BS: Muslims again . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Brian May
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 01:20 PM

Well Clint, I can't argue with that, it about covers it for me.

All the cuddly socialist, apologetics and people who wish to appease them are just regarded with contempt, as weak.

They'd just as soon blow you away too. 'We' are just stupid and naive for feeding, clothing and housing them, there is no suggestion of them ever acknowledging that in their culture - there is also no compromise.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Musket
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 10:55 AM

Bridge,

The trick is not to think of targets in the first place.

Rather disturbing post actually. Anyone or anything else you want to add to their list from your shitlist? I note you said it has to be suitable, so if I could suggest a few from mine?

And a few from my mate's. And his brother has a list I could nod sagely at too.

Personally, I always found discussion and agreeing to disagree possibly via an adjudicator gives far better mutual outcomes than blowing each other up. A bit like the arbitration system known as Sharia...

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 09:39 AM

No Greg.
They have admitted planning to plant bombs in public places.
That makes their interest in high profile possible targets, like Parliament, look sinister.

Can you justify your claim that Muslims are persecuted by the law in UK?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 09:33 AM

Yeah, "walking while Muslim" in the U.K. seems to be the equivalent od "driving while Black" in the U.S of A.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 08:57 AM

Mohammed Chowdhury, 21, and .. Shah Rahman, 28, were followed by undercover detectives..., observing Big Ben, Westminster Abbey, the London Eye and the Palace of Westminster.

Well, that's pretty suspicious activity, isn't it?

Planning bombs for the Stock Exchange is rightly something to bring to trial, but, really, looking at the tourist stuff?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: GUEST,redhorse at work
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 08:40 AM

"so-called" British National

Born in UK, legally British Citizen, wrong colour

I suspect "Clint Keller" (Clint? really?) is an adherent of the Party that dare not speak its name (on Mudcat)

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 07:27 AM

Well, albeit I disapprove of violence, if I had to think of suitable targets, the Stock Exchange and Boris "Bloody Stupid" Johnson would be high on my list.

But what, pray, is a "so-called" British National? Either one is or one isn't, that's the relevant law. Whence "so-called"?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 04:00 AM

"esteemed". "cherished"? ~~ well, indeed, they were not among the most beautiful builings in the world, & I am glad they didn't target the Chrysler, which is IMO one of such. But in all my visits to the city 1970s-90s, NY-ers spoke with uniform pride and proprietoriality of the Twin Towers, which had replaced the Empire State, it seemed to me, as the City's symbol; and was unfortunately sited in a position vulnerable to the sort of attack which occurred.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 06:16 PM

They weren't so attractive as they were an excellent landmark for navigating around the city--you could see them from so many places. I really miss them because it's harder to get oriented to where you are. I actually have to carry a small compass now when I'm in the city.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 05:31 PM

Not to question that the criminal attack on 9/11 wasn't terrible, but describing the Twin Towers as the "most cherished and esteemed buildings" in the US? Come on now - it was an ugly office complex only notable for being tall.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Brian May
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 04:51 PM

Quote

The Catholic church has murdered upward of ten million over the years.

Unquote

Oh, how true.

Guest, 999 - thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 04:34 PM

The Catholic church has murdered upward of ten million over the years.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 03:55 PM

Still no figures, tho, Greg. You name some atrocities. I looked mine up & found a number for you ~~ so dismiss it, Mr Knowbetterthantherestofus. But provide some figures for your own nominated atrocities. I looked mine up; you do the same & tell me ~ & I will believe you, whatever your source. Wiki simply refreshed my memory, did not provide the figures for the first time. Much good your smartarse dismissal will do. I'm sure the publshers of wiki are trembling in their boots at your 'dismissal'...

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 03:43 PM

I don't dispute Blog-O-Paedia, I dismiss it.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 03:19 PM

Do you dispute Wiki's figure of 3000?
I thought it was just under 3000 but more have died of dust since.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 02:57 PM

...but having your precious "liberal" lifestyle removed for ever....

You wouldn't be one of them Sharia Law phobics, wouldja Pharoah?

and see how they take it.

They'd probably take it badly, M - the same way as my telling them that the attack on the twin towers was caused, in large part, by US policies pursued in various regions of the world for the last three or four decades & that it's those chickens coming home to roost.

