BS: lower case posts with no punctuation

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: RichM
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 03:36 AM

periods are important
semicolons too
and leaving out your commas
will never never do
and leaving out a capital
is a capital offence

but in these times when toys and furniture
and many other things
are bought unassembled
and you must put them together

I offer the do it yourself
punctuation kit

see below and add where necessary, or by choice

! ? : ; ' . , - >br<

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 02:13 AM

I could use an explanatory footnote to the first line of your poem, tex.
"You kow" Now, this might me a typo for "You know", or it might me directed at kat/katlaughing, which would be linguistically quite clever, but very insulting and in dreadfully poor taste, or it might be directed at me, in which case I will refrain from taking umbrage on the grounds that I have been called much worse in my time.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: texastoolman
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 01:59 AM

thank you ebbie
i'm glad you understand my intent
it means somethng to me coming from you
you have real heart
tex

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 01:49 AM

I like your poetry, tex. :) Truthfully.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Terry K
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 01:37 AM

...just so long as you did your best, tex

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: texastoolman
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 01:31 AM

you kow
i'm just sorry as all get out
if the way i choose to write
offended any of ya'lls deep sensibilities
but that's how i choose to do it
and if you don't like it
then just disregard anything i might have to say
and please go on to the next message
it took me awhile to figure out how to do thisw
without running everything together
perhaps some of the other folks
who write in don't know how it works
my god some of you folks
can sure be condescinding
as far as i know
i still have a right to express myself
anyway i please
if i'm wrong in this
just say so
and i won't bother you again
tex

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Terry K
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 01:11 AM

It's a manners thing.

Speak as you would like to be spoken to, write as you would wish to be written to. Isn't it all about having respect for your reader/listener? Surely that is what good manners are all about, so if we all do our best - including those with disabilities - that's all we can ask.

Cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 01:02 AM

I don't know, Jon, a good question and I suppose it might be.

I just think we have to be a little forgiving, after all we are all human *beans* and all make mistakes.**BG**

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 12:40 AM

"What of our English as a second language members?"

Good question kat but perhaps that one could be twisted the other way... I really don't know but is it possible that these people are the most affected by the use of all lowercase and lack a lack of punctuation when it comes to trying to read a post?

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: mg
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 12:25 AM

I think we have too little to worry about if we can worry about all caps, no caps, whatever. If you don't like the format, just skip the post. If you don't care for what the person usually has to say, just skip the post. There are enough rules that have to be imposed on people for social order, safety, etc., to worry about their typing style. This is recreation for heavens' sake. And if you would prefer not to get carpal tunnel or some other RSD, be easy on the space bar and don't capitalize. Or just put everything in all caps. mg

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 12:09 AM

I forgot to say, it may not be a matter of them taking the time. It may be the best they can do. And, really, this isn't English class. What of our English as a second language members?

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 12:03 AM

Jaysus, George, betcha take no prisoners, too, huh?**BG**

How do you tell the difference when someone has tried or not? Some people, like InOBU have real disorders (which he has explained) which 'cause problems with spelling and punctuation; some, like Susan's friend, are new to keyboards of any kind and need a helping hand.

Sorry, but I'd be willing to bet you've missed out on some special postings with that kind of rigid policy.

kat who uses lower case "k" because once in a while, the person who first signed on as "Kat" shows up and I do not wish to cause her any trouble...

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From:
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 11:51 PM

I take the point that if the person refuses to at least spell and punctuate properly (or try) then they don't deserve the time it takes to try to figure out what they are trying to say. Sorry, but like them, I do NOT have the time to waste. IF they don't want to take that amount of time, they obviously don't respect the reader enough.

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 11:42 PM

Murray,

No prob, man! (Was that "Bart" enough for you?)**BG** He does say "kew-ull" doesn't he? The spelling always reminds me of Kew Gardens which has always fascinated me, the Gardens that is, not that the spelling brings it up, oh, well....you know what I mean!

Anyway, I was just commenting, didn't take anything personally and this is just for you:

katwhohasabigsmileonherfacetomatchMurray'semoticon!

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 11:27 PM

Kat, I had Bart Simpson in mind rather than you when i wrote "kewl". That is how he pronounces it, to my ear at least.

