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Law prevents carol singing
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: Folkiedave Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:35 PM "They would also appear to be OK unlicensed in Sheffield......." Roger, when you write something you know to be patently untrue you do yourself little justice. The truth is as you well know and have been told repeatedly that ONE pub in Sheffield has had problems not of its own making and the law has been tolerant on this occasion. There have been no other problems locally in Sheffield that I, a local carol singer knows about. Of course, living close to matters in Sheffield (in Weymouth) you may know a lot more. Now you may not approve of the law being tolerant to allow a traditional event to go ahead. I do. Dave |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: Peace Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:12 PM Ignore the arseholes. GO SING! |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: The Shambles Date: 22 Dec 05 - 01:45 PM I am sorry if I sound a little uncharitable and unseasional. Perhaps this extract from a letter from my local authority dated 14 December 2005 may help explain why... -------------------------------------------------------------- I write following our recent meting. Apologies for not writing earlier – I needed some time to gather views of colleagues to respond to your specific points. Please also consider this as a response to your letter dated 19th November to Councillor Ames. You raised 4 points. I have reproduced these along with our response to each below: Firstly Perhaps our Licensing Authority can be advised to formally hold and issue a policy that pub sessions are considered locally as incidental live music – if or until there is any test in the nations' court that may decide to the contrary and require a change? As you know, we have a Statement of Licensing Policy and I understand that you have had input into this. We will review this policy every three years and will consult on this as a matter of course. If we discover there is a problem in the Borough regarding sessions and incidental music, we seek to provide clarification when we revise the policy (in December 2007). As I said when we met, if we do this, we will need to provide a definition of a session. Whilst we will need to prepare specific wording, and consider any relevant case law, our definition would stress that session: could take place without an audience; would not be advertised; would not be amplified; and would be spontaneous and not organised to take place on a regular basis. We would also stress that the musicians involved do not receive payment. As I said in our meeting, it is important to emphasise that if musicians regularly congregate at a pub to play, this could constitute regulated entertainment and so the pub would be likely to apply for a licence to provide regulated entertainment as the Cove House Inn already has. I would emphasise that we have had very few issues regarding incidental music to date. I would also like to emphasise that we are not keen to apply 'one size fits all' rules and so we will continue our approach to consider each case on its individual facts wherever possible. ENDS |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: The Shambles Date: 22 Dec 05 - 01:26 PM I don't class officialdom as my enemy and try to work with them rather than being aggresivly hostile. Sadly my experience is that such an approach is seldom reciprocated and the few members of local officaldom who do really try to help are usually outnumbered and outranked by the majority who do see being helpful to the public as part of their job. And I feel it must be remembered that is a job for them - there is no mileage in viewing them as omnipotent beings who the onus is on you not to upset. Expecting what is yours by right is usually enough on its own to upset the worst of them and I have found the worst of them are usually found in licensing departments. If this is not the case - those who work in these depts have the best opportunity to demonstrate that I am wrong. I hope they will all work to prove me wrong. Showing respect to the folk who may work for your local council is one thing - forelock touching and being expected to be grateful for the slightest crumb - is perhaps something else. I don't see that it is 'generous' of any council employee to simply get out of the way of the public's right to express themselves in music. In the long run the sensible interpretation of what plainly is and what is not Regulated Entertainment by LAs is actually in their best interests as it will involve them in less work. It is my view that the Licensing Act 2003 is poor legislation - especially the entertainment aspects. If those employed to enforce it were honest they may possibly agree. However a combination of poor legislation and poor local enforcement will be a disaster. But I really believe that bold and imaginitive interpretation from LAs can still deliver something sensible from the unfortunate words of this Act. However, my experience leads me to