BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 10:37 AM

The reason why the BNP's current statements are "a lot gentler than the old ones":

The BNP teaches the KKK how to "sell" their ideas

Tha's right - in his first few sentences, Nick Griffin says to the White Supremacists/KKK, "The British National Party isn't about selling out its ideas, which are your ideas too, but we are determined now to sell them..."

"Which are your ideas too." Think about that.

The party hasn't changed - it's repackaged the old ideas to make them more palatable to people like you, greensue. Please don't be apologists for them, or anyone who stands for office as their representative. Naivete is no excuse - the evidence is there for anyone who cares to look for it.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 10:22 AM

a nieve girl

What in the name of Jesus Mary & Joseph is this? If you are attempting to refer to the BNP candidate, the phrase is "female fascist".
Naivety is imagining falsely that the BNP's political statements are "a lot gentler than the old ones". First re-educate yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 10:12 AM

Thanks to Mr Grundy for posting the You Tube Link.
In One and a half minutes, It states all that the bnp represent.

I Quote from Nick Griffin.
"This nonsensce that there were gas chambers is a total lie"
You couldn't make it up could you?
Hasn't he seen the films?
Oh so thousands of emaciated actors allowed themselves to be bulldozed into pits full of Lime for fun pretending to be dead? Yeah Right...
Beyond belief.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Stu
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 10:04 AM

Quasimodo the White and the odious Nazi Brons have just been egged outside Parliament.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 10:03 AM

Well, If George wants to turn up at Sidmouth. Fine
After all it's a free country (!)
She can go where she likes.
Lucky her.
Shame that one can't say the same for the Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, Communists, Dissidents, et al, that didn't have that right in Nazi Germany in the 30's and 40's. (Not to mention the millions that were moved to work camps like Buchenwald and Auschwitz and Sobibor, and Belsen.........)
These people never had that right to freedom. Just Death.
So George, If you are reading this. I will be at Sidmouth. I will not enter a dialogue with you. I will send you to Coventry. (You know, that English city that your Lord and Master destroyed?)
Have a Lovely Summer.
Ralph
PS Yes and It's great to see jOhn of Hull back on line!!
Wonderful!

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 09:40 AM

Someone up the thread named a black singer and morris dancer who frequents the Middle Bar (I won't name him again because I don't think he posts here and I would not want to embarrass him). How is he, or the people who like and respect him, meant to feel when there is someone in the room who openly represents a party calling for the voluntary, and ultimately involuntary, repatriation of everyone who isn't ethnically British?

yes, this man now represents Britain in Europe

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Stu
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 09:26 AM

"I spend a lot of time in a wheelchair and so far she has not tried to push me off the pier."

Probably because you're not black, Asian or Jewish.

Truth is, I can't see anyone who wants to beat her up on the street (which is what most anti-BNP people want to avoid and should be thundered against), but people are well within their rights to express their disgust and disapproval of the BNP. Any of us with black and Asian friends, or who have relatives that saw the holocaust at first hand and understand a little of the effect of that particular episode of history has had might well feel pretty strongly about the attitude of these people.

In Germany in the 1920s Nazism started as a movement of political dissent and ended up with an atrocity being committed that will take an age to recover from. You want reasons why people want to stop Griffin, the BNP and the ignorant fools or who vote for them?

There are 6 million reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: greensue
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 08:52 AM

Gervaise Webb, sorry if i've misspelt your name, icant seem to flick backwards and forwards on these pages yet.
I do believe George will be around in August, please sit down with her and ask the questions personally. I for one would be interested. I have very little politics myself, but I do realise that the BNP is a hated organisation ( yes I do understand why)even though their modern political statements seem a lot gentler than the old ones. I wouldn't think of the right questions to ask.
I spend a lot of time in a wheelchair and so far she has not tried to push me off the pier.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 08:46 AM

From the 'Folk Against Facism' Facebook page:

"The UK folk scene is a welcoming and inclusive one...."

I'm not sayin' nuthin'.....

