Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,No Fixed Abode
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:31 AM

Hi Dave,
                We are just back from a successful week giging in Norfolk.... Sad to see you making comments about us here.....as Tom says
30 Apr 11 - 08:12 AM   "What I do believe, as a matter of old fashioned manners if nothing else, is that no-one should ever voice an opinion in a public forum (knowing as they should do that their target is very likely to read it) unless they'd be willing to say exactly the same thing to that person's face"

fully agree Tom......as luck would have it we are in Sheffield this Sunday at the New Bath Hotel 66 Victoria Street starting at 9.00pm Dave why don't you come down to the pub and discuss the issues you have about us face to face....hope you can make it.
Thanks Tony
No Fixed Abode

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 05 May 11 - 04:24 AM

Not trying to avoid you but I can't make that.

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,No Fixed Abode
Date: 05 May 11 - 07:05 AM

Hi Dave,
       Sorry to hear that you can't make it on Sunday Dave....perhaps we should meet at Sheffield Live and we can go through the complaints (I assume the station keeps a complaints log as per Ofcom licence requirements) the station received and your grievance with what we did on the show with the station manager......please suggest a date which suits you.
Thanks
Tony

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 05 May 11 - 07:55 AM

   Sorry to hear that you can't make it on Sunday Dave....perhaps we should meet at Sheffield Live and we can go through the complaints (I assume the station keeps a complaints log as per Ofcom licence requirements) the station received and your grievance with what we did on the show with the station manager......please suggest a date which suits you.
Thanks

Not really the place to discuss this. Suffice it to say that the complaints were not to the station but to me personally.

The biggest complaint was from me. I am still waiting for a thank you letter.

But please - don't bother now.

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,No Fixed Abode
Date: 05 May 11 - 09:39 AM

Hi Dave
I am somewhat confused.....perhaps you can clear up a few points for me..... If you do not want to discuss it here why did you make a public statement here that was not in fact based on any official complaints or basis, just gossip amongst your friends. I would have much preferred you to have emailed me privately if you had a grievance.....Why did you feel the need two years after the event to do this? I would have been happy (and still am) to discuss any legitimate complaints. Perhaps it would be better if you could define complaints...

I am also confused about the thank you as I have a copy of an email I sent to you on the 12th Jan 2009 11.30am that thanked you for your help and assistance.....I also asked the young lady who produced the show on the day to pass on my thanks.

Having said all that I welcome you to come and see us perform, it's a pity you have not yet seen us perform live....we are busy over the summer touring but we do have a few gigs in Sheffield you may wish to note
Sunday August 21st The Bath Hotel 9.00pm
Monday August 29th The Rising Sun 9.00pm
Monday November 7th The Rising Sun 9.00pm

I hope that you get the chance to come and see us somewhere down the road
Thanks

Tony

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,Folkiedave
Date: 05 May 11 - 12:20 PM

You are right Tony I shouldn't have mentioned it.

As for your email - sorry my records do not go back that far - but I am sure it never reached me.

Your memory is better than mine.

If I am free I shall come to a gig. But you are wrong - I have seen you perform live - but not recently.

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,No Fixed Abode
Date: 05 May 11 - 02:21 PM

Hi Dave,
               Thanks for that.....I regard the matter resolved.....look forward to seeing you somewhere down the road.
Take care
Tony

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: srothman
Date: 05 May 11 - 08:52 PM

Hey FolkieDave - I got a bit lost somewhere in this thread but my instincts tell me that yer man Tony of No Fixed Abode is a self-aggrandising narcissist - what with him covertly blagging all his gigs - so I wouldn't rush to see him again any time soon - except to punch his smug face - after they've finished playing, naturally.

I've come to this conclusion after wincing my way through their toe-curlingly self-congratulatory website. A handsomely attractive but wholly unconvincing singer and a superfluously flashy guitarist do neither a credible nor creditable combination make.

Yours,
Sean

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 05 May 11 - 10:26 PM

srothman - if you really have looked at Tony and Una's website - you will notice that all the congratulations are not from themselves but from people who have booked them. Perhaps your toes curl naturally because you are the spawn of the devil. Check for a pointy tale and a tendency to carry a trident.

