Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?

Subject: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Alec
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 03:28 AM

This thread is not intended to be controversial or inflammatory.
I am simply somebody who does not "get" "Blowin' in the Wind".
I know these are not original observations but to my ears it is simply a list of rhetorical questions culminating in a phrase that is so vague & imprecise that it could mean whatever you wished it to.
And yet it seems to hold a special place in the affections of a great many people.
Is this because of the way it was picked up by Civil Rights movement, or is it because of some particular merit of the song which I have failed to notice?
This is a genuine enquiry.I would appreciate any & all views on the matter.
Over to you.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: John O'L
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 03:49 AM

"How long?" is a common enough question among those hoping for a better world. The point of the song is that there is no indication as to how long it will take before a better world arrives.

I think it works well.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 04:26 AM

You have to put it into the context of the early 1960s, when the Civil Rights movement and anti-war protests, etc., were gathering momentum. At the time the song (although not the only one of its type) created quite a stir, because of the questions it posed. Maybe nowadays some of the words may mean less than they did then, because things might have moved on in the past 40+ years (though some might say not as much as they would have liked).

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Alec
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 07:59 AM

All true & valid. But...
Going with what you say John O'L,this was also incorporated by Sam Cooke into his,slightly later, song "A Change Is Gonna Come"
This song was (IMO) more powerful & more precise than "Blowin' in the wind" & yet didn't seem to hook the public imagination to anything like the same degree. Was that in spite of its precision or because of it?
I recall one appreciation of "Blowin' in the wind" that concluded that the "answer" that was "Blowin' in the wind" was the stars and stripes.I think (possibly wrongly) that this is a misinterpretation but I feel that this is a song which lends itself to misinterpretation in a way that "A Change is Gonna Come" or The Internationale or,for that matter,"America,The Beautiful" do not.
Precision does not in itself prevent misinterpretation,here in the U.K. it is not uncommon to hear Christians or Conservatives sing "Imagine" though it is usually painfully obvious they are not thinking about what they are singing or why they are singing it.
"Blowin' in the Wind" would probably sound less anomolous,which is possibly why it mystifies me.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST,Thomas
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 08:11 AM

Blowing in the Wind can be sung by opposite factions to their own satisfaction which makes it a weak song in my opinion. Its strength lay not in the words but in the melody which was taken from 'No more auction block' sung to great effect by Paul Robeson, a great anti slavery song.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 08:16 AM

I once heard somebody (Clive James, I think) say that this song contains one of the most beautiful lines ever written followed by one of the most crass:

How many miles must the white dove fly, before she sleeps in the sand,
How many time must the cannonballs fly before they're forever banned.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Stower
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 09:51 AM

I would have thought 'The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind' means 'The answer cannot be known, cannot be grasped, just as the wind cannot be grasped and we cannot predict where it will blow'. I would have thought this would be very meaningful in the context of 1960s civil rights, with people fighting hard for and against things with no definite time of achievement to look forward to.

Surely the thing about a lot of great art is that it is multivalent and is open to many applications, just as much traditional music is.

One other thought. Bob is Jewish, as everyone knows. In both Hebrew and Greek the word for wind also means breath and spirit. So the answer is in the wind, our breath, in the spirit. But I may just be trying too hard here!

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 09:54 AM

I always looked at it as an incredibly personal song. The questions are what we should be asking ourselves and finding our own answers. The questions are not rhetorical or being asked of others.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 09:57 AM

I always thought that "the answer is blowing in the wind" meant that we would soon find out the answers, in other words, things were about to happen that would make the answers clear, the governments' policies would soon come home to roost, etc. Maybe some of them were answered, but others maybe not (so far).

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 10:27 AM

My father (who was even less interested in Bob Dylan than I am, which is saying something) always thought it was an American rah-rah patriotic song and it was the US flag that was meant to be blowing in the wind and would be the answer to everything. The song is vague enough that, from what we had to go on in New Zealand when it came out, he could perfectly well have been right.

