Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 08:21 PM

"You have to judge a man as a whole, not just a small part."

It strikes me that the problem here is that some people are feeling it necessary to do just that, judging the man on all the things he did in 100 years, especially the ones they don't like from the later years.

Perhaps if you are "judging" a man you do it on that basis; but when you are not seeking to judge, but to appreciate him, maybe it's better to concentrate on the bits that you like best, and set aside the ones you don't.

"Judge not, lest you be judged."

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Bert
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 08:45 PM

Oh dear.

I liked Paleface, in case you haven't seen it, it was a spoof on Westerns. It was a SPOOF guys. You weren't supposed to take it seriously.

It was funny because it poked fun at Western movies and my Dear Mudcatters it had at least one good song in it. "Buttons and Bows". And several good jokes "Hmmm, Virginia Creeper".

When Painless was shaving and the arrow went 'thunk' and held up his mirror. It wasn't intended to be a putdown on Indians. It was meant to be funny.

Gawd, if you think that Paleface was chauvinistic and racist then you'd better not watch any of the Carry On movies.

One of the things that makes us human is the ability to laugh at ourselves. There was a thread recently on stereotypes, and yes that was funny as well.

I'm very left wing but I can still laugh, and I thank Bob Hope for making me laugh hard and often.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 08:55 PM

Please excuse me Banjer and others, but I just have to ask GUEST,pdq this:—

I take it from what you have written that you are of the conservative persuasion. Looking back over both Ron's and my posts, I can't see that we have done anything but praise Bob Hope. Yet you attack us as if we are attacking Hope's politics rather than lauding his talents as an entertainer. Somehow, we seem to have offended your conservative sensibilities. If you don't mind, would you please go over our posts and let us know where, exactly, we transgressed? I can't see it, myself. In fact, in the post in which I posed the Great Cosmic Question, I was taking to task those who bad-mouthed Hope and who seemed to be wanting to turn this into a political thread.

What, exactly, did I say to trigger your ire?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: The Walrus
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 09:13 PM

Well, I for one, am grateful for the life of Bob Hope.
OK, maybe a lot of his 'ad libs' were actually written for him, but there is a lot in the delivery - he was a performer for God's sake!<1>
Maybe he wasn't quite the man his image minders projected - that's called being human.
Maybe I don't find him as funny now as I used to do- Tastes change
Maybe his films are not 'politically correct' - They were made when p.c. only stood for Police constable.
Maybe some find his politics 'iffy' - that can be said of many people along all parts of the spectrum
All in all, he is well into the plus side of the ledger and the world is richer for his being.

Thanks for the memory, Bob

Walrus


<1> A Musical comparison? "Lucy in the Sky" by the Beatles and by Shatner - It's in the delivery

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 09:20 PM

Don: I had not yet read the admirable defense of Hope and others that you posted. Thank you. You and Ron have both been fair. I do ask that, at some time, you study the general tone of the Mudcat discussions. There is only one side making the personal attacks, the other side is merely fighting back. That is how I see it. Politics has been part of folk music for a long time, but right now the left seems to be driving out anyone who won't toe the line, living or dead. Again, that is how I see it. God bless Bob Hope.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 09:23 PM

In short, you just made a bunch of assumptions without reading what we said and exploded on the basis of what you assumed?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 10:34 PM

PDQ - we should probably take this discussion to another forum, because it does not do Bob Hope justice, however since we started here I would like to add something.

You made a good point about one side making the personal attacks, but while it does seem to come from anonymous guests attacking the right, I don't think it is fair to say that the other guy always starts it. The problem with fanatics on the extreme of both sides is that they live in shells. They fail to look at the real world around them and TRY to figure out what makes them think the way they do. That doesn't mean you have to give up your beliefs or excuse wrong-doings. It means that you understand what makes the "other side" tick and perhaps enables you to come up with solutions.

