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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Dave'sWife Date: 09 Oct 07 - 08:52 PM Oh you just luve luv luv being 100! So - what about my theory that it's a covert threat from the Black Hand or The Axe-Man? Any takers? |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 09 Oct 07 - 10:38 PM Kanaka is the word for man in the Hawaiian language, a human being. As an adjective it means manly, strong. After c. 1820, after the kapus and relationships broke down, many young Hawaiian men needed employment and became sailors or whalers, or were hired out by the Crown to companies needing workers; they became carpenters, builders, Canadian voyageurs, fishermen, farmers, cowboys, etc. Looking for documents on some who were contracted to work for the Hudsons Bay Company, I found much of interest in the archives in Honolulu. Sailors and others called them Kanakas, and 'John' and other names were used to identify individuals. There was no specific 'John Kanaka,' but many probably answered to that name at their work. Kanaka Creek in British Columbia is named for the Hawaiians who were farmers, carpenters and builders for the Hudsons Bay Company. They built Fort Langley, packed salmon, shaped lumber, raised crops, etc. much of which reached the Hudsons Bay store in Honolulu. Many returned to Hawai'i when their term of employment was completed, but some stayed, and descendants remain in B. C. PoppaGator is correct in his use of 'term'; Kanaka became a widely used term for these men. All of this is digression which has nothing to do with Marti Gras in New Orleans, and the various myths and speculations about the song which have appeared in this thread. Dave's Wife- Your speculation about the Black Hand of N. O. is an interesting addition to the mythology. The Italians, as well as the Irish, were important in 19th c. N. O., and their stories are not well-known (Now could the song be mis-heard Gaelic?- oh, no!). |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Azizi Date: 10 Oct 07 - 08:21 AM Dave's wife, it's good "seeing" you again! I agree that the Black Hand/Italian Mafia theory is "an interesting an interesting addition to the mythology". I also guess we'll never really know the meaning/s that this phrase had for folks who started using it way back when. My 03 Aug 07 - 07:56 AM post pretty much sums up my thoughts about this saying. So, I'm not gonna repeat myself. Let the good times roll! Azizi |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Dave'sWife Date: 13 Oct 07 - 01:22 AM I went and looked up some more about the Axeman and all but 2 of his alleged victims were Italian. Fi na Ne most likely is a varient of Fine meaning "Done" or "Finished". I'm settling into my theory now. There was some thoery that the Axeman was named Joseph himself but that couldn't be proven conclusively (Joseph Mumfre) but it makes sense since he singled out The Feast of St. Joseph in his famous threat. Feast of your the Saint of your name was and remains a big deal to Italians (and Irish Catholics to a degree). I may be alone in supporting this derivation, but I'm liking it more and more. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Amazzed Date: 17 Nov 07 - 12:01 PM I have spent the entire morning reading these Iko comments and it was time well spent. This is my first time at this site.I was interested in the translation of the non english words in this song and just could not find anything but a copy of the lyrics and names of those who recorded it.(over and over again). I am a fan of unusual music and teach it to my grandchildren.This is my conclusion the interpretation depends entirely on the spelling of the words and they seem to be slang.My grandmother was raised in the rural south by her grandmother.They had many terms in their vocabulary that are not in the dictionary.For example a rampshon was a large quantity of anything. I am now a big fan of this sight. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Azizi Date: 17 Nov 07 - 05:26 PM Hello, guest Amazzed. Welcome to Mudcat! Joining this discussion forum is easy. All you have to do is click on Membership in the top right hand portion of this page and follow the instructions. Whether you join or remain a guest, I hope you share more information on Mudcat about the music and folk culture that you teach to your grandchildren. Best wishes, Azizi |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,MDaviet Date: 09 Jan 08 - 12:42 PM The literal translation of the Cajun phrase "fi na ne" is don't stop the food or don't stop the goodies. To someone in New Orleans, it refers to a non-stop party. (Thus, the lyrics in City Beneath the Sea: "fi na ne 'til three") |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Neil D Date: 09 Jan 08 - 03:05 PM So what orwho is Jacomo? A waiter? |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,A Creole Muur Date: 05 Feb 08 - 02:07 PM Jacomo = joking/jester fi na ne = finis/finished All joking is done! hence, the setting of flags on fire. Don't know how this one fits in with the Jacomo. But FYI, Captain Jack is an indian who fought to keep the Europeans from their westward movement in stealing the indians land. As late as 1841, this land was the etats unidos de mejico. Even before that the indians fought the french for Louisiana & lost. The Louisiana Purchase was the selling of the forts and the roads leading up to it. When they illegally jacked the land, the indians/aboriginals took a stand to fight. The Washitaw Nation (Nat Turners descendants) in