BTW, I can't think of a suitably insulting phrase for the US flag, along the lines of "The Butcher's Apron" for the British one - surely somebody's thought one up?

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 10:33 AM

The song has nothing to do with flags or patriotism or religion. It is an anthem of a generation in the US that changed the country and the way it looked at civil rights. If you weren't there you will never understand what it says or what it means.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Louie Roy
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 10:54 AM

I came across an article that stated this song was actually written by a negro in 1863 during the civil war and if you listen to the words they all fit with that era.Whether this is fact or fiction is what you want to believe.I myself believe it did originate at that time due to certain phrases such as (How long will the cannonballs fly)(How long will people exist before they are allowed to be free)(And the answer my friend is blowing in the wind)

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 10:56 AM

But here's a starter: "How many roads must a man walk down, before you can call him a man?" was first sung in an era when men of one segment of the American population were routinely addressed as "boy" by another segment of the population ...

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:02 AM

(My observation was intended to directly follow GUESTMark's - Louie Roy got the jump on me - with his, um, extraordinary hypothesis).

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:12 AM

The song has nothing to do with flags or patriotism or religion. It is an anthem of a generation in the US that changed the country and the way it looked at civil rights.

I agree. It was anti-establishment rather than patriotic. Listening to some of Dylan's other songs from that era (e.g. Masters of War, With God On Our Side) makes it clear he was no waver of the stars and stripes.

Maybe the wording of Blowing in the Wind was deliberately vague for that reason - rightly or wrongly, he may have believed he had to be careful what he said. He may have thought that if he had been too direct in his criticisms, the US government would not have approved and might have found a way to shut him up.

(I have no evidence for these comments, it's just speculation on my part)

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:23 AM

Also I think it should be noted that the song had a lot more of an impact the first 500 times you heard it. After that it can wear on you a little - at least that's my opinion. The fact that it's an easy song to perform was both a good and bad thing.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Bee
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:24 AM

I would expect part of its popularity, aside from the sentiments, is the fact that both lyrics and melody are very easy to learn and remember, lots of repetition, resulting in many people who don't make any effort to learn songs at all being able to sing this one.

I'm amazed some people thought the 'answer' was the American flag. If the song were written by a Canadian, I can't imagine anyone identifying our flag as 'the answer' to anything.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: bobad
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:31 AM

It sure made attending church more enjoyable when it and other topical songs were sung to guitar accompanyment during church service as a contemporary update to the usual hymns.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:32 AM

It is after a vindaloo

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:33 AM

"If the song were written by a Canadian, I can't imagine anyone identifying our flag as 'the answer' to anything."

Except to the question: What's that faded, raggedy red and white thing hanging up above the gas station - right beside the stars-and-stripes?

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:38 AM

I can vaguely remember a 1960s TV comedy sketch in the UK about a protest singer being interviewed (might have been Benny Hill, but I'm not sure?). Some people frowned upon them because of their unkempt appearance, and I think the interviewer asked if it was true the singer never washed. His reply was "The answer is blowing in the wind...". Anyone remember it?

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:49 AM

Like Alec who started the thread I do not mean to be accusatory or inflammatory. But I really think if you don't 'get' the song it's because you either have never had injustice weigh on you, or you are not an empathetic person, not that there is something faulty in the song.

The line quoted above "How many roads must a man walk down, before you can call him a man?" I guess you have to feel in your own mind what it's like to go to WW II, return, be a responsible adult, and have people still think they can call you 'boy', and wonder how blessed long this must go on.   If you can't relate, I guess you can't relate, but I can't see tearing up a beautiful moving song over it.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:05 PM

Like the song or not, I can't see how anyone can say that those questions aren't still waiting for an answer. Poverty, oppression, repression, violence, war - they're all still with us, even when the forms change and the victims change too.

