BS: Are we becoming too politically correct

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 11:22 AM

"It's a standard tactic of the BNP and other racist groups to pose as "ordinary members of the public" when posting, to suggest a climate in which their views are not seen as the filth they are."

About two years back I got into it with the BNP and some people who were posting on Mudcat (who also posted to Stormfront). Lost some friends here because of it (tough shit) and learned that not too many folks are willing to put their names where their 'social' mouths are; that is, they wanna talk the talk but not walk the walk. That said, Victor ain't one of 'em (BNP type), IMO, so maybe everyone ought to cool down just a bit, no offense.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: skipy
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 11:37 AM

"Skipy, don't for a moment think it could not happen here"
Hi GP, I expect it to happen here!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 02:11 PM

Wolfgang, I had already posted a link to that thread. I realise I mis-stated Rick as the originator of "ethically conscious." I don't think it's worth splitting hairs over; he said "correct" as did Jon W.,and I took it to "conscious."

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 02:11 PM

Thread drift, but...

"One minute you're talking separate Assemblies, the next X wants to control the North Sea revenue," If that's a dig at the Scottish National Party it's not really too fair, George.

The SNP have always been pretty open about wishing complete independence for Scotland, and also pretty vocal about the fact that most "British" oil comes from what would be Scottish national waters if they were independent.

I don't think the disaster of the way Yugoslavia broke up should be grounds for getting too worried about what would happen Scotland achieves independence. The example of how the Czechs and the Slovaks managed to part amicably enough, and the Norwegians and Swedes and the Danes and Icelanders also showed how these things can be handled without too much upset.

And though the initials of the SNP and the BNP may sounds similar, they are poles apart.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 04:18 PM

At one time the SNP were known as "Tartan Tories" and were very right wing.

Thankfully, as McGrath says times have changed. The modern SNP are quite a bit to the left of Labour....not that that's saying much!!

Of course we're too PC...Try to hold an objective discussion about homosexuality, multiculturalism or immigration on this forum and just watch the heads poke out from under the stones.   They have all the newest words designed to sabotage the discussion and the hatred is palpable.

In one memorable thread ,I was accused of being "the type who probably abuses my own children"....simply for giving my views on a controversial subject.

There is a lot of venom sloshing about the slimier corners of this forum........Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Rowan
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 04:19 PM

Ah, Riginslinger has reminded us of the past.

Pauline Hanson (who, when accused of xenophobia, questioned the interviewer with "Please explain!?" leading to a few songs lampooning her) is not standing for her old House of Reps seat (Blair) based around Ipswich in Queensland. But I gather she is standing for the Senate.

The battle between the major parties for government will be won in the House of Reps but the balance of power in terms of 'what can be done with/about legislation' will be determined in the Senate. That battle is now so intense that I suspect parties like the Greens might have more traction than the remnants of Pauline Hanson's One Notion. But I haven't caught up with last Saturday's registration of Preference flows.

Although it can be rather crowded, we live in Hope!

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 05:20 PM

Well, Ake, there are genuine disagreements around - but I don't think that a bullshit label like "politically correct" helps, whether that's being presented as a good thing or a bad thing.

And I can hardly rememeber any occasions where anyone has actually useed that label except as something to attack. Leaving aside people whose concerns are just about lawsuits and legal issues, and I do leave such people aside.

But courtesy and consideration for other people who often get treated without either of those thinsg does matter a great deal, and I don't actually think there are many people who would disagree with that as a ruling principle, though we might disagree over details about what that should imply in practice.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 05:22 PM

It sounds like the Australian Senate is quite different than the American Senate.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 05:31 PM

And the Canadian Senate. In the words of Mark Twain, "A benevolent old asylum for the helpless."

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Bainbo
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 06:16 PM

Apparently you're not even allowed to refer to psychiatric hospitals as "asylums" any more.












It's madness gone politically correct.

(Copyright Armando Ianucci)

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 06:43 PM

"Asylum" is an example of what was a positive label, adopted for that reason, which has lost that quality largely because the places themselves didn't live up to that positive intent. That has often happened.

But in any case the large places which were charmingly referred to as "Lunatic Asylums" have ceased to be the way people with mental illnesses are treated, and carrying over the term "asylum" to use for the small units where people with mental illnesses are treated would be misleading.

Changing names and using positive language by itself doesn't make any real difference, and it can camouflage horrors at times. (For example "Arbeit macht Frei" on the gates into Nazi death camps). But changing names as part of a change in the way people regard other people is something that can help.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 07:08 PM

'"Lunatic Asylums" have ceased to be the way people with mental illnesses are treated,'

            Now we elect them president and send them to the White House.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 04:13 AM

Kevin, I was not referring to the SNP or indeed Plaid Cumry or any other specific party, neither did I want to implicate them indirectly. I just wanted to make the point that one could be complacent, thinking the worst atrocities couldn't happen in the UK in the name of petty nationalism. The Yugoslavs too thought they were living in a civilised country, after all.

