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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 13 Jun 10 - 10:50 AM ""Americans work for BP, and Americans have investment in BP for their retirement, just as millions of people around the world. BP is not being "attacked". BP is RESPONSIBLE for a disaster and is being held responsible for what they have done."" Yes Alice, BP is responsible, and accepted that responsibility long before American politicians started talking about "kicking ass". Can you explain what you find useful in the idea of whipping a horse that is already going in the direction you want, at the best pace of which it is capable. When RB started this thread I thought he was being paranoid, but there is one thing about which he is indubitably correct. Your politicians and your news media are accentuating the "British" Petroleum increasingly, and it simply cannot be passed off as accidental. Remember how the Shrub emphasised Iraq in connection with 9/11, until many Americans thought that the USA was invading Iraq because Saddam was responsible for 9/11? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 13 Jun 10 - 10:36 AM ""we often wish we had a President like that Tony Blair fellow...."" You should have said Joe. By 2005 we would have happily given him to you, and thrown in Gordon Brown free of charge, WITH GREEN STAMPS! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 13 Jun 10 - 10:27 AM ""and to answer Ebbster's questions, which is related, in a way, the EPA data was leaked, you might find more about it online, however I'd rather not divulge that, at this time."" I'll just bet you would rather not, or more accurately, rather cannot. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 13 Jun 10 - 10:19 AM ""Furthermore, the drilling is a lot deeper, than just 5000 feet below the surface of the water. It penetrates up to 30,000 feet below the ocean floor! They believe they have penetrated the earth's mantel."" Wow! GfS rewrites geology. 30,000 feet is 10 Kilometres, which could possibly penetrate the very edge of the upper mantle. However this depth would be insufficient except in a tiny percentage of the worlds surface area, and in any case would be many kilometres short of the mantle proper. I think GfS, that you would know if the mantle had been penetrated, as they would have been fighting a vocanic eruption, not a bloody oil spill. How do you propose that oil would exist in molten rock? Just gets dafter and dafter. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 13 Jun 10 - 10:06 AM ""Actually BP is not a British Company. The B does not stand for British any more, it stands for B - the name was changed from British Petroleum a few years ago. There are probably as many American investors in the company as there are British."" Actually it is 40 percent British, 39 percent American, and 21 percent unspecified others, according to info from the BBC yesterday. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 13 Jun 10 - 10:00 AM ""Well, they agreed to pay for all legitimate claims, "legitimate" being a weasel word which one can fully expect to be used to dodge out of claims that any number of observers might think are "legitimate"."" So what do you want them to do then Mousethief? Pay out for some Kansas farmer who claims the spill hs ruined his fields? Of course they'll only pay claims for damage that actually happened i.e. "legitimate claims" It's a no brainer, and it's more than US insurance companies do. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Arthur_itus Date: 13 Jun 10 - 07:50 AM Ok here is a link to 'BP oil spill: Obama comments 'not anti-British' for what it's worth. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/politics/10303619.stm |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Howard Jones Date: 13 Jun 10 - 07:23 AM Ebbie, why shouldn't I believe it? It sounds like just the sort of dumb question a TV journalist would ask. The person who wrote the letter was on holiday with his wife - I doubt he noticed or cared what channel or what programme it was on, but he noticed the comment, and a growing anti-British sentiment in the media. No one is accusing the American people of being anti-British. The criticism is of a number of politicians who appear to have been deliberately and repeatedly making the point by referring to BP as "British Petroleum" that it is a British company. Although they deny being anti-British as well, the sub-text is there. If they keep repeating it, that subliminal message will start to get across to ordinary Americans. In fairness, some of our own politicians have been making an issue of this too, which is equally unhelpful. But the issue is causing some concern here - not because we defend BP, which has handled both the event and the aftermath badly, but because of the possible damage to US-UK relations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 13 Jun 10 - 05:26 AM Coherent?..Here, let's be very plain about it. Thinking between the lines doesn't seem to be one of your leading traits! The two polarizations, that are oppressing this nation of people, happen to be, the product of propaganda, opposed by myself, and eloquently written by Fred Reed. He gets it, I get it...and so do you! At what point do you stop running into the arms of those feeding you that line of crap, that, because of some self imposed trap, you can't let go of??...and running away from the truth....WHICH YOU JUST RECOGNIZED!!!! You would, and have said, and done anything, to discredit either myself, or ANYONE, and diverting everyone's attention away. Away from someone who is, and has been calling you on your bullshit! ALL this to avoid you accepting, that the polarization, and anger in this country, on both sides, which you have chosen one, has you pitting the very VICTIMS of this fraud, against each other! How far does it have to get before your jaw drops open, as you gasp, "Oh, my God, their shooting at each other, in the streets?"