Yuletide carols

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: GUEST,Henryp
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 02:02 PM

Here's a contemporary Christmas song, The Meadowhall Carol written by Jim Boyes. You can find it on the CD Christmas Truce - Kerstbestand recorded by Coope Boyes and Simpson and their friends. It's a very moving rendition.

And it was on a cold and angry winter's night
A bitter hail did fall
When all should be encased in homely candlelight
Not in an ox's stall
Nor crouching round a dying fire
Deprived of hearth and home
Nor trapped by circumstance or wire
In a godforsaken zone

There was no one but the ox and ass to hear the cry
Or so the story goes
'Til angels brought the news to wandering shepherd folk
Of a babe in swadding clothes
No glad tidings or blessings rare
For numbers yet unknown
In shelter squat or tent they stare
In a godforsaken zone

And Wise Men came from far and distant foreign lands
Brought gifts of joy and woe
Bowed down their faces only for a little while
Their homage for to show
A gift, some joy but woe enough
For those we then disown
For one a loaf, for one a gun
In a godforsaken zone

Believers say it's faith and hope and charity
That light the guiding star
And gifts of gold bestowed upon the military
That fan the flames of war
Let swords be drawn, ploughshares forsworn
And crops remain ungrown
Let children starve and life be scorned
In a godforsaken zone

And so it's once again, my love, to tinsel town
The mystic glitter calls
The hoardings say that Jesus Christ is born today
Is born in Meadowhall
And far away where Santa's sleigh
Can never never roam
They die to fight another day
In a godforsaken zone.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: UB Ed
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:24 PM

Good on you Peg!

Ed

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: Peg
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 09:14 PM

I have to say, I thought those rewritten lyrics were pretty bad, too. I have seen similar efforts by other writers. I don't understand why the need to have the song be "paganized" is so intense that one would sacrifice fine old lyrics for sappy new ones.

As both a pagan and singer I have been interested for many years in songs of the Yuletide that reflect the beauty of nature, and do not so much emphasize the Christ aspect. Here are but a few fine old songs that to me really capture a "pagan" spirit of the season:

The Gloucestershire Wassail
Oaken Logs
The Boar's Head Carol
The Wexford Carol (John Renbourn's version)
Carol of the Bells
The Fairest Maid
The Holly and the Ivy
Lullay My Liking
Sheep 'Neath the Snow

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:58 PM

Malcolm Douglas: "frankly ludicrous" is a fair description of Norman Iles' "carol restorations" as he called them. Norman was an old friend in Lancaster in the 60's, we sang together often. He was an absolute sweetuie, and his songs were dreadful. But, as has been pointed out several times, one man's "dreadful" is another man's "wonderful", and who knows a Norman Iles' yuletide carol may yet be a big hit for some latterday neo-pagan Cliff Richard. But I wouldnt's bet on it.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: JennyO
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:43 AM

Hi Sarah. My friend John wrote this song for you only a couple of hours ago. Because we are in Oz, and it is always hot at this time of year, with the threat of bushfires looming, the song is partly about the contrast between the Yule fire and our bushfires, and the difference in the way we celebrate at this time, and that in spite of the differences, the spirit is the same.

I've sent you the words in a PM too. He hasn't had time to think of a tune yet, but we thought if we posted it on the thread, someone else might be able to come up with one. Any suggestions?

Yule.

John Warner.22 November 2004

Yule, Yule, merry old Yule,
Drag in the log for the Lord of Misrule,
When December is dark and cold winter is cruel,
Here's good health by the fires of Yule.

Here is no place for the Judgemental priest ,
We're here to enjoy what the good year's increased,
To sing round the fire, to tell a good tale,
To eat beef and puddin' and drink the brown ale.

And here's old King Christmas and all of his men,
To act out St George's bold legend again,
So drink and be merry, let's all play the fool,
The great log's ablaze, it's the season of Yule.

The ranges are blue and the heat is intense,
The road surface shimmers and the line of a fence,
Beneath the verandah a table is laid,
Where the neighbours are gathered, all grateful for shade.

But no Yuletide log will be dragged in to blaze,
For the brown smoke of bushfire is staining the haze,
Yet the spirit of Christmas provides its own fuel,
In the drink, food and singing of unchanging Yule.