Louisiana have won their land back that was illegally caught up in the Louisiana Purchase. Attempting to fit that in and knowing that in many languages there isn't a proper English translation. Maybe the line is Jack (Either Capt Jack or Jack being a symbol of all the indians) is finished playing with you. It's time to kill you. The grandma's = Queens of each family (matriarchs) sat down to negotiate about the land. Couldn't come to a common ground and so the war to inihilate the other ensues. They send the Kings to battle. The man dressed in green is a loving machine. The indians practiced love, truth, peach, freedom and justice. It's a war song. Before you go into war you fast. Hence, the timing with Lent: 40 days/40 nights. Still putting 2n2 together from our history and folktales |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: PoppaGator Date: 06 Feb 08 - 01:15 PM Interesting post to have appeared yesterday, on Mardi Gras Day 2008. When trying to nail down particulars, the finest details, we're geting into territory where NO ONE knows the true answers. If the current-day Big Chiefs and tribe members don't know for sure, believe me, the "outsider" experts are really just guessing. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: EBarnacle Date: 06 Feb 08 - 02:47 PM It means that Mardi Gras was yesterday. Have a good Lenten fast. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Azizi Date: 22 Mar 08 - 07:24 PM Here's a version of this song that I just found on this website of children's rhymes: http://www.streetplay.com/discus/cgi-discus/show.cgi?75/75.html Girl Games Clap and Rhyme: Archive through June 8, 2000 My grandmother and your grandmother, sittin by the fire My grandmother says to your grandmother, gonna set your flag on fire Talkin bout hey now, hey now, iko iko anay Talkin bout fena, ana lay, talkin bout fena lay. My fat boy and your fat boy, sittin by the fire My fat boy says to your fat boy, gonna set your flag on fire Talkin bout hey now, hey now, iko iko aney Talkin bout fena, ana lay, talkin bout fena lay. -By Anonymous on Monday, May 1, 2000 - 06:37 am ** I wouldn't be surprised if the children who recited this rhyme {while doing handclaps or jumping rope?} hadn't ever heard the "Iko Iko" song. How 'bout this rhyme as an example of folk etymology? I'm just lovin it. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie Date: 23 Mar 08 - 02:57 PM I haven't the strength to read through the whole thread, so maybe somebody already said this--but anyway: "Jacomo fino" means that James is dead. You got "Jacomo finane" from an extra nonsense syllable tacked on the end: "Jacomo fino, eh!" The reason it's important that the old grouch has kicked the bucket is that he was a real curmudgeon and didn't believe in allowing all the shenanigans that people liked to indulge in when celebrating Mardi Gras. Now that he's gone, we can let 'er rip. Jacomo fino, hey, hey, hey; Have more fun on holiday .... Wild T. The Jacomo in question was a real person in New Orleans, and somewhere I have more info on this stashed away, but I have to find motivation to look for it. :) So there you go. Chicken Charlie/Charles Poulet |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie Date: 24 Mar 08 - 10:18 AM I found the source of my insight: liner notes from the 33 rpm with "Meet the boys from the battle front ...." I wanted to refresh this thread anyway. CC |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Mr Red Date: 24 Mar 08 - 08:27 PM As I always say about songs/customs that are old - you can't fully understand (even with sensible lyrics) unless you lived in those times - I offer the Monty Python sketch as further evidence "You try telling young people today and they just won't believe you". And as with Shanties - if there were two meanings there is no law (or lore) that says they can't both apply. Even in the mind of one person, let alone a whole tribe. And if "Iko Iko" is proving hard to pin down - how about the "Jolly Trolley" chorus in "A Trooper Watering his Nag"? And what would "Tra La La" mean 100/200/300/400 etc years ago - a meaning for every century plus the modern one of "nonsense". See that King all dressed in red? ........ |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie Date: 24 Mar 08 - 08:46 PM Yes, oh relative one, but Jacomo fino/fina still means Jimmie is cold and stiff. He's not a waiter, and he's not a Hawaiian. Now I'm going to go back and count the posts that start out, "I don't know anything about this, but ....." CC |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Azizi Date: 24 Mar 08 - 09:39 PM I don't know anything about this, but ....." Sorry. I couldn't resist the temptation. Carry on! |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie Date: 24 Mar 08 - 11:49 PM Azizi--If we could resist the temptation, we wouldn't be in Mudcat. :) |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Azizi Date: 25 Mar 08 - 12:13 AM Well, there's some temptations that I can resist. But I'm not tellin which ones those are or aren't. Hey now! Iko Iko all day [since] Jacomo finane, let the good times roll! :o)) But this doesn't mean that I completely accept the explanation you cited, Chicken Charlie. Maybe there's more than one meaning. Maybe there's a literal meaning for that phrase, and one or more colloquial meanings. And maybe those colloquial meanings changed overtime or in different circumstances among different populations of people. I don't know anything about this...really. But I'm having a good time thinking about it. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Mr Red Date: 25 Mar 08 - 08:47 AM So am I Any song that mentioned the man dress in red gets my attention. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,¢¾ RezzaBo ¢¾ Date: 23 May 08 - 07:19 AM Ok, this is just way too confusing. I've looked up lyrics to the song but can't get any translations so far I know it could mean: "Help I've fallen and can't get up", "Get out of my way" A man's name, or " Jack is dead" Yeh, that's useful! And I can't even determin which one fits best because I have no idea what "Iko, Iko Unday" Means! Plus it's by heaps of people: Aaron carter, Cyndi Lauper, and some other early version and apparently it's a clapping rhyme! This is not very useful information! The reason nobody can translated into the direct meaning is everybody has different opinions on what language it's in. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:59 PM So um........ What's the song about!?!?!LOL I have spent to much time reading, and have no time to jump in, but I will be back. You guys are all pretty intelligent! I just wanted to know if I was teaching my child some horrible song!! ( i just found out what ring around the rosie was all about!!) |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Azizi Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:45 PM i just found out what ring around the rosie was all about!! -GUEST 16 Oct 08 I absolutely don't want a discussion about the meaning of the game song "Ring Around The Rosie" to be mixed into this discussion about the meaning of the words to "Iko Iko". That said, Guest 16 Oct 08, I hope you read this Mudcat thread before you tell your child that made up story about the meaning of that children's game that keeps on being discounted but people still keep passing it on as the truth and nothing but the truth. Pay heed to these words from yesteryear {or thereabouts}: Subject: RE: Origins: Ring Around The Rosey's History?? From: BuckMulligan - PM Date: 15 Jul 06 - 12:33 PM danensis, while there may be links between some "nursery rhymes" and events in history, that's insufficient evidence for linking a particular rhyme to a particular event. Linguists, etymologists, and folklorists generally refuse to accept the link between "plague" or "Black Death" or any other particular event, eipdemiological or otherwise, and the "rind [sic] around the rosy" rhyme. It is a "folk etymology" unattested by hard evidence. You can still believe in it if you like, of course, but you're engagin in an act of faith, not science. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST Date: 03 Jan 09 - 12:29 AM Do you remember what movie had a scene of the Dixie Cups recording this song? They were banging on a coke bottle. What movie was that? I'm a music teacher and I'm trying to find it for my class. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Azizi Date: 03 Jan 09 - 05:31 PM fergie38, I don't know which movie you are referring to. But here are links to two YouTube videos of The Dickie Cups singing "Iko Iko: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrHdbZN5K2s Dixie Cups - Iko, Iko. [The poster's summary just says "show". I wrote a comment asking for information about which television show and what year it was filmed, The women are shown performing on a stage, and not shown banging on a glass bottle. However, I've read that the song was recorded as the women were "fooling around" in between takes at a recording studio. I doubt that there is actual footage of the first time they sang this song that they learned in New Orleans. ** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D21nsqe0F-4&feature=related Iko Iko- The Dixie Cups [This is the original recording of the Dixie Cups singing "Iko Iko"; there is an album cover of the group and there's no video] |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Azizi Date: 03 Jan 09 - 05:34 PM fergie38, let me hasten to say that I didn't mean to imply that there's no such movie scene. I just meant that unfortunately, I know nothing about it. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,toddletunes Date: 10 May 09 - 12:10 AM Hi y'all, I'm fascinated by the diatribe generated by this topic!!! Given all the reference to Italianism i.e. Giacomo, etc... has anyone considered (as it sounds on Dr. John's recording) 'Andante' is the Italian name for the tempo describing walking? As in Giacomo fino (is done) an-dan-day (walking) Think 'Jack don't walk this earth no more, Jack is dead' as you listen to Mac sing 'Jockomo fino an-dan-day, Jockomo fin-a-ne' I'm not sold on any particular interpretation btw, but that resonated with my interpretation. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST Date: 21 Jun 09 - 07:56 PM Mbo - you are a freaking tool & a utter & bloody disgrace to the mane of all italians!! - Giacomo or Jacomo is JAMES!!! - Giovanni is John!! Stupido stronzo che non sei altro!! |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: PoppaGator Date: 22 Jun 09 - 01:56 PM There are too many Mudcat threads of this subject to keep track of. A month or two ago I responded to a similar thread ~ one NOT among the "Related Threads" listed above ~ after reading an interesting article on this topic which was published in Offbeat magazine. The writer had some intriguing things to say after visiting West Africa and hearing some very familiar singing. I wanted to post a link to the piece, but the magazine's website hides many articles (including this one) from the public and makes them accessible only to registered paid-up subscribers. The