But that doesn't make it any less true.

give a figure. Mine comes from wikipedia

Blog-O-Paedia? well, nuff said. You are aware, are you not, that most secondary and college educators will not accept Blog-O-Paedia as a source?

When you've got a minute, start with Oklahoma City, abortion clinic bombings & murders, Jim Crow & work back?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 02:12 PM

GregF ~~ nobody said whataboutery wasn't fact: the two are not mutually incompatible or exclusive. But whataboutery doesn't remove the danger. Try telling the contents of your silly last post to the relicts and loved-ones and survivors of the 3,000 killed on 9/11 and see how they take it. How many, in round numbers, have your militant Christians killed, which you claim 'over the years' to have be a much greater number but avoided citing any precise, or even approx, figures?

Eh? Come on. Mouth where typing-finger is, please, & give a figure. Mine comes from wikipedia. I don't believe yours comes from anywhere but your urgency to make an inaccurate and emotive point.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 01:51 PM

Oh for fuck sake!.....The "danger", is not being "killed" by an Islamic fundamentalist, but having your precious "liberal" lifestyle removed for ever.

Personally I say bring it on, "liberalism" is even more of a danger to our longterm survival than all the hordes of Islam!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 01:18 PM

One's chances of being injured or killed by a "militant Islamist" are considerably less than one's chances of being struck by lightening and approach those of being abducted by Space Aliens, despite the alarmist bullshit being thrown about by hysterics.

I'm a helluva lot more scared by the domestic U.S. "militant Christian{sic]" terrorists - who have over the years killed many times the number who died on 11 Sept.

And that ain't whataboutery - its fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 12:48 PM

It is not the 'any religious group in particular' that Ake refers to. It is that small but active and vociferous sect within one of them, the Militant Islamist, which he rightly indicates as the danger. How many billion Muslims are there ~~ about 1.5 according to wiki. And how many of those did it take to destroy the Twin Towers? Four.

The argument that other religions have their dissident sects also, some of malevolent intent, is no sort of argument but a bit of desperate 'whataboutery'.

Aren't you scared, Stringsinger? If not you are a fool.

Do the maths and try not to be so insufferably self-righteous about your bloody Constitution. We don't have a written Constitution; and we didn't have one of our most cherished and esteemed buildings reduced to a heap of rubble with the loss of thousands of lives in a matter of minutes either..

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 12:28 PM

Ake says: "Dont be fooled, it is indeed a battle to the death.
Western style "democracy" is a real and present threat to Islam."

This is no more true than the threat of fundamentalist Christianity which claims that it has various extremism but not inclusive of all parts of it. The same must be said of Judaism, Islam or any other religion.

Theology is no substitute for democracy regardless as to where it comes from. But democracy is no threat to any people who want to practice a religion under the American Constitution's First Amendment. Propaganda directed at any religious group in particular is immediately suspect by any honest American.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: gnu
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 04:42 PM

PI warning. The following is intended as humour. If ya can't take a joke....

The Cherry here on gnu's computer.

I'll tell ya what the problem is with them there guys there eh? They gotta wear them there turbans and ya can't wear a helment with a turban. If these guys could wear a helmet and we could teach em ta skate then they could get some rinks gowan and Bob's yer uncle. Nuthin like a good game a checkin inta tha boards an fightin in tha corners ta settle down yer, yer, yer... animosity... yeah... that's it... yer animosity. Hell, they might even learn ta like curling... AND, they can even wear their turbans at the club, although I think curling is fer pussies who don't have a stick... if ya know what I mean eh?

AND, I could give them a few pointers on how ta dress. COLOUR? They haven't heard of COLOUR? What is that all about?

(Canuck joke. Take it the wrong way if you want. If you do...)

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 04:30 PM

Yes, 999 ~~ but remember those line of Yeats about the best lacking all conviction and the worst being full of passionate intensity.

Sad but true, I fear.

Brian just wants 100,000,000 to follow suit. As I [sort of] said a few posts above, In His Dreams. It will need 100,000,000 to get anywhere, mind. But it only took 4 to knock the Twin Towers down.

Do the maths!

