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BS: Are you ashamed to be American?
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Subject: Are you ashamed to be American? From: GUEST,Janet Date: 16 Mar 02 - 07:15 PM After your own election debacle, you criticise the Zimbabwians for being undemocratic. You kill thousands of Afghanis in search of one man. Six months on, you still can't find him. You manage to convieniently push those dead people under the carpet, whilst spending more time arguing whether you should kill a mentally distured woman of your own. What next? I know, lets cause more misery in Iraq! Let's bomb the bastards to show that 'America is King' Good call! I really dispair Janet
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: gnu Date: 16 Mar 02 - 07:20 PM |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: michaelr Date: 16 Mar 02 - 07:23 PM Haill no, Ahm mighty proud to be a Murrican! Greatest cuntry in the woild, dontcha know? You must be a furriner. *BG* Michael |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: InOBU Date: 16 Mar 02 - 07:30 PM Well, I am niether ashamed or proud. I work for change and hope you do in the nation you live in. Cheers Larry |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: InOBU Date: 16 Mar 02 - 07:30 PM PS sorry, in which you live... |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com Date: 16 Mar 02 - 07:37 PM No. I am very proud and also know that I am quite lucky. I think by and large we mean very well even though we don't always get it right. mg |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Mar 02 - 07:43 PM You're starting to sound like Paul McCartney, Larry! :-) GUEST, Janet - You raise some worthwhile points there, but you picked a pretty tactless thread title to start it off with. However, I'm sure it will attract attention to the subject...one way or another. Mah fellow Ay-Murricans...Ah would advise yew, as a Canadian brother livin' tew the North of yew, not to git all lathered up abowyt the tahtle o' this here thread. If'n y'all don't lose yer tempers, y'll danged well be a whole lot farther ahaid in the eynd than if'n y' dew. Now Ah hev beyen somewhut critical of the ol' US of A on more'n a few occasions, mahseylf, but Ah hev never suggested thet y'all should be ashamed of whut God and destiny has made yew. Take mah advice and stay cool. :-) - LH |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Banjer Date: 16 Mar 02 - 07:50 PM Now Ah hev beyen somewhut critical of the ol' US of A on more'n a few occasions, mahseylf Well spoke, there Mr Lil Hawk, living where you do and having the first hand experience that you have because of living there, gives you every right to compare to and be critical of us! **BG**> (meaning of course that everything you guys do wrong, we can do wronger, ifn' we set our mind to it) |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: GUEST,Janet Date: 16 Mar 02 - 07:50 PM Little Hawk, You say it all when you said that I "picked a pretty tactless thread title" I think that the self satisfaction of the USA is the scariest problem in the world today. Janet
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: John P Date: 16 Mar 02 - 07:57 PM Janet, You sound like you think we have chosen the direction our "elected" officials are taking. It's sort of like asking a redhead if she is ashamed because another redhead cut you off in traffic once. I agree with you about the extremely frightening direction this country is taking, but resent you blaming it on "Americans". Please blame the individuals responsible. John Peekstok |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Mar 02 - 07:57 PM Well, Janet, matter of fact I would pretty much agree with that assessment. So would some of my American friends. I guess you figure on beating the bushes a little, and seeing what flies out, eh? I basically like most Americans, I just don't like the government that stands on their backs and uses them. - LH |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Mickey191 Date: 16 Mar 02 - 08:02 PM We may make mistakes, but by and large, we are a good and generous people. What other country has spent billions to rebuild a country who attacked us one Sunday morning in 1941? We did the same for Germany and saved Europe from Hitler's domination. We've spent countless millions everytime a country has an earthquake or flood. Our citizens go the world over to aid people in trouble. Hell we even send our dogs. Dedicated scientists work for cures to help all of mankind. Dear Little Janet, what would you expect us to do after 9/11? Go blithely along our way with no retaliation, and just wait for the next onslaught? My Country & your Country(probably) are in fight to save civilization-whether you know it or not! Grow up. |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Bill D Date: 16 Mar 02 - 08:04 PM the "USA" doesn't have any satisfaction....self or otherwise. It is ALWAYS silly to describe a nation in broad terms when