BS: Vote to Impeach Bush

Subject: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 12:44 AM

This is a link to an organization that is led by Ramsey Clark, former U.S. attorney general and humanitarian. He wants these hoodlums to be held accountable and so do I. If you agree, go to the page and cast your vote. http://www.votetoimpeach.org

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Melani
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 01:00 AM

Thanks, Bruce.

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 01:02 AM

Thank you, Bruce. I saw someone with that website addy on their protest sign at the rally, today.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 08:45 AM

Hey, I thought I'd never vote for anything related to the knothead but hey...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: KarlMarx
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 08:54 AM

To hell with impeachment: the little pseudo-messiah should be hauled up in front of the War Crimes Tribunal at The Hague. Too bad that he doesn't probably know where The Hague is, though . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 09:12 AM

Sorry Bruce, but until he gets his hat blown, I can't go along with impeachment. Just as soon as he gets a blowjob, I'll sign.....Now that's an impeachable offense. Oh yeah, he has to lie about it too, but he should have no problem with that.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Dharmabum
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 09:16 AM

While you're at it.
Here's something else to consider.I saw this link on a protest sign yesterday.

http://www.votenowar.org.



      DB.

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: GUEST,Giddyupgo
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 09:39 AM

Now let me see. We had two embassies blown up, a ship and some other things shaped like a cigar during the Clinton watch. And oh yeah, the North Koreans accepted our freebies while they pursued their nuclear program under the guise of "Diplomacy". And there was that arms dealer that was pardoned in return for campaign money.

And During the Bush administration we have had one monstrous attack. Since then nothing. The Brutal dictatorship of the Taliban has been deposed in Afghanistan and Bush is trying to do the same in Iraq.

Looks to me like he is doing a lot better than Clinton did.

I will commend Clinton engineering the ousting of Slobodan Milosevic. He left it to the military and they did a superb job.

Why don't these protesters should immigrate to Iraq and start an impeach Saddam movement.

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: boglion
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 09:44 AM

I'm afraid the ball's in your court, Guest. If you're so keen to kill Saddam get over there and do it yourself. Don't involve hundreds of thousands of innocent soldiers and millions of civilians.

Go for it Giddyupgo.

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: GUEST,Giddyupgo
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 09:54 AM

big lion

We have a government to do it. I think we should shut up and let the government do it's job.

If you had your choice of countries to live in, which would you choose and why?

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: KarlMarx
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 09:54 AM

Obviously some people find fellatio in the Oval Office (and granted, lying about it) to be more egregious than the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Frankham
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 09:55 AM

The Taliban is very much alive. They are still active in Afghanistan and in Pakistan. Our guest is very naive.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Tweed
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 09:56 AM

Impeach him? Heck yes. Drag the whole lot out and stone them in the streets! They've said they would use the nukes and for that utterance they should step down.

Tweed

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 10:12 AM

Ya got me buddy! I'm there!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Alice
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 10:49 AM

So then... Dick Cheney obviously in the driver's seat? I can't see that impeachment would make any difference now. It would be business as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Tweed
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 10:56 AM

Alice,
Go and check it out, they're calling for the whole bunch of them to pack it up and go!
http://www.votetoimpeach.org/

Yerz,
Tweed

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: KarlMarx
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 11:01 AM

"Dick" Cheney is already in the driver's seat - with Boy George comfortably ensconced on his lap, with a huge grin on his face . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 11:05 AM

What an obscene image! Charlie McCarthy child porn!! Politics as usual....

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Alice
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 11:14 AM

Yes, that is why I wrote "obviously" in the driver's seat. Right now it is not obvious to some people how much power Cheney has.