I say all this with no satisfaction, believe me. I just see things as they are. And am glad I am nearly 80 and not likely to see where all this leads to; which I don't envision as anywhere very nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 04:23 PM

Brian, I see only respect in your reasons for this thread.

There are more good people in the world than bad, and that I firmly believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Brian May
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 03:56 PM

Guest above was me, computer dumped my cookie again.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 03:55 PM

Oh boy . . .

No, no intent other than exactly what I said it was. I was irritated quite frankly when I was called a bigot simply for interpreting what I saw and heard - what I would call evidence and drawing reasoned conclusions from that process.

The hope that my observation would/could be taken at face value . . . yes perhaps I was naive as there's very little evidence of that amongst a vocal few.

However, the man in question stands like an island in a tempestuous sea, the tempest stirred by extremists of all ilks, religious, secular and media alike.

We just need another 100 million to follow suit and object to how their belief system has been hijacked.

Naive or not, hand grenade or not - you must draw your own conclusions (you will anyway).

I feel better for acknowledging the guy, having abhorred what his religion seemed to sanction without protest. It's good to see a little balance emerging, for however long.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 03:32 PM

It is indeed a wonderful village Guest999, and all the more so because no-one views my husband with prejudice, racism, or worries that he might be a secret terrorist. In his turn, I'm proud he's shown that a black Muslim can be as helpful, kind, gentle, sincere and spiritual, as anyone else, from any culture or faith. If only this could be the case on a larger scale, people's fears would be allayed.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 01:20 PM

And what exactly are "muslim faces"?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 12:58 PM

SRS....I think you will find that Islamists and Evangelical Christians have more in common than you appear to think.

You misunderstood my statement, Ake. I'm not surprised, because you have so many preconceptions about Americans.

I said And just as the undifferentiated sea of muslim faces seems to scare many Western Europe and New World types, many in the muslim world find the undifferentiated face of American modern evangelical christianity just as frightening.

I didn't say anything about what they had in common or not, I said (in essence) that cultures aren't able to look at the Other and differentiate the players. This means that I understand that not all christians and not all muslims are alike each other in their respective groups. But I do think that the zealots in each group are very similar to other zealots with their dogma as they proscribe for the rest of the world.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 12:05 PM

""It is hard to believe that you do not just enjoy lobbing a metaphorical hand grenade into the forum Brian.""

And here comes the man who can be guaranteed to pull the pin, eh Keith?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 11:29 AM

I think all people are born 'good', and given the chance to be so, will.

I hope no one trots out two hundred examples in this world filled with seven billion people, else you will become two hundred and one.

Sounds like a wonderful village, Eliza.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 10:26 AM

It would be a great pleasure Keith!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 10:09 AM

Thanks again Eliza for more of your story.
I would love to meet you both one day.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 10:03 AM

Yesterday was our church's Harvest Festival. My husband wanted to attend and wore his lovely national costume. Everyone knows he's a Muslim, and they were thrilled to see him. They treated him like a celebrity. (as do all the folk in our village) I was reading the lesson, and the Rector was delighted to have Ibrahima carry the huge basket of fruit up to the altar during the service. He had a go at singing the hymns, and we both prayed fervently for world peace, tolerance and sharing good things. He's invited to the Harvest Supper next week, and the Men's Breakfast too. He tidies and weeds the churchyard with the other men on a regular basis. No-one has the least objection, and he's very happy to be there.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 08:25 AM

It is hard to believe that you do not just enjoy lobbing a metaphorical hand grenade into the forum Brian.

You have posted the name of one brave moderate, on a day in UK when yet another suicide bomb cell has been charged, and a convicted accomplice of the 21/7 attempted bombing is allowed to stay in this country that he hates because his home country might mistreat him.

Does your man give us hope for peace or is he just pissing in the wind?
(Sorry, you said you liked metaphor.)

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 08:05 AM

Oh, Brian. Don't get me wrong. I didn't think you were being disingenuous in your praise of the man; but in your hope that there wouldn't be people on this forum who would insist on making something of it...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Brian May
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 07:48 AM

No I wasn't being disingenuous.

I was merely attempting to be fair and show respect and support to a very brave man, who undoubtedly is a target for extremists as he's had the temerity to publicly disagree with their Jihad.

