BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Songwronger
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 07:35 PM

Don't stray from the scipt, people. AttackWatch.org--copy and paste from there. Numbers are not an Obama thing. They weren't a Bush thing.

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7t3r2EZPHFkATIVXNyoA?p=stimulus+and+bailout+23+trillion&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-701&type_par

23 trillion bailout+stimulus, while they hose the public with some "784 billion" stuff. So chill on the numbers. We want Obama in the white house for a second term, or failing that, we want his Republican clone Mitt Romney. Numbers don't favor either of those guys. Stick to the copy and paste at AttackWatch.

Go Truth Team!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 07:51 PM

Well songwronger, you are certainly living up to the second half of your name. Perhaps you would like to explain how a bailout + stimulus of $23 trillion is possible in an economy which, in 2010 stood at $14.5 trillion?

Do please enlighten us on the mechanism which almost doubled the size of that economy in 14 months in the middle of the worst recession since the Wall Street Crash of 1929?

I think your habitual fabrication of figures is busted, or have you turned off your brain cell and accepted what you were told on some troll website?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 07:55 PM

They just make up whatever they want, Don... Kinda factually challenged, so to speak...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Songwronger
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 08:34 PM

Amortization and hidden costs. Spread out over ten years, with cost allowances built in. Do you REALLY think the government's going to just take the promised dollar from you once it gets its hand in your pocket? The U.S. government is now a shell corporation for the big banks. You pay in your taxes, they get sent to Goldman Sachs. And the media lies to you about the amount stolen.

Like the scam going on now with the "Payroll Tax Cut." Big political football between the Democrats and the Republicans. Obama says he won one for the working guy, but those tax cuts mean less money going into Social Security. So it'll help kill Social Security. Which is what the Republicans have historically wanted. The two parties work together on this stuff, always have. That's why you're only allowed two choices in the voting booth.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 08:40 PM

I just installed a Just-the-Facts fact-checker filter on my computer and guess what??

All of songwrongers posts disappeared...

Go figure???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: number 6
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 09:21 PM

"Just-the-Facts fact-checker filter" .... is that the app that Bill O'Rielly flogs each night along with his books on his nitely TV program "The O'Reilly Factor"? Don't tell me you went and bought one Bobert ..... Geeezuz, that computer app filters out any text that does not relate to Bill's right wing leanings .... it's a spin program that disguises the truth. Man you are one damned socialist with a hole in his pocket.

biLL .... public enemy #1 ..... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 09:46 PM

Nah, biLL... I got mine from Radio Shack... $29.95 while they last but they are going fast so I'd suggest stepping back from the pudder, gettin' in the ol' Chevy and gettin' down to the local Radio Shack...

Of course, you might get there and find that songwronger has bought 'um all to dump in the river but, hey, he's going around the country trying to buy 'um all up so he can destroy 'um...

Go figure??? Fact is stranger than fiction, right???

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:05 PM

"That's why you're only allowed two choices in the voting booth."

Nope. If someone says go right or left, indeed one has two choices. If one hears go right or left or make another decision, one has three choices. Or four. Or . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 07:32 AM

So, Greg F.

You deny that you made a racist lie about me, stating that I had called someone a "Stupid N**ger" and based it on someone else saying that the person who had prosed a bill being discussed was "Black, and a Democrat"?

I know that YOU read "Black and a Democrat" as "Stupid n***ger", but the rest of us do not, nor do we try to use such racist attacks to get away from arguements we have lost, nor do we make up lies about people.


YOU are scum.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 09:42 AM

Would a mud elf please delete Beatrdie's somewhat incoherent personal attack of 24 Feb 12 - 07:32 AM ?

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 09:47 AM

Would a mudelf please delete Greg F.?

He made a post here for the sole purpose of attacking me, and is now asking to delete my defense. I have shown he is scum, and my post in reply to him is justified.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 10:27 AM

Scum is something that collects in stagnant water, isn't it? (not trying to imply anything nasty about anyone there...just asking a simple question)

Bobert - Pretty much everything Songwronger is saying is correct, in my opinion. In particular, he said this:

"The U.S. government is now a shell corporation for the big banks. You pay in your taxes, they get sent to Goldman Sachs. And the media lies to you about the amount stolen.

Like the scam going on now with the "Payroll Tax Cut." Big political football between the Democrats and the Republicans. Obama says he won one for the working guy, but those tax cuts mean less money going into Social Security. So it'll help kill Social Security. Which is what the Republicans have historically wanted. The two parties work together on this stuff, always have. That's why you're only allowed two choices in the voting booth."

