BS: Should a lady make the first move?

Subject: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:23 PM

Here's the scenario. I am in my early 50's, he's in his late 50's. We corresponded on line for a while, and have gone out several times to concerts and once to a festival. Most of the time we are with other people but a few times we have been on a "date". He has kissed me a few times, but has always been very respectful. Although he is outgoing, I think when it comes to romance he is shy. When he drops me off at my flat, I feel like he would like to come in and...well, you know...but I'm too shy to invite him and he's too shy to ask. We do laugh and joke and sometimes share suggestive "double entendres" but that's as far as it goes. Should I take a deep breath and work up my courage to make the first move?? How? I have been divorced for a couple of years and havent' dated much. I feel like such a novice. I don't know if it is okay for a woman to make the first move. I would be so embarassed if he rejected my overture. And will he think I am a loose woman? Help!

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:32 PM

well...seems to me a low key remark would be in order
"you know, we seem to be on a plateau, wondering whether to move up to another level. I'm interested...how about you?" ...phrased in your own style, of course.
   Having someone show an interest in intimacy 'ought' to be at least flattering, and could at least clear the air about any confusions. A few kisses sound like a good start.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:33 PM

Interesting subject; I'll be watching for replies.

My own notion is that if you like each other - and you KNOW that you both do - there is absolutely no reason for you not to make the first move to another level. There is no way he could consider you a 'loose' woman for doing so- hey, you've been waiting and observing, right? - but if he did, he is not a guy you want in your life anyway.

It is always a possibility that he has physical limitations that govern his actions, so you could make it clear that increased intimacy is what you are after, whether that is physical or only emotional.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Scoville
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:34 PM

I don't see why not, but wondering about what he might think if you ask makes me think you might want to get him to talk about it a little more before you actually do it. (Of course, my relationships race along like glaciers, so who am I to say?)

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:34 PM

How about inviting him round for a meal one night, rather than going out?

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Bernard
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:36 PM

Yes, definitely. Do it with subtlety, but do it! Time's ticking away, and a gentleman will know how to deflect an unwanted advance without being cruel.

He may well be wondering the same thing... you've nothing to lose.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:37 PM

Half of them do. So, what's the question?

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: ClaireBear
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:43 PM

If you were to invite him to a home-prepared dinner and, say, a DVD (or some music you'd like him to hear, or a board game, or whatever), then he would already be in your flat and you wouldn't have that awkward moment of inviting him in "for a coffee". Then, watch for signals. With privacy, he may develop enough courage to make a move without your having to appear "loose" by explicitly inviting him in for "you know".

If that seems too forward, you might prevail on another couple to come to dinner as well, but privately arrange with them to leave earlier in the evening so that you will have him to yourself for a while. Then proceed as above...

Good luck, whatever you choose to do!

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:46 PM

Ummm...do remember that by the 50s, most people have become pretty set in their ways about what they want included in a more intimate relationship. It pays to 'clear the air' carefully and gently.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:49 PM

Que sera sera, Guest, if it doesn't happen naturally, then maybe it's best to leave it!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:50 PM

The home cooked dinner invitation sounds good, perhaps after an enjoyable concert. BillD, could you elaborate a little bit more on what you just said? Not sure I understand what you mean? Perhaps it is significant that he has not made a move.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:07 PM

Perhaps it is significant...but I can't guess why, except to suggest that IF you both decide to try more intimacy, be honest about your 'limits' and desires. It is not necessary to go into detail in the 1st 10 minutes, but people can be VERY different.

...and, there is always the off-chance he, as a man in his late 50s, has some 'problem' that worries him. Everyone has some fear of not being 'satisfactory'....and some have real concerns. Or, it may be that he simply is not wanting to be 'possessed' ...has he BEEN married? Did he have a bad experience? It may take more talk to work out why he in not more foreward. As you say of yourself...HE may be afraid of seeming too forward. Humans are pretty complex.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: MMario
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:10 PM

or he could just be thick and needs to be whacked upside the head with a two-by-four to notice.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Bert
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:26 PM

Perhaps you've been giving off negative signs. Try flirting a bit more.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Lox
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:26 PM

What do you want? (be honest with yourself - then him)

What does he want? (ask him)

Go ahead, make the first move.

A relationship built on an honest open conversation is hardly going to do worse than any other.

Yeah - Dinner - Forget the show - it will only give you other things to talk about and another opportunity might be missed.

"Crossing the threshold" in terms of saying things that you feel embarrassed about saying to somebody you like because you irrationally feel they might feel badly about you even though it is obvious that they are aware of the intimacy going on as you are ... (pant pant) ... really isn't that big a deal when you let it happen.