..or, are you going to 'intellectualize' about it, even when you windows are rattling?? Maybe that's your goal, but I, for one oppose ANYTHING of this sort, and am doing, and will do everything I can, to disarm it, and the stupidity that brings it!...on here, in music, and in my daily life's dealings! STOP FEEDING IT!! As I've said before, and I'm sorry..I just can't remember where I first heard it, "SNAP NOW, AND AVOID THE RUSH!!" Clear and coherent enough??? ....Got too much personal and bull shit clogging your filters? Rethink....your political mantras ..and who fed you that crap!..and why! Most Sincerely, Guest from Sanity |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Arthur_itus Date: 13 Jun 10 - 03:58 AM Anybody on the in concerning Cameron Obama phone call? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company From: Richard Bridge Date: 13 Jun 10 - 03:41 AM Thanks again Don - I was getting worried that I was going to agree with some parts of something Fugitive from Sanity said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ebbie Date: 13 Jun 10 - 03:24 AM sheesh And here I was thinking that Sanity Guest had finally taken the time to be coherent. Thanks, Don. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 13 Jun 10 - 01:32 AM I didn't sign it, did I?? But it is right on! >>>>>GFS<<<<<<< |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Don Firth Date: 13 Jun 10 - 01:30 AM Credit where credit is due, GfS. That above article Copyright © 2008 Fred Reed. From http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed139.html. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 12 Jun 10 - 11:08 PM I hope it's not too long...... Common delusions notwithstanding, the United States, I submit, is not a democracy – by which is meant a system in which the will of the people prevails. Rather it is a curious mechanism artfully designed to circumvent the will of the people while appearing to be democratic. Several mechanisms accomplish this. First, we have two identical parties which, when elected, do very much the same things. Thus the election determines not policy but only the division of spoils. Nothing really changes. The Democrats will never seriously reduce military spending, nor the Republicans, entitlements. Second, the two parties determine on which questions we are allowed to vote. They simply refuse to engage the questions that matter most to many people. If you are against affirmative action, for whom do you vote? If you regard the schools as abominations? If you want to end the president's hobbyist wars? Third, there is the effect of large jurisdictions. Suppose that you lived in a very small (and independent) school district and didn't like the curriculum. You could buttonhole the head of the school board, whom you would probably know, and say, "Look, Jack, I really think…." He would listen. But suppose that you live in a suburban jurisdiction of 300,000. You as an individual mean nothing. To affect policy, you would have to form an organization, canvass for votes, solicit contributions, and place ads in newspapers. This is a fulltime job, prohibitively burdensome. The larger the jurisdiction, the harder it is to exert influence. Much policy today is set at the state level. Now you need a statewide campaign to change the curriculum. Practically speaking, it isn't practical. Fourth are impenetrable bureaucracies. A lot of policy is set by making regulations at some department or other, often federal. How do you call the Department of Education to protest a rule which is in fact a policy? The Department has thousands of telephones, few of them listed, all of which will brush you off. There is nothing the public can do to influence these goiterous, armored, unaccountable centers of power. Yes, you can write your senator, and get a letter written by computer, "I thank you for your valuable insights, and assure you that I am doing all…." Fifth is the invisible bureaucracy (which is also impenetrable). A few federal departments get at least a bit of attention from the press, chiefly State and Defense (sic). Most of the government gets no attention at all – HUD, for example. Nobody knows who the Secretary of HUD is, or what the department is doing. Similarly, the textbook publishers have some committee whose name I don't remember (See? It works) that decides what words can be used in texts, how women and Indians must be portrayed, what can be said about them, and so on. Such a group amounts to an unelected ministry of propaganda and, almost certainly, you have never heard of it. Sixth, there is the illusion of journalism. The newspapers and networks encourage us to think of them as a vast web of hard-hitting, no-holds-barred, chips-where-they-may inquisitors of government: You can run, but you can't hide. In fact federal malefactors don't have to run or