Dead right. You have no REAL choice at the voting booth, Bobert, because a consortium of giant banks and giant corporations control both political parties AND own the mass media and thereby control your government and shape people's perceptions of reality and run your society. And it's NOT a conspiracy...it's simply a very well-established way of conducting monetary and business affairs...a way in which the richest people IN society are enabled to RUN society...with the objective of making themselves EVEN richer. And it's done with fake money...fiat money...money created in the form of debt...by banks making loans...thereby creating trillions of dollars out of thin air...and past governments have allowed the banks to do it through fractional reserve lending...and it is orchestrated at the top end by the Federal Reserve Bank which is a private corporation that has the USA government and the Obama administration tucked firmly into its shirt pocket, just like it had the Bush administration before Obama. Through organs like the IMF and the World Bank, this corrupt way of doing business subverts governments and extends its fingers of control all over the world...and when it wants to, it also arranges for wars. It has arranged for an endless war by supposedly fighting a war against "Terror". Orwell predicted something very similar to that too.

It's the achievement of Orwell's 1984, Bobert, but it's been done in a rather different way than Orwell envisioned. It's been done not by the power of the police state, but by the power of MONEY. The police state is beginning to show itself now...but it didn't initiate the process, it's an after-effect of the process. Businessmen and bankers allied with the military-industrial complex initiatied the process.

Eisenhower warned what could happen. Kennedy warned what could happen. It has happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 11:08 AM

As we have asked you repeatedly, LH, what is your *realistic* plan for getting there... My plan is to stop the bleeding first... It's easy to see what isn't working and what would work much better... I mean, Helen Keller can get that far... What isn't easy is figuring out how to bust up the ballgame... Again, if you have a *realistic and do-able* plan there are tens of millions of progressives who be indebted to you for laying it out because we've been struggling with this dilemma going back 50 years... If you don't have a *realistic and do-able* plan then yer just blowing smoke...

And, yes, it isn't the songwronger is wrong on everything it's that songtwronger places all the blame at Obama's feet... That makes him as wrong as wrong can be... That's what Lyndon LaRouche used to do... He would lay out the obvious and then come to the wrongest conclusions that anyone could possibly come up with... I remember him talking about the drug problem in the US and everything he sadi made sense until he...

...(((drum roll)))...

...said that Nancy Reagan was the head of the US illegal drug cartel... That is not made up... I saw that speech and I loved it because, well, I loved all of Lyndon's speeches because they all ended up purdy much the way the Nancy Reagan one went... Pure comedy...

That is what songwronger is... Pure comedy... That's why it is a waste of time responding to his posts... I mean, he is another Lyndon LaRouche and you, LH, ain't far behind... lol...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 11:25 AM

Well, geez, Bobertz! Of course Obama isn't responsible for all of it. ;-D He's just temporary. He's a bit player, as far as I'm concerned, albeit he's a rather important one at the moment.

Now, why the heck would you think I have a solution for the most gigantic problems of our time????????? You gotta be kidding. I am not Superman, Bobert.

I am someone who is pointing to a huge storm that is coming, and I'm saying to other people, "Hey, folks, there is a storm coming!" You think I have a solution for that storm?????

Get real.

I might turn your own question back on you and say, "What is YOUR solution, Bobert?"

;-)

See what I mean? It's laughable to think that people such as you and I can come up with a solution for the political-financial-military mess that is present day America in the 21st Century.

There are things that could be done..."your realistic plan for getting there"....but if I were to enunciate any of those, someone like yourself or Ebbie will simply post and say something like:

"...solutions that in literal fact will not happen" Like I said.

In other words, you're not actually ready to listen to anything that WOULD substantially change the sytem, because you don't think it's possible to do things like that.

Which means: you actually agree with me that people like us CAN'T really do anything about the basic situation...but in the meantime, you'd like to make yourself feel better by just doing a little re-arranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic...just so you can feel like good little progressive who are out there "doing something".

Well, that won't work. It won't affect the underlying and most basic issues of our time.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 11:41 AM

No, LH, I do have hope that the US will make the changes but they won't happen over night... Like I said, you first have to stop the bleeding... I'm not into the theory that more leeches is the way to the cure...

When things like "citizens United" happen, that is serious bleeding...

When things like Iraq happen, that is serious bleeding...

When schools in South resegregate (as they are doing), that is serious bleeding...

When millionaire and billionaires spend their stolen money to bust unions and buy elections, that is serious bleeding...

The right wing is intent on destroying the American safety net... Their hero is Ayn Rand... They worship her and have used every Republican president since Reagan to try to "starve the beast" thru all kinds of trickery and propaganda... That is serious bleeding...

Yeah, "we'd all love to change the world"... Great... But before qwe do that we just have to fight in trenches to stop the bleeding...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 03:25 PM

You think the Dems will stop the bleeding Bob?

