Children's Street Songs

Subject: Children's Street Songs
From:
Date: 06 Mar 98 - 07:40 PM

In Philadelphia, at least up into the 50s, you used to hear children (especially girl children) singing songs while they played. The same ones were used generation after generation. It might have gone on after that, but I began to live in neighborhood where there were not many kids.

Since I have lived in Sydney, I haven't heard this. I moved there in '75. So there is a gap in my Philadelphia experience from, say '57 to '75. Can anyone tell me if the custom died out there during that interval. I assume it was a big city pehnomenon, rather than just a Philly one.

I was reminded of this listening to a Smithsonian Leadbelly CD. He does a children's song called Little Sally Walker which he says comes from where he comes from. It goes something like:

Little Sally Walker
sitting in a saucer
turn to the east, turn to the west
turn to the one that you love best

The one I remember goes something like

Little Sally Anne
Sitting in the sand
turn to the...
(The rest is the same.)

If Leadbelly remembers it from his childhood, it has managed travel through a lot of time and space.

Another one was a rope-skipping song starting with

One, two, three, O'Leary

Murray

Subject: Lyr Add: B FOR BARNEY
From: Alice
Date: 06 Mar 98 - 08:32 PM

Murray, I had forgotten the "Little Sally Walker" song... it's been about 40 years since I've sung it!! We did lots of jump rope songs and game songs, too. There is an old Belfast street song to which I had found two verses a year ago. The tune is similar to "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star", with a minor key twist to it. It is called "B For Barney" I wrote additional verses after the first two, so I will share them with all of you Mudcatters!!

B For Barney
(1st 2 verses traditional
the rest by Alice Flynn)

B for Barney, C for Cross, R for my love, Barney Ross.
All the world will never, never know,
How I loved my Barney-O.

A for Apple, P for Pear, Dark is the color of my true love's hair.
All the world will never, never know,
How he loved his lady-O.

O for Orange and G for Green, I'm like you, and you're like me.
All the world will never, never know,
If our parents can see it so.

H for hatred and I for ink, will the peace come, do you think
All the world will never, never know
If the troubles will come or go.

F for fighting and G for gun, when you hear the bullets, you must run.
All the world will never, never know,
If the children will live to grow.

J for Johnny and K for Kate, children sing of love and hate.
All the world will never, never know.
If the love or hate will grow.

B for Barney and C for Cross, R for my love Barney Ross.
All the world will never, never know,
How I loved my Barney-O.
My Barney-O, my Barney-O, and how he loved his Lady-O.

alice, montana

Subject: Lyr Add: A MY NAME IS ALICE
From:
Date: 06 Mar 98 - 09:06 PM

Alice, that reminds me of one that is played with a bouncing ball. It goes through the alphabet, and the girls did some tricks like putting their leg over the ball. If a girl fumbled, or couldn't find the words for the letters they lost their turn. It started our

A my name is Alice and my husband's name is Alan
we come from Alabama where we sell Apples

The pattern is always

xxxx my name is xxxx and my husband's name is xxxx
we come from xxxx where we sell xxxx

Where the xxxx is filled in by names, places and products starting with the different letters of the alphabet.

It is hard to fix the tune. It is more a chant.

Murray

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 06 Mar 98 - 09:38 PM

In my childhood (I was born in '61), we didn't sing songs on the street; we sang them on the bus to summer camp. I think that ended with the invention of cheap radios loud enough to be "enjoyed" by everyone on the bus.

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Will
Date: 06 Mar 98 - 09:58 PM

We do the "My name is xx" as a game on long car trips. Metaphysical bonus points for humourous combinations and odd towns. I like it as a way of digging back into my geographical history. Where else would I get to use "Skookumchuck" and "Yahk" in sentences?

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Moira Cameron
Date: 06 Mar 98 - 10:04 PM

A really good resource for this topic is Iona and Peter Opie's two volume collections of Children's Street songs and lore. They have several street songs and verses from playgrounds around the world. It's amazing how children are singing the same little songs whatever their culture.