one is unhappy about the behavior of a few. NO country is perfect...the USA, however is one where serious good is done, and where most of the people want the right thing to be done. I note 'Janet' does not say where she is from and who is doing things better... and why is 'Janet' trolling a folk music group with broad accusations? |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: michaelr Date: 16 Mar 02 - 08:12 PM Well Janet, I agree that the smugness of the current administration is an ugly thing to behold from here: I can only imagine how bad it looks from abroad. Now I wasn't born American, AAMOF I'm not even a citizen (they don't let me vote, so don't blame me!) But I choose to live here for a number of reasons, some involving music, some climate (weather, not political), some personal. That does not mean I support the Bushies in their blustery posturing and "evil axis" twaddle. On the other hand, you mustn't forget that the U.S. was subject to a horrific attack which has left part of the population severely traumatized (after all, we're not used to that sort of thing). It's to be expected that people would have knee-jerk reactions. It's (only) been six months. I hope reason will prevail in time. Michael |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: InOBU Date: 16 Mar 02 - 08:32 PM Also, though of american origion, totalitarian capitolism is sperading and can be found in most nations which speak english as well as our guest Janet does... Larry |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: katlaughing Date: 16 Mar 02 - 08:37 PM Trolling the waters, again? |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: cyder_drinker Date: 16 Mar 02 - 08:44 PM 'GUEST Janet' (note the GUEST bit, ref. countless other threads) is trolling. Why the hell is anybody actually responding? I, for one, hope not to see this particular thread refreshed after this post. It's off topic for the 'cat, has no music content (or BS heading) and is a waste of bandwidth. Happy St Patrick's day, anyway. |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Mar 02 - 08:44 PM Ashamed? Of course not! We are proud to be the world's greatest user and waster of all resources, natural and otherwise and we do it because we can!!! We buy SUV's and Humm-V's to drive to work because we don't give a crap if the rest of the world can afford it or not because we can....so why not? We have a particular passion for sticking our nose into other countries simply because we can! I mean who the hell is gonna' stop us? We try to put a good front on things and show that what we're doing will benefit the rest of the world and of course it will unless you are one of those who disagree with us and don't want to share what you have with us. If that's your problem, we have a solution that I guess you don't like, but it's simple......We'll kick your fuckin' ass and destroy what pathetic economy you have so the rest of the world, and mainly the US, can do it our way......the right way.....the American way! And yeah, we've had about enough out of Iraq and all that too now that you mention it. Saddam keeps flaunting his dumbass in front of us and we've shown great restraint in not taking action so far. Now is the time to nuke the bastard and I think we might. We can easily send in an occupation force and take the oil from the Iraqis too after we decimate the rest of their country. That will solve all of our petroleum needs and do away with a pain in the ass to boot.....And what the fuck are you going to do about it? The rest of the Middle East will fall in line after that because they ain't got the power to stop us either. If we want it, we'll take it and "Bob's your Uncle." Don't think we'll forget that the Russians still have a few weapons and if they make any sabre rattling noises we'll lob one into the Men's Room in the Kremlin.....and again, whatcha' gonna' do....call a cop??? Listen fucker, we are the cops and we do a fine job of policing the world......Does it matter we ain't caught that skinny towelhead yet? Hell no because we took his power base and we'll continue to obliterate any country who even thinks about offering the jerk asylum. We will because we can....and whatcha' gonna' do? Feel better now Janet? Make sure you do because we can come for you too! General Fuckoff |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: cyder_drinker Date: 16 Mar 02 - 08:54 PM Amen, Spaw. |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: GUEST,A foreigner Date: 16 Mar 02 - 09:11 PM Janet, if you hate the way Western culture is, why don't you go and live in a place like Afganistan or Iraq? Believe me, you wouldn't last long there! When it comes down to it, when people are in trouble, Americans come to the rescue. Personally, I get sick of the slagging Americans take. The Europeans are happy to sit on their backsides and criticize but they'd get their arses kicked well and hard if it weren't for the Yanks breathing down the necks of enemies. Go study history, hen.