Getting back to Bob Hope, there was a beautiful A&E Biography about the man that just finished airing. They dealt with Vietnam, and he did not make excuses for his being a "hawk".   He did try to explain that he wanted to win the war and get everyone home. That doesn't change the way I felt about the war, but I do think I understand his feelings. The bottom line is that there were HUNDERES OF THOUSANDS of soldiers who didn't want to be there either, and Hope let them know that there were people who cared about them. Cynics will say that the U.S.O. shows earned him money and benefited his career, but that is wrong. There are many other ways to do that. You don't need to spend every Christmas away from home, living in extremely dangerous conditions and chance losing it all. Hope, like Al Jolson who actually began the practice, spent time because something inside of them gave them their reason for being here on this planet. It is called service. Hope was a hero.

Loving one's country is something that both sides fight for. The left wants to make change because they feel that the ideals that built this country aren't being lived up to. The right fights to protect those same freedoms.   Both sides are closer than they think.

Thanks again Bob. You will always be a national treasure.

Ron

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 11:33 PM

Being the quintessential red blooded American comedic patriot was very good business for Bob Hope. He was the richest entertainer in the world.

To say that Bob Hope didn't financially benefit from his USO tours and status as the official US military sanctioned entertainer of the troops for decadeds, beggars belief. He had very good *financial* reasons for playing the patriotic entertainer.

As to his awards, he was never awarded, by either his peers or by critics, as an actor or a comedian. He was loaded down with humanitarian awards, service awards, a bunch of keys to cities, etc. But the honorary Oscar and Emmy were nods to his political power and clout, and his longevity. But there most certainly were not any awards ever given to Bob Hope for his talent. For a good reason.

I can appreciate that he died an icon. Sixty successful years in any business is something to be admired. But he isn't a sacred cow. Just a convenient pawn in the maudlin military nostalgia propaganda campaign. Just when the government needs it most too--when the war is going to hell in a hand basket. I'm sure Mr. Hope in heaven is enjoying the irony of his death deflecting the heat from the commander in chief.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Blackcatter
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 11:54 PM

Hope made me laugh. He made my dad laugh. He made my mom laugh. His specials on TV were always on in my home growing up, not because they were the best shows going, but because something interesting always happened and because it appeared that Hope was having a good time. That's what I try to do when I'm performing. And he's one of the persons I learned that from.

Oh - and for those who think he wasn't honored by his peers - he was also honored 5 times by the Academy Awards and the Guinness people consider him to be the most honored entertainer ever.

The blue clicky below will take you to the original words of Thanks For The Memory

Blackcatter's Bob Hope TV Theme Page

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Cluin
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 11:59 PM

Goodbye, Mr I-Wanna-Tell-Ya. Thanks for the laughs.

I still love the "Road" movies.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 12:00 AM

By the way: Did you know that the song "Buttons and Bows" can be played on the piano using just the black keys. This means that the song is in the "pentonic scale". (five note scale). As I said, just rise above it! Bob

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 12:04 AM

Guest- Of course Hope was rich, but the money did not come directly from his U.S.O. tours.   He was a good businessman and made many investments and real estate deals. His contract with NBC alone was huge. He did not need to make money from the U.S.O. and put his life in danger.

Guest, it may be hard for you to imagine this, but Bob Hope did not earn blood money for his support of the troops. I can understand that you see a consipiracy in every action, but sometimes you are wrong.   You have every right to be a pessimist and see that the glass is half full, but do you have to say the glass is dirty too?

Please back up your statement with some facts.

Nobody is making Bob Hope into a sacred cow. He had his flaws like the rest of us. However, at this time many of us choose to remember and thank him for the good that he did.   You may fail to see that and you are entitled to voice your opinion, but please use facts not just statements you choose to make up - especially when you are too much of a coward to appear in public without a sheet over your head.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 12:28 AM

I'd like to comment on another aspect of Bob Hope's life that I don't think has been addressed yet. He was ONE HUNDRED YEARS OLD! Can you, or any of us possibly begin to understand the social mores and changes that he survived? My wonderful Father died last year at the age of 94. He and I spent wonderful hours (years) speaking to the changes in our society within his lifetime. Consider what America was like in 1903. What was common? What was acceptable? What was expected? Think for a minute, what changes Bob Hope had to endure. What accepted and encouraged behaviors did he have to unlearn as society changed and grew. It ain't easy folks, living through one hundred years of American social changes. Hells bells, it ain't even easy just living one hundred years! As I read these pipsqueeks thoughts, I well remember something I witnessed my Father say. One time, while we were in line at fast food place, my Father proudly announced to me, and everyone else within the the room, that he had just received his 'senior citizen discount card.' An upstart 16 year old child in line turned to my Father and said: "Jeeze, Mister. You sure are old." My Father did'nt even bat an eye or miss a beat. He just looked at the kid and said: "Keep that up kid, and you won't live to be half my age!"