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Alice
Date: 06 Mar 98 - 11:48 PM

I remember being at a birthday party when I was about 7, and the mother of the birthday girl was from the Southern US. She taught us a game we played at the party that was two lines of girls walking back and forth, towards and then away from each other. The song was "Walkin' on the green grass, green grass, green grass, Walkin' on the green grass, Rat-ta-tat-ta-tee-i-oh."
What are you doin that for, that for, etc.
We're goin' to get married, married, etc.
Who ya gonna marry, marry, etc.
We're gonna marry, XXX, XXX, etc.
Then the chosen girl would go over to the other side. Anyone else hear of this one? I always connected it to the South, because this mom had a southern drawl, which seemed really exotic in Montana.

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From:
Date: 07 Mar 98 - 07:03 AM

Alice Moira Will and Jerry. I assume you all live in America. Do you still hear children singing them on the streets.

My original posting was to see if the fact that I son't hear children singing them here is a question of time or of place.

As often happens, I got a lot of other interesting information from the posting. Even if you help me resolve the question, it was worth the trouble.

Murray

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Alice
Date: 07 Mar 98 - 11:06 AM

Sorry, Murray, I did go a bit off track of your original question. I just asked my ten year old son if he hears the kids at school singing songs when they jump rope or play games. He said, "Mom, it's winter. There's tons of snow outside. Nobody is jumproping." He always takes me literally when I ask a question. So, I dug deeper. Yes, the little girls still sing songs with the jump rope games. But, I asked if they ever learned games with songs in gym class, and he said, "No, but he plays music on the tape deck sometimes while we are doing stuff in gym." "What kind of music does the teacher play?" "The theme to Mortal Kombat." Sigh,... oh, well. If it is a consolation, the school had their yearly "Hoedown" one evening last week, and the kids spent a day in gym doing square dances. The music for the hoedown was provided by a man who played live music for their gym class, too. He played banjo, button accordian, and guitar, while they learned to dance, and his seven year old son played along with spoons.
alice, in montana

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Alice
Date: 07 Mar 98 - 11:10 AM

Murray, I also remember that when my son was younger, kids were making up parodies to the Barney the Dinosaur song (I hate you, you hate me..) etc. The little boys try to show they are "tough" by coming up with gross lyrics. I think parents of little girls are going to have to give us some feedback on whether game songs and playground/street songs are still being sung.

alice

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Mar 98 - 11:32 AM

I asked my kids if they still sing while jumping rope or bouncing ball & they said they still do, along with neighborhood friends, as a kid (1950's) I remember it as going on non stop. From time to time I see a televised competation on jumping rope, I think it's done to rap now. Barry

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 98 - 04:55 PM

There was a terrific jumprope hypertext archive on a Web site a while back, but I haven't been able to connect there lately.
Here's the URL: http://www.uwf.edu/~stankuli/jrope/jumprope.htm
Anybody know what happened to it?
-Joe Offer-

---

Ah, here is is:

http://www.cs.uwf.edu/~skulikow/jrope3/jumprope.htm

-Joe Offer, March, 2004-

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From:
Date: 07 Mar 98 - 08:02 PM

The consensus seems to be that children still sing as they play (no surprise :), but that they don't sing the same songs.

There was someone who went around the US recording sounds. He/she/they had street vendors, children's play songs, buskers, people who could sing double stops, you name it. It might not have been one person, but a project--maybe even one of those depression projects.

I think the Library of Congress has the recordings now. Does anyone remember who that (they) was (were)? They were played on the radio during the 60s folk revival, so they must be available.

Murray

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: alison
Date: 08 Mar 98 - 12:17 AM

Hi,

I only ever knew the first verse of that Barney one. We did used to sing songs while we threw a ball against the wall "Upsy Mother Brown" and "1,2,3, O'Leary" spring to mind.

there is a good book full of that stuff called "Keep the kettle boiling - rhymes from a Belfast childhood."

slainte

Alison

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Mar 98 - 03:34 AM

Another goodbook to pick up is "I Saw Esau (The Schoolchild's Pocket Book)," by Iona and Peter Opie, with illustrations by the incomparable Maurice Sendak. I picked up a couple of copies on a remainder table for five bucks apies, and it's a wonderful collection of naughty rhymes. I was wondering if it's related to the two-volume set mentioned above.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Alice
Date: 08 Mar 98 - 10:04 AM