hide. The press isn't really looking. Most of press coverage is only apparent. Television isn't journalism, but a service that translates into video stories found in the Washington Post and New York Times (really). Few newspapers have bureaus in Washington; the rest follow the lead of a small number of major outlets. These don't really cover things either. When I was reporting on the military, there were (if memory serves) many hundreds of reporters accredited to the Pentagon, or at least writing about the armed services. It sounds impressive: All those gimlet eyes. What invariably happened though was that some story would break – a toilet seat alleged to cost too much, or the failure of this or that. All the reporters would chase the toilet seat, fearful that their competitors might get some detail they didn't. Thus you had one story covered six hundred times. In any event the stories were often dishonest and almost always ignorant because reporters, apparently bound by some natural law, are obligate technical illiterates. This includes the reporters for the Post and the Times. Seventh, and a bit more subtle, is the lack of centers of demographic power in competition with the official government. The Catholic Church, for example, once influentially represented a large part of the population. It has been brought to heel. We are left with government by lobby – the weapons industry, big pharma, AIPAC, the teachers unions – whose representatives pay Congress to do things against the public interest. Eighth, we are ruled not by a government but by a class. Here the media are crucial. Unless you spend time outside of America, you may not realize to what extent the press is controlled. The press is largely free, yes, but it is also largely owned by a small number of corporations which, in turn, are run by people from the same pool from which are drawn high-level pols and their advisers. They are rich people who know each other and have the same interests. It is very nearly correct to say that these people are the government of the United States, and that the federal apparatus merely a useful theatrical manifestation. Finally, though it may not be deliberate, the schools produce a pitiably ignorant population that can't vote wisely. Just as trial lawyers don't want intelligent jurors, as they are harder to manipulate, so political parties don't want educated voters. The existence of a puzzled mass gawping at Oprah reduces elections to popularity contests modulated by the state of the economy. One party may win, yes, or the other. But a TV-besotted electorate doesn't meddle in matters important to its rulers. It has never heard of them. To disguise all of this, elections provide the excitement and intellectual content of a football game, without the importance. They allow a sense of Participation. In bars across the land, in high-school gyms become forums, people become heated about what they imagine to be decisions of great import: This candidate or that? It keeps them from feeling left out while denying them power. It is fraud. In a sense, the candidates do not even exist. A presidential candidate consists of two speechwriters, a makeup man, a gestures coach, ad agency, two pollsters and an interpreter of focus groups. Depending on his numbers, the handlers may suggest a more fixed stare to crank up his decisiveness quotient for male or Republican voters, or dial in a bit of compassion for a Democratic or female audience. The newspapers will report this calculated transformation. Yet it works. You can fool enough of the people enough of the time. When people sense this and decline to vote, we cluck like disturbed hens and speak of apathy. Nope. Just common sense. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Jun 10 - 06:45 PM Of course, there are ethical corporations, Q. Most of us are smart enough to know that, and we shouldn't have to explain that every time we say something. There are good corporations and there are corrupt corporations, and that has always been the case. Still, there seems to have been a downturn in corporate ethics in the last thirty years, at the same time that politicians have tended to deify corporations. I think it started with the Reagan-Thatcher economics of the 1980s, when the Conventional Wisdom dictated that business could do no wrong and government could do nothing right. As a result, those nasty government controls were relaxed, and business was allowed to do what it does best - become corrupt (I suppose the same is true for government: without control, it becomes corrupt). So, we have had one huge corporate scandal after another since the 1980s. Barack Obama is a ray of hope for many of us, but it has yet to be seen whether he can do anything to stem the corporate corruption of the last thirty years. Then again, many of us once thought that Tony Blair was a ray of hope.... -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 12 Jun 10 - 03:35 PM Small businesses here are incorporated (Canada), and the same in the States. When I retired, I wanted to work as a consultant, and the first thing I did was incorporate my company. Legally in business I became "Joe Blow" Professional Corporation under the laws of the province. All professionals working independently or employing assistants or in partnership incorporate their business. It puts the incorporated business separate from the personal effects- home and possessions, etc.