doubt if such a thing exists in the area of licensing. And I really don't see it happening if we are prepared to accept and excuse anything less from those who are employed to serve the local community - not to rule over it. |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: PennyBlack Date: 22 Dec 05 - 01:07 PM Tootler, as I'm sure you are aware Wassail, is a toast (and performed at various times of the year) the above song traditionally would have been often sung to toast in the new year. Sort of a "Thank you for giving me some money" - "Cheers Mate" and of course not religious based when sung as a "carol". Merry Christmas Gelukkige Kersfeesen Enquine le gena adersashewu Eid-dok um-barak or Eidat Mubarak Shnorhavor Surb Tsnund or Bari Kaghand Luzihiro Lwa Krismas Kwa Beno Banso Bwanana Na Bino Banso Bonane Nathibitate Alegara or Eguberri Alegara Chestita Koleda or Vesela Koleda Felicas Pasquas Kung Ho Shêng Tan or Shêng Tan K'uai Lo or Sheng dan kuai le Radostan Narodenje Kristovo Veselé Vánoce Glædelig Jul Vrolyk Derstfeest or Zalig Kerstfeest or Gezellige Kerstmis Gajan Kristnaskon Roomsaid Joulu Puhi Hauska Joulua or Iloista Joulua Vrolijke Kerstmis Joyeux Noël Fröhliche Weihnachten Christouyenna Shubh Diwali Mele Kalikimaka Chag Ha-Molad Sameach Shubh Dipavali Boldog Karácsonyi ünnepeket or Boldog Karácsonyt Glediles Jol Ria Hari Natal Gaelic Nollaig Shona Dhuit Buon Natále or Felice Natále Yoi Kurisumasu O Oinori Itashimasu Koo Ju Syung Tarn Felicem Diem Nativitatis Christi Priecigus Ziemasvetkus Selamat Mari Raja Natal Gledelig Jul or God Jul Eiddat Mobark Feliz Natal or Boas Festas Sárbátori Fericite or Graciem Fericit s Rozhdestvom Khristovym Hristos se rodi Vesele Vanoce Radosten Narodzenje Kristovo Feliz Navidad or Felices Pascuas Changamfu Krismas or Nawatakia Heri za Krismas God Jul Maligyang Pasko Nevincli Noel or Noeliniz z Rozhestvom Khristovymor z Rizdvom Khristovim Lê Thiên-Chúa gian-sinh Nadolig Llawen Frehliches Krismes and a Happy New Year PB |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: Tootler Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:20 PM Here we come a Wassailing Among the leaves so green Here we come a wandering So Fair to be seen Love and joy come to you, And to your wassail too, And God bless you and send you a happy New Year And God send you a happy New Year ... We are not daily beggars That beg from door to door But we are your neighbours' children That you have seen before Love and joy... etc. Exerpts from an English Traditional Carol. |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: PennyBlack Date: 22 Dec 05 - 11:13 AM With reference to Carol Singing (to keep with the thread topic) I believe the licensing officer made the correct call when he stated there would not be a requirement for a TEN licence which was neither "Brave" or "Cowardly" It could have just as easily passed across an application form. I don't class officialdom as my enemy and try to work with them rather than being aggresivly hostile. It's results that I'm interested in not the fun of "The Battle". May I suggest that areas where Carol Singers has been told it requires a TEN licence (Not Prevented as implied) that the organiser ask for what reason?(whether classed as entertainment, profit making etc)and if being held in a place where such entertainment regularly takes place eg Buskers, Carol Singing, Morris dancing etc. whether the local council will be obtaining a licence to cover such events as encouraged by the DCMS and to add to the confusion. Jingle doorbells and get nicked By Glenn Ebrey "SCROOGE" police chiefs are urging residents who want a silent night to "arrest" young carol singers. Greenwich police say residents who feel intimidated by warbling youngsters should perform a citizen's arrest on them, because they are breaking the law. But church and youth leaders have slammed the police for their lack of Christmas spirit. Police released a statement to News Shopper, saying anyone carol singing on a doorstep without a charity box or a permit is "begging". The statement also urges residents to "detain such children" and then call the police. The Reverend Elaine Cranmer from St Luke's Vicarage, Westmount Road, Eltham, says the police's position is wrong. She said: "It seems a bit over the top to me. It sounds like using a sledgehammer to crack open a nut. "I'm aware some people feel intimidated but carol singing has become a traditional part of Christmas." Marie Hunt, who runs the Deptford 2nd North Brownie and Guide group, says she has stopped taking her children carol singing because of the "petty rules". She said: "It has gone too far now. The police are like Scrooge, they are just spoiling Christmas for the children. "When I was younger we used to go out all the time on our own but nowadays, the kids can't do it. They don't know where they stand. "It is political correctness gone mad." The Greenwich police statement carries a blunt message to residents "Don't be intimidated and don't give them a penny". It says: "Please remember that anyone (but usually children) who rings your doorbell or knocks and then starts singing