BS: Janet Jacksons Breast

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 11:10 PM

Worst halftime I've ever seen! Not one artist that I even pay attention to including Janet's bared breast! I kept the TV on mute for most of it. The only thing that meant anything was Jackson's Rhythm Nation which carries positive messages (no to illiteracy, no to violence (some irony there no doubt) etc.) They couldn't have saved that show if he'd ripped off all of her clothes. But what did you expect from MTV? It's no longer even MTV it's all so-called reality shows or rap after hours.

What happened to the music you or I cared about? Do we have to be stuck with "Whatever Happened To" or "I Love The Eightys"!
Two of my favorite stations in the area, one that played classic rock and another that played music from the 70's to today both just changed. One is now all easy listening (not soft rock, more like limpid rock and ever whitney houston song ever recorded) the other is now hip hop. AAaaarrrgggggghhhhh! (Sorry for the rant)

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 12:17 AM

I figure they were just trying to upstage the Madonna/Britney kiss, not that I give a rat's ass. I like boobs quite a lot, though JJ's wouldn't be my first choice, not that I think I've got a choice.

I think we'll see a sudden popularity in that exposed style of nipple hardware. I wonder if she can get NPR on that thing.

(I have to admit I don't have the slightest idea who this Timberlake guy is, or what his claim to fame might be, but I can guess that his celebrity is greater than mine 'cause I'm sure I couldn't get away with undressing JJ.)

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 05:36 AM

Midchuck - you mean that you want to get a mammary into the primary.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 06:06 AM

SINSULL - I didn't ignore your mastitis thread - I even suggested that you should submit a set of photos to Pene.

I think that what amused many of us over here in the UK (especially Linda) was the fuss that's being made across the atlantic, because a breast was bared on television when children might have been watching. Perhaps the nipple ornament might have seemed a bit kinky (where can I buy one like that for Linda ?), but surely most children have seen or know about female breasts - after all for a long while the US has been thought to have rather a fetish about boobs. OK they usually try to make sure that the nipple's just about covered in most cases, but I'm sure that most kids are quite capable of realising that if they have nipples themselves, so do other people.

Omigod - just think about the effect that a bare nipple could have on a tiny baby - would the tot be traumatised for life ?

One of my favourite stories comes from a friend of mine who bought a strapless evening dress to go to a posh dinner with her husband. The next day her six year old daughter told her friends "Mummy looked ever so pretty in her beautiful new dress - it was so low you could nearly see her nibbles !".

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 06:55 AM

There is either a lot of non thinking going on here, or agenda's being pushed. The thought of a breast being bared is not a problem. My problem with this incident, as well as most of what I see in the rap/hip hop video's is the blatant reduction of women to sex toys. Sure I find the whole "sex and naked bodies are tools of the devil" thing repulsive. But I have a real problem with my 12 year old young women being shown men ripping open bodices, and women in music video's whose only function is to rub their ass on the man's penis while he sings about what he is going to do to women. It isn't the body, it is the message.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 07:28 AM

It seems that all she suceeded in doing was making a right tit of herself.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 07:48 AM

The whole super Bowl thing is so typical of the shallowness of modern life that It makes one want to sign off electricity and read Thomas Hardy Books by Candle light. Who the hell is Justin whatever, who cares about a five yard dash that takes twenty minutes to accomplish..like watching a committee meeting. It is all such a farce. Another Jackson, another bore all watched by millions of people who make me sad because they can find nothing better to. What a world we live in.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 07:59 AM

Here are a few wise, choice comments from an opinion piece in today's Washington Post article by Sally Jenkins:

"The blame game has begun. CBS, MTV and a slew of spokespeople are pointing fingers at each other...It's that dangerous rap music that makes kids behave this way, right? But I'd rather point my own finger directly at the league. If the Super Bowl halftime show was offensive and unsuitable for family viewing, I blame Paul Tagliabue and his fellow marketing executives at the NFL. It was their show, start to finish.

Maybe now we'll finally grasp the fact that the league is just another mass entertainment company, the Viacom of sports...

For years NFL marketers have preyed on the sensibilities of the nation to sell their sponsors' products. They have appropriated sex, patriotism, war and even the tragedy of Sept. 11 as commercial vehicles, and used them all to peddle more Coors and cars...