If I remember correctly they could not wait to line themselves up with Mr Bush in his "great adventure"

In Hillary the Hawk you dont have Florence Nightingale.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 04:27 PM

Yes, Ake, I do...

They have a narrow channel here to get back enough power to have any control...

In the last 30 years they have had a total 2 years where the stars aligned and they used that to pass the Affordable Care Act...

As for lining up with Bush, Google up "Iraq War Resolution" and see the number of Democrats who voted "No"... And this in the face of Bush wrapping himself yet again in the post 9/11 flag and everything was about the Republican Patriotism propaganda... It took balls for the number of Dems who weren't exactly, like you say, "lining up"...

One thing is 100% obvious and that is the republicans have all but sent out working class an engraved letter telling them that the Republicans fully intend to have them all in poverty... 125% of Americans now live at 125% of poverty OR LESS... That has doubled since 1982... It was just reported that 64% of Americans could come up with $1000 if they HAD to... This is a serious attack that the Republicans have going against the working class and the Republicans make no bones about what they are up to...

Are the Democrats like this party of saviors??? No, but they are fighting the Republicans tooth and nail on trying to hold on to the New Deal safety net programs...

There ain't no "Choice C" at present.. You pick...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Feb 12 - 12:12 PM

I don't have the faith in the Democratic Party that you do, Bobert. That's the crucial difference between us right there. I think the Democrats are basically pursuing the same corporate course the Republicans are...but through a different style of rhetoric.

You're quite right that the Democrats ARE fighting the Republicans tooth and nail...as you said...and the Republicans are fighting the Democrats tooth and nail...

Yeah.

Just like 2 hockey or football teams, they are fighting each other tooth and nail...but for what?

For the VICTORY, that's what! They are fighting for power. Once in power, however, they are both willing servants of corporate policy. And what is corporate policy? It is to...

1. privatize public institutions
2. move jobs to the cheapest parts of the globe ("free trade")
3. crush small business and form corporate monopolies in its place
4. secure control of strategic resources in the world (oil, natural gas, uranium, water, arable land, etc)
5. enrich the corporate elite at everyone else's expense
6. destroy the middle class
7. reduce workers' wages and benefits and increase salaries of CEOs
8. increase domestic surveillance and reduce civil rights
9. ramp up military production and fight wars for profit
10. secure huge PROFITS for the elite at any cost to the rest of us!

Both parties live to beat each other on the playing field that is the great political game. But once in office, they serve the corporate Oligarchy, not you and me. And that's the way it is. In my opinion, it won't end until they create a world disaster so great that it brings them crashing down...or until there's a worldwide popular revolution that brings them down.

Either way, it's not going to be a nice thing to live through for anyone who gets caught in the "fallout" and collateral damage.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Feb 12 - 07:12 PM

The Affordable Care Act isn't perfect, LH, but it pissed off the corporate interests that the health insurance companies funneled hundreds of millions of $$$ to Dick Armey's freedom Works to defeat it...

Follow the money and you'll easily see which party is the party of the corporations...

Watch very carefully the $$$ in the 2012 elections... I mean, Romney has more pledged SuperPAC money than Obama has raised in total... Where's this money coming from???

Follow the money and you'll see that the corporations ain't all that enamored with the Democratic Party...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Feb 12 - 07:17 PM

Well, I wish I could believe that, Bobert. I really do. Back in John Kennedy's day I really believed in the Democrats. Then Lyndon Johnson came along, possibly with John Kennedy's blood on his hands, and nothing's been the same since.

I also had pretty high hopes for Obama, as you know, though I was disgusted with his attitude toward continuing and enlarging the Afghanistan war. My hopes regarding Obama were dashed within a pretty short time, I'm sorry to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Feb 12 - 11:09 PM

Like I said, Lh, if you follow the money trail you'll see that this current crop of Democrats are the enemy of corporate America... The Chamber of Commerce alone is going to spend $10M in ad buys against Obama...

Follow the money, LH, and you'll see that what I have been preaching for the last couple of years is 100% right on TRUTH...

This is an all out assault but the monied class to drive a stake thru the heart of the New Deal...

Square business... This is the real deal...

Look at what Bush and Reagan did... They spent like drunken sailors... That is the plan... Starve the beast... Kill the New Deal...

The Dems are all we have left... Last line of defense... No time for "both sides"... No time for "classless and free" lectures... We are down to the nubs... We don't have any good options here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 06:28 AM

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind.

And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so.

How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."

Julius Caesar

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: number 6
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 07:50 AM

""Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on
a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of
it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people
don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in
Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the
country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to
drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no
voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger. It works the same in any country."
........   Hermann Goering


biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 09:11 AM

But the drum pounding will get louder and louder as the election nears... And guess who will be doing the pounding??? Not Obama but the Republicans... They are already pounding away and rattling sabres... This is how dumb wars start... Countries just bumble their way into these things and then wonder how it happened... And then there's buyer's remorse as we have with both Iraq and Afghanistan...