Murray, I prodded my memory, and I recall we would also sing the Sally Walker song with the lines, "one flew east, and one flew west, and one flew over the cuckoo's nest." We also did alot of complicated and fast hand clapping songs that we did in pairs of girls facing each other. I know I have seen girls doing this game on tv recently, so that has survived to this generation. I've heard girls my son's age do it to a version of "Mary Mack" Mary Mack, Mack, Mack, ... silver buttons down her back, back, back. The hand clapping songs and rhymes can get really complex. It would be an interesting project to go to schools and collect the current game songs. Any grad students out there looking for a thesis topic?

alice, montana

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Moira Cameron
Date: 08 Mar 98 - 12:33 PM

I'm from Canada, born in Toronto. I remember singing several of these traditional street songs when I was growing up, espescially to accompany skipping or clapping games. As an adult, I can't say I've heard children singing on the streets, because I haven't hung around children in playgrounds lately. I'm living now in Yellowknife, Northwest Territories. We have what we call House Ceilidhs, or song circles, up here. Sometimes children come and participate by telling the latest schoolyard joke or singing the latest street songs. The words to these songs are modernized somewhat, but they are still the same old songs.

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Jon W.
Date: 09 Mar 98 - 05:04 PM

My kids seem to have inherited all their athleticism and coordination from their mother and me, so of course that precludes jumping rope...(Ha ha) Seriously, I've got a bunch of girls (no boys) and I think they still have rhymes and such for jumping rope and other games. The only one I can recall right off hearing them use is "(Joe) and (Sally) sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G. First comes love, then comes marriage, then comes (Sally) with a baby carriage. (substitute appropriate names) I'll ask them tonight.

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From:
Date: 09 Mar 98 - 06:07 PM

Alison, you are just the one to ask! Do you hear children singing the rhymes that you sang on the streets of Sydney.

Sombody else can do that thesis topic. I already did one and in the present pedaphilaphobic climate, I am not about to hang around Children's playgrounds!

Moira, it it is not too personal, what are you doing in the NW teritories?

Murray

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: alison
Date: 09 Mar 98 - 11:31 PM

hi Murray,

Sad sign of the times I think. I don't think kids actually play much in the streets any more like we would have used to.... too many "bad" people around. Not many people even let kids walk to school on their own in case something happens to them. My kids are still a bit young but they do sing to themselves.

When I was young we used to play ball against the wall in the street and had all sorts of rhymes and clapping, and skipping songs. But we were safe in the streets, you could trust people, you knew all of your neighbours and they would look after you.

Kids these days sing and play along with kids music videos

But yes my kids have come home from childcare and sung songs that I remember from when I was small. (A recent example being... " I sent a letter to my love, but on the way I dropped it, someone must have picked it up and put it in their pocket.) It gives me a thrill to hear them remind me of things I used to do.

slainte

Alison

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Bert
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 09:49 AM

Moira,

Glad to hear that you give the children a chance to perform at your sings. We often get the neighbor's kids come in and sing with us.

We hope that it will start a lifetime habit for them.

Bert.

Subject: Lyr Add: CINDERELLA DRESSED IN YELLA
From: Jon W.
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 10:57 AM

From my eleven-year-old daughter come these jump rope rhymes. She says they don't sing them, they are more of a chant than a song. They do this at school during recess.

Cinderella, dressed in yella, went upstairs to kiss a fella,
Made a mistake and kissed a snake, how many doctors would it take?
1, 2, 3, 4,...(count until jumper misses.)

Cinderella, dressed in blue, went outside to tie her shoe,
Goodness gracious, she'll be late. How many seconds did it take?
1, 2, 3, 4,...(count until jumper misses.)

Fudge, fudge, call the judge, (Sally's*) having a baby.
Wrap it up in toilet paper, send it down the elevator,
What shall it be?
Boy, girl, twins, triplets, boy, girl, twins, triplets...
(repeat until jumper misses)
*substitute jumper's name

Teddy bear, teddy bear, turn around,
Teddy bear, teddy bear, touch the ground,
Teddy bear, teddy bear, tie your shoe,
Teddy bear, teddy bear, I love you.

This last one I have also heard sung as a lullaby. The jump rope version has a different rhythm and may have slightly different words.

Another thing they do is call out the names of the 50 USA states in alphabetical order, one state per jump. When the jumper misses, it is said that she will live in that state.

Another chant consists of repeating H, E, L, P, until the jumper misses. Then the letter she misses on signifies what type of jumping she must do next - H for Hot Peppers or High Wire, P for Peppers, and I don't remember what E and L stand for. Nor do I know the meanings of the jump names.