- of the individual and/or associates, and is necessary for legal and tax purposes. Corporations, large or small, may or may not be good corporate citizens; many of us look on BP as a bad one but that should not be a blanket condemnation of all corporations. To incorporate in the province of Alberta, this government website gives the essentials- Government Alberta Corporations |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spil From: Stringsinger Date: 12 Jun 10 - 02:46 PM Of course there are bigots in the U.S. congress as there are in the House of Commons or House of Lords. They're everywhere. B.P. is a criminal. This implicates Tony Hayward. They've destroyed America's coastline by cutting corners and hiring incompetents. I don't think all Brits want to be associated with B.P. just as most sane American's don't. This thread is bogus. It assumes that because Americans are down on BP, they are down on Brits. Not true and insulting. Goldman Sachs or AIG are American companies and many Americans are down on them, and justifiably so. The Multinationals are the new "countries" who are calling the shots (literally and figuratively) throughout the world. They need to be "trust-busted". They have taken over both the U.S. and the U.K. and it's time for citizens to reclaim their respective countries (but please, not like Rand Paul). |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: mousethief Date: 12 Jun 10 - 01:07 PM "Our life is corporate life" This doesn't mean corporations are an unmitigated good, or that whatever they want to do is good for all of us. Multinationals are not the all-seeing, all-knowing benefactors of mankind you make out. They do a lot of terrible things in the name of profit, and the governments that they buy with their campaign donations sit idly by while they ruin people's lives and the environment. Most Americans work either for the government, or small businesses, not corporations. Real wages have declined quite a bit since 1980 in the United States, due in no small part to the practices of large corporations such as offshoring jobs, restructuring to get rid of well-paid employees, etc. Your bleary-eyed worship of corporations is ill-founded. Unless you're among the megarich. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ebbie Date: 12 Jun 10 - 12:57 PM "In today's Times newspaper there's a letter from someone just returned from New York describing how one TV station there linked the spill with a visit to the White House by Paul McCartney by asking why the President was "inviting the citizen of a country which has destroyed the planet". arrrrgghhhhhh! Do you actually believe that? Unless this letter writer came up with a TV station or show where this allegedly happened, I don't believe it for one gd moment. People are insane. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 12 Jun 10 - 12:46 PM "People against corporations"- the old nonsense appears in yet another thread. Most of us depend on corporations for our employment, our savings funds, our products, our homes- in fact for our material possessions and the income to possess them. Whether the corporations are large, like Apple, Exxon, MacDonalds- corporate value in the billions- or small like that of the immigrant who employs 10 salesmen and a few others in the business end of his furniture shop, or the successful musician, his agent, driver, etc.or the plumber shop or whatever- corporate value a few million- is immaterial, our life is corporate life. And every decade through the last 150 years more and more people are able to live a comfortable life. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Alice Date: 12 Jun 10 - 11:32 AM Americans work for BP, and Americans have investment in BP for their retirement, just as millions of people around the world. BP is not being "attacked". BP is RESPONSIBLE for a disaster and is being held responsible for what they have done. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Greg F. Date: 12 Jun 10 - 10:13 AM Corporate ethics seems to be at an all-time low, and the moderate-income and poor of the world are the victims. And yet the moderate-income and poor of the U.S. of A. (read Tea-Baggers, Republicans et. al.) want to throw out of office the people who are attempting to do something to help them and put back in power the same assholes that created the mess in the first place. and the power and trust that nations put in these global companies "nations" can't put trust or anything else in corporations- its people- like the idiots above- that do. Are Piaget's stages of development taught in schoolsany longer, I wonder?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ed T Date: 12 Jun 10 - 07:59 AM "it's not a matter of one nation against another - it's the people against the corporations" Yes...and the power and trust that nations put in these global companies, in a misguided belief that the corporate best interests are the same as the citizens best interests. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Howard Jones Date: 12 Jun 10 - 05:11 AM Joe, it shouldn't be a question of one nation against the other, but that is what the politicians and some of the media seem to trying to stoke up. In today's Times newspaper there's a letter from someone just returned from New York describing how one TV station there linked the spill with a visit to the White House by Paul McCartney by asking why the President was "inviting the citizen of a country which has destroyed the planet". US politicians want to appear to be acting tough in a situation which they don't actually have any control over. I'm not saying they shouldn't be criticising BP (although at the moment the priority should be fixing the leak and cleaning up the mess - there will be plenty of time later to argue over who is to blame), it is the way they are specifically identifying it as a British company (when it is 44% American-owned and employs twice as many Americans as Brits) which is not going down well over here. It seems from the story I quoted above that some of the US media have already fallen for this line, so it's only a matter of time before ordinary Americans start to believe it too. As for Tony Blair, you're welcome to him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Jun 10 - 04:20 AM But it's not a matter of one nation against another - it's the people against the corporations. Corporate ethics seems to be at an all-time low, and the moderate-income and poor of the world are the victims. Americans have known since the days of Dick Cheney that Halliburton is corrupt, and Americans assume that almost all oil companies are corrupt. We didn't know about that Swiss drilling company - but it seems that they're corrupt, too. But we actually like the UK, and we often wish we had a President like that Tony Blair fellow.... I'll get me coat.... -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: mousethief Date: 12 Jun 10 - 03:30 AM BP has been operating maladroitly for 10 years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Richard Bridge Date: 12 Jun 10 - 03:23 AM AoL news, APril 30. "Yet while both BP and Transocean have issued public apologies following the explosion and subsequent leak, the company that actually manufactured the BOP in place on Deepwater Horizon has remained curiously reticent about its role. Cameron International, formerly known as Cooper Cameron, is the worldwide leader in providing BOPs to offshore rigs, according to industry website RigZone. The Houston oil and gas systems company has been recognized by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers for creating the first blowout preventer of its kind, all the way back in 1922" Alice asserts above that US voices now attack Transocean as well as London based British Petroleum. There appears to be some argument whether Cooper Cameron or Halliburton produced the blowout preventer that BP just leased. While some US voices criticise Halliburton or Cameron Cooper, the vast preponderance (and, so far as I have heard to date, all US politicians) attack the two non-US-based corporations - and have done so from times well before any indications of maladroit operational decisions by BP. It still looks like xenophobia to me. By the way I am very critical of the ethos of multinational companies - but I stop short of blaming them for what they have not done. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Arthur_itus Date: 12 Jun 10 - 01:24 AM What is this article on about. Is it suggesting mis-information from the Government? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/11/eveningnews/main6573318.shtml?tag=stack Also this article, seems to suggest that the rig was not inspected regularly and that the last person to do an inspection was an apprentice Quote The last government inspection of the rig was on April 1 by Eric Neal, a government inspector who had only recently started his drilling inspection training, yet he was sent to the rig by himself to do the inspection. End of quote http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20007514-10391695.html?tag=stack |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ebbie Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:51 PM "Greg F, that was an interesting quote- makes no sense at all." Q June 11, 11:16 "I am blaming America for letting BP get itself into this situation." Arthur_itis June 11 1:34 |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:16 PM Greg F, that was an interesting quote- makes no sense at all. I don't think many Americans throw all the blame on BP, although it must be made responsible for its mistakes. BP, as operator, took shortcuts that they might not have taken if the MMS had been hard-headed and insisted on certain checks and procedures, especially since BP had been so lax as to collect fine after fine. Congresses past are largely responsible for the MMS failures; it looks like MMS will be much different in the future (closing the barn door after... and all that). BP (Too little information to comment on Transocean's responsibilities) may find it is a takeover target because of its losses because resulting from the drilling shortcuts and the massive settlements sure to come. One NY paper suggested that the Chinese might bid for BP, but I don't think they would buy into trouble. They have bought into Canadian and other companies and Sinopec is a major petroleum corporation on the world scene. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Greg F. Date: 11 Jun 10 - 09:25 PM I am blaming America for letting BP get itself into this situation. Just for the record: Not only is this statement idiotic, its assinine. And no, I've no intention of apoligizing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Jun 10 - 09:13 PM Source, or forget it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 Jun 10 - 09:05 PM Q: "New info from where, reading your tarot cards?" let's not get snotty, you can perhaps find it online, maybe not, but I'm not, at this time, going to burn my source. ..and Joe, is absolutely correct. Multinational Corporations are unto themselves, as little countries. They know no borders, as we relate to them...and seem to avoid regulation. More than money, power is what they're after. They have their own alliances, some within themselves. they are at odds with political systems, that they haven't been able to fully corrupt. The ones they DO corrupt legislate laws in their favor, not the people who the 'representatives' are supposed to be representing...Oh, and that includes 'The Fed'..a private corporation! ....and by the way, should I find, through my sources, that my info, was in error, in part, or all, I WILL amend it, or retract....but as for now, it stands! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Jun 10 - 08:41 PM I think we should feel sorry for poor little Switzerland, home of Transocean now that it left the Caiman Islands. The big, bad Americans are bullying the poor Swiss yodelers, simply because Transocean is a Swiss corporation. Well, actually, no. Americans are very nervous about multinational corporations - companies so big and widespread that they don't have to bother answering to any government authority. Don't give me this bullshit that criticism of BP is prejudice against Britain. BP is beyond Britain - and it's as much a threat to the UK, as it is to the US. It has too much power, and too little ethics. Oh, and we've been picking on Exxon ever since they spilled a little oil in Alaska..... Are they British? Nope - they're another descendant of John D. Rockefeller. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Jun 10 - 08:04 PM Sanity, I think you are about ready for restraints. New info from where, reading your tarot cards? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Alice Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:58 PM Richard wrote "going for BP and ignoring the US companies involved" You are misinformed. The American news has been covering Transocean, the Minerals Management Service that was the agency that did not regulate as they should, decades of poor regulation, Dick Cheney and his closed door meetings with energy companies during the Bush years... and much more. You are seeing something in the British news that is distorting what is really happening here. Dare I suggest that someone has an interest in trying to stir up emotions by creating the impression in Britain of your country being attacked? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:42 PM Q: "Guest from Sanity, the daily flow seems to be about 40-50 thousand barrels according to experts from various universities. Of course by the time relief wells are drilled, many millions will be in the Gulf- the Oil Sea." You mean, various universities that receive massive government funds??? The figures and info I received was from a reliable source... not only that, no sooner than I left here, went somewhere in the car, ABC radio, just reported that the spill had gotten further into the Gulf, and was a lot larger than they originally thought....and to answer Ebbster's questions, which is related, in a way, the EPA data was leaked, you might find more about it online, however I'd rather not divulge that, at this time. HOWEVER, this thing ain't going away too soon, I'm sure more will come out, as time goes on. I am not, have not, nor will not, pass misinformation onto you guys, to the best of my knowledge, (though I might piss a few of you off, especially those who can't distinguish between satire and hatred)..nonetheless, musicians/poets etc. are a peculiar people, whose gift, when NOT laying dormant, wallowing in the past, are NOT people I would ever intentionally bullshit!! When used properly, and when 'dialed-in', you have at your disposal, the means of changing lives, policies, and hearts. Giving you bad input intentionally, will NOT happen...from me......though, once again, you may or may not agree. As an example, look at the criticism, I posted during the elections, and primaries...that stuff is being made manifest, everyday that we live! Same with the corruption..same with the phony manipulation of the economy, for the sake of control!...all coming true. Musicians should be ahead of the curve, not parroting behind the curve, as set forth by the propaganda and infotainment industry! i wasn't going to even post on this thread, but being as I got the new info, i thought I'd pass it. Do with it as you'd like, but to the best of my knowledge, it is accurate!! There are some things to consider about how this was(or wasn't) handled, but there have been some massive mistakes made in judgment, and now it has been turned into a 'blame game'. This is sheer lunacy!! Mama Earth is bleeding, we did it, and rather than fix it, the evil clown(s) are trying to use it for their own arrogant purposes. The arguments we hear, are the ones put forth, and repeated by whomever, has something to gain, one way or another. Please, do NOT fall into it. Okay, better go now, before I go into 'sermon mode'! Regards, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Richard Bridge Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:22 PM Look - long before there was any information about BP misconduct, US commentators were going for BP and ignoring the US companies involved. Were they psychic, or prejudiced? It isn't hard to figure out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Rapparee Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:52 PM In an ad in 1999, BP told the US that they were "Bringing Oil To American Shores." |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:28 PM Joe, you are close on the stockholders who hold beneficial shares. 