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Greg F. Date: 16 Mar 02 - 09:32 PM 'Spaw, thought you were gonna break into a few verses of Phil's "Cops of the World" there- one of the best lead-ins to that song I've heard in a long while! :>) Shame he couldn't have held on a while longer. There's plenty of work for him today! Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Mickey191 Date: 16 Mar 02 - 09:55 PM Some countries have a policy of killing baby girls and eating dogs.We spend our time & resources getting a 39cent kitten from a well. Spaw, You're suddenly in charge- how would you deal with the aftermath of 9/11? I await with great anticipation your solutions. |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Mar 02 - 10:00 PM Ah, Spaw, your sensitivy and restraint...it never fails to bring a tear to my eye and a warmth to my heart. LOL! :-) But it ain't gettin' you a free course at the WSSBA. No siree. We weren't born yesterday, eh? And if we ever see your boys comin' across the border to "rescue" Canada, don't blame me when those maple syrup canisters start comin' down around your ears! We've got Red Rose Tea in our water pistols and Resdan bombs stockpiled knee deep in our McGill porta-pottys. We've got trained suicide squads of moose and beaver waitin' fer ya in the wilderness areas, and Tim Horton's Donut catapults that'll knock yer flippin' SUV's right off the road. You've been warned, Yankee Doodle! - LH |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: GUEST,flora Date: 16 Mar 02 - 10:28 PM Dear oh dear.... when will people learn? If you're talking about nations, there is no 'them and us' - no Americans versus British, no Afghans versus Americans, no Russians versus Chechnens. There are people. People with widely differing points of view. Talking about 'Americans' as being ashamed is about as meaningful as saying, oh I don't know, all Americans like boiled eggs. Some Americans are 100% behind Bush, some are 100% against him, many are somewhere in the middle. The only them and us is 'the people of the world' versus 'the governments of the world' (or whatever the ruling power is). We have to learn to stop stereotyping - wars are easy if you can stereotype, and justify your actions by saying 'all Iraqis are....', 'all Germans are....', 'all Japanese are....', 'all Russians are...' (By the way - I'm not American, I deeply disagree with Bush's actions and will happily protest against against them, but I'm not so arrogant as to be sure that my point of view is the right one - it's simply the right one for me. Which is why I am glad to hear the differing points of view coming from Americans on this website. People are thinking about it, questioning it, and coming to a conclusion. Good.) |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: 53 Date: 16 Mar 02 - 11:19 PM Hell yes. |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: 53 Date: 16 Mar 02 - 11:20 PM I meant to say Hell no. Sorry about that I think I might be drunk. |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Gypsy Date: 16 Mar 02 - 11:22 PM Bless your heart, Flora. And, dear guest Janet, just how perfect are you to cast any stones? |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Blackcatter Date: 16 Mar 02 - 11:44 PM So good to see people are not responding to mindless trolls... Janet's probably Osama Bin Laden or someone else "scary" pax yall |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: JudyR Date: 16 Mar 02 - 11:49 PM I'm extremely proud to be an American. I am not the government. I didn't even vote for this adminstration. I love our independent spirits and our history and heritage -- and our folk traditions and music! I love our little towns, and the Mom and Pop stores (which are, unfortunately, disappearing), and the back roads, and our neighborliness (and I'm not even John Wayne!) And our music -- did I say that? Sorry, it's too late at night for me to get, tit for tat, into the whole political discussion (I've had a hard day on another forum, defending CLINTON, if you can believe that!) (Boy, his enemies sure never let up, do they? Felt like I was picking burrs off me every time I logged on!) Maybe I will tomorrow. Or maybe, as somebody said, this is a troll. Right now, I'm watching "Crossfire," one of the programs we have where everybody is allowed to say what they think. |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Bobert Date: 16 Mar 02 - 11:51 PM Danged... Born here, went to school here, played baseball here, made friends here, heck, my family lives here. Bought a house here so I gotta work here... well, don't gotta really but if I didn't live here, probably wouldn't have bought a house here. Nothing there to be ashamed of. And ya' can't blame the land either, 'cause it doesn't decide that 6 bucks and hour for a woman with three kids and a husband imprisoned for drugs, is a living wage... The real question is, "Are you, as a US American, ashamed of the policies of your government?" and Spawzer pretty much nuked that one a little while ago. |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: X Date: 17 Mar 02 - 12:01 AM I think my people should have pushed your people's boats back in the water in 1492. |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: JudyR Date: 17 Mar 02 - 12:17 AM By the way, the guest gave herself away, 'though she doesn't deign to admit where she she's from. In what country do people say "whilst?" Didn't study Child Ballads for nothing. |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: GUEST Date: 17 Mar 02 - 12:29 AM Well Janette, why don't you and your fellow kinsman finally own up and admit that you are GLAD 9/11 happened? Just stop the bullshit and say it out loud, " I'm Fucking Glad"!!! You're not fooling anybody anyway!! Kiss my ruby red American ass!!! Give us a call when the wolf knocks!! |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: The Pooka Date: 17 Mar 02 - 02:42 AM Guest Janet, 1. Certainly not. Proud; and (cautiously) hopeful about the future.