So, when I read these kind of pipsqueek comments from kritters that are probalaby not even one fourth of Bob Hope's age, I just yawn and say ... "rise above it." CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 01:05 AM

For sources, there are plenty of biographies of Hope, and not all of them are testimonials to the man's greatness. For instance, "The Secret Life of Bob Hope" by Arthur Marx (Groucho's son and one of Hope's long line of writers) is more critical biography than not.

Hope has been something of a sacred cow in American life because of his career as an official government entertainer for the military, and because his wealth and political influence as a golf partner of presidents, once made him one of the most powerful men in Hollywood.

But just like the true story eventually came out on Bing Crosby after his death, we'll hear soon enough about the real Bob Hope--and it won't be the pretty patriotic picture being painted to memorialize him today.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: alanabit
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 03:47 AM

I found him funny at times and would want to celebrate his life. No I didn't like his politics. The same same can be said for Jimmy Stewart. I think that at the moment though, I would want to concentrate on the things I liked about the man. When Jimmy Stewart died, I preferred to recall his work for conservation and his enormous courage and commitment during World War II. (He flew combat missions when he could easily have ducked out of it - and never made a big thing of it. That raised him several notches above some of the snivelling creeps of the MacCarthy era for me).
Crosby's politics were not mine, but I view politics as part of the man and not the whole man - which is essentially what Ron Olesko, Don Firth and Deckman are saying here. (I know you will correct me if I'm wrong!) "The evil that men do lives after them/The good is often interred in their bones". To our hooded guest, I can only say that is our choice. There are lots of things which I would prefer folks to overlook when I pass on. I'll remember Bob Hope for his courage, talent and essential decency.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 04:14 AM

Deckman, I hate to be pedantic just as much as I dislike introducing thread creep, but I don't think "Buttons and Bows" can be played on the black keys.

"............rings and things and buttons and bows ......"

There is a semitone difference between "butt...." and ....tons" when you sing "buttons" in that line, therefore it could not be played on the black keys and isn't really a pentatonic melody.

That apart, your contributions to this thread are magnificent.

Murray

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 05:19 AM

No awards? no honours? - Over 2000 of them in his lifetime according to the BBC. He brought happiness and laughter to a great many people throughout his lifetime, raised billions for charity, while still working and long after an age when most have retired.

Rest in peace, 100 - a great innings for a great entertainer.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 06:02 AM

Murray ... You are quite correct, of course. You don't suppose that those odd notes were "accidental?" I mean this comment in good humor. After all, we are speaking about a person who was a magnificent humorist. Another telling part of Bob Hopes life is echoed in this thread: look where these postings are coming from ... ALL AROUND THE WORLD! Quite a wonderful story, all in all. CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 07:12 AM

"...There is only one side making the personal attacks.." GUEST, pdq)

That, I'm afraid, is cobblers. There have been inumerable, and sometimes very vicious, "personal attacks" directed at Mudcatters (and others) who come across as left of centre (a "centre" which in a lot of cases is itself what would be seen in most countries as fairly right-wing). We'd be better off without that kind of stuff, whichever direction it's aimed at.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 08:48 AM

Bob Hope had many awards. But Bob Hope never received any awards for *acting*. Bob Hope never received any awards for *comedy*. He received honorary "lifetime achievement" types of awards. Public service awards. But he never received an award for his professions of actor and comedian.

Sheesh, read what is written people. This is the third time I've explained this.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Fiolar
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 09:11 AM

To quote Michael Collins when a colleague criticised DeValera - "If you can't say anything good about him, say nothing."

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 09:14 AM

And to quote from Dorothy Parker, "If you can't say anything nice about someone, come sit by me."