The Stars and Stripes as the answer blowing in the wind - the thought of anyone imagining that was what Dylan was meaning is really bizarre.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Alec
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:39 PM

Hmmm,a lot of interesting views.Reading around the subject it transpires that,amongst others,Pete Seeger,Tom Paxton & Dave Van Ronk all tended to a view similar to my own in regard to this song.
Ian Pittaway it may be that you are, in your own words,"trying too hard" but it is a very intriguing assertion that makes a lot of sense & would not be out of character for Dylan.
Guest,Mark I think if your hypothesis was correct the song would not have endured for so many years in so many countries.
Guest 11:49 I remain unconvinced.It is not for me to say wether I am or am not an empathic person but I do have more direct experience of injustice than I would wish.
Just to clarify I don't think Dylan intended "The Answer" to be interpreted as "The U.S. Flag", but rather this interpretation could be logically arrived at.(Worth remembering that Dylan later showed himself quite capable of adopting Ultranationalist positions "Slow Train Coming" being merely one example)

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:56 PM

"Guest 11:49 I remain unconvinced." What is it, exactly, that you are "unconvinced" of?

As for it being the U.S. flag "blowin' in the wind", I go further than McGrath: that interpretation is BEYOND bizarre ...

As for the views of Pete Seeger et al ... it's a well-known part of the Dylan story that he turned out something of a disappointment to the lefties, by popularizing such images as that of answers blowin' in the wind, as opposed to answers being spelled out in political pamphlets ... Unfortunately, for those who share the outlook of those particular detractors, Dylan was and remains a poetic - well, some would say 'genius', and who am I to quibble?

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 01:01 PM

I don't think it is possible for anyone to imagine what this song sounded like it 1962 if they weren't there then. I'm lucky, I heard the Dylan version before the Peter Paul and Mary sickly cover. It was absolutely rivetting to hear him belt that out, young and fresh. But now, well it's like hearing a jazz band playing "When the Saints Go Marching In". It's a bit tired.
As to what it actually meant...well, what's that got to do with anything?

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 01:03 PM

My personal view is that Bob was,you know, like , trying to tell us that he felt that the answer was,as it were,sort of,well----"blowing in the wind "---- you know ?? Kind of ??

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 01:21 PM

"Logically" it could have been a US flag, or a Soviet Flag, a UN Flag, any flag you cared to name. Just because something is logically possible doesn't make it reasonable to think it's true.

But there is something flag-like about the song - like a flag it is pretty unspecific, it takes its meaning from the way its used, and from the meaning the people using it give to it.

That's not a criticism, its how certain types of songs are, and its part of their strength. In principle there's nothing in a song like "We shall not be moved" which would get in the way of it being used by hardline segregationists, with minimal adjustments to the words customarily sung.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 01:33 PM

(McGrath: well said!).

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Alec
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 02:23 PM

I remain unconvinced that an inability to see great merit in this song is becausse of a lack of empathy or direct experience of injustice.It transpires that amongst those of us who don't rate this song too highly we must number,er,Bob Dylan (who dismissed it as a "ten minute knock-off")McGrath Of Harlow your flag analogy does work but "Here we go,here we go,here we go" worked just as well for the miners during the 84/85 strike.Greg must admit I was in primary education during the late Sixties/early seventies every student teacher we got thought it would be "sweet" to teach us this song,every one of them thought they were the first to have had this idea.It is possible that my own perception of this song may have been coloured by this experience.
bubblyrat,that's a very intriguing interpretation.What makes you think that? :-)

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 03:54 PM

I just re-read your original post ... so, to address some of your points:

'I am simply somebody who does not "get" "Blowin' in the Wind".'

"Getting" and "liking" songs and poetry is very subjective - what is striking or appealing to one person may well leave another cold.

'I know these are not original observations but to my ears it is simply a list of rhetorical questions'

Agreed - except for the adjective "simply". The rhetorical questions are in the form of remarkable, memorable images and phraseology with Churchillian power -

'culminating in a phrase that is so vague & imprecise that it could mean whatever you wished it to.'

