BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 07:28 PM

H1N1 is a subtype of Influenza A virus, not a unique entity.
H and N indicate surface proteins hemagglutinin 1 and neuraminidase 1, respectively.

H1N1 is the subtype to which the viruses of Spanish Flu and Swine Flu belong, but there are many members of this subtype; they are not the same. The specific virus causing the present outbreak is unique and new; it differs from others of the same subtype, some of which are virulent and some of which do not cause any serious problems in humans.

Several articles on this may be found through google.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 09:29 PM

Q - What kind of flu was the 1918 virus? I've seen it called "Spanish Flu," but is it linked to current strands? Does the current type trace back to it?

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 09:42 PM

Search for "Spanish Influenza" and you'll find several articles and reports on the reconstituted genome. Yes, it is in the same "family". No, it most assuredly is NOT the 1918 flu. (Donuel, I never said it was. I just object to people saying "never seen before" when referring to a fairly common Type A, H1N1, virus. There ARE new things inside in the arrangement of amino acids -- but to say that an AH1N1 virus has "never been seen before" is like saying that a "red book" has never been seen before.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 09:45 PM

French Troops encountered infected geese. English troops then caught it and it spread in hospitals and returning troop ships like wild fire.

It was an Avian h1n1 of which many strains can occur.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 10:04 PM

1997: Hong Kong: H5N1 (Avian)
2003: Hong Kong: H5N1
2003: Netherlands: H7N7 (Avian, also infected pigs)
1968: Hong Kong Flu: H3N2 (unknown)
1957: Asian Flue: H2N2 (unknown, probably swine)
1918: Spanish Flu: H1N1 (pigs)

"Epidemiological evidence suggests that a new influenza virus originated in Haskell County, Kansas, early in 1918. Evidence further suggests that this virus traveled east across the state to a huge army base [Camp Funston, part of Fort Riley], and from there to Europe. Later it began its sweep through North America, through Europe, through South America, through Asia and Africa...The evidence comes from Dr. Loring Miner."

All taken from John M. Barry, The Great Influenza (Penguin Books: 2004, 2005), p.92 et al.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 10:08 PM

Maybe the old testament had a good idea about keeping kosher

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 10:35 PM

So, I googled Rumsfeld and the charges against him and visited many URLs. (In the process I learned where a certain Mudcatter gets a lot of his information! A lot of bloggers out there.) Not surprisingly, given Rumsfeld's tenure as the CEO of the company that discovered the drug, it is true that he owns a lot of Tamiflu stock but no evidence - AT ALL - that he has any kind of control or input as to the distribution of said product. He hasn't worked for them since 2001.

It isn't illegal or even suggestive of any wrongdoing to own stock.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 11:00 PM

Fiction- Swine flu from pork.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 11:34 PM

The Center of Disease Control, has now gone to level 4 pandemic precautions

The Center of What Some Guy Said, has gone to level 9 where rabid dragons are now laying eggs in the hearts of haples victims in Arizona and New Mexico. Some guy said everyone in Texas is now dead.



Ebbie if you can point out to me where some guy said Donald Rumsfeld planned the outbreak for profit fine. The Federal Goverment has distribution rights for a certain amount of medicine if it becomes needed. No there isn't enough tamiflu for everyone but not everyone ever gets the flu. There should be no killer dragon Titanic scenarios in our future.

For me Donald Rumsfeld is equivalent to a Nazi war criminal. Not a full fledged Georing but on the level of an assitant to Muller.
I do not like to see war criminals make a friggin fortune off disease.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 12:46 AM

"I do not like to see war criminals make a friggin fortune off disease. "

Good god. How do you plan to keep it from happening? There are a lot of them out there- and some of them a good deal worse than Rumsfeld.

As for me, I hope to save my energies for something I can do something about.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 04:28 AM

The only possibly helpful comments I can offer here are:

1. The old standby re flu - keep your hands clean.

2. The "newly found" report that flu spreads best in very dry conditions. A remarkable, if somewhat puzzling, part of this report is that only the absolute humidity seems to have an effect, so high relative humidity is not required.