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 09:25 AM

Or as Thumper's father put it - "If You Can't Say Nothin' Nice, Then Don't Say Nothin' At All" (Bambi's mate Thumper, that is.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 09:29 AM

Personally I think a public service award is much more rewarding. Anyone can buy an acting award. It is much more significant that he received honors from around the globe for his actions. That will leave a mark that will last long after his films have turned to dust.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 02:40 PM

Read todays New York Times Arts Page.
Giok

click here and enter "Mudcat5" for user name plus "mudcatter" for the password, if you don't want to sign up for access.
- joe clone -

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 10:09 PM

I did not think he was funny. Ever. But I also didn't get "Best In Show" or "A Mighty Wind". Not my politics, I think.

Anyway, RIP, Bob. After 100 years you deserve to.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 12:45 AM

Mudcat & 'mudcatter' did not work

Sorry, should have read: click here and enter "Mudcat5" for user name plus "mudcatter" for the password, if you don't want to sign up for access.
- joe clone -

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Blackcatter
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 12:59 AM

Just exactly which (or what) comedy award was there to be won until the 1980s? I can't remember any, which means Hope was in the best of company along with Groucho, Ceasar, Brooks, Berle, Burns, Ball, Bruce, Cosby, Carlin, et al.

Once again the pointlessness of a GUEST comment is apparent.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 01:17 AM

Somewhere there is a copy of an old radio show, an "Hour of Stars" kinda' thing. Goucho and Hope were on together and Hope dropped his script. Groucho then stepped on it and threw his own to the floor. The result was 5 minutes of the biggest laughs ever gotten on radio. Hope couldn't really hang with Groucho (but damn few could) but he knew how to keep setting him up. The Grouch later said it was his favorite performance on radio.

For those of you finding fault with him......well damn folks, he was born in England and grew up in Cleveland....What the hell do you expect? (Spaw now runs like hell and ducks for cover)

Bye Bob......

Spaw

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 01:32 AM

The Library of Congress has a LOT of Hope memorabilia online: click.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: mooman
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 04:10 AM

A good innings....

May he R.I.P.

moo

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 09:09 AM

In his biograpy of Bob Hope, Groucho's son says that the Groucho didn't think much of Hope as a comedian, as he couldn't improvise, never wrote his own stuff, and as a person off stage really wasn't funny (he is said to have been rather dour, in fact). But Groucho felt he was a good intepreter of what other people wrote for him. And I heard Dick Cavett pay him the supreme compliment to every comedian--that he had wonderful diction.

Odd isn't it, how the people who worked with him in comedy didn't comment on how funny they thought he was? And that was 53 leading acting roles in films Hope had, and not one award for acting.

But he sure was shrewd enough to know how to turn a buck, elbow his way into the circles of the ruling elite (remember, he WAS English), exploit situations and people to his own advantage, and make it onto the Forbes Rich List. Ya gotta love him for that!

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 09:30 AM

Guest- Why do you continue to make things up? You write sentences without any facts to back them. I guess in the tarpaper shack where you are writing from it sounds pretty good, but to the rest of us in the real world it sounds as if you are the one with some severe problems.

Sounds like jealousy on your part if you are stretching to find fault with the man. Forbes Rich List?   So what is wrong with that?   The man built hospitals, theaters and did more philanthropic work than you will ever do - money or no money.

To use Dick Cavett as a barometer for what is funny is like using Colonel Sanders as an authority on gourmet cooking. Also, if you use anything that Arthur Marx wrote as the definitive source, you should look again. His track record and research skills are questionable to say the least. If you really read the comments you will find numerous compliments from other comedians including Woody Allen who basically gave Hope credit for his entire career.

You fault him for not writing his own stuff? I guess you have little respect for someone like Laurence Olivier since some guy name Shakespeare wrote his best material. Where is it written that a comedian has to write their own material? You would be surprised at how many comics have help.

Bob Hope was far from the funniest comedian and the majority of his films. He was not a saint. He does deserve respect and recognition for his work. Your snide comments do little to make a mark since you are too much of a coward to even use a name. I can point you to REAL comments that go against every comment you make. Do some real research before you post next time.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: RangerSteve
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 10:33 AM

Sometimes, when I watch movies today that I thought were hilarious as a kid, I end up wondering what I thought was so funny. I don't know if I could watch "Paris Holiday" or "Fancy Pants" today and laugh the way I did when they first came out, but Mr. Hope made me laugh hysterically years ago, and I thank him for that.