You can always count on the NFL...to seize on the topic of the day and bend it as a selling tool, along with breasty cheerleaders, Britney Spears and faux-militarism, in search of higher ratings and ad revenues...

Never mind that we're in a primary season, that a kid got shot to death at Ballou High and we have a trillion dollar budget deficit.

Let's talk about Janet Jackson's breast...

On days like this, I miss Howard Cosell. I miss his cold appraisals and scathing judgments, and...I suspect that if Cosell were there, he'd have said that while the Super Bowl halftime was a piece of soft porn theater, it was perhaps no more or less offensive than, say, trivializing the Columbia catastrophe with a song and a dance and a phony astronaut planting a flag on a fake moon. Cosell was arguably the last legitimate journalist in sports broadcasting, and he spent the final years of his life railing against the "unholy alliances" between the major professional leagues and the networks.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,C-cup
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 08:16 AM

They are both laughing all the way to the bank - good luck to them, her boobs, and nipple toy.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 08:17 AM

And anyone who believes this sick, pathetic sports culture is unique to the pros, or has nothing to do with politics hasn't been reading their local newspapers. If they did, they would be aware of the usurpation of our tax dollars to fund the sports stadiums and pay for the recruitment of high school athletes to college sports programs by entertaining the boys at local strip clubs and encouraging underage drinking.

Then after "the big game" the male fans can go out and have a drunken weekend riot--they are just so adorable when they burn the cars of the minimum wage workers who work in the bars and restaurants in the college neighborhoods where they play they rape, pillage, and plunder games, pretending to be the imperial kings of their frat house.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,Thread creep
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 08:19 AM

To much thread creep here get back to the cup in hand.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:04 AM

Dead on, Big Mick. Couldn't be better said.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: harpgirl
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:16 AM

Right-O, Mick. Justin Timberlake should have been arrested for sexual assault, don't you think?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:19 AM

"I have only watched one Super Bowl in my lifetime. I find football to be very boring, and the fact that Super Bowl Sunday has become an unofficial national holiday is yet another way that corporate America has sucked in the public."

I can agree with much of this sentiment, which is probably why I don't bother watching many games. But this football game was really excellent. Too bad the rest of the show was such a waste. As for JJ's right breast and its exposure conspiracy, Big Mick has a good point about context. And I don't think Mick would advocate covering up a breast on a statue of Justice as the staff of our Attorney General did in DC.

My family remembers the controversy generated in the 1930's when my grandfather's bronze nude statue "Spirit of the Dance" was installed at Rockefeller's Plaza in New York City; she was ultimately removed from public view to the Lady's waiting room. She's still there, the last time my family paid a visit.

But what a game!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Dani
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:20 AM

Here, here, Mick.

Janet Jackson's breast is lovely, but the whole THING was so stupid and offensive. How the hell ARE people talking with their kids, boys AND girls about this? Shouldn't we be telling them that this was NOT ok with us? I was so stunned by the piggishness of the entire show, every single part of that half-time show. It was over before I could even comprehend what I was watching and turn it off.

I despair. Who thought this was entertainment? Are we really being flushed so completely??!!

And when we get ready to move on, can we talk about Aerosmith? I was so disappointed. The rockingest rock band there is, sirens of my youth. It was very sad....

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,BM
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:26 AM

Dani,

You might think that "Janet Jackson's breast is lovely," but I'd much rather look at and fondle a real breast, not a big bag of silicone decorated with cheap jewelry.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Pseudolus
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:47 AM

It all kinda goes back to the "who's a role model" question. I think that all adults are by default role models. whether they take on the responsibility is another question. A kid watching that halftime show not only gets the message as Mick said, but he/she is shown by adults that they look up to, that it's "ok", that what they are doing is the norm. I heard talk show idiots say all day that it's only a breast, what's the big deal? I think the big deal is that some young girl, somewhere, is thinking, "Wow, that Janet Jackson sure is brave to do that on TV. One day, I'm gonna be just like her."


Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:57 AM

I am amazed at how many people claim to be "shocked" and "disgusted" by MTV and this display. Since the 1960's our culture has been changing to reach this point. Remember when Lenny Bruce was arrested for using certain words in a nightclub? Many of those words are now used here on Mudcat. There were sexual revolutions that empowered people to take control of their own bodies. We may have gone to excess, but I think there were some important lessons.

