BS: I heard nothing of this?!?

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Gervase
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 09:35 AM

Your argument might carry greater weight if you didn't rely on a website endorsing the BNP to back it up.
No-one denies that racism exists. What is at issue in the duscission that has evolved here would seem to be:
1) Is it 'hushed up' and
2) How can it be eradicated.
I think the answer to (1) is a clear No. The case you mention has been aired on network TV news in the UK, and not just in Scotland. One of the reasons the case has not been aired at length is because the trial of two of those involved is still underway, and the UK contempt laws quite rightly prohibit detailed discussion and background until the case is finished.
The answer to (2) is more difficult, but will almost certainly not be helped by the malicious meddling of the white supremacist movement and their attempts to inflame the situation.
I stand by my first comment - this is an attempt at trolling.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: GUEST,James Bradburn
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 08:14 AM

No indication that this was a racist murder. 0ner of the purpetrators have been convicted of race murder.

re-read my last post, if you think i am a racist
James

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Chris Green
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 07:38 AM

Regarding the original post, the murder of a white kid by Asian kids is obviously utterly repellent. And yes, there's no getting away from the fact that racial tensions do exist in many parts of Britain, which is a growing problem that needs to be addressed. But anyone who seriously thinks that the BNP hold any sort of solution to this problem needs their head read.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 07:32 AM

Boab is 100% correct.

Racism occurs when communities fail to integrate.

But how can integration be achieved when the two are so different in culture and aspirations?

Just another symptom of our "democratic" capitalist system.

Im afraid if we dont find another way to live which involves respect for our brothers sisters and fellow creatures, we are all heading for an Orwellian nightmare...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 07:05 AM

No further news from Mr Bradburn?

No handshake yet?

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Boab
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 07:10 PM

I will; not comment on the motives of the initiator of the thread, or on the BNP SPIN. [They may well be coming from the same source]
   I will say this, though; there is racism in my Country, Scotland. And I think that much covering up is being done. I know this from personal experience, as it is sadly evident in one branch of my family. I would suggest, though, that it is confined to a certain type of individual. You will very often find that "religious" bigotry and racism emanate from an identical source. A quick glance at the sickening behaviour at recent "old firm" games will give proof of that. Both traits were being displayed from the same moronic crapheads on the terracing. Nevertheless, while bigots are almost 100% racist besides, racism does exist in many people who aren't necessarily religious bigots. These twisted mental aberrations are by no means displayed by whits caucasians alone. Both occur in all shades of colour, and in all religions. The religious bigotry is a product of pure ignorance [and the weakness of the "our-god-alone"-besotted mind]. Racism comes from failure to integrate, which in turn makes the lack of the other requisite almost impossible to attain--education. I wish the powers-that-be had a solution . Like many another, I couldn't begin to suggest an easy way. Sad.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 07:03 PM

I don't know, folks. I wish things were as clear cut as some people make out. Agreed, no indication that the crime was a racist one. Yet obviously there are those out there that will latch on to the events, and interpret them to fit their own racist message. Thus, racism exists, even if this crime was not driven by racist motives.

To simply say "it's not an issue" is not good enough. Neither is it a solution to try and address one side of the problem (as in "educating the British to understand Muslim cultures"). I am looking at events in the Netherlands, a country I love (I lived there for 7 years) and that I admired for its tolerance. Yet even they have got it wrong, clearly, as the recent murder of a film maker and threats against two politicians prove.

I have no answer, just my own attitude to offer. But I am worried that we are slipping down some path to racist hell, despite our best intentions, driven by a few individuals perhaps, but unable to find effective and acceptable ways to stop them.