carols, but have no official charity collection box or permit, are simply begging. "Begging by children under 16 is an offence under Section 4 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933. Anyone can detain such children and then you can call the police." The law also states the parents or guardian of the singing child will be prosecuted. Now where's that "Is Busking Begging" thread :0) PB |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: The Shambles Date: 22 Dec 05 - 09:46 AM Perhaps it is time to take stock? Carols are currently OK wherever Penny Black lives. They would also appear to be OK unlicensed in Sheffield but licenses are required in South Norfolk. Have I missed any? |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: The Shambles Date: 22 Dec 05 - 09:20 AM Clearly at this stage I and the Council did not want to stifle traditional Christmas activity such as Carole singing so an interpretation of 'in the presence of an audience and for the purposes of entertaining that audience's has been somewhat generous in favour of these events. As we issue licences for open areas this interpretation may be tightened having regard to any guidance or case law which may emerge. At present no TENS have been issued and therefore the full allocation of TENs is still available. *** has been made aware of the use of these notices and the procedure to follow. This is fascinating. It is evidence that LAs at least do see that the interpretation of the words of the Act is a matter for local policy making. However - these officers seem to think that it is a matter only for paid employees and servants of the borough to decide and change these interpretations. In the final analyis it will be a matter for the courts but LAs do have to place a workable interpretation on them first. It is the officer's role to advise on this. But I would suggest that in this case the current 'generous' (or cowardly) interpretation of 'in the presence of an audience and for the purposes of entertaining that audience's' is kept until some legal challenge is made to it. I would suggest that any move by the officers alone to change a interpretation of these words that currently enable carols and other simlar music making events without temporary or permanent permissions is challenged. It is matter for the local Licensing Authority to decide this matters with reference to the local Statement of Licensing Policy. Officers really can't be permitted decide interpretations of the words of legislation based on their readiness or not to issue the required licenses and decide on a less generous interpretation of these same words when they feel they are ready.......... As they state - case law is one thing they must now wait for and any guidance issued now is obviosly far too late for they have made the local interpretation based on current guidance. Pressure from the LA on the Secretary of State to change the words in Schedule 1 is probably the best option. |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: PennyBlack Date: 22 Dec 05 - 07:49 AM We have over the last "several" years (like many musicians) been involved in the changes to the licensing law and its effect on live music and have found various attitudes from the local councils and their enforcement officer ranging from "Jobsworth" to Vindictive and aggressive enforcement of the law, but most are ordinary people trying to get on with their jobs and will do their best to help. One of our local councils has just replied to me with regards to "open area" events TEN etc. It also points out the fact (which we do not always take into account) that several internal departments of the council have to interact to bring about a resolution, and this isn't always a case of popping into the next office. PB Pete, I have this week had a meeting with *** *****, our arts and events officer, regarding the licensing act and the need to licence certain areas of the Borough to encourage cultural activity in line with our licensing policy. Top of that list was ********* but others were mentioned as well, some will need agreements with other parties such as ****** ****. Clearly at this stage I and the Council did not want to stifle traditional Christmas activity such as Carole singing so an interpretation of 'in the presence of an audience and for the purposes of entertaining that audience's has been somewhat generous in favour of these events. As we issue licences for open areas this interpretation may be tightened having regard to any guidance or case law which may emerge. At present no TENS have been issued and therefore the full allocation of TENs is still available. *** has been made aware of the use of these notices and the procedure to follow. Hopefully *** will get back to us shortly with applications for premises licences which we will process as quickly as possible. Have a merry Christmas and a happy new year, incidentally any singing in ******* ****** tomorrow will probably be my section after their Christmas lunch. ******** |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: GUEST,pavane Date: 22 Dec 05 - 07:26 AM Besides which, Wales is also