Not quite. Despite some of the preceeding interpretation, "blowin' in the wind" clearly indicates that there are no easy answers; perhaps there are no answers - but the rest of song implies the desirability of trying to improve things anyway - much like the refrain "when will they ever learn". The "failure" to provide a pat answer is one reason why this song lives on, and will live on long after those anthems that celebrate pat answers have been discredited and forgotten.

'And yet it seems to hold a special place in the affections of a great many people.
Is this because of the way it was picked up by Civil Rights movement'

There are many reasons for the popularity of the song: nostalgia combined with its association with the correct causes of the '60s & '70s being only part of it, although perhaps the main part.

'or is it because of some particular merit of the song which I have failed to notice?'

There IS considerable merit in the song - FOR those who are moved and excited by imagery and the imaginative use of language. That's not everybody. For those who are more moved by straight and effective logic, the song will have less merit.

It's like the vintage car the mechanic down the road is always tinkering with. How much merit is there in it? For me, not a great deal. For him - clearly, a great deal. Which one of us is right? (The answer, my friend ... ).

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 04:04 PM

Though Dylan never claimed to be or wanted to be a spokesperson for the anti-war & civil rights movements of the 60's he was sort of drafted by the anti-establishment fronts because of his views, outlook & social comments in his songs. Many folkies are left leaning & many supporters that were against the war & for civil rights shared much in common in the 60's. He never took a formal stand, he only voiced better than most his feelings, that was his stand, how he as an individual felt about the issues of the day, it just happened that it was what many others felt but didn't or couldn't express them as well & he had the perfect medium to express it widely, in songs that would turn out to be carried far & wide. It was a voice that was looked for, needed & found. "Blowing In The Wind" was his questions, which happened to be the questions of so many others of his generation. He just was better at putting those questions into straight, simple & direct terms that they couldn't be ignored any longer espicially with that generation that was questioning so much of what had been 'the excepted'. It was a generation of questioning the norm, the excepted, the rule, the government, the rights & wrongs & the need for war. A friend of mine who later became a professer said to me that the older professers that taught during that generation said it was the best time of their careers, the kids questioned everything, they had to work to teack this generation & that tis generation wouldn't let anything go be without examination, nothing was taken for granted or excepted on face value.

Is it only that pigs can see the wind or that "we'll try to catch the wind" or that there are any answers that are 'blowing in the wind'? In order to make change one first has to see where change is needed & in order to see that one needs to question what exists. Slavery carried on here for better than 400 years. Why? Quakers questioned this & tried to bring attention to the plight of slavery.
IMHO that's all Dylan was doing with this song & the way he did it struck a nerve & a cord with a whole generation that was asking the same questions. BUt he asked the right questions & they were simplely put. In his "Masters Of War" he had already answered his own question of why & here he made his own statement in reply.

How this could be taken to represent a flag is also beyond me. The waving of the flag was questioned by most of that generation.

The world could well use another voice as clear & as in touch as his was back then, maybe with a bit more tonal quality this time but almost any voice will do.

Barry

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 04:21 PM

Well put, Barry.

(GUEST at 3:54 was me, meself).

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Alec
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 04:25 PM

Very interesting post GUEST.
Paradoxically, I do like this song it is the opening track on one of my favourite albums.
This,in itself, may be a factor. I feel my fists start to clench when I hear "Masters of War" & I have a little wry smile when I hear "Don't think Twice its, alright" ("You kinda wasred my precious time" possibly the finest "kiss off" line I ever heard)
But Blowin' in the wind...
I take your point about poetic/logic disparities though in areas other than the political I usually tend to the former.
I love "I Am The Walrus" because of its antirationalist stance & verbal dexterity & I love the mellifluousness of "Across The Universe" despite believing that song to be little more than the lament of a man in denial about the radical change his life was undergoing.
My desire to "get" Blowin' in the Wind isn't really a desire for a single simple "Correct" meaning.
Just wondering why of Dylan's entire output this song should be just about the best known & best loved.
My own particular favourite is probably "Like A Rollin' Stone"
that does not invalidate other choices. I just like knowing what determines the choices people make.
Does that make sense?