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 08:45 AM

Jeddy. Your name only appears in purple to you. We all see it as blue. Don't get paranoid though, I see my name in purple, you see it in blue.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: greensue
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 08:11 AM

I have read only the first 50 or so of the posts on this subject and totally agree with Little Hawk, How can all of you spitting fire and disgust hope to persuade a nieve girl that she is wrong. Those of you who will not talk to her, would ban her from singing with you and want to beat her up in the street, how does that show you up? How does it re educate her? All you needed to say was that you were supprised at her declaration, and would not have chosen that party to stand for yourselves. Oh and I have never heard her sing any of these racist songs that have been refered to. I shall continue to speak to her and listen to her singing.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 07:18 AM

Little Hawk wrote

Tug the Cox, I think you are either willfully misunderstanding me in order to score some bogus points that have no real basis...or you have a need to have something to get upset about....or you're honestly failing utterly to understand what I posted in the first place.

Probably the last option, but not intentionally, have PH' you. Cheers. Jeff

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 06:32 AM

I have steeered clear of this thread, anything I would have to say would be so obvious it isn't worth saying. But now I would like to say, with Backwoodsman above, that it is great to see Sir jOhn back among us, and in a good cause.He has always been our most eloquent poster, and I would just like to back what he said 100%, there's nothing I could add to it.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Penny S.
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 06:06 AM

Back to the bottom of the page, and to the point a bit. On a van belonging to a firm of builders. "You've had the cowboys. Now try the Indians. J Singh and Sons" (Name may be wrong, but not the source.)

Hope you don't mind, Kat.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Stu
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 05:32 AM

DML reader leaps to the defence of the BNP by trotting out the same hate disguised as fact that we've come to expect from their deluded members. I'd like to see a scrap of evidence to support a single one of the statements you make in your post DMR.* Post links to back up all those accusations and 'facts'.

Searchlight reveals much of the BNP's true nature in an article here.





* The odd thing is, DMR's rant is the same turgid propagandist bullshit he so professes to hate from the other parties.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Lox
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 05:29 AM

DMR,

These actions sound terrible.

Could you provide links or sources so that we can go and find out more about them?

An independant source would be useful so that you can show it isn't just BNP propaganda.

Thanks ...

... oh ... and the best of British ...

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Dave Earl
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 04:38 AM

Seems that more Middle Bar Singers are voicing thier feelings in here.

Much as it saddens me to loose a friend it does seem that MBSGeorge has shot herself in the foot and made herself unwelcome in the Anchor.

If you're reading this thread George it is probably best if don't attend the Middle Bar Sessions in future - too many people will object unless you can find it in yourself to retract.

I didn't want to have to say this but I don't want to see bad feelings and did-harmony in the Middle Bar.

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 04:10 AM

Great to see The Rt. Hon. Sir jOhn of 'Ull back with us.
Stick around fella, we miss you!

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 01:19 AM

To get back to the OP's outing of her self. I don't think that her esteemed party leader is going to be any too pleased with her doing so. For a long time, Mr Griffin and his cohorts have been trying to winkle their way into the traditions of Britain, with their mis-appropriation of the flag of St George etc. (On one of their sites they show a Cotswold team dancing morris, and call it Rapper. They can't even get that right!!!)
And George has blown it for him. There is a group just started on Facebook called Folk against Fascism, run by Ruth Archer (Joan Crump of this parish and Sidmouth Fest artistic director), So go and join it.
As for MBSGeorge She should probably go somewhere else for her holidays this year...The Carribean would be apposite.
She'll get very bored at Sidmouth thats for sure.
PS I wonder if she's got any Leon Rosselson or Roy Baley CDs in her collection?

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 11:22 PM

Tug the Cox, I think you are either willfully misunderstanding me in order to score some bogus points that have no real basis...or you have a need to have something to get upset about....or you're honestly failing utterly to understand what I posted in the first place.

I have always been in favour of the civil laws we alreaady have in place such as "the laws of Libel, Slander, the Official Secrets Act (depending on what they're trying to hide and from whom...there are some secrets the general public ought to have had revealed to them by now); and I'm in favour of the laws against conspiracy, the laws against causing a breech of the peace, the laws againsts inciting violence, and the laws against inciting racial hatred etc..."

It is downright silly that you would think, on the basis of what I have posted here, that I would not support such laws. I do NOT feel that people have the right to use their freedom of speech to break any of the civil laws! I am also 100% against anyone harassing ethnic minorities...or other minorities. I'm against people harassing other people, period, no matter who is doing the harassing. I'm also against bullies. Same basic thing. God knows, I had to deal with a lot of them back when I was in school, because I was in a distinct minority at the time, let me tell you.