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: GUEST,Gern
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 11:15 AM

I would, with pleasure. Guest drags out the same old horseshit about protest and patriotism and love-it-or-leave-it drivel that nearly prevented us from stopping the last war. Forget grudges about Clinton's treatment, which was self-inflicted, and focus on today's crises: war against civil liberties, tax cushions for the rich, opportunistic and nebulous 'wars' against select dictators and terrorists. The Justice Department is scheming further assaults against our privacy and long-standing legal procedure, under the banner of security. Hitler hid under that same banner. Our Secretary of Defense openly ponders the effect of nuclear weapons on Iraqi cities, and we wonder why people around the world perceive us as the greatest threat to peace. I resent the fact that the actions of criminals like Cheney and Rumsfield can kill in my name and at my expense. Thank you, protestors, for finding the courage to speak out.

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: KarlMarx
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 11:17 AM

Here's an even more disgusting image: Boy George is Dick Cheney's hand puppet - sort of like Lambchop . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 12:12 PM

I suspect the reins of power go much deeper than Cheney...he is the front man, and a leading player, but 'policy' is being funneled in from names we barely recognize.

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: KarlMarx
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 12:31 PM

Yeah: like Karl Rove, "God's man in the White House." Wayne Madsen calls him America's Joseph Goebbels . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Tweed
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 01:46 PM

An interesting article on this Karl Rove feller.
Fairly lengthy, but a good read and enlightening on the policy of no policy.

Tweed


--- Link fixed. ---
---Jeff (PA)---

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: KarlMarx
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 01:50 PM

A good, but scary book is "Bush's Brain: How Karl Rove Made George W. Bush Presidential," by James C. Moore and Wayne Slater. Talk about the power behind the outhouse throne . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 01:52 PM

Tweed, where's that link supposed to go?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Tweed
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 01:57 PM

Dang!! Here it is again....sorry about that Amos. Iz an idiot..
Ron Suskind article on Karl Rove Here

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: KarlMarx
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 03:27 PM

Thanks for the link. The Suskind article was very interesting. It reminds me that Hitler loved little children, and puppy dogs, too - as long as they were good, Aryan kinder, and presumably, good Aryan hunde, as well . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: leprechaun
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 03:30 PM

That's right GUEST Giddy, shut the f*ck up. Here we respect other people's opinions as long as they're the right opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: GUEST,Giddyupgo
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 03:33 PM

Hey Gern:

Which war are you refering to? I forgot there has been so many. Granada? Panama? Serbia? Bosnia?

Let's have a list of them and which were successful and which were disasters. A little bit of background might be informative.

As for loss of rights, I haven't lost any rights except the right to do illegal things. I would strip naked and show my flabby ass to anybody that wants to see it if it makes me safer from terrorist attacks. Or for that matter from zealots like militia men.

I think there is strength in unity. If Bush screws up this one we don't have to vote for him and he won't get elected.

And for those of you who say he was not elected by the majority, we can vote to do away with the Electoral College which is now a part of our form of government.

I believe we should abide by the law until we can vote and change it. That is part of our democratic government. We can even have peaceful rallies to gain support for changing the laws without fear.


   Giddyupgo

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: KarlMarx
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 03:44 PM

Did you know it has been made illegal to hold marches near the UN Headquarters in New York . . . ?

   "Citing 'this time of heightened security,' a federal judge ruled yesterday that the city did not violate the First Amendment when it banned anti-war demonstrators from marching near the United Nations on Feb. 15.

U.S. District Judge Barbara S. Jones said the demonstrators' First Amendment rights were not violated by the city's decision to confine the protest to a plaza near the U.N. complex. She said the city's need to protect the public outweighs the right of demonstrators to proceed with plans to march past the U.N. or to march at all.

'While the court recognizes the distinct importance of marching, the city's restriction on marching is not a restriction on pure speech, but rather a restriction on the manner in which plaintiff may communicate its message,' Jones wrote . . ."

   Well, you may want to surrender your freedoms for a few whiffs of illusory security, but the rest of us don't . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 04:00 PM

If Bush screws up this one we don't have to vote for him and he won't get elected GUEST/gug, if he screws it up, it'll be screwed for years to come.

I read the articles proposed for impeachment- and even though it was drawn up in January, it still holds. I signed on with no reservations.