As for Una being an unconvincing singer - well she did a three year residency at Bunratty castle - they don't tend to give those out to the unconvincing singers.

here's an idea why don't you:-

1) go to toilet and have a poo
2) insert stick into toilet
3) rotate stick thoroughly

This may satisfy your need to stir.

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 May 11 - 01:10 AM

srothmans diatribe (hideous though it may be) actually brings the thread topic full circle in a weird sort of why. Why do some people begrudge the success of others? Because, they haven't got the talent to do it themselves!
Simple as that.

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 06 May 11 - 05:25 AM

Totally agree Ralphie! No point in analysing or disapproving of the success of others. Lets face it...we have no idea what sacrifices it took to become Sigue Sigue Sputnik, Lieutenant Pigeon.... or even the bands we don't like. Success as you say, is unfathomable.

I clouded the water by saying that I don't believe (in fact i know damn well) people in places of public trust whose job it is to foster and encourage genuine talent and artistic striving, often don't. Try Simon Napier bell's memoirs of a lifetime spent utilising payola at the beeb. Human frailty is there in every system at every stage.

But THAT was an irrelevance. Nothing to do with the begrudging.

I think we are all guilty of toadying to the successful.I remember the time I was lured to spain to gig the gig the fleshpots of Torremolinos. so I flashed the plastic to get over there with the Lada full of gear.

So I got there and the agent said - sorry Al, I've been too busy wih Elton John tour.

So i said, fair enuff! NOT what I said, when I relised that actually he was fixing a a few gigs for a bloke from Eltham, called John.....Eltham John!

War stories, eh!

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 May 11 - 02:52 PM

Ralphie,
Your statement there is totally untrue and lacking in any logic.(IMHO)
You have no idea about what talent the critics have. They may have chosen to go in another direction that doesn't involve some of the problems Alan has just described. There are some extremely talented people out there who choose to keep their music as a hobby, or prefer the safety of a day job, or indeed a myriad of other reasons why they don't want to go down the publicity road. We are all entitled to our opinions, particularly on a forum like this.

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: ollaimh
Date: 06 May 11 - 03:07 PM

ok i have to ask? who are show of hands?

is this the california folkie trio from the eighties who sang and wrote"i've been patient too long"

they were great at times--un even but that song and their lead singer(olsen i think) was fabulous.

i'm guessing there is anew band called show of hands?

and i loved kate rusby with poozies--they recorded some of the finest folk i've ever heard. haven't heard her recently.

sonce i am part of the "celtic music scare" from the seventies on, when we discovered we had a radition of our own, well i do get tired of bad covers at every folk event.but i love good ones. celtic music does not need drums or rarelt needs bass, and the more aucoustic the better. however the "celtifornian" singer song writers did open the door to a lot of good traditional musicians. stan rogers paved the way for figgy duff and many others.

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 06 May 11 - 03:32 PM

Show of hands are really good. they are a duo - although they sometimes appear with a lady called Miranda Sykes. They are a west country duo - and a lot of their songs are about the west country. steve Knightley is the songwriter, with flowing locks and dark brooding good looks and phil Beer is the folk musician who can play everything stringed. They have an accomplished live act- which does theatres and festivals. They do solo gigs on the folkscene also.

Lond before Show of Hands, Phil beer was in a duo with probably the best folk guitar accompanist in the country - a guy called paul downes. they used to do Steve Knightleys songs back then. Paul and Phil were much loved, but were nevber quite as popular as Show of Hands are nowadays.

here is one of their great songs cousin jack - about the economically depressed area of Britain - Cornwall, how national policies have affected the place and how the miners of that area are scattered to the four corners of the earth.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV5JESfaZ1c

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 May 11 - 03:44 PM

ollainh. Show Of hands are an English male Duo (nrmally bumped up to a trio) who are very popular here in the UK. Even sold out the Roayal Albert Hall in London once once!
Steve G. I fail to see why you regard my post as disingenuous. Of course there are thousands of musicians/singers/dancers...name any art you like here, that decide to either do it as a hobby, or as a sideline to their day job...Indeed, include me in that list. It's just that if an artists/band attempts to push the boat out a little further, and make their artistry their "Day Job", and are moderately successful, shouldn't we all rejoice? Particularly if they get on a programme like "Later".
In all the years I worked for John Peel and Andy Kershaw, There were lots of artists that I may have not been that keen on at the start of a session, but nearly always, by the end of the day, I would have discovered something about them of interest.
My point being, is that to criticise an artist from just seeing 2 songs on BBC2 is a tad harsh.
One of the first people I ever saw in a folk club was Dick Gaughan in 1973. Scary long haired seemingly angry man, singing in an impenetrable accent. Bloody terrifying! Since then, I have worked/recorded him several times, and have discovered what a thouroughly kind and thoughtful man he is.
Never judge a book by it's cover, and never judge a band by 1 appearance on the TV.