I said, simply, that (the right of) freedom of speech is for everyone in a democracy, not just for some...and I mean by that, that everyone who obeys the many normal civil laws that we all take for granted has the right to speak their opinions freely and openly. Duh! Why should I even have to explain this? It's bloody obvious. Only fascists and other dictatorial regimes will take away that universal right of freedom of speech from certain segments of the population, based solely on what their opinions are.

Get a grip before you also accuse me of supporting torture, bigamy, wife-stabbing, patricide, noodle-bending, cannibalism, and abuse of helpless farm animals...

Yeah, I know...you wish I and my opinions were as awful as you would like me to be so you can prove to yourself how awfully bad I am....(sigh)...but I'm not. You are engaging in a self-serving fantasy when it comes to that.

****

Nick - Okay, let's see then. What is your understanding of liberalism?

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 10:12 PM

bnp are rubbish, and if you vote for them or you are them you are rubbish as well.they are shit, really shit, they are racist, racist is wrong, they don't like black people, i do, i think they are ok.
and someone is saying they don't like gays or disableds, i am not gay but i am a disabled, [i am deaf], and some of my freinds is gay, they don't do know harm to anyone and are nice people, so wahts got to do with bnp then, ? [none of there bisiness!

bnp people are thick and ignorant,
MBS George-you are thick and ignoarant, and you are the most rubbish person i seen on mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 09:21 PM

Profile says she is studying "AS law." Can someone tell me what AS law is?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: jeddy
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 08:51 PM

okay silly question coming up... why is my name in puplr and everyone elses is in blue?    i told you it was silly

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Nick
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 08:35 PM

Perhaps how you present yourself in different places is an interesting reflection on the soul

Mudcat profile picture

Under the guise of they want to suppress the pictures

I guess we make choices as to how we present ourselves to the world.

Little Hawk - our understanding of liberalism is I think very different.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: GUEST,Tony Day
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 08:19 PM

My attention has just been drawn to this thread which I have read with some alarm.

I share the view of those who would find it uncomfortable to be in the same room, especially a singaround, with someone who openly supports hatred towards my friends in that room, on the basis of the colour of their skin, their sexuality or where they were born.

For this reason I hope never to see or speak to the person concerned again.

Tony Day
Middle Bar Singer

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 08:02 PM

Oh Dear , Little Hawk, how many times must we argue this while fascists take advantage of our lack of action to harass etnic minorities.
   You cannot stop people airing their opininons in a democracy ( despite the fact that fascists have always sought to do this through violence and intimidation) NO, but you don't actualy have to provide them with a platform.
   Freedom of speech is for all. NO, a lie put about by fascists, we have always had the laws of Libel, Slander and Blasphemy, the Oficial Secrets Act, all sorts of laws against conspiracy, laws against causing a breech of the peace, inciting violence, racial hatred etc. Freedom TO is always second to Freedom FROM in any civilised society.
Please stop encouraging violence and hatred.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: jeddy
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 08:02 PM

"With the success of the BNP in winning TWO seats in the European Parliament, the three main parties are prattling on YET AGAIN about "connecting with the people" and trotting out the usual tired worn out rhetoric about "fascists" "racists" etc, not daring to face the obvious fact that it was exactly their BETRAYAL of the British people that has led to the historic rise of the BNP!"

how many times do people have to tell you the ONLY REASON the bnp got any seats at all is because of the LOW TURNOUT, NOT because they won the right to be there.