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: dani
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 12:51 PM

What fun! Just this morning my first-grader taught me a clapping song she'd heard at school, and it brought back lots of memories.

Some of the stuff you're talking about was just re-released on a CD by Stephen Wade - he used the Library of Congress Recordings, and if I remember right he went back to some of the places the recordings had been made. Check it out.

Miss Mary MACK MACK MACK!! The first time I saw Ella Jenkins perform, a few years ago at the Folklife Festival on the Mall in DC, she asked everyone to turn to a neighbor and do Miss Mary if they remembered it. I ended up teaching it to my little girl AND a couple of young foreign girls wrapped in scarves and head coverings, who thought it was a hoot. I LOVE the thought of them taking it back to their friends in a faraway place.

THIS is what folk music is all about, if you ask me...

Dani

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 02:03 PM

From my growing up in Shaker Heights, Ohio, the only songs I can remember hearing with games were girls' jump-rope and hand-clapping chants. Girls' games were beneath my boyhood dignity, so the only hand-clap rhyme I remember was "A sailor went to sea sea sea/ To see what he could see see see,/ But all that he could see see see/ Was the bottom of the deep blue sea sea sea."

Our fifth-grade class put on a musical dramatization of the whitewash scene from Tom Sawyer (with a black boy as Tom, a white boy as Jim, and a black girl as Ben--it was the '60s). At one point there were girls playing a game with a song like

What do you do, Punchinello, Punchinello?
What do you do, Puchinello in your shoe?

We can do it too, Punchinello, Punchinello,
We can do it too, Punchinello in your shoe!

I'm not at all sure about the shoe part. This may have been in the script, or it may have been something from the students, in which case for some reason I think it would have been from black girls in the class.

Now in Espanola, New Mexico, I see kids playing in the street or their yards now and then, but I never hear songs or chants. This is a good point to feel sad about the demise of the unique Spanish children's folklore of northern New Mexico.

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Jon W.
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 02:22 PM

Speaking of New Mexican Spanish children's folklore, I spent my 11-12th year in a small town near Silver City (southwest part of the state). There was a practice among my Mexican (or Mexican-American)friends of teasing anyone who had gotten something new (clothes, shoes, toys, etc.) by calling "orejitas" (lit. "little ears") and/or the action of grabbing and shaking the person's ear while making the sound of a ringing bell (ding-a-ling-a-ling). I just wondered if anyone else had heard of that lately (sorry this isn't very musical).

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Susan from California
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 04:15 PM

I think the reason kids don't play in the streets as much as they used to has at least as much to do with the advent of refrigerated a/c as it does with "bad people". There have always been bad people around, we just didn't hear about it as often or as immediately as we do now. But with nice cool air inside, who wants to go out into the hot moist air? The east and south of the US are miserable in the summer! I am lucky enough to live in Southern California, in a near desert community where the days are hot and dry in the summer, but the evenings are beautiful and cool. The kids are either inside or swimming during the day and they venture out in the cool of the evening-and so do the parents! Way off topic. sorry.

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: MarcB
Date: 11 Mar 98 - 12:49 AM

I thought I'd posted to this today or yesterday but it didnt' show up so I must have missed the "submit" button.

What I said was something like(short term memory is the first to go)...

"I have two daughters, 9 and 11, and they very much sing and chant street songs. Mostly used for clapping games, some jump rope, and some just for the heck of it. I can't recall them all but will do a little field research and see if I can capture a few."

Since I wrote that I talked my girls at dinner tonight. They supplied the following which has some tune to it. Done as a hand jive. Two versions, nice and not nice.

Playmate

Say say my playmate
Come out and play with me
and Bring your dollies three
Climb up my apple tree
Slide down my rainbow
and we'll be playmates forever more.

Enemy

Say say my enemy
Come out and fight with me
And bring your devils three
Climb up my poison tree
Slide down my razor
Slam! into the dungeon door
And we'll be enemies forever more.

More later. Marc B

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 11 Mar 98 - 07:15 PM

I haven't heard "orejitas" here.

The second verse of the "playmate" song starts something like

I'm sorry, playmate,
I cannot play with you.
My dolly has the flu--
Boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo.

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Lli
Date: 02 Nov 98 - 01:46 AM

The verse I grew up with was:

I'm sorry, playmate I cannot play with you My dolly has the flu She might throw up on you.