Yule, Yule Merry old Yule,
Beer when it's cold and a dip in the pool,
Snow or a bushfire are equally cruel,
But your good health, old mate, for the season is Yule.

Yule, Yule, merry old Yule,
Drag in the log for the Lord of Misrule,
When December is dark and cold winter is cruel,
Here's good health by the fires of Yule.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:51 AM

I doubt if any are still in print, but second hand copies are usually available for small sums. I have a copy of The Restoration of Cock Robin; it's inventive and quite well written, but frankly ludicrous in its contentions. Norman had an extremely vivid imagination in common with his mentor Robert Graves, but lacked his scholarship.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 02:58 AM

Norman Iles is a name that springs to mind in the field of pagan carols...does anyone know whetehr his stuff is available nowadays, published or recorded?

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: GEST
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 02:34 PM

Allow me to introduce you to a small collection of Newfoundland Christmas Carols. :-)

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: MBSLynne
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 07:48 AM

Songs have always been 'hashed up' as you call it. There are numerous tunes which have a variety of different songs set to them and no end of lyrics with a number of different tunes. I hate to quote a cliche here, but it's all part of the 'folk process'.

The songs may have a valid place in history and, I agree, should be taught to children on that basis, but if they are religious songs which don't reflect your own beliefs and religion, I see nothing wrong with them being 'adapted' as well. Jenny O is right, there don't seem to be many original, new pagan songs on offer, so as I'm not a song writer either, my kids and I will just have to use what is available.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: semi-submersible
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 07:18 PM

My mother learned new words to familiar carols when she worked on a Norwegian freighter as a young woman. Silent Night becomes Glade Jul (pronounced GLA-de yool) in Norwegian and Danish. The languages are so close that Mom (learning Norwegian fast, since there was only one English speaker on the ship) took weeks to discover that one of the crew was a Dane speaking Danish, not a Norwegian with a lingering head cold!

Click the blue words to read the Norwegian lyrics beginning "Glade jul, hellige jul." (The o with a slash through it is pronounced a, and the a with a little o above it is pronounced o. So the city of Gåssø rhymes with Rosa and not with Brasso. I think the y's say ee like the j's. Given that, it's pretty phonetic, so you should be able to sing it without making Norwegian listeners laugh too hard.) The Danish version begins "Glade jul, dejlige jul."

I loved to hear Mom sing it. It sounded beautiful. But one of her Norwegian friends said the English words were prettier. I guess a foreign language can make anything seem exotic.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 09:58 PM

I t seems to be implied in one of the posts that these remade songs may be taught to children. I find that most unfortunate when perfectly good songs, correctly placed in history, are the ones being hashed up.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: JennyO
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 08:54 PM

Sarah, I'm really glad you liked the site and some of the songs. I'd be interested to hear from you about your favourites and which one you are thinking of performing.

And thanks very much for your input, Lynne. I think you make a very valid point. Anyway, it seems to me that some of the well known "traditional" carols were not exactly works of art themselves, but people are used to them, and changing the words seems strange. Myself, I'd rather sing a carol about Yule, because it reflects my views. Certainly some well-written originals would be welcome, but they don't seem to be forthcoming here, and I'm not a songwriter myself. My SO is a songwriter however, so I might issue him a challenge to write one.

Now, while certain people are busy having their opinions, I might go and see if I can find some more songs ;-)

Jenny

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: MBSLynne
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 08:34 AM

But Greg...you say the "The most positive thing that any of us can do is make sure our children hear the best songs we know..." Surely we have to make sure they just hear as wide a rage and variety as possible? What we think of as the 'best' songs, may not be what someone else thinks are best. If we only give tham our version of best aren't we imposing our tastes on them? Expose them to all and any music. They'll work out their own tastes in the end, and we'll probably be pleased at what good taste they develop!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: MBSLynne
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 08:08 AM

Hey Paul...I really like that....

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 07:57 AM

To me, it doesn't matter much whether you call it Chrismas, Yuletide or even Winterval, as long as you recognise that it's no more a Christian festival than is Easter or All Souls/ All Saints. And that neo-Pagans really (despite much research) have much more than the vaguest idea of how what and even why the archaeoPagans celebrated these feasts.