44% UK, 39%US, 21% rest of world; BP figures on line at bp.com. UK institutions hold 33% and American institutions 25%. The rest are large individual holders. 777 shareholders have over a million shares each. There are some 19 million common shares; today the average price about noon was $34, about half of what it was before the gusher. BP's drilling carelessness is costing everybody, even if their pensions, investments and savings are with institutions which hold no BP shares. Guest from Sanity, the daily flow seems to be about 40-50 thousand barrels according to experts from various universities. Of course by the time relief wells are drilled, many millions will be in the Gulf- the Oil Sea. ------------------------- The last compensation figure released by BP (June 6) is $84 million to some 14,000 applicants, or roughly $6000 per claim. Less than peanuts. www.oilvoice.com June 6, 2010. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Bill D Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:02 PM One-more-time...as Q posted a bit ago: "Quote from BP website- "With our global headquarters in London and operations across the country, the UK is the hub of the entire BP business. ...and I doubt I am the only one who is getting tired of the blanket condemnations of the US such as Arthur itus just dropped! This is just stupid: "... going into other countries and killing thousands of people without remorse, ..." As if we 'enjoyed' war and misery and conflict... Should I make a list of UK involvements in the world for a few hundred years and generalize about them? Why does emotion have to negate reason? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ebbie Date: 11 Jun 10 - 05:23 PM Wow. When Mousethief apologizes to Artur, all hell breaks loose. Gracious thou art not, Art. GfS, for a change your conclusions are coherent and focused but I would like some clarification: 1) Where did you get the idea that we are treating this as a Democrat/Republican matter? 2) Where did you get the idea that we take this calamity less seriously than you do? 3) Please link us to some source(s) where we can read for ourselves what is being said out there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Arthur_itus Date: 11 Jun 10 - 05:10 PM You yanks just get on with it, but stop blaming everybody else but yourselves. You are great at going into other countries and killing thousands of people without remorse, but you ain't so clever when something happens on your own soil. No wonder you are disliked so much. I just hope we in Britain stop sucking up to your incessant demands to tell other countries what to do by voilence by means of military intervention. I will leave you to blame everybody else but yourselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Donuel Date: 11 Jun 10 - 04:34 PM I accept your apology Arthur and in so doing you may continue to practice free speech as you like. In fact I will go as far as accepting everyone's apology without reservations. Afterall if you buy and use petroleum products you are part of the problem. ------------------------------------------------ UK is miffed and is decrying the poor penniless pensioneers in London who depend upon their dividend to keep body and soul together. If the US tries to take their money away to throw it at some fisherman in the Gulf, there will be repurcussions! Harumph harumph. what what |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Jun 10 - 04:34 PM Maybe I'm old, but I think of BP as AMOCO, formerly Standard Oil of Indiana, formerly John D. Rockefeller. The human face I attach to BP is John D. Rockefeller. As I said above, the ownership of BP is almost equally U.S. and U.K., with a small percentage of stockholders from other countries. So, yeah, it takes a real idiot to think that American criticism of BP is an insult to the United Kingdom. Haven't you people over there ever heard of a "multinational corporation"? In other words, the entire premise of this thread is silly. -Joe Offer (supported by mutual funds, and I think some have BP shares - should I be insulted?)- |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Arthur_itus Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:59 PM OK I accept your apology Mousethief. Thankyou. We potentially have a world disaster and we all need to pull together, not blame everybody else. Sometimes in life, a major disaster occurs and we sometimes have to forget our arguments and hatred's towards one another and stop passing the buck. I have no idea how this problem will get solved, but I do believe Obama, should be saying to BP "OK this is a big mess, but let's move forward together for the sake of humanity. If and when we solve this disaster we will see where we go from there." I believe the world needs to get involved in this and help in whatever we can. Whether that is technology, advice, donations of money etc etc. So I say to Obama, get off your arse and invite the world to help in whatever way they can, before