affected, not just England |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: The Shambles Date: 22 Dec 05 - 06:42 AM Shambles, Why should the person who added England remove it, as it makes clear the fact that this does not affect the USA, or Canada, or indeed many other countries, including Scotland. Don T. I do not say they should. I simply, respectfully and politely asked if they could. If I had thought it to be a good idea to include this in the title - I perhaps would have included it. As I did not - a simple PM asking why and if I would object to any change being made to my chosen thread title would I think, to have been the polite, respectful, polite and classy way to proceed. |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: The Shambles Date: 21 Dec 05 - 08:35 PM Oh I forgot to mention that The Mayor is also vice-chairman of the Licensing Committee......... |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: The Shambles Date: 21 Dec 05 - 08:01 PM http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/12/20/ncarol20.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/12/20/ixhome.html |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: The Shambles Date: 21 Dec 05 - 07:44 PM I wonder just how many illegal carol singing events are currently taking place outside our supermarkets. I have just heard of one locally where the Mayor of my borough actually sang at such an unlicensed event. The particpants claim that they were not singing for the purpose of entertaining an audience - valid or not - with my knowledge of his particpation - I am sure that it is a claim that our mayor will now be most eager to support. Before this he was quite supportive of his officer's view that all music making was for the purpose of entertaining an audience. |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: Wesley S Date: 21 Dec 05 - 12:36 PM I guess I need a definition of "near". |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: MMario Date: 21 Dec 05 - 12:19 PM Wesley - you'd have to get a permit to protest near the senate or the white house - so why not permission to protest near paliment? |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: Wesley S Date: 21 Dec 05 - 12:17 PM If it were me - I'd sing anyway and claim it's religious persecution if I were arrested. Then fight it in court. And y'all must be in a bad way if you need permission from the police to protest near Parliment. What's up with that ? Am I missing something ? |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: PennyBlack Date: 21 Dec 05 - 12:05 PM Shambles - Carol Protest Demo Link - BBC Wesley S wrote I'm going to make an assumption that in England there is a freedom of religion law Carol Singing is not necessarily connected with religion some treat it like "Penny for the Guy" or "Trick or Treat" a general Fund Raiser or just enjoy singing the songs. I bet there's a few atheists that have sung Gaudete in their time (and made a few bob from singing it) :0) PB PB |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: The Shambles Date: 21 Dec 05 - 11:57 AM http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4545704.stm |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: Wesley S Date: 21 Dec 05 - 11:01 AM Don T. - Thanks for your reply. Has anyone actually been arrested or prosecuted yet ? I'm going to make an assumpion that in England there is a freedom of religion law of some sort that would protect this activity. Who says a church meeting needs to be indoors ? |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: s&r Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:32 AM Oh well, it printed on my post but not on the header. Stu |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (UK not Scotland) From: s&r Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:30 AM Does that help? Stu |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:23 AM Wesley S, The maximum penalty for the organisers is £20,000 fine or six months jail, or both. Shambles, Why should the person who added England remove it, as it makes clear the fact that this does not affect the USA, or Canada, or indeed many other countries, including Scotland. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:06 AM Has anybody considered that the root of carol singing is busking? Young Martin Luther is known to have sung carols from door to door with other poor pupils of his local school to add to their livelihood. Ban laws on folk! |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: DMcG Date: 21 Dec 05 - 09:46 AM The web site that carried the article that started this thread is now displaying this:
I am searching for further detail... |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: GUEST,DB Date: 21 Dec 05 - 04:12 AM Any chance of rock music being banned? ...thought not! |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: GUEST,pavane Date: 21 Dec 05 - 02:52 AM Could it be BOTH at the same time? Why not? |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: The Shambles Date: 21 Dec 05 - 02:07 AM Can who ever inserted 'England' to this thread's title please remove it?