magazine is distributed free of charge in New Orleans, so local folks like me have no reason (except for philanthropy) to subscribe. So ~ no way to link to the published text. Best I could do was to scan the page (it was a one-full-page article) and email it to Azizi. Maybe there's some way to get it out to all the rest of y'all in general, like perhaps via the Mudcat group-page at Facebook. I found the author's theories regarding African origins to be quite plausible ~ in large part because he also showed an basic understanding of Mardi Gras Indian culture. The song/chant IS, after all, part of that culture. I can't take seriously those theorists who advance their guesses without such knowledge. For example, anyone who would transcribe a given lyric as "my fat boy told your fat boy" is betraying their ignorance of the most basic Mardi Gras Indian lore ~ it's flag boy! |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Jdoggtn Date: 09 Aug 09 - 01:22 AM I have always theorized that Jockamo Finane meant "Kiss My Ass", although I was never sure exactly why. At least one reason was the context in a Wild Tchoupitoulas song: "If you don't like what the Big Chief say, you just jockamo finane." While it's possible that Jocka-mo could be taken as a proper name (and certainly it is used as such for a lot of Louisiana-themed restaurants), I doubt that it's a proper name, any more than Two-way pocky-way or any other of the Mardi Gras Indian dialect words. The latter phrase has been theorized as being from the Spanish "Kill anyone in front of you", i.e. who blocks your path, which makes the "Kiss My Ass" theory more likely for jockamo etc. After all, these chants, with their references to spy boys and flag boys are describing the Mardi Gras or St. Joseph's Day rituals of Indian 'gangs" confronting each other. These meetings in the old days were often violent, hence the references to "Corey" dying on the battlefield, or "Brother John" being gone. My theory is that these songs relate to specific deaths resulting from Mardi Gras Indian battles of older days (the 1930's perhaps), which could possibly be found in back issues of the Times-Picayune if someone had the time and inclination. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Tomas Date: 16 Jan 10 - 09:46 PM Well, just to add to the confusion, concerning IKO, "N Ko" means "I say" in Malinki, Mandingo, Bambara and several other Mande related West African languages, and a very common way of starting a sentance, a bit like "Hey man..." or similar. Now, could it possibly??? It is probably not true, but any way sort of true in a funny historical way... |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Ross Campbell Date: 17 Jan 10 - 06:01 AM Azizi's links above seem to have lapsed. Here's another:- Dixie Cups - Iko Iko Ross |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,daggerdave Date: 03 Feb 10 - 02:47 PM anyone know the meaning of two way pocky way? or where it came from? |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: mousethief Date: 03 Feb 10 - 03:31 PM I love this song. Nothing substantial, that's all. O..O =o= |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Yanne Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:03 AM I've been reading this thread with interest, especially as it's been going for nearly ten years now! Personally I never had much of a problem with the words of 'Iko, Iko' apart from a couple of blanks (due to fluent French plus great trips to the Creole Caribbean French islands and Cajun and Creole speaking Louisiana), but now I see that quite a lot of people are genuinely interested in the origins of the words. So I did some serious research (below) and I can tell you the words in Creole, with their French and English meanings. The song "Iko, Iko" made its debut as "Jock-o-mo" in 1953. It was written by a 19 year old black musician named James Sugar Boy Crawford who copied down the ceremonial war chants of opposing Black Indian tribes who faced each other off during the Mardi Gras festivals in New Orleans. Since 1965 when the Dixie Cups made it into a hit, the song has been known as "Iko, Iko". The song's words are neither impenetrable nor gibberish, as some people seem to think. They are also neither old French nor Cajun French. They are Kreyol Lwizian (Louisiana Creole). The reason the song is sung with different words by Crawford, the Dixie Cups, The Grateful Dread and others is because none of these people speak Creole. And other British and American singers are in the same boat. You need some history to understand the real words. First, there's a controversy you should know about. In a 2002 interview Crawford says he phonetically copied down two chants. One was "Iko, Iko" - the other was "Jockomo fee no wah na nay". Sugar Boy Crawford said he then amalgamated the two separate chants and put them to music - and a great song was born. The only problem with this story is that the chant "Hey now! Hey now! Iko! Iko!" is entirely absent from Crawford's "Jock-o-mo" released in 1953. Why tell a journalist you copied down two chants and amalgamated them and then go to a recording studio and only sing one of the chants? You don't need to take my word for it. Go to www.deezer.com and type in 'Jockomo' in the search box and you'll hear Crawford's 1953 hit free of charge. There's no 'Iko! Iko!' in the lyrics. The words "Iko, Iko" only appeared twelve years later, in 1965, when the Dixie Cups recorded it on the Redbird Records label. The girl band claimed that they didn't understand the words themselves (not speaking Creole) and learned them parrot-fashion from their grandmother. A lawsuit lodged by Sugar Boy Crawford claiming that the Dixie Cups version of the song was based on his original Jock-o-mo 1953 version was settled out of court. In his 2002 interview with Offbeat.com Crawford said he considered that it was better to have 50% of something than 100% of nothing. I think the 50% settlement was really due to the fact that Crawford wrote half the song and the Dixie Cups wrote the other half. The "Jockomo fee no wah na nay'' lyrics were indeed first introduced by Crawford in 1953, but the "'''Iko, Iko'''" part wasn't, because it was introduced by the Dixie Cups. Leaving aside the legal aspects of the claim, it's fascinating to know that the Dixie Cups had learnt the words parrot-fashion from their grandmother. So someone other than Crawford was also writing down (or remembering) the Black Indian chants at Mardi Gras in New Orleans! The Black Indian chants, even though they have words of French origin, have everything to do with Creole French, and nothing to do with Cajun French (which though it was also 'old French', adhered to French syntax and grammar). Louisiana Creole, though similar to French, has a syntax of its own – it's basically pidgin-French, with grammar that would make a Frenchman cringe and with words that are foreshortened and spoken with flat accents in quick, rapid-fire delivery. Louisiana Creole originated from French descendants of the formerly French colony of Louisiana settled by King Louis IV (till Thomas Jefferson bought it in 1803 in the Louisiana Purchase). The language was that spoken by the slaves of the French colonists, so it's black French, and it was widely spoken by New Orleans black population till English gradually took over as the main language. Unfortunately, the Creole language was never written down (seriously) for 200 years except for a few poems or songs. Now, it's starting to be, but dictionaries are rare, and often incomplete. Some dictionaries that do however stand out are "Le Dictionnaire Créole" - "Le Dictionnaire Sioudi" - Louisiana Creole Vocabulary from angelfire - The Creole/English Wordlist" - the Verbix Creole conjugator – and perhaps the best is Webster's Creole/English dictionary. Most of you in the thread seem to know a lot about the Black « Indian » tribes so I won't digress on them except to say there are now about 40 Indian tribes. It wasn't always so. "Jelly Roll" Morton (born Ferdinand Joseph Lamothe), the American jazz pianist, bandleader and composer, was a Spyboy in his youth, and revealed that at that time there were only four or five Black Indian tribes in New Orleans. A good description (not mine) of the confrontations is: "One by one, dancing in toe/heel fashion, each member of a tribe meets his counterpart. Spyboy first meets Spyboy. Flagboy meets Flagboy. Wildman, then first, second, and third chiefs, queen(s) and children - all meet and play out their traditional roles. And finally one Big Chief faces the other. Knees bent, arms outspread, swaying from foot to foot and turning in a circular motion, the chiefs slowly size up each other. This preening proves especially effective for showing off the costumes. Prestige for the tribe is garnered through the beauty and intricacy of the suits, role playing, and the strength of its presence in the community". The chants are generally in the Call and Response fashion – in fact very much as the Dixie Cups sang the song. The tribe and its crowd of enthusiastic followers "respond", sometimes chanting a traditional chorus of words that have no common meaning and often derived from the early Creole language. These songs, although similar, are rarely sung in the same way by all the tribes although they lay claim to the same common repertoire. The tempo may be relaxed or fast depending upon the mood of the singers, but it remains consistent throughout the chant. Competition is nurtured in a creative climate that awards prestige and respect to the person who is able to out-sew, out-dress, and out-sing another Black Indian of equal rank from another tribe The chants are Creole in origin but are badly deformed by the Black "Indians". Sybil Kein writes: 'The chants of the Mardi Gras Black Indians have been diluted over the years by American black speech. A good example of Black Indian creole is in the chant or prayer that opens their Mardi Gras observance. They sing "Madi cu defio, en dans dey" which is a corruption of the old Creole song "M'allé couri dans déser" used in connection with Voodoo rituals and associated with the Calinda dance'' (Wilson, "Traditional Louisiana French Folk Music", pg 59; Mrs. Augustine Moore, interview with author, 1980). "Iko, Iko" and "Jockomo" were two of these Black Indian chants. ==The phonetic words of the song Iko Iko== The words as they are sung today are: Hey now, Hey now Iko, Iko, an day Jockomo fee no wah na nay Jockomo fee na nay'' Some singers deform the original lyrics – for example Dr. John signs "Hed now, Hed now" which isn't Creole, Cajun, French, old French, Quebec French, or even English – it's pure artistic license. As you know, many singers covered Iko, Iko. You can hear all their different versions free of charge on deezer.com by typing in "Iko, Iko" into the search box. Anyway, though musically richer, these newer versions consistently stray from the original. If the song is still being sung 500 years from now, one wonders what the words will have evolved to! Let's start with the word "Jockomo". Sugar Boy Crawford wasn't the only singer