I am not a fan of the performances that MTV shows, even though I have a close family member that works for MTV management and was very directly involved in Sunday nights half-time show. I do give my children more credit to understand what is peformance and what is reality and what is staged. We take the time to watch with them and discuss.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:36 AM

I wonder if Ashcroft put a $5,000 curtain over his TV?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Bob Hitchcock
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:38 AM

What did the NFL expect when they hired MTV to do the half time show? The whole show was an example of the trash MTV is pumping into our kid's brains under the guise of Rock n Roll.

Rock music is now reduced to a metalic pulsating beat accompanied by a set of explicit lyrics which one (1) monkey at one (1) typewriter could have produced in less than 10 minutes. To hell with Janet's breast and Nelly grabing his schlong after every 16 beats and the gyrating scantilly clad dancers and the so called stars of the month lip synching their way through their stupid little songs, if I want to see dancers i'll go to the Ballet.

So Janet, Justin, CBS, MTV and the NFL got just what they all wanted, lots of attention and publicity, no matter how sorry they say they are, their PR agents are loving it. All this fuss so the advertisers can sell us Budweiser to to help us through our Erectile Dysfunctional lives.

I think I'll just boycott everything now.

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:39 AM

Yeah. Anyone who knows me knows that I am the furthest thing from prudish. I think it ridiculous that someone thinks they have the right to tell me what messages I am supposed to give my kids. Actually this was pretty timely, given the conversation that my daughter and her friend Hannah had just had the day before. I was taking them to a skating party, and Hannah wanted to listen to a rap station. We put it on the radio, and the lyrics immdiately came from a male singer which suggested all the things that this guy was going to do to the "hoes". I used it as a moment to ask the girls how they felt about being described this way. After a few uneasy moments, Hannah said she just liked the beat. I then went on to describe the music of the late 60's and early 70's that I used to listen to that had a great beat but lyrics that were poorly thought out. This made the girls a little less uneasy, because they knew it wasn't just them. We then went on about how music can be used to shape opinion, and my little Ciara came up with this gem; "Da, I guess when you make music you need to make sure you are saying what you mean, instead of just trying to impress people?" Great kid, that one.

I don't have a problem with folks sending messages, but I think I have the right to tailor that to reflect my values. If this were on a pay per view, or a channel like MTV/VH1, where I know that it is going to be, then I can choose to expose my kids. But when it is thrust upon me when I had every reasonable expectation that I not be in a situation of dealing with it as if it were fairly neutral, that crosses a line.

I have spent a great deal of time trying to teach my children that sexuality is a wondrous thing, that body image does not determine worth, and that women are an equal and extremely valuable part of the wonder of creation. To have all this besmirched on public TV by folks that are not raising my children, and who do not share my sensibilities, as if they have the right to do so, is an insult and very sad.

Interesting, isn't it, that the folks that chose to do this are folks that are not raising children?

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Pseudolus
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:41 AM

So Ron, what would they have had to do to shock you? Sounds like you're saying we're gonna get there eventually anyway so let em just have sex if it's just a performance. The point is, it has to stop somewhere. I discussed this issue with my kids as well, and I told them that it was trash, and I told them that just because people are famous, it doesn't mean they can't be idiots.

Frank

P.S. For the record, the language you speak of is not allowed in my house or on the TV when my kids are around...

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:42 AM

Harpgirl said:

Right-O, Mick. Justin Timberlake should have been arrested for sexual assault, don't you think?

Why? He was just doing what they did in rehearsal.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:55 AM

Powdered ricin (nerve toxin) is detected in the Senate Office Building on Monday, 16 people are decontaminated.

Inject as much as fits on the head of a pin and it is deadly, inhaled as a powder you'd need to inhale a lot more to get sick. Sounds like a sick trick or joke, a stunt intended to terrorize the nation on a big political day (seven primaries and caucuses today).

But what? ABC Goodmorning America gives some conservative twit far too much time to pronounce bad things about Janet Jackson's right tit. For twenty minutes they must have gone on with reaction interviews, after 30 seconds on something that should actually be news.

Get a sense of proportion, America!

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:06 AM

Proportions looked OK to me ?

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:12 AM

Dave...So, rehearsing the assault makes it acceptable? Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:13 AM

"I discussed this issue with my kids as well, and I told them that it was trash"

Doesn't sound like a discussion Frank, it sounds like you were making their decision.

