BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:15 AM

...and who's accusing them of bigotry?

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:14 AM

Who's showing resentment toward "the Brits", GfS?

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:11 AM

Even though 'BP' stands for 'British Petroleum', it is a multi-national conglomerate. So let's not be too trigger happy with resentment toward the Brits, nor are they 'bigoted', like some of the mentally challenged on here, like to spew. Also does, Carl-Henric Svanberg, sound like a British name???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:10 AM

And on top of all of that, Richard, on top of all of that, BP are forbidding any of the people whose livelihood they have destroyed, and who are now forced to work for BP cleaning up their mess just in order to survive, they are forbidding these people to wear protective gear or they will be fired. So people are getting sick. Thousands of people are having their health ruined because B fucking P doesn't want to look bad and they don't want anyone to think that their mess is dangerous to people. These people belong in jail. For the rest of their lives. And with you not only defending them, but attacking anyone who is pissed off about this, makes you look like you don't give a flying fuck what happens to any of the people whose lives have been destroyed and will be destroyed by their criminal negligence. You should go to work for BP. You've got what it takes to fit right into their corporate culture.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:01 AM

"...because they are an English company not only does not make them liable but is wrong in principle. Their nationality is and should be regarded as a matter of irrelevance. That is not what is happening"

But don't you see, Richard, that you are the one who persists in labeling them as English?

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:54 AM

Richard, in all of the coverage I've seen of this disaster (and I've seen a lot), I have never seen anyone focusing on the idea of BP supposedly being a British company, or being "English". All of the criticism I have seen has been direct their being a huge corporation that is guilty of serial criminal negligence. That's all. Nothing whatever about Britishness or Englishness. Nobody really gives a flying fuck where BP are from. We're too busy worrying about our fucking Gulf of Mexico, and our fucking Mississippi Delta and all of our fucking pristine wetlands that are being fucking destroyed by an evil fucking criminally negligent fucking behemoth of a corporation. You really need to get off of this "bigotry" jag that you're on, because it's making you look a total prat.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:47 AM

The spill is ultimately BP's fault, because the circumnavigated the inspections. They complied with 6 out of 21, points of safety precautions. Had they done all 21, this would not have happened.

The administration is responsible for the foot dragging, to take care of it. The President should have called for a Federal disaster, early on. He didn't. That is ultimately his fault. Within 24 hours of the spill Norway, offered help, being as they were familiar with those problems up in the North Sea. Obama turned it down. The Netherlands offered help; he turned it down.

Two things that caught my attention, consistent with what I've been a tellin' you. Obama turned International offers of help down, for whatever reason(we can all speculate as to why), but whatever the reason, perhaps he should 'cool it' when he goes abroad and spouts off with apologies, because 'America is arrogant'. He is pretty damn arrogant, himself!

The other thing, that I heard on the 'news' today, and you can all hear it, is after the meeting at the White House, the BP chairman, Carl-Henric Svanberg, comes out, and addresses the people affected by the oil spill, saying he is going to pay for the damages, but uses the term, ' the little people' when referring to them!..PARDON ME???

To me, as I've posted before, that shows a contempt, and a 'looking down your nose' attitude toward folks, who are not one of his 'elite' class....just as the political elite disregard their constituents!

We are getting it from both sides! That being said, the Republicans are making hay of this whole sordid affair..BUT..they still have offered NOTHING for people to vote FOR, other than voting AGAINST the Democrat incumbents...which looks like a slam dunk. THIS IS STUPID!!

It should be obvious to even the most challenged observer, that this doesn't work. We just went through that with Bush..and look what we got!

Okay, enough for my 2 cents worth. I could go on, but some numb-nut will jump up, and frantically foaming at the mouth accuse me of being a bigot-homophobe-hater-of butterflies, and lady bugs!...and whale killer!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:38 AM

Don't be silly. Svanberg is saying what he has to say - the confession of a defendant in a show trial.

Tootler, read my explanation above about liability for sub-contractors. The principal has liability for the negligent choice of subcontractor - and hence the liability of Exxonn for the Exxonn Valdez.

BP were (IMHO) not negligent to subcontract to Transocean, Halliburton, or Cameron-Cooper. They may be liable for their own instructions, if negligent (in general there is usually no strict liability for being wrong, merely liability for being negligent) but at the time the US commentators started hounding BP (and, in the case of Obama, specifically calling it "British Petroleum") there was no knowledge of any (alleged) BP negligence. It was a hanging jury.