So the old advice to "wash frequently" gets the associated advice to "sweat profusely."

Anyone want to pass the chile peppers? I'm too old to work up a sweat the old-fashioned way.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Little Robyn
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 09:04 AM

OK, so it's now officially here in NZ - a group of school kids who have just returned from a trip to Mexico have been positively diagnosed.
ARGHHHH!
Beam me up Scotty!
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 09:25 AM

1. Wash your hands thoroughly after touching anything.

2. Don't touch your nose, mouth, eyes, the nose or mouth or eyes of others, your private parts or the private parts of others. If you absolutely must touch any of these get someone else to do it.

3. Where a face mask at all times: at home, at work, at the store, in the bank.

4. Never breathe air that may have been exhaled by a flu victim, no matter how distant.

Follow these simple rules and you might not get sick.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: number 6
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 09:37 AM

Thanks for the advice Rap !!

I'll definately follow these through and through.

Hey Ebbie ... I'm beginning to think that maybe you have the hots for old rusty Rummy    ;)


biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 10:48 AM

And I'm beginning to think that men - real men, mind - don't have brains.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: number 6
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 10:52 AM

goof one ebbie ... LOL !

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 11:17 AM

:)

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 11:54 AM

Hakman I planned to roast you roundly for the rather obscene profit you intend to make off the argument that the disease was arranged or planned by the likes of the Donald.

Then I left on the AM band of my big radio last night and heard Alex Jones making the same argument, so I know where you got it from.

Meanwhile the 9/11 bombing has yet to be firmly resolved:

9_11 conspiracy debate

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: number 6
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 12:00 PM

interesting article here in the CBC

swine flu ground zero ??

whether this is, or not ground zero something has to be said about these corporate hog (or even beef, chicken) farms. They are one of the reasons I'm a vegetarian.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 01:02 PM

Israel's deputy minister for Public Health, Jakow Litzman, an orthodox Jew, has said that the name Swine flu is an insult and affront both to Muslims and Jews since in their religions the swine is considered impure. "We shall call it Mexican flu" he said.

My god (figure of speech), some of the religionists are really extremely easily insulted. The PC word is now New flu, I have read.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 01:38 PM

One has to wonder why he would think a strain of the flu would need to be "pure."

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 01:38 PM

I have read a bit about the history of the Spanish Flu that killed up to 50,000,000 people from 1918 to 1920, three times more than had died in the 4 years of the Great War. The end of the war contributed to the outbreak of the flu. For instance, there was no Spanish flu in New Zealand before the troops came back.

And also the paranoia that is evident in the first post is nothing new. In 1918, you may easily guess who was blamed for the outbreak of the flu among Allied soldiers, Germany and biological warfare, of course. In fact, we now know that the flu had come over with the US soldiers arriving in the Europe theater in 1917. Now and then the human wish that someone has to be blamed for starting the flu with an ill purpose is overwhelming to some.

Why was the Spanish flu called "Spanish" then when it neither originated in Spain nor its first European outbreak was there. That also has to do with the war. The outbreak of a flu killing soldiers quicker than enemy guns did was a great worry to the generals. I have read facsimiles from German generals ordering that this cause of death should under no condition be giving when informing the next of kin. Inflating thereby BTW the number of war dead. Similarly, at home, all news about the flu were censored for the reason to keep the power and will to fight alive.

Spain was the largest European nations then that did not take part in the war. It then was the only large European nation without military censorship. So when the flu arrived in Spain some months later, the Spanish could read about the flu. So, so the first European flu victims were soldiers, most likely in France, the first reports about the flu came from Spain.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 02:02 PM

Wolfgang, good to read from you, I was just thinking this morning I hadn't noticed you in any posts of late.

I heard the same tale of "Spanish Influenza" this morning on (US) National Public Radio.

A couple of years ago I read "The Great Influenza" by Barry which indicated that the origin of the great flu was, uncharacteristically, The United States.