"If you continually satirize and ridicule a certain viewpoint you are doing exactly the same thing as facism, in that you are making it impossible for anyone without a great degree of strength (i.e. learning to have no friends) to believe it."

have you heard or rather read anyone satirize or ridicule anyone on this thread ?

i doubt it unless it is over a small joke. we would never think that what the bnp stand for is something to joke about.

who are you guest guest guest? if you think you can insult those of us who have the courage to reveal ourselves, while you hide behind a GUEST name and expect us to respect you, you are kidding yourself.
come back under a name you will keep and identified with and i will listen to what you have to say. x x

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 07:49 PM

Hey, DMR, either your posts are beoming more surreal by the minute, are your not a satiriast at all. Either way, moderators, can you ask DMR to actually become a member, he/she might be a guest who's stayed too long.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 07:34 PM

Wanna know about the wonderful Andrew Brons? 'ere, 'ave a read! http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=4179

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 07:16 PM

With the success of the BNP in winning TWO seats in the European Parliament, the three main parties are prattling on YET AGAIN about "connecting with the people" and trotting out the usual tired worn out rhetoric about "fascists" "racists" etc, not daring to face the obvious fact that it was exactly their BETRAYAL of the British people that has led to the historic rise of the BNP!

When the BNP called for a halt to immigration they called them "fascists and racists."

Now EVERY party is prattling about the "need to do something about immigration" AND STILL DOING NOTHING!

When the BNP called for "British jobs for British workers" they called them "fascists and racists."

Then Gordon Brown stole that phrase from the BNP AND DID NOTHING about immigrants taking British jobs.

And how could he when UNITE was busy setting up recruiting agaencies abroad for immigrants to get those same British jobs Gordon Brown prattled on about being for the British?

When Nick Griffin warned about the growing Islamic threat he was labelled "fascist and racist" and the BNP labelled "Islamophobes" even though he actually warned that the gravest threat came from British born Muslims in Bradford - then 7/7 proved him absolutely right even though the media stll labelled the BNP "fascists and racists."

When he warned about the increasing sexual grooming of children by Asians and Muslims he was called a "fascist" and a "racist" and the police let these vile practices continue in the name of "commumity relations."

When the BNP revealed the expenses scandal (and yes, they were the first to reveal it - a fact the media lied about) they were studiously ignored by the media and the MPs filling their boots at the taxpayers expense at Troughminster!

EVERYTHING the BNP was first to bring to the public's attention was derided and defamed by the REAL fascists in our society: The MPs at westminster, and the controlled media who act as the propaganda arm of the government!

And when the BNP campaigned on behalf of the Ghurkas the media resorted to outright lies (fed by the Marxist "Searchlight" organisation who they trot out whenever a lie about the BNP has to be fabricated) that the BNP was against the Ghurkas, even going as far a printing a FAKE leaflet, produced by Searchlight, which was distributed by a full time employee of the so-called 'Tyneside and Wear Anti Fascist Association'!

And some Labour councils went totally against the law when they covered up BNP billboards in the days leading up to the European and local elections!

And that is not the mention the deliberate harassment and illegal arrest and detention of BNP members by the police in order to give the media another BNP bashing headline!


So who are the REAL fascists in Britain today - a perfectly legal political party or those who can only oppose it by lies, smears, intimidation, harrassment and outright violence?

Good night and The Best of British to you all.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: GUEST,Reece
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 07:16 PM

If you continually satirize and ridicule a certain viewpoint you are doing exactly the same thing as facism, in that you are making it impossible for anyone without a great degree of strength (i.e. learning to have no friends) to believe it.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 07:15 PM

I have absolutely no problem with freedom of speech. Indeed, I am all for it. Save for limitations on things as yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater. And I favor being able to take someone to court in the case of libel or slander (remembering, of course, that if what the defendant has written or said is the truth, that is not libel or slander). Other than that, I'd say people should be free to say whatever they wish, no matter how brilliant or nincompoopish, and express whatever opinions they wish. I reserve that right for myself as well, of course.

And that latter includes my right to disagree with someone else's opinion and say so, first as reasonably as I can, and if that fails to get through to the person, as vigorously as I feel the situation warrants. Up to and including pointing out to that person that they are advocating the ideas of a fascist or a bigot, if that is indeed what they are advocating.

I feel that as a person of good conscience, when I hear people expressing ideas of that nature, I am morally obligated to speak out in opposition.

Some people object to this and, instead, advocate pussy-footing around and being wimpishly polite to someone who is acting like a boor and a bully and who has no intention of engaging in rational discussion, and try to get everyone, including the boor-bully, to hold hands, sway back and forth, and sing "Kumbaya."

Can you imagine trying that with Hitler, Mussolini, or David Duke—or, for that matter, Nick Griffin—and having them go all gooey?