As for the few folks who seem to be ready to get up and dance with joy over Hope's death, you have the right to say what you feel, but it's also perfectly okay to keep your thoughts to yourself. Were you with that "religious" group at Matthew Sheppard's funeral chanting "God Hates Queers"? Probably not, because that would be tasteless. But if a guy's politics or humor isn't to your taste, rejoicing isn't tasteless, it's actually perfectly justifiable.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: RangerSteve
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 10:36 AM

I meant to add to the above: Don Firth, thanks for the "horses ass" comment. I always appreciate when someone can start my day with a good laugh.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 10:56 AM

Mudcat went through this same self-righteously indignant row of "how dare they besmirch the fallen hero like this..." when the Queen Mother died too, remember?

Look, no one here even knew Bob Hope or the Queen Mother. Both lived well beyond the norm because of their wealth and the good health it bought them (and of course, their healthy genes obviously contributed). These were figures that were both loathed and loved. There should be room for both here, but those with a tendency towards beatification of the recently deceased will always have a problem with ANY of the loathers making an appearance.

I, and nearly all people who post here (in my experience) do make distinctions as to what is and isn't appropriate with the obituary threads. In some of the obituary threads, where people actually knew the deceased, I would never dream of saying a bad word. That would be tasteless. But when it comes to the cult of celebrity, royal or otherwise, where no one in this circle of people knew the celebrity in question, those standards just don't apply.

Celebrity worship is a strange phenomenen, and the death of a celebrity announced in an obituary thread here is in no way equatable to the authentic, genuine grief and mourning expressed in obituary threads where the deceased is a member of this music community, or friends or relatives of the posters. With the celebrity obituary, people usually either loved or loathed the celebrity, and say so. No one should have a problem with that, as all that is being expressed is people's opinions of the celebrity. If you are one of the one's who loved the celebrity, you aren't going to like what the loathers say about them. But eventually, with the tendency of every celebrity death trumpeted by mainstream media to land in a Mudcat obituary thread, we all will have to suffer through the threads where our beloved celebrity gets slammed by those who loathed them.

So what? It ain't like the loathers and standing up in church, and screaming expletives in middle of the eulogy at your mother's funeral. This is the internet, remember?

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Blackcatter
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 11:10 AM

We're not worshipping the guy.

We're just reflecting on the FACT that he brought enjoyment to many of us and a hell of a lot of other people.

GUEST - you lie and miss represent. Calling a spade a spade is ok, but calling a spade a club is stupid.

Go grind your axe up you ass.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 11:15 AM

Guest at 10:56.   You make some good points, but I think you are missing one critical point.   I don't think this is a case of celebrity worship where people won't accept criticisms.   This is a case where some people are just spouting made up or erroneous statements. That is different than expressing an opinion.   When someone posts a note that people who worked with Hope failed to say how funny he was - that is plain wrong. There are tons of comments to the contrary and if that guest would open up his or her eyes they would have found them. Instead they made a statement, not claiming it to be their opinion, but stating it as if it were fact. If a newspaper, TV or radio reporter did that we would be all over them. Instead, because it is the "internet", some people think that those rules don't apply.   Wrong.

The other statement you made, that no one here knew Bob Hope COULD also be wrong. You can't make that assumption. I did not know him, but I do know people that did. (I've worked in television production for 23 years.)   The stories I've heard do not make him out to be the bully that some people make him out to be. He understood the business and what was expected from each person. His control over his productions was not unusual and merely the mark of a man who knew his craft.

Your note does point out something. While there area people who do not like to see their idols with feet of clay, there are others who refuse to see anything good about someone they don't like. You will never convince these people to see that someone may have been genuine in their committment and actually did good. The glass is always either half empty or half full but rarely do people realize it is just a glass of water.

Ron

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 11:24 AM

Bob Hope's glory days were a bit before my time. I didn't become much aware of him until the later 60's, and I was repelled by his political stance. Accordingly, I did not find him funny in the least. It's kind of comparable to how I came to feel about Al Capp (although he was definitely a good cartoonist, and Li'l Abner could be quite enjoyable when it wasn't political).