In the book "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Rhodes the tale is told of Leo Szilard being prepared to be thrown into one of the last stages of WWI only he took ill with The Flu, and not trusting army doctors and having the personal means, he got himself to a civilian hospital. The rest of his mates were sent to the front and none came back. Fourteen years later he was to conceive the idea of a nuclear chain reaction.

There is plenty of paranoia about the current flu being 'manufactured'. Ultimately I think this can be disproved, (or proved), but in the meantime the internet and various shady motivations can spread fear and rumor well ahead of facts. Plus it is cheap entertainment.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 03:33 PM

So far, the strain of the virus that has traveled outside of Mexico is mild. We may be lucky; a serious mutation may not occur.

The present guess is that the virus developed in the vicinity of Vera Cruz.
Why Mexican deaths? Probably be some months before this becomes known. Are they confined to certain groups? Did the strain evolve and lose virulence? Wait and see.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 03:43 PM

California Health people are saying that there MIGHT be two deaths there. They're testing to find out.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 04:30 PM

And the source of the infection seems to be a small down in Mexico downwind from a Smithfield Ham plant - the same company that lost its battle against its employees who wanted to investigate unionizing and paid hefty fines for hiring and abusing illegal aliens and paid hefty fines for dumping pig shit into Virginia rivers. Nice corporate philosophy...

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 04:55 PM

The virus seems to be deadlier in Mexico.

Do the people who carry the infection out of Mexico mainly travel by air? I'm thinking is there something in the conditions on board a plane that affect the virus and make it less dangerous, humidity levels, lower air pressure in flight etc.

Just wondering based on the reports in the news.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: number 6
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 05:19 PM

"And the source of the infection seems to be a small down in Mexico downwind from a Smithfield Ham plant "

for info regarding this see my post above (Date: 28 Apr 09 - 12:00 PM ) with a CBC link.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 05:22 PM

INSIDE INFO A+ reliable

The NIH has a lab that already has a type A swine flu vaccine. It is not yet incubated for mass innoculations nor has it been trial tested for the normal 2 years. What is interesting is that they may plan to waive the trial period and hope for the best.
This is good news because 3 months from now there will be an rising spike in the number of cases as suggested by computer modeling. The vaccine, if safe*, will help the people who have not contrated the flu.

+++++++++++++

My experiences with Swine Flu were both scary and unpleasant.
The first one gave me such stomach distress that it ranks as the worst in my life.
The second time was in the Ford administration when I took the tainted vaccine* and got a very minor case of Petite Barr syndrome that caused a very brief paralysis...but I didn't get the flu either.





for robo the self appointed editor of select out of context sentences
.______________________________________

The only place I heard about Don Rumsfeld being linked to Tamiflu was on the Diane Reems Show npr American University Radio Then I googled the first result.

I know Alex Jones and suspect he uses stimulants that are not good for him but as I mentioned in the initial post that if one brings up the subject of deliberate bio terrorism they leave themselves open to intense criticism. All I know for sure is that billions of dollars have gone into bio weapon technologies and many people have already died from the fruit of their labor.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 05:27 PM

There is a great documentary from PBS that traces the origin of the 1917 flu from the perspective of key individuals shose graves in England and France were part of clues that helped unravel the mystery of that great pandemic.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 05:41 PM

bILL

Surprisingly shutting airports does next to nothing to slow the spread of flu as shown by advanced computer modeling.

Using Tamiflu does slow the spread of pandemic flu so that it would take 6 months or more for it to spread compared to the same spread in 3 months without antivirals.

My experience with Tamiflu was great. Everyone in my family got the flu expect me. They already had the flu so Tamiflu was less effective on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: pdq
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 05:56 PM

For those who like a good conspiracy theory,
                                                                Alex Jones

Personal attack deleted
co-moderator

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 06:10 PM

Alex Jones- what garbage!

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: pdq
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 06:16 PM

Alex Jones is to journalism what Jim Jones was to Christianity.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 06:30 PM

Stop the persoanl attacks and robo nonsense!
My wife and our friends work for the Federal Health Research Center
(name changed to prevent defamation by ass holes here)

I can and will withhold pertaintent info if that is your purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 07:33 PM

There is no evidence that the Smithfield operation near La Gloria is the epicenter of the flu outbreak; no believable source makes that claim.