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: The Shambles Date: 21 Dec 05 - 02:05 AM Penny Black - where and when did this item appear? A Scotland Yard spokeswoman was not able to comment on whether a carol service constituted a demonstration and said a decision about whether to take action would be taken on the day. Intersting decision for the police. Carol singing is either a political demonstration or a Regulated Entertainment. Perhaps there is a third option that it neither? |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: JohnB Date: 20 Dec 05 - 09:29 PM Sorry the body won't be there, the spirit is however with the singers. Godd Luck and Good Singing, JohnB |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: PennyBlack Date: 20 Dec 05 - 08:43 PM Will be interested to see what if any action is taken on this one, and whether the new licensing law will be invoked to stop them! Singers defy Parliament demo ban The new law bans unauthorised protests within a half-mile radius Carol singers are to become the latest group to defy a ban on unauthorised protests around Parliament. The group will test the limits of the new Serious Organised Crime and Police Act by singing in Parliament Square from 1800 GMT on Wednesday. The law makes demonstrating without police permission an arrestable offence near Parliament. Singers include long-term anti-war protester Brian Haw and Maya Evans - the first protester to be convicted. Ironically Mr Haw is the one protester exempt from the ban, due to a Home Office drafting error. He successfully argued in the High Court that as his four-year vigil pre-dated the law, he did not have to apply for authorisation to continue. Since the law came into force in August, several people have been arrested and other protesters have been warned off. Peace campaigner Ms Evans was the first to be convicted under the Act, after reading out the names of soldiers killed in Iraq at the Cenotaph. Mr Haw will lead the Lord's Prayer at the service on Wednesday, joined by others including former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray, and a 7 July bombings survivor. A spokesman for the carol singers, Tim Ireland, said: "In this instance, the police have not been notified. They've been invited, certainly, but they have not been notified. "We believe that the public has the right to gather in a public place and sing Christmas carols. The police may see things differently, we shall see." A Scotland Yard spokeswoman was not able to comment on whether a carol service constituted a demonstration and said a decision about whether to take action would be taken on the day.
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: BB Date: 20 Dec 05 - 02:52 PM Depends where you're intending to perform the Tup Play. If you're going round the pubs, you need to check whether they have 'ticked the box' for entertainment - if so, you should be OK. If not the pubs, but in public places, you would need a separate Temporary Event Notice for each place at which you want to perform. Barbara |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: Rank Date: 20 Dec 05 - 01:49 PM I was thinking about reviving the Derby Tup in Killamarsh this year, but due to slothfulness didn't get round to it. Perhaps next Christmas. I assumed that we would be runnung foul of the law, but the government aren't very law abiding, so I don't see why I should be. |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: GUEST,abs Date: 20 Dec 05 - 01:12 PM and did they intending to make a collection? this would have an effect on the licence requirement. Stu - singing carols is surprisingly not necessarily a religious meeting. Has the local council not raised a licence for this Public Place? |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: Rasener Date: 20 Dec 05 - 01:06 PM Have the PRS and MCPS got God on their books? |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: Wesley S Date: 20 Dec 05 - 01:06 PM Isn't peaceful civil disobedience called for at a time like this ? What type of fines or imprisonment are we talking about here ? Wouldn't most judges throw this out of court ? |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: Grab Date: 20 Dec 05 - 01:03 PM Buggered if I know. :-) But in my experience of singing along to them, "carol service" generally involves a dose of sermons in your sing-song, whereas "carol concert" would involve singing but not sermonising. My personal feel is that if you sing Christian songs then it doesn't automatically make the performance religious - think David Bowie doing "Little drummer boy", or a whole bunch of country singers. Something needs to differentiate between a Christian song as entertainment and a Christian song as praise. But anyway, that's only marginally relevant to the thread. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: JohnB Date: 20 Dec 05 - 12:54 PM Why don't you all quit and move to Canada, we don't have to put up with this BULL. JohnB |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 20 Dec 05 - 12:05 PM What about barbara? Jerry |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: DMcG Date: 20 Dec 05 - 11:57 AM My MP has responded. Ok, all that has happened so far is that he has promised to get in touch with Richard Bacon (the local MP) and to write to DCMS for an explanation, but even so to get any response in less than 4 hours is pretty good going. |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: GUEST Date: 20 Dec 05 - 10:26 AM The world has gone bloody mad..what nonsense. |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: Billy Suggers Date: 20 Dec 05 - 09:35 AM Cor! The Beerfordbury Wassail got off lightly ! - I reckon on the basis of all of this the whole 30 of us oughta be spending Christmas in Chelmsford prison ... on second thoughts ... as Mum's coming for Dinner can I have a volunteer to shop me? |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: DMcG Date: 20 Dec 05 - 07:37 AM Well, stu, Graham and the DCMS both indicated that carol singing would in some circumstances require a licence. Let me make myself clear: I don't think it ever *should* require a licence but I can see that councils will sometimes insist on a licence. I've email my MP (Conservative) with this example, bye the bye, and asked him to press the Government to say what futher steps they intend to take to clarify that events such as this do not need a licence. I don't expect anything to happen, but it can do no harm. |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: s&r Date: 20 Dec 05 - 07:32 AM Carol singing is a religious meeting in itself (doesn't have to be a service) Stu |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: DMcG Date: 20 Dec 05 - 07:27 AM I see your point, Graham, but if I was playing devil's advocate I would argue that being organised by a religous group is not sufficient to make it a religious service [and therefore exempt]. For example, the Act says exempt singing should be part of a (presumably larger) service. Is that the case? Is there preaching, for example? |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: Grab Date: 20 Dec 05 - 07:02 AM So the people at that church didn't know about the part of the Act that specifically excludes singing as part of a religious service from licensing? To quote from the Act, Schedule 1 Part 3:- The provision of any entertainment or entertainment facilities- (a) for the purposes of, or for purposes incidental to, a religious meeting or service, or (b) at a place of public religious worship, is not to be regarded as the provision of regulated entertainment for the purposes of this Act. So the law is actually outstandingly clear on this - there's no confusion in the law at all. And whether the carol service takes place in a church or in the town centre, it's automatically exempt. Carol-singing *not* as part of a religious service though would still be licensable, because it's being done as entertainment. From the link:- The churches say they sought guidance from South Norfolk District Council, which indicated a licence was required but that it was too late to apply. The fault here is clearly with the council in providing crap information. Villan's dead right - there *are* some absolute arseholes running the country - but the location of those arseholes is not what that article suggests. Shallit's Razor:- "Never attribute to conspiracy what may be adequately explained by stupidity or incompetence." Graham. |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: Flash Company Date: 20 Dec 05 - 06:53 AM A group of Carol Singers in 'Dickensian' costume accompanied by a dog on a lead, struck up outside a house in Weymouth. When the door was opened, the nine singers and dog, burst into the house and arrested the occupants for posession of cocaine. Wonder how they stand with the Licensing Act 2003? FC |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: DMcG Date: 20 Dec 05 - 06:49 AM I should have read the article before I posted. This sentence is significant: The churches say they sought guidance from South Norfolk District Council, which indicated a licence was required but that it was too late to apply. |
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Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. From: DMcG Date: 20 Dec 05 - 06:45 AM I agree with Shambles that that is not what the Act says. But even so, I can see why an organised Carol Service of the kind mentioned in the first post could be thought closer to the second DCMS example than carol singers 'just deciding to sing in a particular place'. |
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