Regarding lack of capitals, well to say it bothers me would be to overstate the issue. It does however smack to me something of the poseur, and pretentiousness of any sort always makes my hackles rise.

And please, do not alter your trademark signatures on my account! *BG*

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 11:09 PM

Like Spaw, I try to use as much emoticons :>\ and **BG**, etc. as possible in my postings to give some sort of idea of how I might sound were I speaking to you in person.

I like to play around with the spelling of words. I started using "kewl" because I like the looks of it. I started using "phoaks" because it contains the word "oak" which, to me, symbolises the longevity and steadfastness of "folk" music and thus, folk musicians, i.e. you all.

A long time ago, I would sometimes sign off with something run together to express my feelings, such as "katlaughingforrealthistime." It has always been in fun and nobody's ever really complained about it; some have even emulated it, perhaps too the extreme?

I don't mind no CAPS and I have a friend who refuses to capitalise his name or the word "I" because he does see it as a classist issue. I respect his choice.

I don't mind typos or missed punctuation, either. I admire people's words and the fact that they have made the effort to communicate.

It does bother me to try to read something made up of a lot of letter abbreviations. Sometimes I skip those.

On the whole, I've learned that instant electronic communication such as we have here is a bit more relaxed about conventions. It took me awhile to accept and understand that. Now, I see it as a lot of fun, esp. as I have to be so careful when writing for a real gig.

BTW, 53, no problem, no editors who are here AS editors.:-)

luvyakat laughing and leaving spaces just for those who may get irritated

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 11:08 PM

I would hope that this is not in fact an issue of classism, Susan.

My feeling is that the vast majority of posts written like this are written by educated people (alright,young educated people, let's be ageist instead of classist) who know full well how to write properly, but who choose not to, for reasons best known to themselves.

That is their prerogative, just as it is mine to take issue with, and to poke gentle fun at, their stance.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 11:00 PM

Thanks Catspaw.

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 10:42 PM

our friend ed just got a used computer and caught internet fever but he worked with his hands all his life and never as a writer and every email message he has sent me has looked just like this except he always signs them love ed

i do love ed he got us to play together when we first picked up our instruments a few years ago and just look at the result

and i would never dream of telling him how to write

except if he wrote in all caps

he does write that way when he writes with a pencil so thank god he likes lowercase for computer is what i say

he blesses us all and i don't judge him

he is the happiest person i know excpot maybe for his grandaughter my folkbaby and just seeing his name in my email makes me smile and if he posted here i would smile even more

and if anyone here was mean to him because he does not write like most if us do it would make me cry for a long long time and i might go away it would be too mean i couldn't bear to have brought him to a place where he would be looked down on

its an issue of classism don't you think

if we don't like to read things written this way we don't have to you know

susan

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 09:46 PM

Sure Hawk.......and we'll assign Dr. Johnny Fever to your case.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 09:45 PM

Oops, Spaw obviously buggered back while I was feverishly typing those two lines.

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 09:38 PM

I know I'm completely screwed! Thank God there is someone who understands. Can I get a room with a Venus Flytrap in it?

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 09:33 PM

Hawk, you're completely screwed. Check in at the NYCFTTS and we can have you partially functional in only a few months...........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 09:29 PM

ive just been all around orillia and i cant find one single post that has any punctuation some dirty words here and there but no punctuation none THERE WAS PLENTY OF UPPER CASE HOWEVER MOSTLY IN FACT hosers generally cannot manage lower case too well

LH

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 09:19 PM

Actually, what I meant to say was, "Kiss my fockin' ass Murray" or something along those lines..............

(.......and sometimes things depend on who you are and how well you're known and your relationship to the person.....)

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 09:12 PM

Spaw appears to have buggered off somewhere, so...
*BG* = Big Grin

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 09:10 PM

Spaw meant to say "most people COULDN'T care less about typos, etc ".

Murray the mindreader

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 09:05 PM

Effort IS the thing Cobble! Most people could care less about occasional typos or spelling errors or bad grammar and syntax. The questions is, are you doing your best to be understood or just taking the easy way out? Communication is the name of the game!!!