And no - this would never be enough to make me vote BNP. I don't think they have the answer to anything. Just more hatred.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 07:00 PM

Go on then jOhn, what colour are they...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 06:58 PM

I'm not a racialist, a lot of my freinds are coloureds.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 06:57 PM

:D - I'm just off to bed, R. Certainly time for me to shut up! But Mr B (Bradbury or Bradburn - No Difference), if I trust my instincts, is just a wind up merchant. When we are still here discussing folk music he will still be here trying to figure out how to get white people to hate black people. Hopefuly, in this forum, he will never suceed. Unfortunatley in others he already has:-(

Peace and love (old hippy jargon...)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 06:44 PM

Oh, I always knew what you meant, Dave. See above. I still don't think you're right. I think James (my apologies for calling you Bradbury, Mr Bradburn!) is making a valid point, I just think he's doing it badly. And now I'm starting to sound patronising, so it's a good time to shut up!

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 06:40 PM

I hate to say this James, but I love other cultures, and have many black and asian friends may be true, but it's a really piss-poor way to open an argument! It should be obvious why.

And racism, as with any other -ism, doesn't mean that you consider someone better, it means that you treat them differently. I'm sexist - I treat women differently from the way I treat men. It doesn't mean I treat them worse, just differently.

I'm afraid that I am starting to drift towards DaveTG's point of view. Like it or not, you're starting to sound like a party political broadcast of something right of centre (not necessarily as far right as BNP)!

Whilst I'd agree that there is no such thing as positive discrimination (you always discriminate against someone...), it is something that is difficult to express without sounding like a BNP spokeperson, & you're not doing a good job of not!

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 06:31 PM

See what I mean Raedwulf. Facist dogma at its best :-(

I would never, ever say I told you so. It is so difficult for anyone who does not live this tripe on a daily basis to recognise it for what it is. Please realise that I am speaking from experience.

So, where is the offer of meeting us, James?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 06:14 PM

i think people have lost the plot with the word "racist."

I am not racist. Racist means you believe one race is superior over another.

I find no races superior over others. I love other cultures, and have many black and asian friends. The majority are great people. for example, our cities Sikh community laid a wreath at the Rememberence Day Service.

i dont like the way that racism has gone full circle, and now whites are being discriminated against as "positive discrimination." No discrimination is positive.
for example, it was proposed that black police should automatically enter at Seargent level, and job application forms need to know your ethnic background. If myself and one of my asian friends applied to join the police/ fire-service it is more likely that my friend would get the job. this i know is the truth, as one of friends used to do the interviews for the police.

Why cant the police force just be the police force assosiation. Why do we have to have, black police assosiation, ethinc police assosiation, that i think just leads to more seperation between different groups. Cant we all just be british, and get along. Not constantly have to learn about respecting other cultures at school or college. It only annoys asian children, and highlights again, the differences.
Why cant a job interview just not mention colour or ethnic background, and just recruit on a persons merits, not to reflect society.

why arent other cultures forced to respect our values and heritage. For example, Muslim Awareness Week, we have to listen to at school. The Muslim Council sponsored festival is aimed at "increasing community respect and appreciation of Muslims."
Read that again. This is the summary of the purpose of the Awareness festival. The arrogance of that statement is overwhelming! The Awareness Week is clearly not designed to encourage Muslims to appreciate the value of the Christian and secular aspects of British and European society. It is not about encouraging Muslims to respect the traditions and values of the long – established folk communities of the British Isles from the island of Lewis to the Cornish village of Listowel. It is not about tolerance of non-Islamic faiths. It is all about "increasing community respect and appreciation of Muslims".

all this multicultural learning is, in my oppinion, creating the problems, and making people angry. We study racism most weeks in school, in mot subjects. it is allways a one way street. We get told about Stephen Lawrence, often, and racism even gets into maths and sciences.
Just forget the Citizenship classes at school. (they arent there to teach us how to be upstanding good citizens, with good morals and pride) and let us get along as British, whatever colour we happen to be.

James Bradburn

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 05:27 PM

No, you'd enjoy it!!!

R

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 04:56 PM

I'm willing to cut James a certain amount of slack, why ain't you?