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Dave Roberts
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 04:39 PM

Scrump (12th Feb). I think you're thinking of the routine the late Bob Monkhouse did (repeated occasionally since in clip shows) in the early sixties. He was attired in Beatles suit and wig and was being 'interviewed' by a voice off camera. He answered the questions by miming to little clips from pop hits. And one of the questions was indeed 'is it true that you never wash?' and the answer was as you described (taken, I think from the Peter Paul and Mary version of the song).

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 04:56 PM

In answer to the original question. Yes. It's special because of its philosophical nature, which is brilliant...because of its brevity and simplicity...because of its historical timing, which was absolutely perfect (that's why it had such an impact)...and because of its universality (which will cause it to endure and be remembered)...and because musically and lyrically it works extremely well.

If you don't get it, perhaps you are being too literal and left-brain about the whole thing. It's not an instruction manual or a recipe for political action, it's a poem. Poems are meant to stir the heart and the soul, not to provide answers to theoretical questions in a logic class.

In any case, maybe you had to be there in the moment when it first happened. Maybe you were. But I don't know if you were or not.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST,mick burke
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 05:01 PM

I think the song is special because it's the only Dylan song that came close to actually being a folk song at a time when Dylan was being hailed as a great folk singer . Like other Dylan songs it has taken on layers of meaning that perhaps weren't apparent to the composer himself in the ten minutes it took him to write it.
Dylan was a rebel - an individualist never comfortable as the voice of his generation . One reading of "the answer my friend is blowin'in the wind" could be that Dylan was articulating his own cynical answer to the unanswerable questions he posed. Blowin'in the wind is the best course for the individual to take ,just take things as they come.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 05:26 PM

Dylan was absolutely steeped in the folk tradition by the early 60's, he loved it, and he wrote a great many genuine folksongs and covered many trad songs brilliantly. Have you heard his 1964 live recording of "Barbara Allen"? It's stunningly powerful. He WAS a great folksinger, man, but he decided after a bit to do some other kinds of music instead, that's all. It was his decision to change his musical style that pissed people off. They didn't want him to change.

As for the layers of meaning not apparent to the composer himself at the time he writes the song....yeah! That nearly always happens with really fine songwriting. That's because there's far more than just you conscious, analytical mind involved in the process. Dylan would be the first to admit himself that he didn't necessarily know what something was about at the time he wrote it...or even later in some cases. He wrote by sheer gut instinct. That's how really great songwriting is done in my opinion. It's the mediocre crap stuff you hear all the time on the radio that is done by premeditated calculation. No surprises there...not for the write or the listener. Dylan's stuff surprised people, and according to what I've heard it surprised him sometimes too.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST,mickburke
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 05:52 PM

I never heard him sing Babry Allen ,but I'm sure he would have made a good job of it . He was a great folksinger and a brilliant composer,but did he ever write a great folksong ?

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Bugsy
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 06:00 PM

It's very special to me.


Cheers


Bugsy

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 06:02 PM

Well, mickburke, I guess it depends on how you define the term "folksong". How do you define it?

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST,Thomas
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 06:04 PM

At that time he was nicking tunes from everywhere and putting very naive words to them. The tunes carried the day and blowing in the wind aka no more auction block was a prime example. He relied on the punters not knowing any better, then and now. Little Hawk is just one of those who could never see anything wrong with Dylan and are blind to criticism.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Peace
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 06:11 PM

I think the song was released in 1963. It is 2007. Here folks are talkin' about it.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 06:23 PM

Great love tends to work that way, Thomas. ;-) You see the good in people when you love them. Everybody nicks tunes, consciously or unconsciously, and it's in the grand folk tradition to do so. The only reason Dylan gets criticism for it is this: he was a big success when he did it.

