

Speaking of Bill Cosby, a few years back I heard a re-broadcast of a commencement address he gave to college students. I call it the "Are You Dead" speech. The man is a serious thinker and a much better leader for young Black folks the Revs Sharpton or Jackson.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:41 PM

MS-NBC talk show host Tucker Carlson (where Donohue once had a TV show) has just been named by CBS to host a game show next season. The show is called "Who Do You Trust?" The answer to that is not Tucker's dad's friends at the neocon contrivance which has largely replaced the Project for the New American Century (PNAC). That would be the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, co-chaired by Tucker's father, former Voice of America and Corporation for Public Broadcasting chief Richard Carlson. FDD has Gingrich, James Woolsey, Joe Lieberman, and Louis Freeh as its "Distinguished Advisers." It is ironic that a day after CBS canned Don Imus it picks up the annoying neocon "Jimmy Olson look-alike" Tucker Carlson to host a game show. Yes, America, the media is controlled by a tightly-knit cabal of corporate gnomes.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:39 PM

"If CBS is going to be consistent, they should end the (C)rap format on every radio station they own or operate."

No less than Bill Cosby has said the same thing. He caught a lot of grief for it, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:36 PM

"If CBS is going to be consistent, they should end the (C)rap format on every radio station they own or operate."

I don't think anyone on this forum would be too upset about that ...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:32 PM

who cares who said it first.

Context matters
yet hate still spatters.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:27 PM

If CBS is going to be consistent, they should end the (C)rap format on every radio station they own or operate. The "tatooed nappy hos" comment was drawn from the (C)rap community in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:27 PM

memo to other miscreants who find themselves embroiled in an Imus moment...

Do not go on Al Sharpton's show

If you are friends with someone like Harold Ford ask them for help.

Take a leave of absence before anyone can suspend of fire you.

Do not defend yourself on air.

Eventually say how the crude langauge of people like Nixon and GWB corrupted your world view.

Do an attonement tour like Bill and lay low for 6 months to a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:11 PM

Ron, I didn't mean to imply that this being a business decision made it wrong. I just think it means the firing lacks a genuine moral imperative. In my opinion this episode is not going to lead to a new model for public discourse, it is a blip that will soon pass. I hope I am wrong, I would really like to see people treat each other with respect, in public and in private.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 01:53 PM

This is "issue" is as much about Al Sharpton as it is about Imus--

Imus dismissal, lacking any actual policy, principle, or legal underpinning, is, most likely rooted more in of fear of what Sharpton can do when he taps into "black anger"--Based on what he has done. it isn't an unreasonable fear--He didn't exactly pour oil on the water during the Crown Heights Riots, when he led marches, shouting,"No Justice--No Peace!!!!"--

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Amos
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 01:36 PM

All the rhetoric surely contributed; but the bottom line on what caused Imus' firing, was sponsorship. His evaporated by a series of withdrawals by large corporations, such as AmEx, who felt they would be wasting their advertising money backing Imus.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 01:31 PM

"Okay, here's a question - not a rhetorical question, but a philosophical one: can we differentiate between expression of offensive IDEAS (clearly defended by the constitution, and by the quotations in BB's earlier post) and use of offensive LANGUAGE (possibly not protected)? "

I do not see how you can differentiate- *** I *** find the term "BuShite" to be both inaccurate and offensive- but who decides if that is the word or the idea?

If someone decides that a word is offensive, how can we then discuss the topic? Is it OK for one group to use words that offend another group, while the other group is not permitted to use words because those words offend the first group? Who gets to make the "bad word" list?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 01:30 PM

"Pointing at the offenses of other "sewer mouths" does not excuse what Imus did. "

No, but pointing out the precidents that have been set and the "standards" that have previously appeared to be acceptable does give an understanding as to what led to his words. It is not acceptable, and he deserved to be called on the carpert.