It's not about building up to a big event, it's about enjoying a moment and being honest about it. If you are feeling warm and fuzzy and you want the moment to carry on, you may say so.

Red wine helps ... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Lox
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:31 PM

oh yeah

and you can take it as slow or as fast as you like. Just remember, this ain't the movies. You're dealing with a person ... and so are they (if they have anything about them)

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:40 PM

I've always liked, and sometimes used, the icebreaker spoken by the character that Liza Minelli portrayed in Sterile Cuckoo...

"So howsabout hittin' the old sackeroo?"

Saves a ton of time

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:47 PM

Life's too short, get on with it and enjoy it. If it doesn't work out, then nothing lost. You are not 18 anymore. You do not have to answer to anybody. you will probably regret it if you don't give it a go.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 03:57 PM

My advice is that a woman should never make the first move. A pushy woman of my acquaintance made a move on me almost exactly twenty years ago. We celebrated our eighteenth wedding anniversary yesterday.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:27 PM

I can't imagaine why you would be "too shy" to invite him in - in the circles I travel in - and I don't think those circles are terribly unusual, and I'm heading into the same age range you're talking about - there's nothing untoward about a woman inviting a man into her place; it certainly isn't perceived as an automatic invitation to ... Surely this man is not so Victorian that he would lose all respect for you if you said, Why don't you come up? (or come in for a bit? or come in for a drink/coffee?, whatever makes sense in your part of the world). And if he IS that Victorian, and if runs around telling everyone about your frightful behaviour, he's going to be taken as an idiot and you're going to be taken as a normal person. Invite him in - he'll either come in or he won't. Take it from there.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:31 PM

I believe in equal rights. If it's ok for a man to do it, it's ok for a woman to do it.
You may be giving off "keep away" energy without even knowing it. Next time he kisses you, don't be the first to let go.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Amos
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:34 PM

Take him by the hand, tell him to not worry and to stop talking, lead him upstairs and kiss him.

If that doesn't do it, it ain't meant to be! :)


A

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Lox
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:37 PM

Then slowly unbuckle his belt ...

(to read the rest of this story you must subscribe for £59.99)

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Rowan
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:50 PM

It's interesting how our different experiences bear on how each of us approaches the situation. If you have a relaxed confidence in who you are you might not even be asking the question unless your sensitivity to another is so exquisite as to be painful in this situation. Relax, and approach with confidence and sensitivity. I suspect you could successfully deal with any of the various consequences.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Lox
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 05:13 PM

"If you have a relaxed confidence in who you are you might not even be asking the question unless your sensitivity to another is so exquisite as to be painful in this situation. Relax, and approach with confidence and sensitivity"

Yes.

To add to that;

Your sensitivity is an asset, and judging by your initial post, it is one which the object of your desire shares. That's got to be a good thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: JenEllen
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 05:31 PM

Mixture of Rowan and Leej--but the main objective being not to take yourself too seriously. Might be fantastic, might be pure crapola, but I can guarantee that if you wait until one or the other of you is beyond frustrated with the situation then no one is going to be happy. Besides, wouldn't you rather be considered a 'loose woman' than one who's rusted shut for lack of wear? *bg*

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Lox
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 05:35 PM

"wouldn't you rather be considered a 'loose woman' than one who's rusted shut for lack of wear?"

I think both these terms create unnecessary pressure. Do it your way in your time if you want to.

Be true to yourself though and don't let yourself down either way.

Listen to your heart instead of ignoring it, then the wise counsel your brain has to offer will be of more relevance.

... borderline psychobabble there ... but not meaningless

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 05:39 PM

My late wife said "Lets go to bed".

Worked for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 05:53 PM

Personally I used the old "write 'em a song and watch the reaction" - the old Somers FC when it was at the Somers saw it a few times and were as keen as I was at the reaction. But I doubt that was what you would call "sub title". There are similar ways - I had a story teller weave a long story and it was fairly obvious it was aimed at me - no script just from the heart. The listeners were enthralled - no shuffling of feet. I was going carefully at the time so it all fizzled out. Maybe a more public show (in the best possible taste)would move the message on.

Maybe remarks like "so much for the theory ........" and the "practical" implication may be obvious yet unstated.

Maybe enlist a friend to have the saying of it. A third party can be more direct.

How tactile is the relationship at this stage. Hand on elbow, arm shoulder - nothing too intrusive, just a short touch. Sort of polite entree.

These things can take a while - has he been hurt and too raw to risk rejection?

If it can be broached - the subject of how you will progress or pause on this journey, a sort of road map. Give him hope without risk, Ditto you.

Some men might be frightned of what they percieve as "pushy" - better with words and a bit of tactile and judge how he sees the pace of it.