I started a sceptic carol once but ran out after the first verse:

The rain fell from a sky of grey
Above the cave where a baby lay.
No choirs of angles sang his praise,
No shepherds stood in rapt amaze.
A fallen girl, her husband old,
The inn was full, the night was cold,
The dirty straw lay on the earth
Where Mary gave her baby birth...

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 04:02 AM

A third thought. I think the most positive thing any of us can do is to make sure children hear the best songs we know. Then they can choose what they. For me to do anything else would be very dishonest! I've recorded loads of Christmas songs. Naturally I chose the ones I thought were good. What do you expect me to do?

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 03:48 AM

Just as a specific example:
(original)Bring us out a mouldy cheese
And some of your Christmas loaf"
(new improved version)
Bring us out a mouldy cheese
And some of your Yuletide loaf"

I am being asked to believe that this is an improvement. I disagree. And:
O Yuletide tree
O Yuletide tree
To sus you are so lovely.
I think that is unsingable doggerel. But I fully agree, one man's doggerel is another's poetry. I remeber well the editors of the Oxford Book of Carols(mainly Vaughan Williams) expressing the view that "Good King Wenceslas" was unsingable doggerel, and hoping it would soon drop out of sight. Well, their wishes weren't granted. Mabe people will be singing "Oh Yuletide tree to us you are so lovely" in their millions in a hundred years time. Who knows?

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 03:38 AM

I think I know about being positive. Mudcat is chock full of my wildly enthusiatic posts about all sorts of music. I spend my whole life being enthusiastic about music. But that does not mean I have to be enthusiastic about every lyric containing the word "yule", There is a fantastic body of seasonal music for the approaching time of year, some containing the word "Christmas", some the word "Yule", some neither.
    My opinion of the lyrics quoted by JennyO is that mostly them were bad rewrites of perfectly good songs. My opinion, of course(I presume we all write our own opinions here). Disagree, or agree, as you like. That's what discussion is about. But claiming I am not positive about things isn't discussion, it's just rubbish. As is plainly obvious, I LOVE music.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: MBSLynne
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 02:47 AM

Sarah will probably comment herself later, but at the moment she's getting ready for school. We like the site Jenny posted...Yule songs are very hard to come by, so anything is good.....how about some of you very clever musical people writing some for us? Sarah loved a couple of the ones on the site and is going to learn one to sing at our folk club. Thanks Jenny!
The songs they teach children in school are often not particularly brilliant, but the kids like them, and Sarah is being exposed to as wide a variety of songs and music as we can manage. In that way, as she grows up, she will be able to form her own opinions and develop her own taste

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 11:15 PM

Come to think of it, I neglected to mention the thread Welcome Yule!. A 15th century song set to a 19th/20th century tune. Posted it myself as it happens, but that was 3 years ago. I'd forgotten all about it, but fortunately Q revived it earlier today.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: Blackcatter
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 11:13 PM

Malcolm - just because you don't like them, doesn't mean they are a waste of time on this thread. What you and Greg have said is merely your opinion. For all you know, what Jenny has posted was exactly what Shadylady was looking for.

That's the whole point of the Mudcat - putting a lot of stuff here - good, bad, indifferent, funny, insulting, etc. the quality doesn't really matter because people have different tastes.

You may apologize to Shadylady for being in the middle of an arguement, but remember that Jenny didn't start the argument (yes, you didn't either).

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 10:42 PM

I don't doubt for a moment that you posted in good faith; uncritically, however. The road to hell, as you know, is paved with good intentions; and it is unwise to hold your breath while walking it.

Beyond supporting Greg's well-made point (though of course unpopular; the truth is usually unpopular when it spoils cosy fantasy) I might add, for example, The Yule Days. It's a Scottish form of The Twelve Days of Christmas; a reciting-game rather than a song, but it does have the merit of being more than a century old and not re-invented last week.

It's generally the case that "Yule" doesn't appear much in song between the middle ages and the 19th century, when it became fashionable again; it's a perfectly good Old English word (geol, and Old Norse jol) but not greatly used in popular culture until revived in Victorian times.