If you read my earlier note, you will notice that I said the half-time show was NOT appropriate for the Super Bowl. What I did say is that I am surprised people are so shocked at this incident. These moves are part of our culture!

Mick said something very important. He has spent time teaching his children that sexuality is a wonderous thing and that body image does not determine worth.   That is the lesson. IF we are all doing that as parents, then I think we can be comfortable that they can watch the junk on TV and separate reality from fiction. If we can teach our children where fantasy ends and reality begins, we have done our job. We can't be scared by the boogeymen of TV - the boogeymen that ALL of us have helped to create.

Remember when Elvis's butt, Jerry Lee Lewis's shaking, and songs like "Wake Up Little Suzie" gave our parents cause for concern? Same story, diffent age. Rock and Roll has ALWAYS been about rebellion and challenging values. Those of you think that it can crawl back to something more innocent should dust off the old Pat Boone records and keep your fingers crossed.

Dave - you are wrong. This is not what they did in rehearsal. The removal of her breastplate was worked out between Jackson & Timberlake. The move was never included in the rehearsals.

Mick - the "folks" at MTV do have children.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:23 AM

not even a breast, really, just a plastic bag with some liquid in it & some skin stretched over it.

o, the outrage! you'd think Bill Clinton was somehow responsible! if not directly involved.

gives the FCC chief something to do for show while he gives away the airwaves to a few corporate interests.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Pseudolus
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:27 AM

See, the problem is, we're focusing in on just the exposing of the breast, that's not what I referred to as trash, and in fact that was only one part of an entire discussion. So no, I did not dictate their opinions in fact I let them speak first so that my opinion would not influence theirs. The entire mood of the dance (as interprutted by my kids) was demeaning. I agreed. It was at THAT point that I told them I felt the whole thing was trash. There is a certain amount of parenthood that involves teaching and at that point, after the discussion, it was time to do just that. I also tried to explain to them that just because they see it on TV, doesn't mean that that's the way things are or should be. Kids are easily influenced and it may seem obvious to an adult where the line is, it may not be so clear to a 12 year old.

I don't own any Pat Boone records but if you think that there's no point in being angered by something like this because change is inevitable, then I ask you again, what do they have to do to shock you? Would getting totally naked and fornicating on the stage have been a shocker? Or just another step in the inevitable chain?

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:43 AM

Frank, you are missing my point. I am not saying it is inevitable, I am saying that we have let culture progress to this point and now we are all shocked by it. It is ironic. We used to laugh when our "elders" complained about the length of the Beatle's hair or the short miniskirts or those kids running around naked or the suggestive lyrics of the Rolling Stones. When we were the youth, we "seemed" to know what was right and wrong. Now that we've become the parents, we are now becoming shocked at what culture is throwing at us. I do agree that what may be obvious to an adult is not so clear to a 12 year old, but I do think they can understand more than we give them credit for.

What can we do? As you say we can teach our children.   We should also try to understand where this culture has evolved from if we expect to have any credence.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:47 AM

So, it wasn't an assault because it was consensual? Whether it was predetermined by JJ and JT alone, or with the approval of the powers is material only to those seeking or avoiding blame. The end result is that it was in poor taste in a time and place where many impressionable young minds were watching. Not that we should be surprised mind you, considering what passes for acceptable behavior in general society and among its leaders, including the TV Gods.

But for heaven's sake, can't this immature, self-impressed, egomaniacal, ill-considered behavior be kept outside of the daytime/primetime slots? Or has money, hype, ego, and image entirely eclipsed good judgement?

What price values?

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:50 AM

Ron ..... I think you know that I am referring to Timberlake and Jackson .... and from everything I have read, including their own statements, this was their doing. That is not to excuse or alibi CBS and MTV. They knew full well that their "stars" would try to garner ratings, and were aiming at the younger audience. They knew that Nelly would grab his penis ..... and condoned, even encouraged it. They were hoping, IMO, for controversy as we all know that is good for business/ratings. That is the reason, IMO, that Jackson and Timberlake felt OK with their decision. Now they are trying to set up the "plausible deniability" gambit.

Busting Timberlake and Jackson would be like busting the street level narcotics dealer. Makes you feel better, but does nothing to resolve the real issue, and that is money.