What about the old film tactic. Talk to daughter/mother on the phone and say a few things that he could pick-up on, like "Can't talk now - got a date with a rather dishy hunk blah blah blah."

If all else fails, get him to register as a 'Catter and hope he reads this thread..................

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:02 PM

How about the old "Do you find me attractive"? routine..you know..the "Can I ask you something"? and then the "Do you find me attractive"?......It's a starting or finishing point...for conversation anyway and possibly a long term friendship if nothing else.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:15 PM

Awwww, jus' invite the guy over and answer the door in somethin' skinmpy...

(Very bad answer, Bobert...)

Hey, I was jus' funnin'... But seriously, this guy wasn't born last night so he' been in a few situations and he will certainly welcome a "True Confessions" kinda "Hey, Joe, I kinda need to talk with you about something"...

How many real dates did you say you have had???

If yer in the half a dozen range then go for it... The poor guy is probably eaten up with shyness so he'll appreciate you making the effort...

Then have somethin' skimpy on hand...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Lox
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:49 PM

I'm with bobert

Sorry Mr Red, I think this one needs simplifying. I think you're making it confusing.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: GUEST,Confidentially Anonymous Guy
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 07:20 PM

Keep in mind there is a lot of misreading of one's emotions and intent on the part of both sexes in a budding, fledgling relationship. I am an older guy who has had the opportunity to have been with much younger and much older women, but I still have not figured them out. I have dated women who I thought disliked me during argumentative courtships only to find out they were the ones who liked me the most at the time.    Then again, when those relationships were over they ended up being the worst estrangements of all.

Since I have won some and lost some, I would only say from a man's perspective, take it easy and do not reveal too much of your past relationships, be fair, and above all BE HONEST!

Relationships are difficult, regardless of the decency of both participants.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 07:40 PM

Ok, maybe my age is showing here but if he is kissing you, doesn't that mean he likes you? I like what Guest, MemyselfandI had to say....very relaxed approached for both people...no need to put so much pressure! Relax, enjoy, be happy!!! I'm already happy for you! You WILL write again and tell us how it's going, won't you?

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 08:03 PM

It might depend what the first move is.

Isn't the truth of it that as often as not (at least) women do make the first move, one way or another?

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 09:25 PM

If you are comfortable enough with each other's company to be ready to have each other in your respective homes, it is perfectly appropriate to "arrange" for him to come into yours or for you to suggest a reason to be in his. A cup of coffee or a "nightcap" at the end of one of your meetings is pretty non-threatening, and perfectly prim and proper in most local cultures today.

My experience and observation is that a fair percentage of men expect, and will wait for, a fairly explicit indication that "she" is ready for any step to a new level of intimacy. For many men, especially older children like yours, it's almost mandatory that the woman take the lead to move beyond "casual friendship." (We can be pretty dense - and easily frightened about "pushing" relationships.)

Obviously if the man is interested, he may not wait forever. If he's not interested in the level of intimacy you want, you should find out before you spend a lot of time "just hoping."

To find out if you both are ready for something "more intimate" you may need to be together where intimacy is appropriate - understanding that even where the situation allows it, it's not mandatory and either of you should be free to decline any offer.

LiK used the subtle ploy of inquiring about the software I had on my home computer and asked to see it. (Asking to inspect his software might not be the best approach if he doesn't have a computer.)

Once at my apartment, LiK was extremely subtle and coy, when she asked:

"Why are we standing around with all our clothes on?"

Being a very clever young fellow, then of about the age of your friend, I suppressed the reply "I like to keep the heat low to save on fuel costs," and detected a "clue" here. Our relationship progressed quite nicely thereafter.

I'm sure she wouldn't mind if you borrowed her line, although I've heard others that might have worked about the same. (She was, at the time, a bit younger than you, so an age-appropriate adjustment in details might be in order.)

Of course a couple can discuss being more intimate in a setting where it's inappropriate to be more intimate; but it's often best to have a proper place in mind and available so that you can proceed without undue delay if the discussion leads toward something more.

Being in a place where intimacy could be appropriate doesn't mean it's required, so there is no real reason not to have the discussion at home (yours or his), if you're comfortable with it and circumstances permit.

While the guys often are the ones who ask for the first "meeting," even that isn't really a "standard practice" any longer. Some men might prefer to "make the arrangements" for a first meeting; but it's quite appropriate and widely accepted for the woman at least to say "Give me a call so we can get together sometime?" to initiate something. It's also considered quite appropriate for a woman to ask a possibly compatible male to "be my escort" for an appropriate event, as a way of getting a first meeting. (Even these openings don't always produce a desired result, but doing nothing almost never gets you where you want to go.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Amos
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 10:00 PM

You could ask him his opinion of this web site which is perfectly respectable.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 11:42 PM

"Asking to inspect his software might not be the best approach"

...especially if it's really his hardware you want...