BG = Big Grin as opposed to BSEG.....(:<))...thanks john!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 08:56 PM

Reading and writing have been around much longer than the Internet. If there were something superior about writing without grammar, punctuation, accurate spelling, and capitalization, the professional writers and editors of the world would have discovered that by now, and we would be seeing whole books, magazines, and newspapers being written that way.

"archy and mehitabel" is a good book, and I know at least one poem by e e cummings that I like a lot, but I don't see the world rushing to imitate them, so I don't plan to imitate them either.

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Cobble
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 08:47 PM

I would think that people just making the effort would be enough, not every one is an editor or such. Cobble.

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 08:42 PM

Catspaw-What does BG mean?
It is very good to see you back here.john

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: paddymac
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 08:37 PM

Hasty apologies to all. I foolishly thought the above mesage would appear here pretty much as it did on my screen. It appears that this system's way of dealing with the problem is to treat it as one unbreakable word and "widen" the post. Sorry for the inconvenience, but, maybe it makes the point better than my words did.

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: paddymac
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 08:31 PM

Aw, gee, shucks & golly willikers. Foolish me. ithoughtthisthreadwasgoingtobeallaboutemulatingjamesjoycebutasitypethislineimwonderingwhatwillhappenwhenthemachinetriestoreadthisallasonewordanddropitalldowntothenextline.

I thought this thread was going to be all about emulating James Joyce, but as I type this sentence I'm wondering what will happen when the machine tries to read this as all one word and drop it all down to the next line. Well, now I know. It screws up the copy/paste process and won't allow me to start a new paragraph without ending the previous one with a punctuation mark of some kind. Normal punctuation seems much easier, not to mention the benefit (well, in most cases) of a more intelligible post.

Having said all that, I do recall that when I first began using e-mails there was a pseudo-convention of not using caps, which I presume was somebody's idea of efficiency. But even there, punctuation was still required.

No doubt styles of writing will (or have) emerge(d) in cyber worlds which may not conform to the "standard" for whatever language is being used, but such evolutionary false-starts which impede rather than enhance communication won't likely get far.

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Louie Roy
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 08:25 PM

I never learned to type until I was 75 and I know I make a lot of mistakes with my punctuation marks,but being a hunt and pecker I do the best I can.If I or someone else misses a period,question mark,etc,etc,etc mark it doesn't excite me ,but I'm sure if one of you who are so well versed on spelling and punctuation should happen to have a daughter who misses three periods in a row I'm sure you will become very excited.My question though is this who in the Hell are you to Judge?Do you have a Halo over your head or couldn't they find one big enough? Louie Roy

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 08:22 PM

I think dg DOES use some nowadays Joe. At least his stuff IS readable, often though because the ol' fart is pretty "short, sweet(?), and to the point."

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 08:12 PM

There's a very well-known guy with the initials DG who always posts in lower-case one-liners with no punctuation...and what he says is always worth reading. DG has something to do with the DT [grin]. His name is green-something-or-other....
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 08:03 PM

Especially in discussion forums such as we use here, it is easy to read more or less into the words that are written. We have had long discussions about this before and using the **grin** and **BG** and the other icons (:<)) can have very beneficial effect in making your words understood in the manner you mean them. Inflection is very difficult to transmit as Bill so well points out so using less than standard grammatical tricks sich as the ellipsis..............well..........it just makes sense doesn't it?(:<))

Like many others, I try to type in the same manner I speak and to give the reader asense of the voice pattern and it's implied attitude.....friendly, angry, humorful, sarcastic, or combinations of all gets to be a challenge. Sometimes I am misunderstood, but I doubt if I have as many problems with that as others do and as the most prolific poster in the joint, I think my percentage of understanding vs. lack thereof is pretty good.

All lower case of all of anything doesn't help me to understand a poster as there are too many ways to tkae individual words, let alone sentences and paragraphs! But if it makes you happy then go with it and I'll do my best to keep up and guess at your meaning. Many times though, like Arkie, I just skip them.

Sorry.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 07:38 PM

yep, John, and I see improvement in your posts everyday. It is clear that you are making the effort!

