Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 06:38 PM

Well,since I don't do movies much, forgive me if I have only heard of 3 of those people. Sorry, the Deaf Lady does not do theaters. Maybe Aragorn should be Sam Elliott with the proper Highland accent? LOL!

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Mbo
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 06:20 PM

Sorcha, SDShad has listed the principle actors portraying the characters further up in this thread. I am VERY happy with ther choices, except maybe Aragorn. But Hollywood has to make him a beefcake hero instead of a rough-looking "almost ugly" 80-year-old man, as Tolkien puts it. And yeah I know descendants of the Men of Westernesse lived longer than humans, but geez, anyone under 40 won't do in my book. But insiders say he's really good, so I'm looking forward to it...

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 05:54 PM

Yeah, on second thought, you guys are right about Hobbit accents, should be rural. I was just thinking about Eliza Doolittle and her delightfully "puckish" character. Remember, tho we Stoopid Americans can't usually distinguish a Somerset from an Exxex. That doesn't mean they can't use appropriate accents that UK'ers would recognize and apprceiate. Here's one for fun: I have no idea who is cast in this movie, but who would WE cast as whom? Sean Connery for Gandalf? (Sir Olivier, but not possible)Jane Seymour as Galadriel?

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Rana who SHOULD be working
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 05:06 PM

Hi Beau,

I saw Gormenghast on the Space Channel in Canada - they had the rights and showed it just after the BBC did in Britain. One major distraction was the number of commercials - WGBH Boston are on the credits but on e-mailing them they didn't know anything about it. BBC America premiered it last month. I asked them about video release and they referred me to their online shop for info - I hope it comes out over here eventually on video. It was released in Britain on video and DVD this past spring, however, the TV systems are different - just will have to wait (or use the fast forward, but I always overshoot).

Regards Rana

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: BeauDangles
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 04:52 PM

Rana,

I have heard many wonderful things about the bbc version of Gormenghast. The one wonderful thing I have not heard about it is: Appearing now on a pbs channel near you. I can't find it anywhere, and I am royally pissed! Any plans to release it on video?

As for LotR, I am very excited about the prospects of this movie. So far my favorite non-print version of it is the BBC radio play which I quite enjoyed. The prformances were outstanding (including Ian Holm as frodo), and the special effects were incredible, largely becausethey were in my own head. But of the visual versions of the work, I think this will hands down be the best. I, too, am dismayed about some of the artistic changes that have been made, even though I can see the reasons for them. I am just happy that they did not pick Leo DiCaprio for any role in it. He would have even tarnished the role of Lotho Sackville-Baggins!

Beau

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Hollowfox
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 03:23 PM

Well. Lepus et. al., I didn't say I'd have chosen to change the vocabulary. Not that anybody on the 'Cat is up for killing the messenger..it warms my heart to see feelings run high about the treatment of a book. And there's that puckish side of me that imagines if the language hadn't been altered. All those boys in their homemade costumes, with the Griffindor lion on the bodice, and pleated skirts...

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Rana who SHOULD be working
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 03:22 PM

Sorcha,

Treading on dangerous ground when you try and place the accents to the characters (what accents do Russians see Orcs as having?) - though your choices could fit! I agree with Malcolm re. Hobbits and rural, I'd have placed them more with a Somerset accent, however.

As for a great book with loads of imagery moving to screen - 'tis always a risk. I never thought Gormenghast could be done (actually I always prefered this to LOTR). The BBC did a marvellous job on this (so I thought) and so indeed it can be achieved. From the clips on the web page it seems LOTR might also achieve this but we'll all have to wait and see.

Actually this all raises the comparison of "imagination" vs. "realism". I will always prefer Dr. Who (with its hokey sets) to the likes of Star Trek (all generations) which seemed to have more money to spend. The story lines in the former seemed so much more imaginative. But then again that's another thread maybe on another site.

Rana

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 11:53 AM

I didn't know about the new Arwen angle, but I can understand why the producers wanted it, IMHO. My daughter is just the age I was when I became totally addicted and enchanted by LOTR- but being the girl of the 00's that she is, she's mad at the lack of strong women. Eowyn just isn't enough! Nor Galadriel, for that matter!

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 08:58 PM

I'm inclined to agree with you, Sorcha, though I think the hobbit accent ought to be rural (perhaps old-style Surrey or Sussex) rather than Cockney.  , Tolkien grew up in the Midlands, so he was probably thinking of something nearer to Cheshire (before it got posh.)  Does anybody remember the BBC radio adaptation of The Hobbit from the '60s?  I certainly had quarrels with some of the characterisation, but the music for the songs was absolutely spot-on: a much more earthy late-medieval flavour than Donald Swann's pieces.  Thanks, by the way, to Mbo for that other link; I can't get the preview on the "official" site to run, despite having the plug-ins...

I shall have to see the film, but, like the previous attempt (and, probably, the new X-Men film) I'm rather expecting to be impressed by the effects and disappointed by the interpretation.  Ah well; we shall see.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:32 PM

Right ON, Lepus!! Yer after me 'art, 'ere. Course, I started reading British stuff when I was about 8........