Ramsay Clark is a fascinating man. First as a gungho, manipulative hawk for the Vietnam war then as an abashed man who had come to realize that he had been just plain WRONG then as an advocate for diplomacy and now as a militant to stop this administration in its headlong rush to change this country irretrievably. Through it all one thing comes through clearly: an honest man who speaks his mind as to the truth that he knows at the time. Could we all do as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: GUEST,Giddyupgo
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 11:56 PM

Ebbie:

"It" is screwed up now. Or do you think everything is peachy and no action needs to be taken anywhere in the world?

If you think we need action, where and what action? Give us a plan.

Giddyupgo

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 12:38 AM

gug, I don't think we are able to even visualize yet just how badly we can screw it up. All it takes to get the process started is an administration that has no respect for the US Constitution and a president who has a childlike trust that he alone is right.

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: DougR
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:28 AM

Let's see now. You don't like our president. You think he is a moron. You think he should be impeached. Ok. So that's grounds for impeachment?

Ramsey Clark is a man who has longed for a very long time to make for himself a positive place in history. However, efforts such as this one is not going to improve the place he already has. It just makes him look like well ...a idjet. Those who wish to climb aboard his effort are welcome to join the loonies. Only my opinion of course.

DougR

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Amos
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:31 AM

Doug, if you bother looking at the Articles Ramsey wrote, they don't depend on opinion; they are legal charges arguably grounded in cold fact.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: DougR
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:41 AM

Then I'm sure your effort will be successful, Amos!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: InOBU
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 10:52 AM

Hi Dough:
Hope things are nice and warm where you are, lots of snow here in new york! As to impeach him cause I don't care for him, no I agree that is a bad idea, impeach him for murder, extrajudicial killing of suspects in Yemmin ... that IS an impeachable offence. I agree that folks are much to quick to go for blood in politics, but in the face of a proposal to remove American citizenship from native born Americans without judicial oversite, yes, the time has come to throw the rougues out and rededicate ourselves to concervative US values.
Cheers
Larry

Subject: LYR ADD: Ghosts of our nation - Lorcan Otway-InOBU
From: InOBU
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 10:53 AM

I feel a song coming on...


Ghosts of our nation
word, Lorcan Otway all rights reserved
Tune The Shamrock Shore.

Farewell to the land, of Jefferson and Franklin
Farewell to the dreams of the good Thomas Paine
We have sacrificed our freedom, on the altar of security
and I fear we may not soon see the likes of both again,
For this land was more than a flag or a slogan
this land was more than its rocks or its clay
This land was a gift given us by great thinkers
a dream which lesser men have now cast away


The rule of law is hobbled and no rights are now held sacred
except the right to steal and plunder in the name of corporate greed
While bible thumping patriots, in the guise of elder statesmen
rob for the wealth of few from the people in most need
Now our prisons are full of the men of no property
and back alleys are filled with the hopeless and insane
but still we are told, that this is the land of liberty
and told to ignore those whom our country causes pain

Who can hold up their head, and proud proclaim their homeland
while leaders whet the assassins knife by stealth upon the road
this is not the act of a land of law and of justice
no mater who the target, we must live by legal code
What light of hope now shines in the halls of Philadelphia
what words of bravery speak out from the senate floor
what black thoughts now taint with blood, the hopes of a nation
when politician pimps make sweet liberty their whore

But I cast my gaze, to the hills of our history,
while I stake my few hopes on the words of our past
For while a spark shines on, in the ashes of these ruins
the light of freedom's fires may dispel the shadows cast
And each one of you, who remembers where we came from
proclaim your love liberty and reject the cynics sneer
cast fear upon the pyre of the promises of tyrants
turn away from craven cowards, and true hearts now draw near.

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: GUEST,Giddyupgo
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 12:24 PM

Ebbie:

All I hear from the Bush Bashers is that whatever plans the administration has are wrong and whatever they do is wrong. I see no alternatives given. No long range thinking.

All I hear is a bunch of whining equivalent to "I don't want to clean up my room". No constructive criticize. Only destructive criticism, Emotional statements and name calling.

Are we looking for a solution or just complaining?