(I took a sort of perverse pride in not taking typing class when I was in 7th & 8th grade, and I never regretted it until 5 years ago when I needed to see the letters appear on the screen. Now I am 62, and VERY slowly teaching myself touch typing from a free program)

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 07:27 PM

I agree with Bill D, I am still new to the internet and not very good at typing(it takes me 10 minutes to just to write my name!), and in my job I never type (I am a delivery driver), But now I do try to post my messages properly.john

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 07:19 PM

I am a slowish, two-finger typist, and it takes ME a long time to get some of my posts spelled reasonably and looking readable. I also embellish my typing with ellipsis...., with *grins*, and with capitals when I wish to make a SERIOUS point...etc.

I do this to make my postings sound as much like 'me' talking as possible in this medium. You may disagree with my thoughts, but at least you'll have some idea what they are!

I do realize that some people have different degrees of education and abilities, and I don't fret about small details, but some people are just lazy and make no real attempt to make their posts clear. (Yuhknowhaddimean?)

It's simply a matter of attitude.

(and I am reminded of The 1st law of hitch-hiking .. "Look like who you want to pick you up")

if u type like this and dont punctiate or spell good, u may not get much attention because some of us just cant force oruselves to read runon sentences with no concern for what u want to say being phrased in any way that is easy to understand without stopping and looking at the words very slowly for along time which we dont always have.....if u see my point.......

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 06:57 PM

Oops! Egg on my face! I didn't see Deckman's second post.

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 06:54 PM

Of course you're right, McGrath of Harlow. I don't know what I could have been thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 06:42 PM

Naah - surely that was Mehitabel?

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Banjer
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 06:42 PM

I try to make sure all my posts are correctly spelled and grammaticaly correct to the best of my ability. I went to school in an era when English teachers would accept nothing less than good handwriting (which I always had a problem with) and correct spelling. All assignment must be in ink!! Unlike the math teacher who would accept nothing in ink. All math assignments must be in pencil! It seems in todays schools the tehachers are just so grateful to get anything turned in that nothing matters, ink, pencil, grammar, spelling, who cares? At least the kid turned something in! What a difference 30 years can make!

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Deckman
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 06:38 PM

... and, as Archie says ... "toujour gay, toujour gay, toujour gay!" CHEERS! Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Deckman
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 06:33 PM

I well remember my first lecture from darling Ellen, in London. It was during the "Walt Robertson" thread, about six months ago. She and I, and many others, were e-mailing frequantly. She explained (told?) me that she NEVER uses capitals when e-mailing, as it frees her ... and this from a grand and professional writer. Being new to e-mailing, I assumed that this was what I was supposed to do. I tried it and I totally failed. I just couldn't bring myself to do this grevious wrong. I know, I know, I'm old fashioned, and probilbly a lousy speller, but I just didn't feel 'right' about it. So, I now sleep a little better. If attempting proper punctuation bothers you, Oh well. I guess I'll NEVER be considered "trendy." CHEERS and GOOD THOUGHTS Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 06:30 PM

"The poet e.e.cummings did it too. I don't know if he was a cockroach as well."

(*grin*) Nah... he was just pretentious.

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 06:28 PM

IMHO, discourtesy is alsways worth taking issue with. Making a "fuss" well perhaps that would be a bit OTT.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 06:23 PM

I always rather assume that posts in lower case are written by coackroaches. As in "archie and mehitabel" by Dom Marquis, where archie, the reincarnated journalist, who came back as a cockroach (presumably because he had been a good journalist and deserved promotion) used to type by diving at the keys. But he couldn't manage the shift key, which was stiffer.

Mind, with computer keyboards, that wouldn't apply would it? The poet e.e.cummings did it too. I don't know if he was a cockroach as well.

Since it makes it harder to read, I'd say it counts as being discourteous, unless you have similar problems to archie, as some people do who aren't cockroaches. Running the words together is doubly discourteous, with the same proviso. Still, it's not important enough to make a fuss about, and to do so could even encourage some people to faff around like this.

Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 06:17 PM

I usually skip the posts in which the writer does not bother to seperate words or follow some basic writing conventions. I don't figure I've missed much.