OK Raedwulf - I am (You bas%^&d! - I hate you for being so reasonable:p ) As I said - James, show yerself and I will shake your hand, believe that you have a valid POV and sit down and discuss it with you. I don't think I'll ever believe that stories like the one that started this are anything but rabble rousing diatribe but I will believe that James is not the author - Just mistakenly caught up in it.

But I do consider myself told off.

Any chance you could send Matron round with a blanket bath and enima...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 04:54 PM

And no, you didn't upset me, not much does.
The point I was making on that thread, was while folk might not agree with a legitamate business activity, they have the right to peaceful protest, but as soon as they stop been peaceful, ie commit any criminal offence, they should be dealt with severley, using the full weight of the law.

This obviously applies to Pro and Anti, ie recently there was a case of Pro Foxhunting lobby dumping dead animals, and obstructing the highway etc in London, totally unneccasery to make their point.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 04:48 PM

Would that be the "Stop slaughtering innocent animals, and smoking" remarks?
Whilst I am an ex slaughterman, [worked in 3 abbatoirs and a meat cutting plant], i no longer slaughter, I am now a delivery driver for an indian take away, however i do still smoke.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 04:36 PM

John ...White folks are like hens teeth in Govan...Well except for Rab C Nesbit and Mary Doll ...Ake

Hope you wern't upset over my remarks on the Animal rights thread .

We cant agree all the time

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 04:26 PM

"Trawled the streets looking for a white person"
as most [over 90 percent?] of the UK population is white, the can't have needed much trawling!

"we still hear about Stephen Lawrence all the time"
Bullshit, I listen to natinal radio, watch the tv news, and buy 2 newspapers a day, can't rember wehn stephen larence was mentioned in any of the media.
Do a check on Google News, and check for yourself

If your trying to present an argument, do so using facts, not made up crap anf histeria.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 04:10 PM

DaveTG - Yeah it probably was a compliment, which you're doing your best not to deserve! :p

I may be an aggressive, opinionated & argumentative git (Ha! Like you're not! ;-) Alright, maybe not aggressive, in your case... ), I don't believe I've ever been accused of prejudice. I'm willing to cut James a certain amount of slack, why ain't you?

I have bitter experience of how online correspondence can be, unwittingly & unintentionally, misinterpreted. I'm willing to cut James a certain amount of slack, why ain't you?

I'll kill 'im when 'e shows 'e deserves it. 'E 'asn't so far. His last post seemed more knee jerk, true, but he's hardly BNP/the-British-Rumsfeld yet! You laid in on first go, which was not justified. You may be right & James' intentions may not be wholly benign (you may also be wrong, remember!). Nevertheless, it is a subject that bears rational discussion, & that is not what you were promoting!

B.Ign has said it again, in 03:33 & 03:43. Whatever you perceive as the intentions of the original poster... hijack the thread! Let's have a rational discussion! IMHO, the alleged Anti-Nazi League are as insufferable & intolerant as those they claim to combat. Which would you like to be classified as? Neither? Ah! Thought not! So discuss, rather than simply dis-!!

Consider yerself told off! ;-)

R

P.S. In case yers 'asn't h'identified the deliberately lahsy H'english, Eas' Lunnern. Yep, hefnic majori... *cough* minorities, met 'em all, got mates amongst 'em, never gave a flying fuck for skin colour, but I can recognise tribal human characteristics when I see 'em, & skin colour don't enter into it!

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 04:06 PM

Sorry R   You were correct about SCots writers ...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 04:04 PM

RAEDWULF..The pakistani gangs are exclusivly asian, and are from roughly the same area where the boy was abducted.

I am not trying to stir against asians, but am interested on hewaring views on how this tension can be eased, given that one side

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:53 PM

Ake - No, *not* definitely racist. I think you've missed the point. Kriss Donald was picked on because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. At this point, there seems no definitive evidence as to whether he was picked on purely because he was white, or because he was white *in the wrong place*.