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:30 PM

Hollowfox, I don't think there should be ANY translation from one English dialect to another. If the kids are too lazy to pick up a dictionary and look up a couple of words (as I enjoyed doing when I read "unusual" English words as a boy), I don't think they deserve to enjoy the book, anyways. It only makes them lazy readers. Same with the LotR movie, with the whole Arwen thing, and with the use of American accents (which, as you've all read, they're not going to do now, but which they originally HAD planned to use). It's dumbing it down so us dumb Americans don't have to try with anything, or to think too hard. Still very depressing. For me, at least. If those books are still around when my niece gets to whatever age group those are written for, I'll be sure to order her books from England. A few years after I buy her a couple really good dictionaries... :)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:25 PM

I'm mostly on yer side Sorcha!

{~`

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:23 PM

Being a bad girl, I did not read ALL of the above......but, IMHO, anybody who cannot deal with a UK accent, or any other does not need to see the movie. I have just hated ALL visual representations of JRRT. Especially the cartoon version that came out 20 odd years ago. I have my own idea of what all these people look like, and I prefer to keep it, thank you very much. (orcs should have a Russian accent, trolls a Scandinavian, Gandalf a very upper class British, hobbits are Cockney, elves French, maybe the WoodElves get Irish, Ents are Slavic,,,,,,,ah, never mind.)

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 05:36 PM

the link is supposed to be http://www.fandom.com/ringbearer/

What the hell is up with this HTML sutff?????

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 05:35 PM

Repost... sorry... I missed one little close quote!!! This place really needs an edit or preview button for dough heads like me!!! Is it possible to have a MOD delete that post of mine above??

Take 2!

Check out Ringbearer.com for the best site for LOTR movie stuff... I've been following it with much dread for alomst 2 years now I think?? But we folk over that the Ringbearer MB can answer most of yer questions, like about accents and 'Digial Shrinkage' effects and such...

No 'hobbits swimming in cold water' jokes please, we've done them to death some time ago...

Near as I remember, the accent thing was aiming for nutrality rather than having american actors trying to affect english/or where-ever accents... which I think is a great move! IF the actors have a good voice, let them speak in it, whatever their accent... that avoids Kevin Cosner Robin Hood type fiascos!

Personal Opinion: I'm not sold on the idea of a live action LOtR movie... Petyer Jackson is not the best director for a project like this.. most of his movies so far have been on the low end of fair to medium... And well, CGI tech isn't really good enough yet to be up to the challenge... (CGI stands for 'Crappy Graphics I'nit' BTW) The casting is for the most part very solid... Sir Ian, coming from Magneto in X-Men is gonna be the PERECT Gandlaf... I've decided to class myself as a 'hopeful pessimist' with regards these movies...

On the JRR music front... I can't believe anyone likes that Donald Swan Album... I'm in the process of MP3ing some of it up for posting on the Ringbearer site so the other fans there can see just how terrible a sence of music JRR actually had... He liked it, and put his 'stamp of apporval' on the album, but I'll be bugger'd if I can figure out why... It's terrible... I've worked very hard to block out the memory of that stuff on the off chance I can ever forget enough of LOTR to enjoy reading it agin...

And well, I'm ticked cause Tom Bombadil, my personal favorite character, isn't gonna be in the move at all... But I can also understand why he's been cut...

"You can't always get what you waaa-a-annt
But it ya try sometimes, Ya get what ya nee-eed!"

{~`

Did it work???

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 05:09 PM

I forget -- is that the part where the Ring is traded for those X-ray glasses that allow you to see through women's clothing?

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Mbo
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 05:05 PM

Yes, and Aragorn & Arwen's story is what I am going through now, but I think it should be as the book has it. Not having Arwen follow the company unawares through Moria (somehow avoid Gollum & the Balrog) to join them later to help win Helm's Deep.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 04:51 PM

But Mbo, the new story line is a love interest!!!!Isn't that, you know, sort of kind of like your thing since you went all gooey on us?

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 04:46 PM

Check out But it ya try sometimes, Ya get what ya nee-eed!"

{~`

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 04:37 PM

Having read LOTR at least as often as Jon, and having participated thru high school and beyond in a fantasy of our own devising among friends involving what we thought of as "Middle Earth: Next Generation" LONG before Star Trek thought of that: I am nervously awaiting the film which I will go to see as soon as possible.
On the Harry Potter issue, my husband was one of the original proofreaders (!) of the first 3 HP books to be "Americanized". Of course, when the first one came across his desk he had no idea what was to become of it- he remarked that he had an interesting story to proof and he was pleased that he didn't have to Americanize it as much as many other stories that come.
(He also hoped he'd be able to find a copy somewhere- he thought the kids might enjoy it!)