I for one would like to apologise to Sarah for becoming involved in an unseemly quarrel in the middle of her thread. I'm afraid that we do get involved in arguments here, sometimes. It's one of those things that you don't grow out of when you get to be "grown-up", as it turns out. For what it's worth, it does at least prove that we care passionately about the subject!

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: JennyO
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 09:49 PM

Malcolm, if I thought I was "palming off rubbish", I wouldn't have taken the time and effort to post. No wonder some people give up in disgust and leave! Fortunately I have a thick skin.

I can only repeat to you what I said to Greg.........and I'm awaiting your contribution with bated breath.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 09:36 PM

Greg's was a positive contribution, I'd have thought. Those texts are indeed embarrassingly bad; no two ways about it. Sarah (ShadyLady) is quite young, after all, and we do need to be sure that we are telling her the truth in answer to her question. It would be quite wrong to try to palm off rubbish of that sort on her when she asked a serious question in good faith.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: Blackcatter
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 09:32 PM

I doubt Greg knows what "positive" means. Certainly, everyone can share their opinion, but it's pretty sad when blanket statements are pawned off as the truth.

Slamming everyone who has rewritten a song is a pretty sad activity.

There are many good rewritten songs out there. And frankly, many songs what were created from nothing suck pretty badly too. Even songs that we hold dear during the holiday season aren't exactly Shakespeare.

I would post some of my Yuletide songs here, but I decdied not to post my own work at Mudcat a couple years ago because of louts who will critique something to death merely for their own amusement.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: JennyO
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 08:57 PM

Well Greg, certainly some of these are not as well written as others, but I would not describe them all as "embarrassingly bad". I guess it's a matter of personal preference.

Do you have a positive contribution to add?

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 04:46 PM

JennyO's post quotes some "Pagan Yule" carols, which are embarrassingly bad modern bowdlerised rewrites of traditional carols. There is quite a little industry of rewriting folksongs with the offensive bits removed(often references to drinking or Christmas, which tend to annoy certain people for various reasons). Fairly predictably, the results are not uniformly successful: the folk are rather good at writing folksongs, bowdlerisers aren't.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: nutty
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 01:27 PM

There is also a previous thread that may be of interest

CLICK HERE

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: nutty
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 01:22 PM

The words and music to the ancient carol "Welcome Yule" can be found here ...........

Welcome Yule

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 12:19 PM

The original of Here we come a-wassailing of course, is the traditional 17th c. English Wassail carol, without the nouveau pagan slant. See: Hymns and Carols of Christmas: Wassail
"Bring us out a mouldy cheese and some of your Christmas loaf" is one of the better lines. Reminds me of that superb dish, apple pie topped with a good, moldy Stilton.

No Yule, but "chestnuts roasting by an open fire," I guess, is more to the modern taste.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: Alba
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 10:35 AM

Now ShadyLady here's a wee website that will challenge you...it's Yule in Iceland.
It's a very nice site with a lot of stuff (for the want of a better explaination:>)
Hope you like it: Yule in Iceland
Yuletide Blessings
Jude
ps: maybe you could try singing some of the songs in Icelandic...lol....Skarpi, a Mudcatter comes from there and might be able to help!

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 09:52 AM

Here's a modern one:

Chestnuts roasting by an open fire.
Jack Frost nipping at your nose.
Yuletide songs being sung by a choir,
and folks dressed up like Eskimos...

There's more to the song, but this should be enough to let you find it, if you are interested.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: JennyO
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 09:23 AM

Well, Shadylady, I have to thank you for sending me on this quest, because I have found (and bookmarked) a great website with many songs mentioning Yule or Yuletide - and most of the words are new to me, although the tunes are well known. They, and many others, can be found here

Willow Firesong's Pagan Yule Carols

If you click where it has the name of the tune in red, you can listen to them too. I've posted the words of some of them - I especially like the first one - and by the way, welcome to Mudcat!

Jenny


Here We Come A-Wassailing - Chorus by Hilda Marshall

Tune: "Traditional Carol"

Here we come a wassailing
Among the leaves so green
Here we come a-wandering
So fair to be seen

Chorus:
Love and joy come to you
Peace and hope and friendship too
And we bless you and wish you a happy new year
And we wish you a happy new year!