I repeat..........nudity is not the issue. The message is the issue.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 12:04 PM

Wait a second Mick, you are the one mixing up the nudity with the message. MTV and CBS did not apologize for the tone of their half-time show, they only apologized for the nudity.

You are correct - the NFL knew EXACTLY what type of show they were getting when they hired MTV to do the half-time show. MTV has nothing to apologize for, they delivered what they were asked for.

As for Mooh's point, I'm not sure if I agree with you. Do we consider any stage or film performance an "assault"? This was entertainment, even though most of us agree it was pretty awful.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 12:06 PM

Fair point, Ron, and I stand corrected.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Kim C
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 12:42 PM

Well, I didn't see it, but I feel like I did!

I don't think it's necessarily The Breast that's an issue. There's naked breasts on PBS all the time, and not all of them on women who live in countries where women usually go topless. Context is everything. It sounds to me like the whole halftime show was pretty trashy, which is sad.

But I'm just an unfrozen caveman. I don't understand about these Modern Ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 12:43 PM

Sure takes people's attention off of Michael for a while, doesn't it? That Jackson family, what will they think of next!

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 01:08 PM

Ron...No, I don't suppose JJ considers it an assault, but it WAS an assault on [admitedly my] good taste and what I think younger minds should be subjected to. I don't think of it as an assault on JJ either, just horrendous bad judgement. My 12 year old came home from school with several different young teen viewpoints. She gets it, but most of her classmates apparently don't, especially the boys.

Equating this with any film or stage performance might be a stretch. I wasn't aware that the Superbowl has a rating. Does it?

The "assault" aside, had I seen the game I would have not seen the show. None of my family and none of my adult friends (as far as I'm aware) cares for the genre of music performed. Could they not have found something else to present, or is everyone so starstruck and celebrity obsessed that this represents general entertainment?

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Pseudolus
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 01:17 PM

Slight thread drift...someone mentioned the statue (nicknamed Minnie Lou by the way) that Ashcroft covered with a VERY expensive tarp. One of my all-time favorite singer/songwriters John Flynn wrote a song about just that. It's called, apropriately, Minnie Lou and here's a link to John's site with the lyrics....

Frank


Minnie Lou

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 01:26 PM

Mick has articulated (quite well IMO) the issues here. I don't envy you having to raise young girls in this culture/climate with no help from anyone/anything/any institution etc. I was stunned when my own daughter, at the age of 6, would do a bump and grind and sing "Do it to me one more time." The passivity in that attitude hurt me more than anything. Then, for me, a math teacher, to see young girls drop out of math classes, or try to hide their brains...it just hurts. Or in teaching high school just a few years ago, to hear the unbelievable language (often hidden from adults) and to witness the attitudes toward women/rape/violence/detachment. Or to daily witness crotch grabbing, strutting, very, very loud talk, physical intimidation and bullying...very distressing. I really think these issues affect the parents of girls more than anyone, at least for this generation. Mick, take care of those young women. And let us know how we can help the young women in our lives.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 01:38 PM

Yeah, Mary, it is trying at times. The best I can offer is that I take the stuff on head up. I look for opportunities to to have conversation, and then talk about it in a matter of fact way. The trick is to do so without demonizing sexuality. One of the things that our hung up American society has tried to stifle is the natural inclination to explore awakening sexuality. In doing so, they created the backlash we see now, and have seen in the last 40 years. The old Celts would encourage their children to explore these facets of themselves and guide them in a healthy way. We should never deny the sexual nature that we all possess, and nurturing that is, it seems to me, the key to raising well adjusted adults. As a very liberal person, that is what is so troubling about these displays. They seem to want to reduce my young woman to something that I am not willing to allow. This child, indeed all my girls, are being raised to make a difference and leave this place better than what they found it. These types of displays make it difficult, but I will use them as teaching moments as well. Maybe in the abstract, they will even be positive tools.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:10 PM

Well Mooh, I'm honestly not sure if there was a rating for the Superbowl. The ratings are voluntary on the part of the broadcaster. You do bring up a good point, there should have been a rating before the performance. I am betting there was.

One aspect that was lost in all of this - the original intent of the half-time show.   It was meant to touch upon the themes of empowerment and getting out the vote. Those ideas were completly lost in the performance and everything, including the game itself, has been lost in the furor of over the breast.

I also think that SOME of these songs and performances also overshadow the many positive messages and images that come across in songs today, even in rap music. There is a great sense of empowerment and self-worth.