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 May 11 - 03:46 PM

The exchange between Ralphie, Al and Steve, reminds me of when Rod Shearman initiated a legal action against Enya for plagiarising Sail Away (which, of course, Rod lost). Jim Mageean went to give evidence in support of Rod, but Enya's counsel asked if he was a career professional singer, and then implied (when Jim said no) that this was because he wasn't good enough to be a professional singer.

Gan Canny....

Kitty

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 06 May 11 - 03:52 PM

"when Rod Shearman initiated a legal action against Enya for plagiarising Sail Away"

Jaw hanging here..
Is that really so?

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 May 11 - 04:01 PM

Lively - yep, quite true. It's on an Enya forum, here , as well as being mentioned on a previous Mudcat thread, here .

Kitty

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 May 11 - 04:12 PM

Ralphie,
I agree totally with everything you've just said, but that is nothing like what you said in the previous post that I criticised. As I've already stated on several occasions, I haven't even seen The Jools Holland thing. That's not what this thread is about. If I see on the box something embarrassing in the name of folk music, I reserve the right, and the right of others, to criticise, and praise.

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 06 May 11 - 06:19 PM

Hiya Nick ..When I was a child we used to have favorite bands that we thought were special to us and only we really knew them and they sang songs that " the man " wouldn't play on his radio station.. Then they took the devils dollar and went over to the dark side...LOL
I guess some of us didn't grow up as we aged eh?
Take care matey and keep playing.

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,Pulseroom
Date: 06 May 11 - 07:47 PM

One of my first public performances back in the 70s was "Punch and Judy Man" John Conolly. My wife said I was brilliant I prefer your version, recently my son heard both and said not true, I prefer john. So! I asked Harry Hill, he said I don't know, who did do it best? Ian or John? He said ......Fight......

Maybe it should have been put to the Mudcatters..... Hmmmm maybe not.

You know, It wouldn't really matter to me what you think? I enjoy what I do, I won't stop whatever anyone thinks or says. I dont think the Unthanks will geve a damn either. Hey! Do they get paid? Wooop Wooop. Maybe there's the answer.

John inspired me to support folk clubs, good on yer mate!!!!

Or am I missing the point?

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 06 May 11 - 09:06 PM

Not strictly true. To my certain knowledge - The Unthanks saw the profound truths our discourse had stumbled upon. In consequence, they decided to split up - one of them entered the library service (which meant taking a vow of slence) - the other stayed in showbiz and accepted a long residency working as a mime act in trappist monastery. Its a responsible job, she has to do a mime informing everyone if the fire alarm goes off.

So you're wrong.

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 May 11 - 02:48 AM

Steve...Well, I have watched the particular Jools Holland programme, a couple of times now, and the Unthanks sat very nicely in it. Considering the other artists on the show. What's not to like? Let us all stop bickering about success. My reason.....?
Because it sounds like jealousy...And, surely we are bigger than that.
Good luck to the Unthanks, and many many more artists, who spend their lives driving up and down the country for very small amounts of money, and, if any of them get a sniff of media coverage. Well, Good Luck to them, Whoever they may be.
I could list countless names that deserve acclaim, and will never get it. But, that is pointless. There are some artists who have done the publicity thing. Maybe not the artists that float your boat, but Hey, Why knock them?

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 07 May 11 - 04:38 AM

Ah yes! the old argument.

The politics of envy..........and anyway the fix is in, so don't rock the stoat! don't unpop the weasel! what the country needs now is stability, so dissenters will be shot.

Subject: RE: Unthanks et al. Why begrudge success?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 07 May 11 - 11:04 AM

What we don't seem to have is a vibrant underground scene ready to spring a load of fully formed and unexpected talent out into a weary waiting world.