2. But perhaps you should, as you said at the outset, "despair". Well no, wait: never despair. But be very concerned. |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 17 Mar 02 - 02:56 AM I usually stay away from horseshit threads like this. Like the mighty Firesign Theater once said so succinctly, "just dig a big enough hole, and everyone will want to jump into it." Well, GUESTjanet did the digging and most everybody else did the jumping, except my man Pooka there. You win the Evel Kneivel Award for Hole-jumping, bro. Take a bow. |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: DMcG Date: 17 Mar 02 - 04:31 AM Guest,A foreigner writes: Janet, if you hate the way Western culture is, why don't you go and live in a place like Afganistan or Iraq? Believe me, you wouldn't last long there! I though Janet's complaint was precisely that the US is making it difficult for anyone to live in Afganistan! |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: GUEST,ivan Date: 17 Mar 02 - 07:23 AM Perhaps we shouldn't consider ourselves proud of our nationality in respect of what our "leaders" do. I'm happy to be british but I don't think that Blair represents my views but I have to live with that. I would imagine that many Americans are in a similar position with Bush. I was in a guitar shop yesterday and they had a pedal steel guitar. I really fancied a shot at it but hadn't a clue where to start. any hints? Let's get back to music - they're are other sites to discuss politics and Mudcat shouldn't get taken over by people who should discuss their views in a more appropriate forum. |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Tweed Date: 17 Mar 02 - 08:11 AM Guest Janet, my best friends and all my family are Americans and I'm surely not ashamed of any of 'em. You must've meant to ask if we were ashamed of the steaming piles of crap that worked their way into the US govt. lately who are toying with the idea of global nuclear war to avenge the terrorist's attacks. The only thing that Americans need to be ashamed of is that half of us didn't march on Washington and block the doors to the White House after the election, but I don't believe that it would have been logistically possible to do such a thing, so here we are. Am I sorry that slightly under half of the common people over here were fooled into voting for an oil barron's heir with no job skills? Yup! |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: van lingle Date: 17 Mar 02 - 10:19 AM No, I'm not ashamed to be an American, Janet. For me it's just a geographical description. And I do despair that while innocents are being murdered daily in Palestine our VP is over there trying to drum up support for even more carnage to secure our precious supply of petroleum. BTW, we are often encouraged by some to ignore "trollers" in this forum but it seems like, regardless of their motivations, they provoke some of the more interesting discussions. Just my opinion. Dave. PS Well said, Catspaw. |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Big John Date: 17 Mar 02 - 11:13 AM I am Irish and have spent all my life in Ireland and am proud of it. If I had gone to America to live I would be proud to be an American. Your wisdom in establishing the United States is at last being mirrored by us Europeans building the European Community in which the countries of Europe who in the last century fought bitter wars against each other have now come together for mutual benefit. Of course America is not perfect. What country is? Nevertheless, they saved Europe from German domination in two world wars and warded off the threat of a nuclear holocost during the Cold War. (Yes, I know the Americans invented the atomic bomb and I'm glad they got there first). I believe that religious fanaticism as it exists in the Middle East constitutes a serious threat to the rest of us. The atrocities of Sept. 11 caused the crisis in Afghanistan . I'm sorry that I can't suggest a solution to the problems so I'll just wish you all Happy St. Patrick's Day and now I'm heading off to the pub. I'm doing the "gig" in the Dead Man's Inn at Lucan tonight!!! |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Art Thieme Date: 17 Mar 02 - 11:18 AM Tweed has it in a nutshell. Art |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: GUEST Date: 17 Mar 02 - 11:56 AM I lost an uncle in NY on September 11th. I firmly believe that the ambivilance and indecisiveness of previous adminstrations emboldened the likes of Bin Laden and others. What I find frightening is the theme running through this forum that we have been cursed by the results of our last election. Whatever you may think about Mr Bush, I shudder to think what our response to 9/11 would have been with the alternative. I was so afraid on 9/11 that our response was going to be as tepid and pathetic as was our response to terrorism under Clinton, lob a couple cruise missles and wait for the results