So you could say I'm prejudiced against Bob Hope, and you'd be right. Due to this prejudice I have remained largely ignorant of whatever worthwhile contributions he made to the art of humour. After all, when I go to the video store I'm not going to pick out a Bob Hope movie to watch, am I?

Oh, well. I guess Bob Hope was prejudiced against leftist antiwar people and it created that old karmic backlash in return. That's the way it goes.

Anyway, he must have been a tenacious old guy, because not too many people live to 100. I hope he enjoyed his remarkable life to the fullest, but I'd still like to throw a pie in his face over the political stuff. Politics is like that, I'm afraid. It gets in the way of positive relating to people.

- LH

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 11:34 AM

Yah, and with all the English posters here, someone here might be related to the Queen Mum. Right.

Why not give it a rest, boys? This is an obit thread about a 100 year old celeb who made many a friend, and many an enemy, and had many defenders and detractors, some of whom showed up here to say their bit, whether "provable" or not.

If you found him funny, fine. If not, fine. There is no need to use the person (me) who's opinion/personality/habit of posting anonymously you don't like, as yet another excuse for starting a tiresome "kill the anon guest" flame war. I know, it's the doldrums of summer, and you are bored, and haven't had your quota of anon guest fresh meat of late.

Yawn.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 11:48 AM

Ahhh... persecution complex now. Turning the discussion around so tht you will look like the victim. Still avoiding the facts. Interesting.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 12:03 PM

Oh stop your whining Ron. Facts and personal opinions aren't equatable, and you bloody well know it. The very idea that you are demanding someone "prove" their opinion is silly and petulant. Your intense dislike of me personally, gets triggered nearly every time I appear to express a negative opinion. Your dislike of me has turned you into one of the Mudcat vendetta men. This isn't about you being well reasoned, it is about you wanting to have at me, for bloodsport. That doesn't make me a victim at all, buddy. But it does make you a man with an personal ax to grind here.

Why not do what truly reasonable people do when someone they dislike as intensely as you dislike me, comes into their presence--and ignore me, instead of always trying to pick a fight? Had you been able to restrain that reply trigger finger of yours when you saw me posting here, we could all still be merrily saying wonderful and nasty things about the deceased.

Like I said, give the "flame the guest" crap a rest. Your intemperate obsession with flaming me is getting the better of you.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: jeffp
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 12:29 PM

There you go again, proving Ron's point.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 12:35 PM

GUEST, who did you say was being silly and petulant? Jeez! Get a life!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Blackcatter
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 12:44 PM

GUEST - just leave - no one here apears to appreciate your comments. You are also boring and redundant. I've been part of Mudcat for 4 years and entities like you come and go while the rest of us continue to stay on and enjoy the discussions.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 01:06 PM

That makes 4 flame mongerers in the Mudcat "flame the anon guest" game. Ah well, the dog days of summer is when the flame warriors love to fire up their flame throwers for a little mindless gladiator-style entertainment.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 01:15 PM

Boo hoo hoo.   I feel so sorry.   What a persecution complex you have!

So you still expect to make blind statements and all of us to regard them as fact? What superiority you must feel!! When we challenge you, you cry "foul" and instead of discussing our points you choose to fight back at us. Poor victim.

Ax to grind?   Each time I've posted I've responded to a comment you made. Now I am out to get you? Please. Are you hearing voices too?

I do not "dislike" you. I have no admiration for your cowardice and blatant lieing which you call your "opinion" (check a dictionary, there is a huge difference.) Each of your posts show you falling deeper and deeper into your own rage - a cornered rat who is now clawing at anything to get out.   You can't simply admit you were wrong in your posts.   

"Flame the anon guest". What a rallying cry.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: Deckman
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 01:27 PM

Did I ever tell you about the time I rode in an elevator with Bing Crosby and Phil Harris? True story ... it was 1956, at the Olympic hotel, in seattle, and ..... Oh, never mind! Bob

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 01:28 PM

OK Ron, in the interest of peace, I was completely wrong about everything I said about Bob Hope. I apologize for infuriating those of you whom I infuriated, for whatever reason. I want this argument to end, here and now.

So how about a truce, fellas--whaddya say?

Subject: RE: Obit: Bob Hope dies at 100
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 01:31 PM

you could have ended the argument at any point earlier.