I see plenty of things wrong with Bob (he's got his dark side and he had a very big ego), but I don't resent his success. I think his nastier and less objective critics are primarily driven by precisely the fact that they resent his success.

I am perfectly aware where Dylan borrowed trad tunes, and I think that in most cases he greatly improved upon the original songs in his rewrites. I have done rewrites on trad songs too. It seems like a perfectly normal thing to do in the folk tradition to me.

Dylan also recorded "No More Auction Block" and performed it live quite a bit. It's a cool song. "Blowin' In The Wind" is better, in my opinion, both musically and lyrically. It's considerably deeper.

If you think Dylan relied on "punters" who didn't "know any better", then what the hell do you think the entire mainstream pop music business relies on, and every other popular style of music, not to mention our stupid political system and our mass media???? They rely on punters who don't know any better, that's what.

Find something to criticize that matters a bit more than whether Bob Dylan adapted some old trad songs to new lyrics.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 06:25 PM

"Nicking tunes from everywhere" - nicking implies taking something away so that it's not where it was before you took it. You can't do that with a tune. What you do is use it.

And using and maybe modifying existing tunes is what people have always done when they've made up a song, or wanted to sing a set of words they'd come across. And that's what Dylan did, the same as Woody Guthrie before him, or Ewan MacColl much of the time.

When we talk we use the same sounds as other people do, and the same words we share with them, and we put them in a different order, and we quote stuff other people have used. If we are making a collage we use bits of other people's pictures and stick them together in different contexts. It's not really all that different.

(And it's not exactly the same either - pretty well any time you make a comparison or draw an analogy you seem to have someone leap up and suggest that you've said the two things involved are exactly the same. I thought I'd try to head that off in advance this time.).

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 06:36 PM

I read as far as Scrump's post, regarding putting it into the context of the way things were in the sixties. I have to agree. About ten years ago, I heard a young man ask.. "What's the big deal about the JFK assassination? I don't get it.". It occurred to me then that things were so different that it's almost impossible to explain to those born after 1970. Would be nice to see the original author (what's his name again?) maybe come back and answer some of the questions he asked, so long ago. I'll go back and read the others now.
Regards
Jim

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 06:39 PM

Right. And you canNOT steal something that is already in the public domain, like a trad song. You can certainly use it, though.

The problem is, some stiff-necked people out there in the folk community way back then had come to the conclusion, emotionally speaking, that they "owned" the version of various trad songs which they were most familiar with....meaning, the version they first became attached to in their youth. To them, that version was the only legit version there ever was. As far as they were concerned, Bob was a scrawny little newby upstart from Minnesota with no credentials whatsoever in their divine pecking order and he was messing with what they owned.

I've got news for those people. You did not own that stuff. And of your pecking order I will say this: "everything passes, everything changes"

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 06:45 PM

The "universality" of songs like this is simply keeping any statements vague enough that they don't offend anybody into not buying the thing.

The guy was a professional popster. The song made him a lot of money. If it had said anything genuinely uncomfortable about the US corporate mass-murder machine of the time - getting people to actually do something specific towards destroying it rather than just feel good and selfrighteous - it would have made him a lot less money. End of story.

I have never met a single person who did a single positive political act as a result of listening to anything Dylan wrote, and a hell of a lot who just sat at home listening to his dreamy waffle on their record players when they could have been out making a difference. The net political effect of his lifework is indistinguishable from Sinatra's.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 06:55 PM

Interesting comments, Jack & Little Hawk. I don't suppose, I'm the only one whose noticed that the whole sixties movement is now driving the "Machine" and the rules of the road just get "Made UP" as we go.

Subject: RE: Is 'Blowin in the Wind' special?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 07:01 PM

geez, Jack, my sister was on a Freedom Ride trip when she heard these songs and they sure as hell inspired her to a lot of political acts, and they got a message across to those who would have otherwise spent their college years playing softball and listening to Jan & Dean. Sorry you dislike the guy's deal, but the songs were real and had a real impact on real times