Mary, your description of high school with the loud talk, bullying, language, attitudes towards women, etc. - those were issues in my day. There is nothing new under the sun, except maybe we are now wearing our parents hats!

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:11 PM

The greatest irony of all--not one of you is faulting the NFL/AFL. They are the ones who pay for gig--including Jackson and whats his puny head.

Even greater irony--none of you fault those who bankrolled the gig--the advertisers.

And some of you fear that 12 year olds don't understand what is happening here? Hell, we're adults, and most the adults here don't get what happened.

Everyone who is a regular non-critical TV viewer who doesn't understand that the trashy half-time show is the MTV entertainment segment of the game, which was aired on CBS, doesn't get it.

They are both owned by Viacom. Michael Powell, chairman of the FCC, is playing the smoke and mirrors game over the FCC controversy about the Viacoms of this world buying and peddling their influence, be it with the FCC, the Republican National Committee, the White House, or the National Football League.

Anybody who sat there watching the Superbowl halftime who claims to have been shocked by the incident is either really, really, really fucking stupid, or playing the game of the Republican right agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:13 PM

Frank - John Flynn is one of the best songwriters, performers and human beings to come around in a long time.   His CD "Dragon" was one of my favorites from last year. This is someone EVERYONE should be listening to.

John hasn't yet played the Superbowl, but he has played the Vet many times.   I look forward to seeing him at the new park next year!

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:18 PM

Can you discuss the other breast tomorrow I feel sure it has felt left out - or maybe left in, in this case.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:20 PM

We have tried to teach the girls in our family that they don't want or have to put up with such touchings, rubbings, etc. unless they want to. And we've tried to reinforce it in positive ways, by empowering them as people ("Heck, yeah, go try the climbing wall!") and then by empowering them so that they can do something about it if they have to ("Jiu-jitsu lessons start in ten minutes, girls!"). And we have tried to explain to them the concepts of responsibility and ethics and self-definition and, frankly, I think we've succeeded pretty darn well. None of them feel inferior to anyone else, least of all to the guys in high school.

To whit:

E, to me: "Uncle Mike, I don't think I'll date in high school."
Me: "Why is that?"
E: "'Cause I've gone to school with all of the guys all of my life, and they're all JERKS!"

Or, overheard, niece M. talking on the phone to a friend (she's 13):
"Well, if he were to try that stuff with me I'd break it off and hand him back a bleeding stump." (I hope that she was talking about the guys hands, but I dunno.)

Their paternal grandmother could have rassled a panther while plowing the fields and feedin' the kids at the same time. And their paternal great-grandmother was even tougher. And both fit the classical definition of "a lady."

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:28 PM

Hey Guest - wake up!   The NFL has been blamed by several of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:36 PM

MOOH said:
Dave...So, rehearsing the assault makes it acceptable? Mooh.

No, rehearsing it makes it not an assault.   Not tasteful, not good television, not good morals, but not a wrong against her, not an assault.

I guess I should have put a smiley with my comment. But I hate 'em.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:38 PM

Well, one of the advertisements that appeared right after the breast baring incident was none other than CBS--again, using JJ's tits--hyping JJ's upcoming appearance at the Grammy Awards this Sunday night on...you guessed it (or should I say, I hope you do) CBS.

Capiche? CBS, the NFL and the FCC all got the halftime show they wanted, and the halftime show they paid plenty to get on in primetime. The advertisers know these viewers better than they know themselves, and gave the viewers just what they wanted and were looking for. If you were shocked, you either haven't been paying attention, or you are doing your best to act outraged on behalf of the Republican Right agenda, which is done to act as subterfuge to things like the Bush budget, the debacle of the FCC rules getting changed under the radar in the appropriations bill, and to deflect attention away from the WMD controversy.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 02:43 PM

Guest - AOL sponsored the MTV produced half-time show. There is a story out that they are now asking for money back. Viacom could lose big money. Capiche?

Although I haven't seen it reported yet, I believe that Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake have been removed from the Grammy Awards in the fallout over this incident. Capiche?

As much as I would like to blame George W. for this incident, I don't think your case holds much water.   This was not a ploy by major corporations, this was Janet Jackson acting on impulse.

Subject: RE: BS: Janet Jacksons Breast
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 03:04 PM

Who IS Justin Timberlake and why do we care.