Chorus

We are not daily beggars who
Beg from door to door
But we are neighbors' children
Whom you have seen before

Chorus

We have got a little purse
Of stretching leather skin
We want a little money
To line it well within

Chorus

Call up the butler of this house
Put on his golden ring
Let him bring us a glass of beer
And better we shall sing

Chorus

Bring us out a table
and spread it with a cloth
Bring us out a moldy cheese
And some of your Yuletide loaf

Chorus

God bless the master of the house
The mistress bless also
And all the little children
Around the table go

Chorus

Good master and good mistress
While you sit by the fire
Pray think of us poor children
A-wand'ring in the mire


Lady Moon Shine Softly

Tune: "O Little Town of Bethlehem"

Lady moon shines softly down
To light the Earth below
As we, her children, gather here
Around the Yule fire's glow

We wait for morning's dawning
First light of holy birth
Our Lady turns the wheel of life
Her Son returns to Earth

With joy we'll greet his dawning
A new year has begun
With increased light is bright new hope
Reborn in Everyone.


Yule Fires - John G. MacKinnon

Tune: "Greensleeves"

In ancient days the folk of old
When chilled with fright by winter's cold
Did kindle up a great Yule fire
With leaping flames in its great pyre;

So to entice the waning sun
To rise again and wider run;
It's fiery course across the sky,
To warm them so they would not die.

So we, whose minds now sense a chill
Of anger in the evil will,
The human conflict, hate, and strife,
Which hold a menace over life;

Would kindle up a flame of love
That we within our hearts may move,
In Yuletide joy, with love embrace
And thus abide in peace and grace.


O Yuletide Tree

Tune: "O, Tannenbaum"

O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree
How lovely are thy branches
O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree
How lovely are thy branches
Bring joyful tidings of great cheer
O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree
To us you are so lovely.

O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree
Evergreen and fragrant
O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree
Evergreen and fragrant
We bring you in our home to be
A sign of life's eternity
O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree
Forever green and lovely

O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree
Thank you for your blessings
O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree
Thank you for your blessings
with golden stars and twinkling light
You cheer us on this holy night
O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree
Thou art most fair and lovely

Share the Light - Ellen Reed

Tune: "The First Noel"

On this Winter holiday, let us stop and recall
That this season is holy to one and to all.
Unto some a Son is born, unto us comes a Sun,
And we know, if they don't that all paths are one.

Chorus:
Share the light, share the light!
Share the light, share the Light!
All paths are one on this holy night!

Be it Chanukah or Yule,
Christmas time or Solstice night,
All celebrate the eternal light.
Lighted tree or burning log,
Or eight candle flames.
All gods are one god, whatever their names.

Chorus

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: MMario
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 08:33 AM

actually - if you check the records -
Don we now our gay apparel,
Fa la la, la la la, la la la.
Troll the ancient Yule tide carol,
Fa la la la la, la la la la

was substituted for older lyrics about 1911 or so...earlier the lines refferred to drinking and carousing.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: MBSLynne
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 08:26 AM

I'm inclined to agree...I hate it, but can you come up with any other Yule songs?

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 07:50 AM

If you can sing those words to "Deck the Halls" without laughing you're a better man than I am. That sort of Victoriana hasn't lasted very well, IMVHO.

Subject: RE: Yuletide carols
From: GUEST,DMcF
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 03:45 AM

I got plenty of reference material via Google after typing in Yuletide and a second search of Christmas Carols
Good hunting.

Try a look at ....
http://www.sanfords.net/Pagan_Humor_and_Thoughts/Pagan_Yule_songs.htm
....interesting!

And from....
http://www.carols.org.uk/
.... straight away.....

Deck the Halls : Lyrics
Deck the halls with boughs of holly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Tis the season to be jolly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Don we now our gay apparel,
Fa la la, la la la, la la la.
Troll the ancient Yule tide carol,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.          etc etc

All the best - Duncan

Subject: Yuletide carols
From: ShadyLady
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 03:33 AM

Hello, I'm 9. does anybody know any Christmas carols that mention Yule or Yuletide?