That kind of bravery and commitment transcends race, religion or creed for me.

. . . not bad for a bigot what?

Anyway, I shall leave the players still on the field to finish the game in whatever way floats their boat. Don't you just love metaphors?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 04:29 AM

Take your points well, Ian. But is there perhaps a touch of 'whataboutery' in your observations?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Musket
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 04:15 AM

I'm afraid Akenaton? Happy now?

I'm afraid that The USA is getting more fundamental every day and that Dumbfuckistan may get the keys to The White House.

That will present two problems;

1. In the short term, an intolerant "Jesus is behind me" religious outlook on world affairs can only fan any flames elsewhere.

2. The USA was the world leader for the twentieth century. The next hundred years will see, as is happening, an emergence of other economies who will use their money and power to inflict their views on others. China and India being two examples. I don't think God's own senators will adjust to being marginalised too easily.

The problem isn't Islam. The problem is politicians using faith as a tool, regardless of how you view your imaginary friend.

In the meantime, I read two articles this morning on this subject. One was about increasing religious rather than secular decisions in certain USA states. The other was about women slowly getting more rights in Saudi Arabia. Now.. let's face it, Saudi Arabia is a joke and a disgusting one at that. But isn't it strange that whilst the Jesus botherers are trying to force western countries to be more religious, many Muslim states are wanting western style democracy and are overturning governments and introducing social change to allow that?

Just makes Afghanistan and Pakistan look out on a limb, which is why I am bemused as to why many western states are trying to join them in their quest for theological interpretations of law.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 04:00 AM

The bit about Capitalism/ "democracy", was as a special favour to SRS, who is an American and has not yet discovered the link. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 03:59 AM

No, Ake, I was responding to Greg F. Not only Christians are bigoted against Islam.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 03:44 AM

Yes, I see all that, Ake; and, as we have established before, share some of your concerns in the matter. I just couldn't see whence all that Capitalism/Democracy &c shtick had obtruded itself.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 03:37 AM

Well M.... I was responding to Richard and SRS who appeared to imply that I had some antipathy to the Islamic Religion.....an "Islamiphobe" would probably be the stock label.

Brian was making the point(quite rightly), that not all Muslims are Jihadists, but there is no doubt that a large number of Muslims in the Middle East, North Africa,and many parts of Europe, see "Western Values" as corrupt and exploitative.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 03:05 AM

Ake ~~ Not sure what points you are making, or in what way you take them as relevant to the topic of this present thread.

Puzzled.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 03:04 AM

SRS....I think you will find that Islamists and Evangelical Christians have more in common than you appear to think.

The leaders of Islam are not frightened of Evangelical Christianity, but the social system which has been spawned by "liberal democracy"

The breakdown of family life, the exploitation of women and children as sex objects, the worship of money as the one true God!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 02:54 AM

I do not confuse Capitalism with democracy.
"Democracy" as we in the West know it, is used as a political tool to keep us as maliable little consumers. To give the impression of freedom, when in fact we are slaves of the system from cradle to grave.

Imagine if we were to revolt over what is being done to us economically and socially at the present time......do you not realise that WE would be shot in our thousands just like in any other repressive regime?

As I have said before, in the early nineteen hundreds the Capitalist System was in danger from a Socialist uprising and I could take you to the exact spots in Glasgow where the tanks were positioned to fire on the people.
Capitalism may have failed in the West, but the people who run it will never "walk away".

Did you not see the working class hero Mr Obama eat his own words on Palistinian Statehood.....medical services.....taxation.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: gnu
Date: 25 Sep 11 - 07:19 PM

Well said, SRS.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Sep 11 - 06:38 PM

Amen, SRS!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Sep 11 - 05:38 PM

Don't confuse Democracy with Capitalism. And just as the undifferentiated sea of muslim faces seems to scare many Western Europe and New World types, many in the muslim world find the undifferentiated face of American modern evangelical christianity just as frightening. We invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, after all.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims again . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Sep 11 - 05:25 PM

Come now, Brian. With all respect, you know well how such threads as you have started are likely ~~ nay, certain ~~ to develop. You are being disingenuous, I greatly fear...