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 12:43 AM

Wow, Amos. Global Orgasm Day is coming!

Hard to believe that in 31 days, 1 hour, 12 minutes and 36 seconds it'll be here. I need to call my old friend Julie. If she starts preparing right away, she just might be able to participate.
Difficult to realize that it's already almost one whole year since the last Global Org Day. Soon the air will be filled with jolly carolers moaning from door to door, top-hatted gents and ladies with their comfy muffs calling out "give us a quickie, dear, and we'll be on our way!"

And of course, Global Orgasm Day Eve, or Foreplay Night. How hard it always is to fall asleep with the anticipation of the morning's frolic hanging in the air like an imminent thunder storm. Then, lumbering limberly out of bed at the crack of dawn to discover what goodies have been left for you on the Comfy Couch!

How I look forward to this time of year when mankind, for at least this very special day, tries to come together as one.
Let me the first to wish everyone a Festive Foreplay Night, and a toe-curling Global Orgasm Day!

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: GUEST,Another person in her 50's
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 01:05 AM

I'm about that same age, and am just beginning to think about beginning to think about what's being discussed here. I am so impressed with all the kindly and wise advice that's being given in answer to this question.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: hilda fish
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 02:13 AM

I'm in my late fifties and I always ask. A person who is extremely dear to me (and yes, I asked him if he was going to be my lover) has a mantra, "don't die wondering". A very good reminder of our fleeting moments of life and our mortality. Kissing is just, well, kissing. These days it holds no more than that unless someone moves it along to something else. Might as well be you. Making love is also no more than that, making love, unless someone wants - and asks - for it to be something else. Kisses don't equal love or a relationship, making love doesn't equal love or a relationship. What is it you want? Sex/making love, a relationship, bonking buddy? You gotta realise everything is negotiable 'cos you are both human and can both talk. The 'lady' bit died a bloody long time ago I think. You're grown up - ask for what you want - negotiate it. If you are rejected, then handle it. It's not such a big deal when negotiation is the name of the game. A potential lover is also a potential best friend. All through this I'm tempted to say, don't be pathetic, but that sounds a bit mean. But a bit of backbone girl! You ain't 16, sweet and shy (whatever that is!). You are a woman fullgrown in all your glory and able to work out what you want and ask for it, and also handle it graciously if you don't get it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 05:58 AM

Don't worry rejection on to heavily - if it happens dump it on here - we'll handle it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 09:07 AM

I've invited him to play scrabble at my place this Saturday. He seemed pleased, and offered to bring wine and cheese. We'll see...

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Cruiser
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 09:15 AM

Now, Lonesome EJ, that was funny!

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 09:23 AM

"I'm ... just beginning to think about beginning to think about what's being discussed here"

Don't rush into anything!

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: JennyO
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 09:27 AM

Scrabble - that's good! Some friends of mine used to visit each other to play scrabble. They're happily married now.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 10:25 AM

Make sure the scrabble game lasts a long time and, when it's over, say "It's much too late for you to travel. I would worry about you. Why don't you stay over?" When he asks "Where will I sleep?" the respnse is "With me, I hope." Worked for us. The point is that the ball is in his court at that point. If he is not ready to take such a blatant hint, he is clearly not the person you wish to be with.

By the way, when playing scrabble or at dinner or in other situations, make sure you are sitting near him, not opposite him. Location sends important messages, as does propinquity. If you are always opposite him, he might perceive it as maintaining distance.

In the 1970's I learned that walking up to a woman and stating "You seem to be a very interesting person. I would like to spend tonight getting to know you better." Some of those women are still my friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 10:26 AM

Scrabble? How many of you were in Slovenia with us last summer?

A couple there, who are now engaged, spent most of their time 'playing scrabble'. This wouldn't have been a problem, if they weren't sharing the room with others, and one of them was nominally in charge of the group....

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 10:51 AM

How hard it always is to fall asleep with the anticipation ...I've always heard it was difficult for a fellah at "attention" to fall asleep...:-)

The only thing I would add to the great advice above, is be sure to use protection; have some condoms available in case he doesn't. It would be a good idea to also have some lubricant and/or spermicidal jelly handy. It's a sad fact these days that we have to be careful, but it can be handled in a senstive and/or fun way.

Subject: RE: BS: Should a lady make the first move?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 11:00 AM

Is he a Mudcatter? We need to know, as this might alter our suggestions as to what you should or should not do!
Giok