I don't think so.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 07:14 PM

Despite all the vitriol being aimed at the BNP(who did rather well in the recent election), the most disgusting political crime that I can remeber in the UK, was the sight of Labour and Conservatives united and marching behind the odious Blair and Bush(the chimp and the poodle) into Iraq.

A proper public inquiry into the reasons for war has been promised, but don't hold your breath.

I don't think the BNP(and I'm not a supporter) could manage anything quite so vile.

glasshouses?....stones?

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 06:57 PM

"A BNP candidate is standing for a Party that believes in evil things."
But for those of us who see runaway immigration as an evil thing... " Rig

Ye gods, Rig. Give it a rest, will you? Or at least find another way of expressing your worry?

For instance, you keep talking about "runaway immigration" when, unless you are indeed actively bigotted, you actually mean world over-population.

Because: (listen!) If all those criminal people who are thirsting to enter your country illegally were to stay home but kept on reproducing, eventually that country or continent might become unlivable, with mass extinctions. If none of them came to your country, your country might flourish in blind isolation but I suspect that few of the people in it would feel proud of themselves.

On the other hand, if some of those same people travelled to other countries it would NOT mean the "end of the planet". What it would do is relieve some of the pressure on the populations of their home countries.

As I've said before, I have great difficulty seeing the justice in believing that some people have a greater right to survive than do others.

Come on.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 06:52 PM

LH, I think you might look again at your list of exemplars.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Gervase
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 05:32 PM

i have no idea why when she has openly stood for a public vote she cannot at least give answers to those of us who have a geniuine interest as to her motives.

Because the beliefs of the BNP are predicated largely on a series of lies, and therefore won't stand up to scrutiny. They might sound OK when shouted out on a street corner or in a pub, but examine them, test them and look for the truth and they just crumble.
I, too, would love to hear George's justification, but I'm guessing that when she thinks deeply about it she has a hard enough time justifying it to herself without coming on here to do it.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 03:57 PM

Just saw this on the United Against Fascism website.

"British National Party (BNP) gain its first two seats in the European parliament. BNP candidate Andrew Brons, a former stalwart of the National Front...."

Just about says it all doesn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 03:43 PM

"but I've never heard anyone deny the existence of residential schools"

Sorry I should have made things clearer. My sister and a friend were having coffee at a cafe in Victoria, BC., Canada, and they were discussing the residential schools, someone, rudely, turned from another table and said that the whole compensation programme, for ex-residents, was a bagful of lies, because the whole resdential school issue was lies to begin with. This attitude is not wide spread nor is there anything printed, but, apparently, it's out there.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: jeddy
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 03:39 PM

pants hit the wrong bit,

to investigate who we are voting for and what they truely stand for.

however i feel like i am preaching to the converted.
i have no idea how to get through to those who really have no interest in politics without sounding like i am preaching.

ok hit the button in the right place now.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: jeddy
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 03:35 PM

the freedom of speech, hummm, i have no problem with anyone who says what they think, i do have a problem if that person cannot explain why they think the way they do. GEORGE has said, this is what i believe and nothing you say or do will change my mind. why? is it because she is embarassed that she was taken in? is it simply because she doesn't understand the wider implications of her decision?

i have no idea why when she has openly stood for a public vote she cannot at least give answers to those of us who have a geniuine interest as to her motives.

the other problem with "democracy" is we only get told half the story, surely democracy means being given the facts so you can make your' own mind up?
something the bnp will never do becuase they know that the entire country will turn against them, not just those of us who have enough concience

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 03:20 PM

You cannot prevent people from spreading their views in a democracy.

You can disagree with those views. You can point out the fallacies in those views. You can satirize those views in a comical act. You can also make such things as slander, for instance, illegal. You can present your own views of the issues in response. You can promote your own views.

But you cannot prevent people from spreading their honestly held views and beliefs in a democracy. If you want to, then you yourself are abandoning democracy and sliding into fascism.

Freedom of speech isn't for some of the people in a democracy. It's for all the people in a democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: carrot
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 03:13 PM

It's not just the immigration that's an issue here, it's also the homophobia, the holocaust denial, the suggestion that gay/lesbian/disabled people should be sterilised, the suggestion made by one candidate that 'rape isn't such a bad thing'.