I admit, it's a very fine distinction, but racism, as a rule is not territorial. Gang rivalry almost invariably is. From the sum total of the limited evidence available through the Cat, I would say that Kriss Donald was a gang killing, not a racial one.

He wasn't picked on because he was white. They could have picked virtually anyone from anywhere. They appear to have specifically cruised the area of a (white) rival gang. They could have have picked a number of white areas. What they chose was the area of the gang that had earlier offended them. Colour/race was, seemingly, beside the point.

The gangs may be loosely organised along race lines, but primarily they are clans. Groups of linked individuals, regardless of blood tie/prejudice.

I loathe the way the PC press automatically scream "Racist!!!" any time it's white vs. black. That doesn't mean I'll leap onto a potential black vs white scenario & look for the opposite. The ONLY clear cut thing about the Donald case so far seems to gang.

Not race.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:51 PM

"If you mean, by discuss it, talk about why us poor white folks can get stabbed, murdered and raped in our beds while them evil pakis and niggers can get away with it I'm out of here..."


As far as i can see, it's only by discussing the matter openly we can remove the ignorance that leads to such attitudes.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:44 PM

I don't think anyone is questioning that at all. Just the motives of the post:-(

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:43 PM

The act is abhorrent regardless of the motives... if it was racially motivated, it does not make it any 'worse' than if it was gang related, and vice versa... it was a truly evil and inexcusable attack.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:40 PM

And Dave...."No prejudice"...Just try speaking your mind on this forum on homosexuality or race relations and see what happens..

   "the monstrous regiment descends"....on your head...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:40 PM

If you mean, by discuss it, talk about why us poor white folks can get stabbed, murdered and raped in our beds while them evil pakis and niggers can get away with it I'm out of here...

I think I know your posts a bit better though, BI:-) Trouble is that people do 'fall for this bullshit'. If one person out of the millions ( ;-) ) reading the cat fall for it then the racists have won:-(

Easiest thing would be for me just to ignore it but I'm afraid it is a bit like a scab that I can't resist picking.

Let us just join together in sanctimonious condemnation of all racist acts:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:35 PM

Abit of a problem here for the PCs.
The Pakistani youths had been attacked in a pub previously , but not by the 15yr old Scot.
As far as I am aware he had no gangland affiliations.

It was a ramdom abduction and murder in broad daylight possibly as revenge, but definitly Racist....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:33 PM

Regardless of the intentions of the initial post, there's no good reason why we can't discuss the matter at hand without descending into neo-nazi propaganda. Even if it does make an appearance, i doubt anyone here is going to be stupid enough to fall for such bullshit...even poor folks like me...

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:26 PM

Raedwulf - thanks for the compliment:-) Sorry if this came across as 'predjudiced crap' but I was simply treating like with like. 'James's' post is not about gentle discussion and expandining the mind. It is about getting people to believe that black people are treated better than white people. As such it is racist drivel posted with no thought other than to turn people against those of another race.

I do not know where you are from but I am in a mixed race inner city area where I see this type of nonsense every day of the week. In the pubs I visit, the shops I by my food and, I am ashamed to admit, occasionaly in the folk club where I sing. Racist thugs do not all shave their heads and wear nazi armbands. The worst are those who wear suits and can spin a lovely argument. These are the ones that the lower eschelons believe in and get their information from. These are the ones who incite the violence.

I can guarantee that James (or Josh) is one of these. If he is not then I challenge him to do one simple thing. Prove who he is. If he can do that I will admit he is not as bad as I thought but simply going on an ill thought path that will still lead to the same conclusion - Racism.

Wherever he (or she) is he will be near another Mudcatter. Make yourself known, James. Shake the hand of that other 'catter. Join the big happy community where there is no predjudice!

What are the chances?

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:11 PM

Now Davetnova's take sounds like closer to the truth. Not so clean-cut & headline grabbing as the original report would have you believe. Race-, perhaps, but gang- related more than anything, which seemed likely from the start. Trouble is, it's easier to scream "RACE!" at the start, than to dig & get dirty, maybe find something that doesn't suit your argument & won't sell copy nearly as well...