of the next poll, yeh that's leadership all right. We needed to send a frightening message that would last and I think we did. And I for one am not ashamed of it. In November when there was the whining about how we should lay-off during Ramadan I was sooo relieved we didn't get sucked into that nonsense. Here we are taking shots about the "mistreatment" of detainees in Cuba, page after page. Yet one of our soldiers is knocked out of a helicopter in Afghanistan, falls to the ground living, is captured by the Taliban fighters and shot on site. Where is the outcry for him? Was he not a prisoner? I have a lot of feeling about being an American. I can assure you that "ashamed" is not one of them B |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Margo Date: 17 Mar 02 - 12:12 PM Of course not!! |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: GUEST,Willie-O Date: 17 Mar 02 - 12:34 PM Well, of course I am not one (American) to start with, and how DARE you imply otherwise? No one should be ashamed of where they're from. What matters is where are you going? And how can you get there without destroying innocent lives? Willie-O |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: The Pooka Date: 17 Mar 02 - 12:34 PM Appreciate your kind Evel Kneivel Award there, Lonesome EJ. I also wanna thank my Pokey Mom, my Pooker Dad, & my Puckish Agent: the Axis of Evel. Although you didn't axe, lemme just add that we big invisible rabbits *have* to get good at navigating trollholes & foxy briarpatches: they can't see us, yknow. It's all up to our own translucent whiskers & lucky 4th-dimensional feet. While the Political Posts are often aggravating, I agree with some other members that they are by no means always unrelated to the Forum's raison d'etre (though admittedly I haven't found the chords for Guest Janet's yet). ("Still Crazy After All These Years"??) But I'm trying to work up a Grand Unification Theory for the occasional (periodic table of the?) *Science* threads, and the Music. This is risky, chiefly due to my profound ignorance of the subjects, "whilst" (as Guest J might say) surrounded by honest-to-God experts on both. But Pukkakneivel may yet ride his bunnykawasaki right down *that* ole black hole & nae more be seen again above the event horizon. (Awright, who yelled "Second the motion"? Too many wisearses in this Mud :) Well, a Happy St. Patrick's Day to all; and if ye should stumble into a hole, just remember the mystical celtical incantation: Erin Faugh Doon an' Go "Bragh!" |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Don Firth Date: 17 Mar 02 - 12:42 PM If I believe our government is in the wrong and that Bush is an idiot, I can say so, loud, clear, and frequently. I couldn't do that in a lot of countries. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Little Hawk Date: 17 Mar 02 - 01:26 PM Well, I'm happy enough to be a Canadian....still I am frequently disgusted with the actions (or lack of action) of both my national and my provincial governments. "Shame" is not the word that comes to mind, though...I don't take on other people's shame, just my own. I'm ashamed of sleeping in so late and procrastinating on things that should get done around here. I'm ashamed of spending so much time on the Internet. That about covers it for today. I will say this though...I spent a week in Cuba with about a dozen young Canadian students (I was one of the older people who went along to help)...and by the end of it we were all deeply affected by the contrast in front of us. There we saw people who had far, far less in a material sense than we do...and they were happier, less bored, more spontaneous, livelier, more mature, more idealistic, and more motivated than the vast majority of their peers in North America. You could say "they put us to shame", to use an expression. They weren't spoiled rotten with consumer goods and video crap like we are here. Their lives were a hundred per cent realer, and they were having a lot more fun too. Maybe some of us did feel a tad ashamed, I don't know if that's really the right word for it though. It was breathtaking and absolutely unforgettable. If you haven't had the experience, then you just don't know. It was one of those things where "you had to be there". - LH |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: Celtic Soul Date: 17 Mar 02 - 03:19 PM Ashamed? You speak as if each one of us somehow is responsible for the actions of our government... Where exactly do *you* live, and has *your* government always acted in the best interests of each and every individual living on planet earth? If not, are *you* ashamed?
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: toadfrog Date: 17 Mar 02 - 03:55 PM Let me ask you this, Janet: Aren't you ashamed to be a TROLL? |
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Subject: RE: Are you ashamed to be American? From: DougR Date: 17 Mar 02 - 03:58 PM Right on, Guest B. DougR |