They have evil views, and shouldn't be allowed to spread them.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: meself
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 03:10 PM

Rifleman - So far I've been with you all the way - but I've never heard anyone deny the existence of residential schools. Are you serious? If so, can you direct us to any source or evidence to back that statement up?

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 03:03 PM

Walkabout's Verse gets nothing but the most outright nastiness for his beliefs on repatriation. Yet here are some saying they're happy to sit down and have a drink and a gentle discussion with someone who is actually not just a supporter of the BNP, but one of their politicians.

Fair point Lizzie. WAV is one man on his own and not as far as I understand a member of any extremist organisations. MBS George on the other hand is a paid up member and wannabe political represntative of a fascist party. I think we'd have more of a chance winning WAV over than George, on balance...

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 02:54 PM

WAV ,is Irrelevant,he is not a member of the BNP .But I understand your point Lizzie.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 02:41 PM

"As an (ignorant/naive) American (USA type) these posts could come across to me as alarmist and paranoic concerning a small and surely insignificant extremist group"

The problem is that the BNP has gone through a huge PR excercise in recent years to move away from the characterisation of "an extremist group". They have played down the racism and played up those concerns which speak to lots of white, working-class people. If we take our eye off the ball, they will claim a lot of disaffected middle ground. We have to keep reminding people of who they really are and what they stand for.


Nick Griffin teaches American White Nationalists/KKK to "sell" their policies

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 02:23 PM

"A BNP candidate is standing for a Party that believes in evil things."

                  But for those of us who see runaway immigration as an evil thing...

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 02:21 PM

Sort of like "from tiny acorns mighty oaks do grow", eh, Ebbie?

The thing is, though, if you purport to have a democracy at all, then that entails the risk and displeasure of hearing and putting up with the existence of extremist views that offend you, doesn't it?

There's always a risk that those extemist views may end up dominating a society. One way to prevent that risk is to forcibly shut down all views you regard as "extremist" so that you can control the situation.

But then you have yourself become the very thing you feared. You have become a supporter of a form of extremism and totalitarianism.

Bit of a conundrum, isn't it?

Extremist views generally gain power in a very bad economic situation...or in the wake of some shocking incident that polarizes public opinion.

Some examples of that:

the Great Depression (and other such financial crises of the past)

the Reichstag Fire

the sinking of the Maine in Havana Harbour

the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand of Austria in 1914

and.....

911

It is at those times of crisis that cooler heads must prevail if an already bad situation is not to be turned into something even worse.

I see little danger of the BNP seizing control of the political process in the UK. I think they could only have hope of doing so if economic conditions in the UK got very, very bad to the point where people were desperate and very afraid. Then perhaps.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 02:16 PM

I'd just like to point something out here.

Walkabout's Verse gets nothing but the most outright nastiness for his beliefs on repatriation. Yet here are some saying they're happy to sit down and have a drink and a gentle discussion with someone who is actually not just a supporter of the BNP, but one of their politicians.

Now, don't you think that either those who feel this way should sit down with WAV and have a gentle conversation, or else treat 'George' in the same way they treat Wav?

You can't have one rule for one, and one rule for others....purely because it's someone you happen to know.

Or can you?

Is it all down to being a Middle Bar Singer, which carries with it some kind of magical excuse?

There are no excuses.

A BNP candidate is standing for a Party that believes in evil things.

Subject: RE: BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jun 09 - 01:57 PM

As an (ignorant/naive) American (USA type) these posts could come across to me as alarmist and paranoic concerning a small and surely insignificant extremist group (I over-simplify) but then Crow Sister recounts this: "One young guy of my aquaintance is a genuinely good person, I've never heard him express any form of racism - he likes what the BNP have to say about supporting the working class. He likes what they say about ensuring British interests are not undermined by Europe. He also thinks it unfair that British people don't recieve the same degree of support in their own country, that foreign people do. Now that's the way the BNP would put it."

And then it reminds me strongly what a German national told me once. He said that when Hitler first came to power the working men liked and admired him. He said that for the first time the bosses came into the pubs and sat down and drank with their working men, that the class barriers had been broken by Hitler. He said that it was hard for the working men to come to the point where they admitted that Hitler was a "rascal" (his term).