Do the drilling permissions granted to BP make BP strictly liable for all spillage resulting from the permitted operation? If so BP are liable. Does some other principle of applicable law make BP strictly liable for all spillage resulting from the permitted operation? If so BP are liable.

If not then (a) BP are only liable if THEIR fault can be shown and (b) the lawyers who drafted the drilling licences for the relevant US authority were (probably) negligent. I had a partner once who used to negotiate and draft drilling licences for some small countries not all that far from the affected area in this case.

BP are probably capitalist sociopaths from top to bottom, but that itself does not make them liable, and baying after them because they are an English company not only does not make them liable but is wrong in principle. Their nationality is and shouldbe regarded as a matter of irrelevance. That is not what is happening.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spil
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 10:32 PM

Has no one suggested marching the GP executives down to the shore and tossing them in to sink or swim in their own oil spill? Why should the pelicans and other sea creatures have all the fun?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:41 PM

Svanberg probably wishes that he had stayed with Ericsson.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Tootler
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 07:40 PM

...US commentators are trying to pass the buck to BP

They are not passing the buck. BP are responsible for the current oil spill off the US coast nor are BP denying it.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 07:21 PM

Those Americans are being so mean! Doggone them! At least, the British press says so. And they should know. There's no indication of it in the American press, which you'd think would be joining in the Brit-bashing if it were an anti-Brit free-for-all. But maybe it's a cover-up conspiracy. Yeah, that's it. If any American newspaper or cable news show or anything looks like it's about to say anything that might spill the beans about our increasing hatred of the United Kingdom, they are hushed by the fellows in the black helicopters and the designer shades.

Anybody? 50p / 25¢ will go a long way toward buying a roll of aluminum foil. (Buy a man a tinfoil hat and you keep him safe from ionizing brain rays for a day. Buy him a roll of aluminum foil and you keep him safe for weeks, easily.)

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 06:06 PM

Svanberg's obviously a bigot!!! Man The Barricades!!!

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Alice
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 05:59 PM

When BP itself has accepted responsibility for it, how can you go on ranting like that?

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 04:57 PM

The BBC, a couple of nights ago, showed the BP sunflower(?) shedding leaves.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 04:44 PM

"Nobody holds the British people responsible."

I'm sure, and to prove it here's Some BP guy with a comedy American accent

;0)

I don't really care either way. But this guys appalling accent did me in!

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 04:14 PM

I think it's time to buy Richard a tinfoil hat.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 04:07 PM

BP has put (?) $20 billion in a fund for relief- we don't know what kind of oversight there will be or how payments will be made.

BP has also suspended dividends for the year.

Don, flow estimates are 30,000 to 60,000 bbl/day, from various sources within university science and engineering departments; BP talks of soon capturing 30,000 bbl/day.
A barrel contains 42 US gallons.
The European standard is tonnes, but most reports use the barrel, or translate into gallons.
(millions make my eyes glaze)

The apologist, Richard Bridge, if he likes the company so much, may soon be able to buy it with pocket change. The suspension of dividends is lowering the share price again (at $31.50 the last time I looked today and as low as $29.58).

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:58 PM

C'mon, Richard.

No "passing the buck" and no "xenophobia" on the part of the vast majority of Americans. Many Americans would be just as angry at Exxon, Shell (Dutch owned), Standard Oil, or Uncle Charlie and his brace-and-bit if they had caused this.

In the Exxon-Valdez oil spill in Prince William Sound, the spill was blamed on Exxon. Sure, it was a drunken captain who was the direct cause of the disaster, but it was still the responsibility of Exxon to see that their tankers had competent crews. The captain had a record of drinking and negligence, but Exxon still kept him on. He was a disaster looking for a place to happen. So Exxon was ultimately responsible.

And it was a BP executive who ordered the drilling crew to speed up the drilling, while the crew argued that it would be unsafe to do so, anticipating what might—and did—happen. The executive was adamant and insisted. Short of mutiny, there was little the drilling crew could do.

BP is ultimately responsible. The fact that BP stands of "British Petroleum" is beside the point. Nobody holds the British people responsible.

The idea that there is bigotry involved is just plain silly.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Alice
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:32 PM

BP has stated they are responsible for damages. There is no passing the buck.

Quote from today:
Mr. Svanberg apologized "to the American people" for the disaster and said that BP would "look after the people affected, and we will repair the damage to this region and the economy."
(New York Times report)

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:06 PM

It's relevant, mousie, because too many US commentators are trying to pass the buck to BP, and in the absence of any good reason it can only be because of xenophobia.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 02:46 PM

You want to make sure you have your units straight. I've heard all sorts of wildly varying reports on how much oil is pouring into the Gulf. Some reports say "barrels" and some reports say "gallons."