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Hollowfox
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 03:35 PM

Lepus, some translation was deemed necessary, but not much. If not "translated", the USA crowd would wonder why Mrs. Weasley sent Harry a hand-knitted jumper every year for a Christmas gift.//I, too, am cautiously optimistic about LOTR. It couldn't be worse than the Bakshi version. My other cautious optimism is for Terry Gilliam's possible movie version of Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett's book "Good Omens". If he does it, he'll do it right; I can't imagine anybody else coming close. Lovers of fantasy and/or humour, if you haven't read this, you should. Right Now.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 01:08 PM

MBO, they switched back to English accents on the movies? That would be cool. I quit reading about that movie last year, when they announced that they'd be using American accents to make it easier for Americans to understand.

Off the subject, really, but not really sure it's worth it's own thread: I don't know if this is news, but the popular Harry Potter kid's books were reportedly translated into 'American' by Scholastic. I find this depressing. Blah, back to work...

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Jon W.
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 12:38 PM

Between 1968 (Jr. High) and 1982 (end of college) I read the trilogy more times than I remember or care to admit. I was tremendously disappointed by Ralph Bakshi's failed effort at animation in the 70's. I've seen the internet preview of the new version, and it looks like it will be a great success - at least if they are reasonably faithful to the storyline from the book. I for one will be going to these movies and taking my children. I'm just disappointed that they didn't ask me to be the technical storyline advisor :-)

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Mbo
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 12:15 PM

It's going to be done with camera & computer effects, no to mention oversized things to make them appear small, like incorporating the record-holding biggest bull on earth into the movie to force the normal sized humans to look small. I've seen how it works, it's all very ingenious!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 12:03 PM

Well I was stretching the truth a little………………..It was his banjo playing that was not up to much.

Were you not aware that I was an Ent?

The casting sounds pretty good but how are they going to overcome the height differences between the humans and the hobbit/dwarves etc? Are they going to use Alan Ladd's orange box?

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: SDShad
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 10:55 AM

I'm cautiously optimistic. Peter Jackson seems to know what he's doing, and has some genuine respect for the material. The cast is very international, and yes, Frodo and Sam are played by American actors (Elijah Wood and Sean Astin), the hobbits can't all have American accents, surely, as Sir Ian Holm is playing Bilbo and I think both Merry and Pippin are played by Brits.

Lessee, who else? Gandalf-Ian McKellan; Saruman-Christopher Lee; Gimli-John Rhys-Davies!; Galadriel-Cate Blanchett; Grima Wormtongue-Brad Dourif!; Denethor-rumored to be Donald Sutherland; Boromir-Sean Bean!; The Mouth of Sauron-Bruce Spence, aka Gyro Captain from Mad Max 2.

Chris

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Mbo
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 08:56 AM

BTW Willie, it's a trilogy, 3 movies, one for each volume, The Fellowship of The Rings, The Two Towers, and The Return of The King. The best site for the movies is TheOneRing. It's easy to navigate and has all the history & info about the 3 movies.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Mbo
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 08:37 AM

I'm looking forward to the movies very much. I've been following the production for over 2 years now...back when it was just a concept. Some things I'm not to happy about, particularly the Arwen storyline, but other than that, I'm pretty well pleased. As far as accents are concerned, the Hobbits in the movie WILL have British accents, so there is no need to worry. Tolkien & Swann's songs are excellent. Also, the NPR production of the Hobbit did a great job with music for "Far Over The Misty Mountains." Very Renaissance-like. As for myself, I have put a few Tolkien poems to music. Shambles, as far as I know, Tolkien didn't play guitar. But I know he had a great interest in learning the banjo.

--Mbo (Tolkien scholar)

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Willie-O
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 08:36 AM

Hey Shambles, when you say you "dimly remember Tolkien gigging in the 1930's"...how old are you anyway?

I checked out the website. It sure is gimmicky and slow-loading, has some nice graphics--the "evolution" of the hobbit hole--and is messy and confusing to navigate, and lacks hard info.

Looks like another special effects extravaganza, with lots of spectacular New Zealand-as Middle-Earth scenery.

Its a wait-and-see thing. But I don't think they can compress the whole story into one feature-length movie without losing a lot of the book's appeal. (And if they do, it's going to be one hard-to-follow movie!)

Will Bombadil

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: sledge
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:35 AM

Bend over Mr Tolkien, Hollwood has a little surprise for you.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:31 AM

But I bet the orcs have English accents...

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:30 AM

Donald Swann (of Flanders and Swann) put some tunes to a bunch of Tolkien's songs. Looking that up in a search engine I found this, which lists that among a bunch of other things people have done with Tolkien.

So far as I know Donald Swann's are the only versions that Tolkien heard and liked.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 03:50 AM

I was really looking forward to the LotR movies, until I found out that the hobbits are going to have American accents... Bleh.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 03:40 AM

Lord of the Rings

Subject: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 03:38 AM

Is anyone looking forward to seeing, or dreading to see, the movie that is currently being made of The Lord of the Rings? Or have any useful news or gossip on this project?

There are also many songs in his writings, what are your thoughts about JRR Tolkien, as a songwriter?

I dimly seem to remember him 'gigging' around the 1930's Oxford folk clubs and his guitar playing wasn't up to much…….