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Nov 98 - 02:50 AM

The Pentatonic Music collection has some interesting street songs.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Nov 98 - 08:32 AM

I will check with my six year old and see what they sing.

I just read through this top to bottom and noticed that nobody posted "I'll Tell Me Ma" which is a very old Belfast kids street song. Hey Alison, were they still singing that when you were a kid. Which, by the way, was not all that long ago. (a little shameless sucking up there folks) :-))

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: alison
Date: 02 Nov 98 - 10:12 AM

Hi Mick,

Crawling will get you everywhere.**grin**

Yes we sang "I'll tell me ma." Another one I remembered the other day was.

My Aunt Jane she called me in, she gave me tea out of her wee tin
Half a bap with sugar on the top, three ?black lumps out of her wee shop.

We used to sing this going round to the shop to buy handfuls of jelly snakes.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Allan S.
Date: 02 Nov 98 - 11:32 AM

Does anyone remember one that started as follows Standing on the corner, not doing any harm along came a copper and grabbed me by the arm he took me round the corner and rang a little bell along came the ding dong going like hell

seven o'clockin the morning i looked upon the wall the roaches and the bed bugs were having a game of ball the score was 7 to nothing and th roaches were ahead when the roaches hit a home run that knocked me out of bed. etc etc.

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Nov 98 - 11:55 PM

Alison et al,

The Clancy's did that version years ago. It is the one that we do when we perform the song. There are several verses beyond the most common ones that people sing now. I am practicing on Wednesday (States Eastern time). I will post the complete lyrics then.

All the best,

Mick who is still crawling

Subject: Lyr Add: JOY TO THE WORLD THAT SANTA'S DEAD
From: Barbara
Date: 03 Nov 98 - 01:44 AM

My daughter came home from third grade school playground singing that Barney song, the Robin/Batman parody and

Joy to the world that Santa's dead
We barbequed his head
And what about his body?
We flushed it down the potty
And round and round it goes,
and round and round it goes
and Rou - ou-ou-ou-ou-ou-ou-ound it goes

She also had a singing and 2 person clapping game "When Susie was as baby... ( different things)" that ended with "Oo, Ah, lost my bra" and the gesture of crossing your hands over your chest. I'll ask her in the morning how it went.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: alison
Date: 03 Nov 98 - 02:08 AM

Hi Barbara,

I remember Susie. She was all sorts of things including a doctor and a teacher. But the verse you're looking for is...

When Susie was a stripper, a stripper Susie was
and she went... ooh aah I lost my bra, left my knickers in my boyfriend's car.

Now how old did you say she was?

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From:
Date: 03 Nov 98 - 05:44 AM

Alan S. That verse about the bedbugs and roaches is in a Furry Lewis song c. 1929.

Murray

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Barbara
Date: 03 Nov 98 - 04:27 PM

She's 12 now, Alison, and learned the song when she was 9 from a friend on the playground. I asked her when I drove her to school, and she had this much more:

When Susie was a teacher
A teacher Susie was
She hit us with a ruler
And gave us great big welts
Call the operator
Give me number nine
Tell Susie not to hit us
And now our hands are fine

And she had Suzie losing her bra as a granny (wonder who misheard that one and what the transition was) "at a party in her boyfriend's car".
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Ewan McV
Date: 03 Nov 98 - 04:41 PM

I just came in from collecting some 24 old and new kids playground songs from eight year olds in a school in Craigmillar, Edinburgh, Scotland, and found this thread.

Every school where I have enquired in in Scotland (some thirty so far)is hotching with such songs. I'll go back to today's school next week and expect to find another 20 songs.

Versions and cousins of many of the songs have been found in Australia within the last ten years. Earlier this year at a conference I saw a video of such games being played in Australia two years ago. Find a book of them called Toodaloo Kangaroo, compiled by Heather Russell, published in Austrralia by Hodder & Stoughton in 1990.

They are all over, but kids on direct enquiry will usually deny that they 'sing songs'. These are not considered 'songs' but activities of some kind. Sing kids a few, like A Sailor Went To See, and ask if they know other similar ones. Don't call them jumprope songs, rope jumping can disappear for years, and the songs get used for clapping, Chinese Ropes, etc.

The words keep changing, and the songs adapt or die, to be replaced. The Folk Process in vigorous action. I'm working on a doctorate on the subject.