What this points out is a change, for the good, in our behavior and tolerance.   Hopefully it will not signal and end to freedom of speech and government intervention in such matters.

The worst kind of censorship is self-censorship when we become afraid to speak our minds.

Of course the decision was motivated by dollars, not morals. It was a business decision, and it does not make it wrong to be considered as such.   These companies are beholding to stock holders and they would be in violation of their trust to allow a program that is not making money to continue.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 01:09 PM

Pointing at the offenses of other "sewer mouths" does not excuse what Imus did.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 12:24 PM

"Actually, I count 6- 2 on the 10th, 2 on the 11th, 1 on the 12th, and 1 on the 13th ... "

Okay, six.

"Another 10 or so besides mine that say how bad an idea it is."

And I imagine, without checking back, that at least some of those were posts that were ALSO saying that Imus SHOULD be fired or suffer some kind of consequences.

"But even one call for government control of speech should be commented on."

I agree. And you and several others did. But I felt that you got to blurring the call for action against Imus, on the part of many posters, with the call for government regulation, on the part of two or three posters (in six posts). That's why I made my observation above.

Okay, here's a question - not a rhetorical question, but a philosophical one: can we differentiate between expression of offensive IDEAS (clearly defended by the constitution, and by the quotations in BB's earlier post) and use of offensive LANGUAGE (possibly not protected)?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 12:15 PM

Keep in mind that the force behind the dumping of Imus is the charming and talented Al Sharpton. If his indignation at the public use of racially offensive language does not ring hollow to you, consider this(excerpt):

Democrats Embrace "Impressario of Hatred"
BY FRED SIEGEL
The Wall Street Journal, Feb. 29, 2000

"..But at Freddy's [a Jewish-owned store in Harlem], Mr. Sharpton was even more malevolent. He turned a landlord-tenant dispute between the Jewish owner of Freddy's and a black subtenant into a theater of hatred. Picketers from Mr. Sharpton's National Action Network, sometimes joined by "the Rev." himself, marched daily outside the store, screaming about "bloodsucking Jews" and "Jew bastards" and threatening to burn the building down.

After weeks of increasingly violent rhetoric, one of the protesters, Roland Smith, took Mr. Sharpton's words about ousting the "white interloper" to heart. He ran into the store shouting, "It's on!" He shot and wounded three whites and a Pakistani, whom he apparently mistook for a Jew. Then he set the fire, which killed five Hispanics, one Guyanese and one African-American–a security guard whom protesters had taunted as a "cracker lover." Smith then fatally shot himself.

Eight people died, and so evidently did the conscience of liberal Democrats. It was Al Sharpton who had the honor of asking the first question at last week's debate, held within hailing distance of the Freddy's massacre. "

For those with the time and stomach for it, I recommend googling Mr. Sharpton's activities in Crown Heights--

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 12:02 PM

I wish Imus had been fired because people stopped listening to his show or due to his employers sense of moral outrage at his behavior. He was fired because CBS and MSNBC thought their bottom lines would be enhanced by doing so.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 11:58 AM

Re read my posts. At no time did I advocate government censorship. Calling Bush a nincompoop, an incompetent moron on this forum is in no way the same as a national figure on national TV referring to a group of exceptional, classy young ladies as "nappy haired street whores."

With freedom comes responsibility. That's the thing that these foul mouth adolescent shock jocks don't get.

I also have Jewish friends, and I don't appreciate Spike Lee or "Rev" Sharpton or Jesse Jackson making remarks such as calling NY "Hymie town".
To call a Jew a Jew is one thing (not offensive) but to call a Jew "Hymie" is an insult that should offend everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 11:41 AM

They're apples and oranges when you're trying to decide who you think is the biggest jerk, which I believe was what Kendall was talking about. I think Imus is, if only because he hurt more people - not just offended their sensibilities. Then the rest of us had to wonder what those young women must have felt like, with a big media icon who never met them and whome they never hurt calling them names.