I don't blame James for that (many of the opposite side are at least as eager to do the same in their own favour). But it may serve as a salutary reminder to those too eager to see only one side of the coin!

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Megan L
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:08 PM

Dont know where you are going akenaton but i have never found any area a no go zone, even in the days when the city was noted for its gangs.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:08 PM

Sorry Raedwulf, I cross posted there.

James obviously knows little about the situation in Glasgow,and has latched on to this killing (and it is racist). to further the objectives of the BNP.

The problem is a meeting of two very different cultures as I explained already.
The Pakistani community see the poor Scots as contemptable, without ambition, dirty , undisiplined, unbelievers.

They themselves are upwardly mobile disciplined, family orienated and at the moment have no intention of mixing in any meaningful way with the Scots.
These differences are beginning to cause great racial tension,but how to solve them??...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:03 PM

Megan L is right, it was widely reported in Scotland. Radio Scotland had an in depth discussion on the subject, maybe it could be found in an archive somewhere?

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Davetnova
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:00 PM

Unforetuneatly the post is true. But it seems more to do with gangs than race.
A pakistani gang member was assualted in a nightclub by a member of another gang(white). He and his friends went looking for revenge. They abducted this young man because he was walking in the street that was the white gangs homeground. When he could give no information about the original attacker things escalated as they often do with violent nutters, and the young guy was brutally murdered. I think race was coincidental but the BNP having been trying to make capital out of it. I believe several BNP members were thrown out of court during the trial.
They should have thrown them in the Clyde but it would probably have done no good. Shit floats.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 02:55 PM

DaveTG - You post a lot of sense a lot of the time. I'm sorry, but that effort was prejudiced crap!

I'm prejudiced against Guests, & I still don't judge one Guest by another Guest's assumed name! He has a valid point, whether you like it or not. Debate the point, don't stoop to ad hominem - you're better than that!

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 02:53 PM

For fuck sake...It isnt about colour , its about culture and religion

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 02:51 PM

Ake - having read Mr Bradbury's latest, I honestly don't think he's trying to promote 'thuggery'. I think he is struggling to express his p-o-v as naturally as he can, & I'll concede it is a fine line. How do you say that you don't like what the minority of the minority do, without appearing to be on the side of the minority of the majority? Cos someone with a point to prove will always try to twist your words...

My principal caveat, James, is that you have twice labelled the killing of Kriss Donald as racist. You have not offered any evidence as proof, nor has the article you linked to. Bare statement does *not* constitute proof (this is one of the things that I was getting at when I said "...rather more emotively..."). How do you differentiate between random thuggery, gang thuggery, & racist thuggery? And what are the deciding factors in this instance? If the best you can do is a media report, you have a very weak argument, I'm sorry.

B.Ign's post, for me, hits at least one nail plumb centre... So discuss!

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 02:49 PM

"White," of course, is a color, and neither of these individuals (and I did see pictures) is colored white. Try, just as an experiment, putting you hand down next to a piece of paper. We are all shades of tan.

The racial group more correctly called Caucasian includes both Europeans and Arabs. Pakistanis and Indians are Arians (like the Germans once pretended to be), and a mixture of Caucasian and Asian. Call it a "racial" issue if you want, or call it national or ethnic prejudice. Regardless, judging a person based upon the shade of tan/brown of their skin is moronic, no matter who is throwing the punches.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 02:45 PM

Yeah   Yeah ....But what about the PROBLEM?

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Megan L
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 02:43 PM

The case wasnt hushed up just because the english media didnt run it it has been regularly reported in Scotland.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 02:38 PM

Funny old world isn't it? Just when we thoigh we had got rid of Josh (see here) somebody called James comes along.

Yes Josh, sorry, James. You are certainly entitled to have your opinion and voice it. Just as we are entitled to tell you to go back and crawl under whatever stone you came from. There is no point whatsoever trying to racialy agitate people here. They have too much sense and are not as likely to be conned by this kind of drivel as your usual Sunday Sport reading idiot cronies.