So you might want to be clear on what units you're talking about.

Some folks want to make it sound like a piddliig amount, others want to make it sound like it's a cataclysm of galactic proportions. Each for their own reasons. So. . . .

Me? No axe to grind. I'm just waiting for something definitive.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 02:25 PM

Is that clear now?

Clear as crystal. But what's not clear is why the fuck it matters. If a company has done wrong, it will be called on the carpet, even if it's duly registered in Antarctica.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 11:26 AM

GTS,

What, you don't think Obama is telling the truth???

I have been informed that whatever he says is true.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 11:18 AM

Bruce: "Present reports from US government sources are 35,000 to 60,000 barrels per day.
Previous estimate was 40,000 barrels per day.
Before that ,it was various numbers, starting at 5,000 barrels per day, then 10,000, then 20,000."

Sounds like an auction!
When the truth, of IF the truth comes out, Bruce, the numbers will stagger your imagination!

If it is a Government report, you can count on it being a lie!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 06:57 AM

The volume of the emissions is nothing to do with who is to blame for them. All very dreadful, and a waste too, and when are Transocean, Halliburton, and Cameron-Cooper going to step up to the plate?

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 06:36 AM

Present reports from US government sources are 35,000 to 60,000 barrels per day.


Previous estimate was 40,000 barrels per day.

Before that ,it was various numbers, starting at 5,000 barrels per day, then 10,000, then 20,000.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:18 AM

Incidentally, BP PLC (that stands for "Public Limited Company" is incorporated and exists under and in accordance with the laws of England and Wales. It was incorporated in 1909, and its registered number is 00102498. Its registered office is in London (it also happens to be its head office but that is not the point). It was incorporated as "the British Petroleum Company Ltd". It became a PLC when that status became available as a matter of law.   It changed its name to   BP Amoco PLC in 1998 and to BP PLC in 2001.

It is an English company, regardless of who owns the shares or who the directors are, or who by any means controls it.

Is that clear now?

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:16 AM

Once again, CarolC, thank you!! Very interesting video!....and it brought up several items I previously posted, about multinational corporations(BP), having larger budgets than most countries, and they are likened to 'countries' of their own...and how they can thumb their nose, at our government, and the EPA. Again, I posted that this is "the corporation machine versus the political machine"...and yet they have corrupted each other, and the PEOPLE are their victims..and we virtually have no say! On top of that, they both are lying through their teeth, to us!

You go girl!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:09 AM

I understand that members of Congress are slowly starting to question the practices of US based big oil too, and that a pattern is emerging that none are any better placed than BP to deal with a blowout like this one.

Tiddley-pom.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 02:36 AM

http://www.democracynow.org./2010/6/9/years_of_internal_bp_probes_warned

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 01:13 AM

300!
Thank you CarolC!
As to the toxins, I also posted that, too.
More will come out....watch!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 12:53 AM

BP hires mercenaries to hide the evidence

More about the coverup

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 12:40 AM

A few posts ago, I posted that the amount of oil leaking was MUCH higher than being reported. I also said, that this is not going to go away soon, and as time goes on, more of the story will come out. Since then the reports have been modified TWICE, within a couple of days, like I said. Now, they're saying it is up to 400,000 barrels a day...though the figure is still higher..much higher. Just thought I'd point that out...to all my naysayer critics!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: GUEST,Uncle Rumpo
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 08:37 PM

blame who they like,
claim as much $$$$$$$$$$ compensation off BP as they like,

but some disgustingly ruthless greedy power crazed yanks
long time ago decided
drilling in a world valued eco environment beauty spot
would be a splendidly profitable good idea....


live by the oil
die by the oil...

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 08:07 PM

Oil spill casts doubts on deep water exploration

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international-business/Oil-spill-casts-doubts-on-deep-water-exploration/articleshow/604

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 06:23 PM

the teachers unions – whose representatives pay Congress to do things against the public interest.

When did teachers and other union members stop being members of the public?

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 06:14 PM

Thanks, Alice.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 06:10 PM

Whew. Wouldn't want to get in *his* way. :)

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Alice
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 05:47 PM

Svanberg photo at BP.com

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 05:39 PM

Sorry- didn't work. Probably can be found through www.bp.com

Andy Inglis, Board member (Pembroke College, Cambridge, engineering) is Chief Executive, Exploration and Production. Earlier, had led BP's deepwater Gulf of Mexico exploration, 1997-1999, before moving to US natural gas business. Tony Heyward was his predecessor as CE, Exp.&Prod.