The Center for Disease Control is working to discover the place of origin,, along with other official agencies.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 07:43 PM

"Alex Jones is to journalism what Jim Jones was to Christianity."


               Jim Jones was exactly what Christianity is!

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 08:49 PM

John Stewart showed the CNN graphic of Canada painted bright red to signify 6 cases of flu. John S "I don't think shading 4 million sq. miles bright red is truely representative of 6 cases of flu, what would a Herpes outbreak look like , Blood spurting out of the wall and lava consuming the cameraman?" (expurgated G version)


KORRECTION

tHERE IS NO TRUTH TO THE RUMOR STARTED BY (WITH HELD) That the developing story on Riverside Drive is the result of a Giant man eating Chicken Heart OUTSIDE YOUR DOOR!




______________________________________________

Pending defamation legal action by robo Esquire I attest to the following:

I did not intend to impune any misdeeds to, or besmearch the reputation of the great patriotic American Donald Rumsfeld and in no way meant to suggest that any connection between his investment and employment as CEO at Scheer Pharm, the manufacturer of Tamiflu, and the natural outbreak of swine flu in North America which was actually caused by an unkosher Turkey BLT sandwhich outside Mexico City. The stature of such a great and loving American Donald Rumsfeld is an important and wonderful example to humanity worldwide and especially to Robo who withholds his name yet splashes other people's real name with impunity, hostility and disregard.

Korrection: ...and especially to Robo who has won 6 Purlitzer prizes for his outstanding secret Journalism.

Correction 6 Wurlitzer prizes for his outstanding leaflets.

Ebbie has settled out of court court for an undisclosed ______.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 09:32 PM

The Troll food below was gleaned from "How to behave on an Internet Forum"

Note to Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin:

No your dog will not get Swine flu.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 09:36 PM

With modern cable news networks there is no more need for these
1976 Swine flu proganda commercials

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 09:38 PM

fun with face masks in Mexico City

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 09:34 AM

Regretably a 20 month old child who died of flu in Texas, however the child was brought here from Mexico for treatment.
The mystery of seemingly more severe cases are exclusively from Mexico persists.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 01:29 PM

hakman-
keep up the good work!

Subject: WHO CDC NIH announcments
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 04:41 PM

The World Health Organization has just announced that the pandemic warning is now raised to level 5.

Key points

Level 5 means that all countries should now employ all their pandemic procedures.

As a brand new flu varient no one has immunity

It is still being investigated why affluent countries only have mild cases at this time and poor countries are experiencing severe disease.

The mild cases are no different from the normal seasonal flu which still infect millions and end the lives of nearly 32,000 people in the US alone.

IT is common for the flu virus to mutate as it propogates globaly.

Negotiations with manufactures of antivirals are ongoing to make more medicine.



...................

Admin if in your opinion a new thread is needed for new ongoing flu facts without the potentially valuable speculative insights which unfortunately lead to argumentative distraction as in this obit thread, please consider making the above announcment a new thread in which exclusively CDC WHO NIH HLS and HSS news flashes may be added for concise ongoing news.

The obit flu thread can be used for peroanl experiences?


PS
June to October will be a time period of most concern followed by another spike as much as one year from now due to mutations and the normal evolution of flu strains.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 11:08 PM

The entire 140+ school Fort Worth Independent School District is closing down through the end of next week because of confirmed cases in the southwest side of town. My son is in a different school district, one that abuts the side of town where the schools are closed. His school is open, but we will have to watch the news.

Fort Worth Star-Telegram story.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Alice
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 11:21 PM

I've had a sore, scratchy throat all day.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: Alice
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 11:22 PM

my post wasn't meant to make light of this.
I did stop shaking hands with all the people I meet to work with, esp yesterday the people in the Urgent Care center. As they told me, every flu strain in the country eventually makes it to Montana.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 12:58 AM

Good idea, Donuel. New thread for updates etc. is HERE.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 02:09 AM

I've a horrible feeling that the British government aren't taking this threat seriously enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 12:26 PM

by the way, C