If you want to do something really useful go and spout your racist nonsense in the black ghettoes of East St Louis or around the crack clubs of Moss Side. Make yourself a martyr and make everyone happy.

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 02:24 PM

Sounds like the real culprit in this case is poverty.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 02:07 PM

Wel, Im a "left winger", and I hate political correctness which stifles debate.
But I hate just as much your attempt to spin this tragedy to the benifit of political thugs.

Scotland has a real urban racial problem arising, but it will never be solved by increasing the hatred....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:52 PM

Rascism is rascism no matter where it's coming from, and it's deplorable. Censoring discussion on these matters only makes the problem worse, as it promotes ignorance which in turn promotes rascism.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: GUEST,James Bradburn
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:46 PM

hi, this thread is genuine.
the murder did happen, it was recent.
artbrooks, "the white person, apparently (by his name) of Arabic or Muslim descent" was not white, you can see that cleary in the picture.
i dont know which article you read, but it demonstrates how censored this story is.
It was not a gang murder. the killer and his friends, chose this child as he was white, that was the first time their paths had ever crossed. It was a very brutal murder, the boy was mutilated whilst still alive, and should have been in the media a lot.

The fact that very few of us are aware of it, shows how this has been "hushed up." If the whites had mutilated tortured then murdered a muslim child, i am sure we would never hear the end of this story.

In a society where awareness of the problems of "racism" is still all tied up with more than ten years of hysteria and propaganda over the possibly racist murder of Stephen Lawrence by a single stab wound – justice has not been done when not a single national newspaper has carried even the least mention of the trial and the verdict, with the notable exception of The Times, let alone any of the gruesome details of just how Kriss Donald suffered before he died.

Update:
one of the men involved has now been found guilty of race murder. But the 3 main suspects are sitting safe and free in Pakistan.

This political correct stuff is doing more harm than good i am sure. Many white people are very pissed off at this, and their anger could end up being directed at an Asain, rather than the twisted country we live in.
I have many Sikh friends who are just as sick of it as we are. they say that they are grateful that they can live in britian and like learning about british culture and heritage, as well as their own. i have a lot of respect for them as they try very hard to "be british," and have a lot of respect and morals.

People are getting sick of this, and so the BNP is gaining support. not from Nazi extremists, but from normal people who are at the end of their tether. The sad thing is, that all asians etc, will get dragged into this, even though many of them are just as sick of it all as we are.

As one woman in the area of the murder said, "people are walking on eggshells to keep the community stable."

If these media cover ups continue, i cant see happy times ahead. Well done the PC brigade.



left wingers go on about human rights, but they are the ones telling what we can and can't say or do.

The "ban the bnp" campaign is an example. The left go on about human rights, yet they will happily persecute and discriminate BNP supporters because of their political opinion. seems a bit hypocritical.

James
thoughts?

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:43 PM

Troll nothing. I agree with Ake & EG (whom I know somewhat of, & respect), and with James Bradbury (who I know nothing of at all, but on this evidence has a serious point to raise & should not be dismissed as a troll).

From the experience of a friend many years ago (early/mid 80's), I can point out racism in this country. Whites were not significantly involved - it was (mostly) between Blacks & Asians. In the late 90's, a work colleague told me that, according to Sociological theory, it is impossible for ethnic minorities to be racist against the majority, it is merely reaction against repression, & therefore doesn't count (never such a load of crap have I heard...).

The news report appears to be genuine. Mr Bradbury raises two serious points (although his main para may state the case rather more emotively than the article allows for). First, that Stephen Lawrence & white racism *against* whatever is persistently thrust at us. Second, that {cynical}when there is the slightest possibility that racism against whites may occur, a deafening apathy falls upon the press, cos the latter don't flog copy, do it...{/cynical}

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: MarkS
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:34 PM

What does BNP mean?