things get any worse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:23 PM To turn this into a partisan party politics, is absolute absurd nonsense!! I've just received some figures, in regards to the spill, that are staggering!!!...and WAY worse than either side(?) is letting the people know about!! Obama will exploit this, and use this to push his cap and trade. STUPID!..The oil industry and its investors, are trying to minimize how the 'reported damage' is for their financial and public image purposes.. STUPID! The media(read: infotainment), depending on whose interests are backing them, are misleading people ON BOTH SIDES on a massive scale!! This is potentially, is a major historic event that threatens huge portions of mankind, both health, and economic. We are facing a lot different type of problem, than we may have ever faced before!..including mass evacuations, because of other compounds, being released..besides just oil! Furthermore, the drilling is a lot deeper, than just 5000 feet below the surface of the water. It penetrates up to 30,000 feet below the ocean floor! They believe they have penetrated the earth's mantel. The figures are not the mere figures that is being 'reported' on the infotainment propaganda services(so-called 'news'),..but are being estimated at 4 million barrels a day! As far as 'capping' the pipe: Oil drilling experts and engineers, have determined that 1500 psi is 'acceptable' levels for safe drilling pressures. What they have found here, and not being reported, is the pressures are 20,000, and up to 70,000 psi! Unfathomable by by industry standards, and by most of our minds! NOAA, (National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration), has found multiple plumes and fissures, with gushers within a 20 mile radius of the 'leak'. It is being reported by an unconfirmed source, (reportedly from leaked sources), that the material, Hydrogen sulfide, methylene chloride, benzene, and vanadium. Safe levels: Hydrogen Sulfide, 5-10 PPB (parts per billion)--detected: 1200 PPB....methylene chloride, safe: 61 PPB---detected 3400 PPB,...Benzene, Safe: 0-4 PPB---detected: 3000 PPB. Also amounts of Vanadium, a toxic metal, in undetermined large amounts. There is discussion of using a nuclear device to seal the leak, but to use it, they would have to take months to 'angle drill', put in place, and because of the hardness of the ocean floor and or mantel there, they can't determine(as of yet), what amount of power, or strength....in essence, they have to make an educated(?) guess!...nor have they ascertained, if it may cause more damage to the ocean floor/mantel, and actually make it WORSE! that the EPA has found other hazardous materials being released in staggering proportions.. To politicize this event, is sheer foolishness!! Should the hurricane season, get nasty, because it is upon us(gee, is that a Democratic or Republican hurricane??), the implications on the damage and toll on human life, and after effects could be in the millions(of lives, not primarily dollars..but both), in this country alone! Should the toxic compound hit the gulf stream, the European continent as well, this is a lot more of a 'bummer(?!)' than something to merely intellectualize about. There's more bits of stuff, but I thought that should give you some REAL food for thought......(pretty heavy snack, eh?) P.S. Side note: Sea gulls and fireflies, have been spotted in the southwestern area of Colorado!???!. This is a first! Whether or not that is related, is conjecture, at this point, but rather unusual! Yikes!...Now I'm going to hit the 'Submit Message' button....Here goes.........! Have a Pleasant Day, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ebbie Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:16 PM "Ordinary Americans may not identify BP as a British company." snippet "Since BP is still viewed here as a leading British company," So, what is the difference between Americans viewing BP as a British company and British citizens viewing BP as a British company? Me thinks mumble, mumble, mumble... |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:15 PM Quote from BP website- "With our global headquarters in London and operations across the country, the UK is the hub of the entire BP business." http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=24@contentId=2000737. ----------------------------------------------- From links at that site: "The BP group operates across six continents, and our products and services are aailable in more than 100 countries." "London is where BP's corporate headquarters are located, and the UK is therefore a centre for trading, legal, finance and other mainstreram business functions. The UK is also home to three of BP's major global research and technology groups." North America "The BP group is the largest oil and gas producer and one of the largest gasoline retailers in the United States. We are the largest non-US company on the New York Stock Exchange. Our BP Alternative Energy business has an operations centre in Houston, and we also have solar manufacturing facilities in the USA." http://www.bp.com/extendedsectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=40&contentId=7061813 -------------- Excerpts from BP press releases are found through the same sites. Statements about payments to states are made there, but some press releases say no monies have actually been received. |