Haven't heard anything from him, either.

There are 13 Board members, plus the Chairman.

Two Board Members are American, or former Americans.

Robert Dudley, BP Managing Director, is American. Amoco beginning.

Dr. Byron Grote, Chief Financial Officer, has a PhD in chemistry, Cornell Univ. Standard Oil of Ohio and Kennicott Mining positions in his early history, BP since 1988 (Alaskan area originally).

Cynthia Caroll (Canadian, now British?) started with Amoco; currently a director also with DeBeers sa and Anglo Platinum Ltd; former chief executive of Anglo American plc.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 05:09 PM

PB has put forth this image of Svanberg-
Svanberg

Those eyes-

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 05:00 PM

Carl-Henric Svanberg, the new BP chairman, has been summoned to a meeting with Pres. Obama.

He has been chief executive of Ericsson Telecommunications. He is on the board of "9 different organizations across 12 different industries" -Bloomberg Business Week.

Annual Compensation from Ericsson was 17 million Kroner.
Degree from Uppsala (and a couple of honorary doctorates.

Not versed in the oil business.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 04:47 PM

If one is uninformed, one either doesn't care, or doesn't look.

BBC, of course, is on many cable systems, we get it 24 hours a day.
The internet has too many news sources to list.
A few I look at semi-regularly-

South China Morning Post- one in today's news- "Britain is cracking down on corruption among British companies worldwide..." May have far-reaching impact on Hong Kong and mainland firms-

Al Jazeera- A report that Pakistan's Intelligence Service (ISI) backs Taliban- analysis of a paper from London School of Economics. Causing worry to US forces.

Arizona Republic- various articles about Bill 1070 and its effects on legal immigrants and citizens. Many are worried, some are angered about being harrassed because they are darker-skinned. The Tucson police chief is worried that Sheriff Arapaio, etc., are causing conditions that may lead to riots. Some Hispanics are considering moving to another state.

London Times- BP is considering putting several billions into a ring-fenced cleanup fund to appease Americans

Where is the PB chairman, Carl-Henric Svenberg? He has been silent.
He should be active in the disaster.

BP was worth only $73 billion on Friday. It is vulnerable to takeover by Exxon-Mobil, Chevron, etc. Unlikely until after things quiet down and the gusher controlled.

and so on- anything and everything is available

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Alice
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 03:59 PM

I am a news "junkie". I wake up to NPR news. I listen to the non-commercial radio news on National Public Radio, which includes BBC news at night. I usually have tv news on in the background while I work, which is CNN, MSNBC, non-commercial Public Broadcasting System, which includes BBC, CSPAN, and I check numerous news web sites during the day, BBC, Pravda, and Reporters Without Borders, covering world news, at

http://en.rsf.org/ Reporters Sans Frontieres

Most Americans I think are just trying to get through the day. They may not be very well informed about what is going on in the world, as putting food on the table and keeping the rent or mortgage paid is their main focus. Most Americans don't vote, unfortunately. Most do not have work schedules that allow them to keep up on daily news from sources around the world.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spil
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 03:38 PM

"Common delusions notwithstanding, the United States, I submit, is not a democracy"

There is no pure democracy anywhere but there are tendencies that are apparent in some countries, more than others.

"First, we have two identical parties which, when elected, do very much the same things."

Not historically. The Party of FDR was considerably different than that of G.W. Bush.

"But suppose that you live in a suburban jurisdiction of 300,000. You as an individual mean nothing. To affect policy, you would have to form an organization, canvass for votes, solicit contributions, and place ads in newspapers. This is a fulltime job, prohibitively burdensome."

Burdensome, perhaps but well worth the effort. This is how grass-roots issues become national policy. This is true democracy albeit not "pure".

"Fourth are impenetrable bureaucracies."

Not totally. They are porous when world situations change such as the policies of the Pentagon during the Vietnam War.

"Fifth is the invisible bureaucracy"

Again, not totally. It is incumbent as a citizen to know who is who in these bureaucracies and to advertise their misdeeds. This has and can be done.

"Sixth, there is the illusion of journalism."

Most mainstream media are corporate controlled. But there are other wonderful voices to be relied upon such as Amy Goodman on Democracy, Now. There are also certain blogs and magazines that tell the truth. Again, it's up to an informed citizenry to find them.