Giddyupgo

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Peg
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 12:37 PM

giddyup:
you are oversimplifying things to an extreme. If you read other threads on the war, you will find specific and well-thought-out arguments for what should be done and why this administration has been so wrong-headed about this "war" from the get-go.
This claim that "You just want to impeach him because you don't like him" is childish and does not acknowledge the many legitimate reasons our citizenry has for believing our government has made a lot of mistakes recently and is hell-bent on killing a whole lot of innocent people just to distract from our tanking economy and the ongoing erosion of civil liberties, reproductive rights, acessible and affordable health care, and social security for the aging population, and any number of social and economic ills facing America today that are not being dealt with or prioritized, because all monies and bluster are being poured into the war coffers, and, assuming there are enough people left for a fucking quorum in 2004, this administration will be quite happy to leave this mess to the next (Democratic, surely) president to clean up....

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: KarlMarx
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 12:52 PM

Giddyup: if you and your idol Boy George are so right, why don't you both go over to Iraq, and remove Saddam Hussein yourselves, or are you like that cowardly little turd in the White House: a person who'd rather have someone else do the killing and dying for you . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 12:57 PM

I agree with InOBU. Bush, by ordering the extrajudicial killings (read murder) of several suspected terrorists, and those who happened to be sharing a car with them at the time, has committed murder through the abuse of presidential authority. That is a much more severe crime than lying about receiving oral sex. Whether or not they would have been convicted if arrested and tried really doesn't enter into the picture. Anyone who commits illegal acts abusing their authority is not merely unfit to be president, but a menace to society as long as he holds power.

Oh, and Giddyupgo, threatening to use nuclear weapons on a psychotic whom you claim has biological and chemical weapons doesn't strike me as "long range thinking."

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:06 PM

There hasn't been a US president that hasn't been guilty of impeachable offenses, if Ramsey Clark's allegations are the yardstick to be used. However, it is just as important to remember that this is an exercise in futility. US law is very clear about how brings the articles of impeachment, and who oversees the trial.

Is there anyone who seriously believes the US House of Representatives, controlled by militant Republicans to the right of Bush/Cheney, et al would actually bring this to the US Senate, which is now also controlled by militant right wing Republicans?

Why should the anti-war movement waste it's time on this sort of thing? I much prefer putting time, energy and resources into strategies and tactics that work, not this sort of grandstanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Amos
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:08 PM

Giddyup:

If Bushwah took more care at cleaning up his own room, he would be less likely to hear people "whining" "I don't want to commit wholesale slaughter against people who have not harmed me."

Maybe you feel more conmfortable with the prospect of spilling blood than some of us do. In mybook it is not something you do lightly, and the only complaint I have against Bush, aside from mendiancy and minicephalicism, is that he trivilaizes human life and dramatizes attitudes which are harmful.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: GUEST,johnm
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:29 PM

Ramsey Clark is a fool, always has been, and seems like he always will be. This whole discussion is idiotic

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Beccy
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:33 PM

Gee, Giddyupgo... I hope you were prepared to be eviscerated for disagreeing with people!

Amos, Gojira and Peg- you just proved Giddyupgo's point when you accused Bush of being a minicephalic (Amos), murderous (Peg), cowardly little turd (Gojira). Please. If you must disagree, disagree, and disagree to the extent of your passion, but insults are juvenile and counterproductive.

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: KarlMarx
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:35 PM

Well, "GUEST,johnm," you must be an idiot, because you've just contributed to this idiotic discussion . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: Amos
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:35 PM

I disagree, johnm. I think this discussion touches on some really important questions about what we want our representativer government to be free to do. And dismissing the issue as idiotic is awfully easy, isn't it? Perhaps you have a more considered opinion, something articulate?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Vote to Impeach Bush
From: KarlMarx
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:40 PM

Beccy: I suppose Boy George calling Vladimir Putin "Pootie-Poo" is the type of maturity that we should all look up to. And while we're at it, I wonder what type of mature comments you had to utter concerning Bubba's little tryst in the Oval Office a few years ago . . .