to use the word Chocomo (as he sang the word) or Jock-o-mo (as the record label misheard and entitled the song). The most oft-recorded Indian tribe, Big Chief Boudreaux and the Golden Eagles, issued "In the Morning, Jockomo", the Krewe Renegades recorded "Jockomo Zydeco", Huey Piano Smith's song "Don't You Know Yocomo" can be heard on Deezer.com and Danny Baker's song released on King Zulu Records had lyrics of "Choco Me Fee ndo Hey". Jocomo is basically a name – and it's the only contestable part of what I'm writing because its origin is uncertain, even in Creole. I see from the long thread that many of you have different meanings for Jocomo. - Giacomo (from the Italian) - Junkamo - Jester or Jokester (Dr. John said this on the sleeve of one of his albums) - John Jolly (apparently a famous former Big Chief tribe leader) I find it hard to accept that Jackomo is 'Jester' despite Dr. John's huge reputation. The French, the Cajuns and the Creoles would all refer to a jester as a "fou", or as a "buffon" (buffoon in English) as the court of Louis IV did. Even the Joker in a deck of playing cards isn't called a 'Joker' but a 'fou'. If further proof be needed, not one of the Creole dictionaries or lexicons I refer to above cite the word Jockomo for 'jester'. I don't think it can be Junkamo either (just doesn't sound right), nor John Jolly - wasn't he a genuine Cherokee Indian who lived in Houston, not a Black Indian from New Orleans? In fact, I've read letters between John Jolly and Sam Houston in 1837, written when Houston was the beginnings of a township when John Jolly was seeking protection of Native American rights and traditions. I can see three possible alternatives. That Jocomo or Jackomo was a name is obvious, but it may have been a derived name. It may have been Jacques, to which 'mot' was added affectionately meaning "Small Jack", or "Dear Jack" or "Our dear little Jack" – much as Pierrot is used for Pierre, and Jeannot for Jean. Or it could be 'Birdman' – the 'Jaco' is Creole for a perroquet (parrot) and some of the Black Indian costumes are of men completely covered in feathers with a pseudo beak – le Jaco – easily turned into Jaccomo. Or it could have been a monkey suit, from Jaquot (a monkey) but this is less likely because Jacquot is Creole for monkey in other Creole speaking parts of the world rather than in Louisiana. Anyway, I hope we can all agree that Jocomo, whatever its origins, was a NAME. Now we come to the critical lines: Hey now! Hey now! Iko, Iko an day Jockomo fee no wah na nay Jockomo fee na nay The first two lines were originated by The Dixie Cups in 1965, the second two were initiated by Sugar Boy Crawford in 1953. These are genuine French Creole-origin sentences which were adapted in the Black Indian chant and which paid scant respect to the rules of French grammar. In Creole they are: Ena! Ena! Akout, Akout an deye Jocomo fi nou wa na né Jockomo fi na né In English, this equates to: Hey now! Hey now! Listen, listen at the back Jocomo made our king be born Jocomo made it happen. Now we come to the part that deserves your closest attention – proving the above. Ena! Ena! This is a coded 'call' – the chants were call and response songs – much as The Dixie Cups sang it. 'E' is 'and' (the French and Cajuns would have said 'Et', but Creole shortens everything), and 'na' is 'to have', 'I have', 'So', 'Then' etc. It would equate to something like "Now then!" But it's a coded call – it could start anyway you like to get a chant going. "Iko" (first introduced by The Dixie Cups) is "Akout" in Creole, for the French "Ecoute!" or the English "Listen!". The fact that the French Creole "Akout!" (and sometimes just "koute") was pronounced as "Iko!" was due to how the Black Indians deformed or adapted the Creole word to suit their timing, metre or accent, softening and shortening the initial "A" and typically leaving off the hard "t" at the end of the word. So it ended up being sung as "Akou!" which in a noisy Indian face-off in a New Orleans street at Mardi Gras would phonetically come across as "Iko". "An day" as written down by Crawford was in Creole "an deye". The word "an" is like the French 'en' (in) but accented in the Creole accent. In Creole it has lots of meanings - 'at', 'in' etc (See Webster's), and "deye" means 'after', behind' 'rear'. The procession of an Indian tribe in the streets at Mardi Gras is several hundred yards long and can extend over several city blocks. In front you have the ceremonially dressed Indians (Spyboy, Flagboy, 2d, 3rd, 4th Chiefs, the Queen, the Wildmen and so on) and they're followed by the rest of the voluminous tribe, not as fantastically garbed as the front runners. That's why the Big Chief has to be everywhere – he has to keep his entire Tribe in order and together. So "Akout, akout an deye" – Listen! Listen at the rear" is plausibly what the gang at the front leading the procession would be chanting to their followers behind them as the whole tribe marched down the street. Next we have Crawford's "Jocomo fee no wah na nay". In Creole this is "Jocomo fi nou wa na né" – in English "Jocomo made our King to be born" (literally), but figuratively it would mean "Jocomo (Birdman I think) gave life to our king". Perhaps that particular King was dressed as a Bird. Let's look at the individual words of that sentence - Jocomo fi nou wa na né . Crawford's "fee" is "fi" in Creole, which is the third person past tense of the verb "faire" (to do, to make to cause etc). So "Jacquemot fi" would be "Jacquemot made" (or did, or prepared, or constructed or