"Seventh, and a bit more subtle, is the lack of centers of demographic power in competition with the official government."

This may be a good thing. Centralized power can sometimes be dictatorial whereas a displacement of various power sources can get things done particularly on a local level.
Sometimes coalitions of power groups can be successful in instituting public policy.

"Eighth, we are ruled not by a government but by a class."

People are not ruled by any institution if they choose not to be. We are seeing that today in the grass-roots although some of that is misguided such as the so-called "Tea Party" which is corporate sponsored. On an individual level, a person doesn't have to buy in to the prevailing views of any administration of government. There can be still in this country countervailing group influences. We are not totally a fascist country yet.

"Finally, though it may not be deliberate, the schools produce a pitiably ignorant population that can't vote wisely."

This depends on the school. Education has suffered a set-back in its ability to get students to think, but young people can sometimes overcome this and can find support for their dissent in certain schools. We see this on Berkeley campuses and other institutions where the students question the prevailing authorities.

"When people sense this and decline to vote, we cluck like disturbed hens and speak of apathy. Nope. Just common sense."

There is nothing commonsensical about not voting. The idea of democracy is predicated on the importance of the process. Obama's election, regardless of his betrayal in his administration, represented a willingness of the electorate to want to improve the government from what it had under Bush. This can happen again.

When the government is not working especially well, there is always a tendency to say that it will never work well. This is not historically true. Often world events will dictate that repairs must be made as in the case of say FDR during the Depression. One can criticize FDR on many levels but overall, there was an improvement in the way government worked under his administration. Even the war-mongering Johnson got us a Civil Rights Act with Thurgood Marshall.

It's fashionable today to take a Libertarian view that government never works. There is no substantial proof of this, however, historically. The evidence points in the opposite direction. When Wall Street becomes unregulated, economic chaos ensues. That's what caused the Great Depression.

Today's "critics" look to a under-achiever policy, if it isn't perfect than why bother?   It's easy to take that view but not responsible. As citizens we have the responsibility to know what's going on and attempt to change it if we think it's wrong. The arm-chair cop-out is to sit back and throw darts.

I, for one, am not totally disillusioned about our government and the problems of power and policy. Sometimes it's important to read about the stuff that isn't in the accepted history books such as the role of labor. It has been counted down and out only by those
who don't have the information or have other agendas to know what's really going on.

In short, there are alternative methods for getting newsworthy information without succumbing to corporate mainstream media.

Hey, Mudcat is one.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 03:25 PM

""The mantle is not involved; at this location it is much deeper.
Temperatures are high, however, also leading to high gas pressures.""

Did you get that GfS. Given the averages involved, it was a racing certainty that such would be the case, since the thinnest parts of the crust would be concentrated at the edges of the emerging tectonic plates, none of which are anywhere near the drilling sites, being concentrated in the Pacific "Ring of Fire", and the Atlantic "Mid Ocean Ridge". The Carribean and the Gulf of Mexico would presumably be closer to the subduction zone at the other edge of the plate, where the crust would be thicker.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 02:12 PM

Handled from there should read- handled from the London headquarters.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 02:10 PM

BP, in their own website, states "We are the largest non-US company on the New York Stock Exchange." Their head office, and legal operations, are handled from there.
Stock ownership does not determine the ownership of a company, unless it has control of the Board and legal operations.

All this posted above.

Stock Ownership 44% UK, 39% US; Institutional ownership 33% UK, 25% US, rest individuals.
Also posted above.

Stock ownership may be changing rapidly as many are divesting their portfolios of BP stock and reflected by the current low stock value.
------------------------

The well has drilled into sediments below thick salt layers and rock which formed an effective seal, trapping the oil and gas, and leading to high gas pressure, leading to the danger of blowouts.
The mantle is not involved; at this location it is much deeper.
Temperatures are high, however, also leading to high gas pressures.

Several companies have drilled test wells into these sediments below the salt layers; it is risky because if something goes wrong or there is carelessness, blowout like BP's may occur and corrective measures are experimental or poorly tested.
--------------------------------------

BP used to be called British Petroleum; as they increasingly operated all over the world, the Board decided the name should be simply BP. Of course many people still call the company 'British Petroleum'. So what? Not important.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 01:01 PM

Don T "30,000 feet is 10 Kilometres, which could possibly penetrate the very edge of the upper mantle. However this depth would be insufficient except in a tiny percentage of the worlds surface area, and in any case would be many kilometres short of the mantle proper."

That's ri-i-i-ght!

In other words, this thing is worse than being reported!

GfS