Subject: Lyr Add: MISS SUSIE HAD A STEAMBOAT
From: Animaterra
Date: 03 Nov 98 - 04:54 PM

Riding on the bus with my daughter on the way to a field trip last week I heard an old standard from my childhood:

Miss Susie had a steamboat, the steamboat had a bell,
The steamboat went to heaven, Miss Susie went to
Hello, operator, please give me number nine,
And if you disconnect me, I'll kick you right
Behind the 'fridgerator, there was a piece of glass,
Miss Susie sat upon it, and broke her little
Ask me no more questions, I'll tell you no more lies,
The boys are in the girl's room, pulling down their
Flies are in the breadbox, Bees are in the park,
Miss Susie and her boyfriend were kissing in the
D-A-R-K, D-A-R-K, D-A-R-K
Dark is for the movies, movies for the show,
The show is for the tv,and that is all
I know I know my ma, I know I know my pa,
I know I know my sister with the forty-acre bra bra bra!!!

Wonderful 4th grade humor!

Subject: Lyr Add: WHITE MAN, HE SMELL LIKE CASTILLE SOAP
From: gargoyle
Date: 03 Nov 98 - 11:46 PM

From my mother's days...on the Colorado prairies....at the "Buckeye School"

White man, he smell like Cas-teel Soap
Nigga, he smell like a ol' billy goat
An I don....like a nigga.
An I don....like a nigga.
No How!

It is sung in the tune of a 4/4 "one", "four" chord.
(ie key of C) GGGE,EEG-G,FFFD,DDF-F,FFEC,CCC-,ECCC-,D-C-.

Not PC....sorry...this one I believe dates back to the civil war....(and from the "Union Side" ta boot.)

Subject: Lyr Add: BILL BONES' GOAT / ...GROGAN'S...
From: Little Robyn
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 04:33 AM

I'm looking for some extra words to one that was on a Folkways record I once had, called 'One, two, three and a zing, zing, zing'. I no longer have the record - I sent it to Iona and Peter Opie many years ago, before photocopy machines were easy to find, tho' I did make a cassette copy. I don't even remember the correct title of the song. It was a call and response type of song with the group repeating each line (except the very last one).

There was a man          (There was a man)
By the name Bill Bones    (By the name Bill Bones)
He had a goat             (He had a goat)
That he called his own.   (That he called his own)

Now this 'ere goat       (etc)
Was feeling fine
Ate six red shirts
Right off the line.

First Billy cursed
And then he swore
'This dogone goat
Will chew no more.'
   
He took him by
His wooly back
And tied him to
A railroad track.

There's another verse in here that I learnt elsewhere but can't remember it all -
.......
.......
Coughed up the shirts
And he flagged the train.

The engineer stopped
Got out to see
What this strange sight
On the track could be.

When he saw what it was
A woolly goat
Took out his knife
And he cut his throat.

Now this old goat
Was surely dead
He went to Heaven
Without a head.

And when he got there
Saint Peter said
'My dear old goat
Where is your Head?'

The goat replied
I cannot tell
It must have gone
Right down to (spoken)HELLO FOLKS!

The record also included 'Sipping Cider' in a similar style.
Can anyone fill in the blanks please. We've found a Robert Service poem with a very similar story but ending where the goat flags down the train.
Robyn

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 07:16 AM

Am I right in assuming the following song, made popular by an American girl group, is based upon a childrens street song over in the US?

Two, four, nine,
The goose drank wine,
The monkey chewed tobacco on the street car line.
THe line broke,
The monkey got choked,
They all went to heavan in a little row boat.

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 10:19 AM

Here's one I heard from my niece 30 years ago

Boys have the muscles,
teachers have the brains.
Girls have the sexy legs
and we win the games.
Yay!

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: ReeBop
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 12:08 PM

Ok, for me it wa only a couple years ago that I was on the playground. We did a lot of hand clapping and jump rope songs. "Oh the preacher went down" "Miss Mary Mack" "ci ci my playmate" were some of our favorites...but we also did "Yellow Submarine" "Waltzing Matilda" and anyting with a beat that we could play with.

Also, we had a bunch of versions of Yankee Doodle and "Krack Diddly O Ka" that had different "hand games" to them.