caused). Modern French has no word such as "fi". For "fi" the French say "fit" (made). In addition, modern French speakers rarely use "fit". Thus, to say "Jacquemot made" - they would say "Jacquemot a fait" – not "Jacquemot fit" (even though it is grammatically correct) - because it is 'old French'. However, 'old French' is very prevalent in the Creole language. It was the only French the slaves heard from their French masters back in the 1600's when New Orleans was built as a sea port/fort and from then on till the Louisiana Purchase in 1803. The Verbix Conjugator gives the use of "fi" for all cases, singular and plural: I made - mo fi Thou made - to fi He or she made - li fi We made - nou fi You made - vou fi They made - yè fi But Sugar Boy Crawford wasn't a Creole speaker. He was a young man listening to Black Indians slogging it out verbally at Mardi Gras. It's highly likely that when he heard the Indians chanting "Jacomo fi..." he would, quite naturally, have phonetically written it as "Chocomo fee..." Crawford's "no" is not no. The lyrics "Jockomo fee '''no'' are really Jackomo fi "nou". The "no" used in the Crawford version is not a negative. It's "nou" the Creole word for "our", "us" or "we" (Webster's). For Crawford the distinction must have been hard to pick up. He wrote down what he heard as best he could, equating the chanted 'nou' to the English word 'no' which must have popped into his mind as he was scribbling down the chant. Perhaps it was even due to the way the 'warring' Indians pronounced the word, cutting short the ending as they did for Akout.. The words "wah na nay" As an entire set of three words, "wah na nay" does not exist in either traditional old French, modern French, or Cajun French. In phonetic Creole French however, it does exist. It's "wa" (in French Roi, in Englsh King) – "nan" (into) – "né" (born). The Creoles changed the French pronunciation of the word King (Roi) to the simpler and flatter "Wa'' leaving off the initial 'r' sound (you'll find 'wa' given as the Creole for 'Roi' in Creole/English Wordlist mentioned above). The word "Nan" is exclusively peculiar to Creole. You can check this in the Creole/English Wordlist which shows several meanings of "nan", which are 'into' 'in', 'to', 'on'. And the word "Né" (born) is the same in both Creole and French, the past participle of the verb "naitre" (to be born) pronounced 'nay' just as Sugar Boy Crawford wrote it. So the whole line: "Jockomo fee no wah na nay" is:"Jacquemot fi nou wa nan né" meaning "Jacquemot made our King into born" (in English: Jacquemot gave life to our King) and "Jockomo fee na nay" is: "Jacquemot fi nan né" meaning "Jacquemot made into born". In this sense it means "Jocomo made it happen". It's the kind of pidgin-French that would make French speakers cringe, but Creole grammar, although similar, doesn't have the same syntax as classic French grammar. THE WHOLE VERSE As sung by Sugar Boy Crawford and the Dixie Cups: Hey now! Hey now! Iko! Iko! an day! Jockomo fee no wah na nay Jockomo fee na nay In the original Creole French would be: Ena! Ena! Akout! Akout an dèyè! Jacomo fi nou wa nan né Jacomo fi nan né And in English would be: Hey now! Hey now! (or Hed Now!' if you're Dr. John) Listen! Listen! at the rear! Jacomo gave life to our King Jacomo made it happen As to the rest of the verses "My Flagboy, Sitting by the fire (fiyo by Dr. John) or My Marraine, or "gonna fix your chicken wire (wiyo by Dr John) etc etc, aren't Creole in origin. The Black Indians originally never sang those English language verses – they just sang the chant above. The English verses were written for the recording studios by the various people who have made hits with this song, each one adding his or her own verses. Crawford's were the original verses in English, and he slipped in the chants 'Jocomo fee nah nay" to finish off each verse and his successors improved and added to the verses. It's never easy to decipher the true origins of a very old chant, especially as it wasn't written down but passed from generation to generation, but whatever the truth – it's still a great song! Do write and let me know if this helped. P.S. I'm also adding this to the other related threads referring to Jocomo. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: michaelr Date: 10 Feb 10 - 07:03 PM Thank you Yanne - very interesting information. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,999 Date: 10 Feb 10 - 07:13 PM Yanne, great work. I ditto what michaelr said. Excellent! |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,jamie burkhalter Date: 15 Feb 10 - 10:59 PM okay, so i skipped some parts b/c this is a long thread but CHECK THIS OUT it EXPLAINS EVERYTHING! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iko_Iko the famous version of the song is the one by Dr. John- in this video Dr. John "conjugates" IKO IKO (also, check out the video response video of just him playing the piano) you've got to hear this guy talk! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx1KhaEc_8I&feature=video_response I'm from near New Orleans and grew up hearing this song as a traditional Mardi Gras theme. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,pagan Date: 04 Mar 10 - 08:55 AM its creole and it roughly translates as "im gonna f*** you up" |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Yanne Date: 05 Mar 10 - 08:30 PM Guest Pagan - you're wrong. It's not 'I'm gonna f--- you up' at all. Neither is it Creole. It's a Choctaw, Houma and Chickasaw greeting meaning 'It's very good'. If you want to know the real words and their English meaning, on Google type 'Iko Iko' in the searchbox, then click on 'Iko Iko Wikipedia'. You'll see the words are not at all as they're sung - there was no Jocomo, it was no one's name. Jocomo is how Sugar Boy Crawford phonetically copied down the Indian chant he heard between two tribes at Mardi Gras in New Orleans in 1953. He copied down 'Jocomo fee no' when they were really chanting 'Chokma Fina' which means 'It's very good'. I know Dr John and others have given their own opinions on what the words mean (Dr John actually said it meant 'eat your pants') but seriously, Dr John isn't exactly a linguist. He can't speak a word of French Louisiana Creole, and the chant is entirely in Creole except for the one Indian phrase Chokma finha'. If you don't feel like reading the rather long Wikipedia article, wait till next week, when you'll see a Youtube video which makes everything very clear. Ian Cully (Yanne) |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Parain Date: 24 May 10 - 12:46 PM This has been incrediably entertaining. First to the OP. Put the two theories together. Jackamo does mean clown. That's how my Creole Mother used it. It can either be used as a noun or a verb, as in you clown or to clown around (all out foolishness). Finane means "It is finished". Jacomo Finane means literally, "Your clowning is over". The song Iko, Iko tells about two Indian tribes meeting. One Flag boy threatens to burn the others flag which would equal wiping his gang out. The other says, "Here comes my Chief, your foolishness is over". That's it, nothing more, finane. One other thing, Nainain and Parain (pronounced Na nan or nanna and Pa ran) are Godmother and Godfather, not Grandmother and Grandfather. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST Date: 17 Jun 10 - 10:26 AM From My understading Chocomo Feeno is the Choctaw phrase for "very well" It is very similar to Jockomo Feen In. The ex-African and Caribbean slaves interacted with the Chocktaw and picked up a lingua franca (patois) that was used a couple of hundred years ago. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 26 Jun 10 - 08:25 PM This is a long thread. I read almost all of the posts, but may have overlooked a line oer two. Maybe this has already been mentioned, but The Neville Brothers recorded the song, with Iko Iko on the album Fiyo on the Bayou. It's a great album. I bought it when it came out many years ago and that's where I first heard Brother John. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,guest, kiran Date: 07 Jul 10 - 03:38 AM Yanne ... came to read this thread after watching Treme on HBO. And just back from France, where I was told San Giacomo = St Joseph, and picked up a little French. So when I got to your AMAZING and lucid post of 10 Feb it made sense of the whole deal and really resonated with me, except at the end I was thinking, if Giacomo = Joseph, then "Jacomo gave life to our King" could be a reference to Joseph and Jesus -- "Joseph gave life to our King (Jesus)". Catholic faith/ritual/genealogy was a big part of the mix in Creolean life, right? And the other day the tribes parade is St. Joseph's Day... But, then, so, I'm confused by your 5 March post in which you say it's not Creole it's a Choctaw, Houma and Chickasaw greeting. Did you read something more that changed your mind? Kiran |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST Date: 07 Jul 10 - 09:15 AM The French colony of Louisiana was not settled by Louis IV, who lived in the Tenth century. I think you meant Louis XIV. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Crater Date: 15 Jul 10 - 01:21 PM Just to throw something into the mix. In French argot the word for brother is 'frangin'(pronounced fronjan). Perhaps finane is a similar word in Italian ans Jacomo finane simply means Brother John. |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Naimawan Date: 25 Jul 10 - 05:18 PM I just found this thread today and read it in its entirety. So much wonderful conversation, and information. I enjoyed the discussion about Jonkunnu (I'm from the Caribbean). The response from Yanne on 10 Feb 10 is the best stuff I've read about the words of the fascinating song, Iko Iko. I always thought "Iko" meant "Brother" in some dialect. I've been listening to the Neville Brother's version of this song for over a decade--loving it always!--and now I get to experience it in a whole new way. It's like a brand new song to me. Hopefully, I'll be at Karneval and Mardi Gras in New Orleans next year. Hope I see some really pretty Indians! Thanks, All! |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST Date: 03 Aug 10 - 07:28 AM your sorta right about the neworleans thing but it was a name of a resturant or bar that is still there |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: GUEST,Luciano - Brasil Date: 07 Dec 10 - 04:59 AM I´m working on some Mardi Gras - N´awlinz songs for a concert (I´m a musician) so I´m trying to contact people who could help me in any way. How could I contact you? Thank you for your atention Best LL |
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Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean? From: michaelr Date: 08 Dec 10 - 01:19 AM Luciano, if you were a Mudcat member (it's free), you could send a PM (Personal Message) to member Poppagator, who knows a lot about Nawlinz music (he lives there). Generally though, it's better to start a new thread with a specific request. You don't have to join to do that. |
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