If such a thing ever transpires for the UK - and I fervently hope it will not - it will be despite the advice of such parties, not at their instigation (with BNP the sole possible exception in this). Incipient xenophobia, racism and other such traits can simply coagulate around whatever handy organisations exist at the time (in Byzantium, the Iconoclasts and their opponents formed around two competing sports teams to wreak their havoc, for chrissake!).

Last weekend my daughter was visiting an old schoolmate studying in Bangor. She heard amazing stories of persistent unprovoked violence by local youths against students and outsiders generally. Sure, some of it is the old "town v gown" syndrome; but much of it goes well beyond. How hard would it be to marshal such feelings into something really ugly? Not very, I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 05:41 AM

George....You confuse ethgnic/religious differences with political/ economic domination.

The Scots like the Irish, might be prepared to die for political freedom.......But I don't think so...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: PMB
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 06:24 AM

I agree, George. The forces unleashed by racism, homophobia and so on go far beyond the immediate perceived problem. It seems to start with the deep inner conviction that "something" is badly wrong, progresses to finding a scapegoat, then legitimnises violence against that scapegoat. After this point, the violence sustains itself quite simply because it can, that the primitive and childish instinct to lash out to alleviate feelings has been held in and is now released. That what was behaving badly is now defending your community. So perfectly respectable career soldiers like Ratko Mladic were transformed into inhuman war criminals.

We might seem to have have got a long way from a Daily Mirror grumble about PC, but you've only to be in a pub full of (white) football supporters to see how easy our society could fall into such a trap. the Italians appear to have done so this week, trumpeting their outrage against crimes by foreigners, while remaining silent about crimes committed by Italian "vigilantes" on (probably innocent) EC migrant workers.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 11:23 AM

Ake, the point is that these things are confused in many people's minds; especially after a few bevies. And of course, they can be also abused for cross purposes (those of religious interests pointing out at the economic "injustices" and vice versa). Why, just see how the biblethumpers are using, and are used by, the economic and other interest groups in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Riginslinger
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 11:37 AM

"Why, just see how the biblethumpers are using, and are used by, the economic and other interest groups in the US."



                   Of course, in this case we are talking about people without minds.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 11:42 AM

To the extent that political correctness has taken away our ability and willingness to laugh at ourselves and our human frailties, I think it has damaged us immeasurably. The road to hell is supposedly paved with good intentions - PC, in excess, may be among them. It disturbs me to see so many people afraid to express themselves for fear of chastisement. At times, especially at institutions of higher learning and in the mass media, it becomes an outright abridgement of the right of free expression. The old "Sticks and stones" admonition of our parents' generation seems to have disappeared in yet another misguided pursuit of utopia. Is book burning next?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Amos
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 11:56 AM

IT also strikes me as perverse and strange that in an age where someone who is old has to be called chronologically gifted so as not to smack of ageism, someone like the harridan of the right, Ann Coulter, can slander and slam her little black heart out in mass media without being shut down, and the great liberal tradition of our best hopes can be somehow mislabeled with hateful names by folks who make good money doing so in print or on the air... I believe that political correctness is a bad idea, and that individual manners is a preferable alternative. When self-defined, voluntary codes of right action become mandated as group totems and shibboleths, they lose all their meaning.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 12:32 PM

As a pensioner who already knows he is a bit of a dinosaur, believe me I wish to Christ I had never started this thread. I have received messages calling me a "troll" a member or supporter of the "British Nationalist Party" a "racist" and "homophobic".

I wish to say I am none of the above, what I am is an old fool who started a thread here after reading last Sundays newspapers and thought it would make an interesting thread.

What it has shown me is some members of mudcat cafe sit at their keypads on a battle footing awaiting a green light.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 12:55 PM

That should read "signal to proceed" - "Green light" is no longer to be used in case it confuses or offends the colour vision impaired.

Like TJ, I bemoan the disappearance of some humour. The best jewish jokes used to be made by people of that very faith; the best Irish jokes by Irish folk. They used to be good-natured (not the working men's clubs kind of humour). Groucho Marks would have been out of a job today.

And talking about the great Groucho, I heard a side-splitter last week on the radio, as part of the commemoration of 75 years since he hit the scene: While hosting a quiz show on Armed Forces Radio at the start of his career, he asked a contestant "tell us something about yourself". The discussion continued as follows:

"Well, I have a wife and thirteen children"
"THIRTEEN children? Why so many?"
"Because I love my wife".
"I love my cigar too, but I take it out now and then".

Aahhh, those were the days...

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 02:22 PM

Incorrect halloween costumes are now likely to get you fired or reprimanded at a company party.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 02:25 PM

ufos are still politically incorrect.

Back in 1951 the subject had much more respect. http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/plan-9-from-outer-space/2007/11/02/1193619145400.html?page=3

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 02:31 PM

eanjay, I have sent the cartoon in your link to a number of friends.
It hits the nail, but the blog with it has a lot of nonsense (imo).

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 02:33 PM

Q, thanks for that.

I've had the link deleted because I was concerned that it might offend someone.