As for now...yes the kids still play in the street. I live in a very neighborhood type of NYC neighborhood on the first floor. I spend quite a bit of time at my window watching the local kids and -- boy can they play. Double Dutch and Jumping Rope mixed with break dancing. And one of my favorites from this past fall was a group of really little kids in a circle around one kid at a time singing "go _____ it's your birthday" which is a tag line in a popular rap song from this summer--it's actually a difficult rhythm that these 3 to 6 year olds had down perfectly.

And sometimes I hear old tunes that I know with new Spanglish lyrics...

Oh yeah, there is an ever-changing "Miss Mary Mack/oh you can't get to heaven" mix that I used to sing and I've heard some new "veses" to.


and there's this one that I've heard so many versions of:

A B C
it's easy as 1 2 3
yer mama's got funky feet
oosh ahsh I want a piece of squash
sqhash too sweet I want a piece of meat
meat too tough I wanna ride a bus
Buss too full I wana buy a bull
bull too black I want my money back
money too green I want a limosine
Limosine too long
I wanna write a song
song too old I want a pot of gold
gold to yella' I wanna kiss a fella
fella too fat
and that's the end of that

or
gold too yellow I'll Tickle you with a feather (and you reach out and try to tickle the person who you're playing with)

that's all I can remember right now...

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 12:21 PM

Little Robyn - do a search on "Bill Grogan's Goat" and you'll find plenty.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 12:43 PM

This thread is drifting all over the place. I love it! So no apologies for a bit more drift. An experiment my wife, Val, and I conducted a few weeks ago:

Ask any adult you like (but not a Mudcatter) how many nursery rhymes they know. Most will answer 'Oh, maybe a dozen' or will offer an even smaller number. Suggest that they know more than 20 and hardly any will agree.

Val and I decided to do a count and found we were word perfect (if the term is permissible in this context) in more than 70 - and we don't think that this is in any way an exceptional score. Try it. Write a list and keep adding to it as your memory comes up with them!

Furthermore, our grand daughter, not yet four, was familiar with most of our 70-plus. Without prompting she had difficulty reciting more than half a dozen, but she could join in on the majority. Interestingly, her preference is very much for rhymes where she can make up bits ('Aikin Drum' for example, puts no strain on the memory. Once you've got the general hang of it you can improvise).

Returning to the thread proper, I collected a pretty street rhyme many years ago, from a teacher who remembered it from her own childhood. It goes to a snappy, skippy little tune:

Off to the butchers I must go, I cannot wait any longer;
My mother said that I must not play with the boys down yonder;
White stockings, blue garters, hair tied up with silver,
A red rosette upon my chest and a gold ring on my finger.

Have never heard it since.

One reason you don't hear much like this today (apart from the fact that you won't hear if you don't listen) is that the urban streets of totally car-orientated populations are pretty hostile places. With both sides of the street lined with parked cars and the centre serving as a race track for saloon tanks, a child would be crazy to play any game that requires space, like 'Please Mr Fisherman' or 'What's the Time Mr Wolf?'

The saddest thing is that the drivers bombing through the middle are all too often parents who have been trained by their paranoid newspapers to see a paedophile around every corner - so they drive their kids to schools less than a mile away from home.

I don't know the answer, but offer the thought that irrational fear and automobile culture are major causes of obesity and the destruction of traditional lore.

Ah - I feel better now!

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Little Robyn
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 01:54 PM

Thank you Becky. It is Bill Grogan's goat and the tune is there too! For those interested, the missing words are:

The whistle blew,
The train drew nigh
This poor old goat
Was doomed to die,

He gave 3 groans
Of awful pain
Coughed up the shirts
And flagged the train.

I see the DT version doesn't have the 'went to heaven without a head' bit. Was that added by the street kids, I wonder - one of those songs that give you a chance to say a forbidden word like HELL-o.
Now, I think I need to go teach that song to some of the kids over here!
Robyn

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: s & r
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 03:36 PM

What we need is more school songs and playground games - all they appeared to do nowadays is want to fight!

Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs
From: Megan L
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 04:06 PM

this set the old grey matter ticking again. we sang things like
Down in the jungle
one two three oleary
I'm shirley temple
Sally in the kitchen
the big ship sails down the ealy ally o
ma maws a millionaire
ring a rosey

and a ball song i wish i could remember about soldiers lying dieing, although this was the early 60s it runs in my mind the song refered not the ww 1 or 2 but perhaps Boer or krimea war.