You have made me feel better though.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 03:48 PM

Basically it's a load of bollocks, idiots getting offended on behalf of others! If I wish to refer to someone as a working class oik or a raghead I will.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Peace
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 05:36 PM

I agree with the fuckhead who just posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 05:36 PM

"Politically incorrect" should mean accidentally voting for a candidate from the wrong party.

It should be retired as a way of talking about making sure to avoid insulting other people by using labels they are understood to find offensive. That is better referred to as "common courtesy".

And in fact that has to a considerable extent happened. My imperession is that by now it is mostly used as a put down - "political correctness gone mad" and so forth.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 07:24 PM

Plan 9 was not made until 1954.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Peace
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 07:41 PM

Great flick, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Riginslinger
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 11:54 PM

"Incorrect halloween costumes are now likely to get you fired or reprimanded at a company party."


                   Yeah, I couldn't believe that one either.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 08:22 AM

Hasn't it always been the case that costumes at a company oparty are liable to get people into trouble if they get up the nost of the management?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 10:35 AM

YES WE ARE HERE IN BRITIAN AND AUSTRALIA WHERE THEY HAVE EVEN politically corrected a jellyfish in case it gets offended I mean a bloody Jelly fish for God sake. that's how bad it is

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: GUEST,Director RSPCJF
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 10:51 AM

Hey, jelly fish have rights too you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Peace
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 11:04 AM

True. They go well on toast with peanut butter.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 11:49 AM

This thread seems like deja vu.

There was one almost identical in July called 'BS: Has anyone noticed....UK' here:BS: Has anyone noticed....UK

Possibly the same originator under a different name?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 12:19 PM

One point to keep in mind is that quite a lot of the shock horror examples turn out to be complete fabrications or distortions.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 01:04 PM

As the thread winds down, we get to the real truth, which is that "Political Correctness" is really self-defense--in both the UK and the US--there are a lot of people, some of them very well organized, who will use any opportunity, down to a slip of the tongue, or a bad word choice, to publicize their grievances, both real and imagined.

And I would apolgize for my spelling--I believe that self-defence" is a valid and acceptable spelling, and furthermore, I've been under a doctor's care, and taking medication. And that should have been apologise....

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 02:46 PM

I have clarified to Mr. Happy above through pm that I never started any other thread here under a different name.

"This thread seems like deja vu.

There was one almost identical in July called 'BS: Has anyone noticed....UK' here:BS: Has anyone noticed....UK

Possibly the same originator under a different name?"

He has accepted it wasn't me.

Anybody else wishing to put the boot in please do so by pm.

Thank you

Victor

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: DougR
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 03:14 PM

What Little Hawk said in his first post on this thread. Yes.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 04:39 PM

I hope political incorrectness continues unabated. As a cartoonist the practice is essential to keep my work edgy.


The halloween costume that caused the person to be reprimanded was wearing dreadloocks and black face while sporting Jamaican clothes.
She was a white woman.
And thats a no no now.

An update to my prediction 13 weeks ago of a Bush tragedy, although some would argue that he is constantly tragic, is coming up this month. We shall see what we shall see.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 04:15 AM

Now this isn't directed at Victor- I know now that he isn't BNP or even anything worse than what he said himself, becoming an old fart, like many of us. But this story reminds me of many car journeys out to work on site in the company of other, normally perfectly respectable, engineers. If anyone crossed the road in front of the car, someone would count the "points" for running them down; 1 point for a little kid, 5 points for a woman, 10 pints for an OAP... and 100 points for a "Paki". Harmless non-PC fun? Or an indicator of hidden rage? Or somewhere inbetween.

As I've said elsewhere before, when PC is used to defend the vulnerable, it's just plain common sense. When it's used as a method of attack, playing the game that nothing you say can be right, it's just another part of the fight to dominate, and is a form of bullying. But when the Daily Mail attacks the use of "melanin enhanced" or "differently able", you can bet that what that vile rag really wants is to be able to print "wogs out" and "xxx is queer".

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 06:18 AM

PMB, you missed out the pregnant woman :)

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 06:39 AM

PMB, on a serious note I agree with what you have said.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 06:51 AM

"One point to keep in mind is that quite a lot of the shock horror examples turn out to be complete fabrications or distortions."
..07 Nov 07 - 12:19 PM

spot on Kevin!

for example the so-called 'downgrading' of Christmas published in the Daily Mail - where else?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Trevor
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 07:07 AM

"And what of OUR "Human Rights " ,"

Erm, who is the 'us' being referred to here?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 07:18 AM

It's important to get a happy medium and unfortunately we do not always achieve that.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: Trevor
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 07:27 AM

If kids in the playground use 'spacker' as an insult then I hope you don't mind if my mate asks you to use another term to describe his cerebral palsy

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: GUEST,Ban political Correctiness
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 07:40 AM

I just hate Political Correctness because the people that use it don't just don't think how stupid it sounds, I mean that's their problem not mine, mind you there are certain words or phrases that are used now whichc even which offend me words like Scotch while talking about someone from Scotland, we are Scots

Subject: RE: BS: Are we becoming too politically correct
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 08:08 AM

Well Ban, objecting to being called "Scotch" is Political Correctness Gone Mad! I'd call them Unfortunately Located Persons.