I just read in the paper this morning that the majority of Americans are in favor of a military intervention in Iran... Where are the voices of reason???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 09:19 AM

Good quotes, guys. One of the main reasons I am very disappointed in Obama is his war policies...and his assault on civil rights.

Bobert, you said: "This is an all out assault by the monied class to drive a stake thru the heart of the New Deal..."

Darned right it is! And both parties are doing it as far as I'm concerned, but the Republicans are PROUD of doing it! Whereas the Democrats (the ones in office) pretend they're not doing it...it wouldn't please the people who vote for them!

Ever since Reagan there has been a concerted effort to destroy the legacy of the New Deal, to privatize public institutions, to privatize health insurance, to gut the public sphere and replace it with cronyism, corporate fiefdoms, and robber barons.

The Republicans do it openly and proudly. The Democrats do it more quietly, while pretending that they would never do that.

Regarding who is funding Obama: My impression is that in the 2008 presidential campaign Obama received a far bigger share of corporate funding than any other candidate did, and that's one of the reasons he won...the corporates helped crown him. I'd like to see some statistics on where his funding came from in 2008. Anyone got them?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 09:37 AM

Bobert...a majority of Americans are in favor of a military intervention in Iran because the corporate controlled mass media has been preparing them for it with several years of ceaseless alarmist propaganda about Iran!

That is how public consent is manufactured in America...by the media.

The truth is that Iran is NO danger to the USA and never has been, and that the only real reason Iran could possibly want nuclear weapons is to protect itself against being attacked by nuclear-armed Israel and the USA.

The Iranians would have to be crazy NOT to want some nuclear weapons, considering that they have been threatened in the most obvious and continual way for several years now by the rhetoric and military posturing of the USA and Israel. They are sitting there with the Sword of Damocles hanging over their heads every day of their lives.

The US mass media doesn't tell that to Americans! All they tell them is "Iran is a terrible danger". The truth is: Iran is IN terrible danger! And they know it.

How can you expect your public to have a realistic view of an international situation when they are being lied to about it every day of their lives?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 10:55 AM

On your first post, LH, we are 180 degrees apart...

On your second one, however. we are in complete agreement...

BTW, Google up "Congressional Iraq War Resolution" and check out the number of Dems who voted against it... Sure, a lot voted for it but you and I were here back then and we both, or should both, recall the post 9/11 demonization of anyone who stood up the Bush/Cheney ward machine...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 11:42 AM

Actually, Obama and the Democrats had only seven months when they clearly controlled the legislative process - from his inauguration until Kennedy's death the following August. After that, they no longer had the 60 votes needed to move anything along in the Senate against unanimous Republican opposition.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 12:28 PM

LH, I cannot attest to the veracity of ANY data here, FYI.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: John P
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 01:51 PM

I am continually amazed by LH and Akenaton and all pretending that we don't all know we live in a corporate-controlled state. Has anyone indicated in any way that we DON'T know that?

The problem, for me, is that there is shit-all I can do about it. I have a job, play in a band, own a home, have a partner and pets. There isn't time to go out and change the world, especially since I know in advance that I would spend the rest of life trying and not succeeding. I choose to not waste my life in that way. I speak when I have the opportunity, and vote against the worst offenders. Standing in the street protesting isn't going to do any good. Changing the laws is only possible, for me, slowly and at the ballot box.

And I'm still left with the question of who to vote for. I can promise you that I'm not going to vote for Obama - his record doesn't stand up to his promises in some ways that are very important to me. He is, however, going to get my vote as I vote against whatever Republican gets the nomination. While Obama hasn't kept some promises, he is very, very, very much better than the Republicans. Any of their promises, if kept, are hugely worse than all of Obama's broken promises put together.

Oddly, I can think of all this while also being aware that I am socialist living in a country governed by capitalistic, theocratic economic totalitarians where my rights to an equitable income and normal privacy are tenuous to non-existent.

So Little Hawk and Akenaton, what are your short-term plans for dealing with the situation? What are your long-term plans? Where is the lever that will move the world? What actions are you taking? Who should we vote for this year? Or should we just refuse to participate in a crooked, flawed system? Do you have anything to offer other than going on an internet forum and hurling mockery at people who are actually trying to fix some of the little things?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: number 6
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 02:23 PM

If I lived in the U.S. I wouldn't vote for either the Democrats or Republicans. I'd cast a spoilt (protest) vote. If there was a third party represented by someone as Dennis Kucinich, I'd vote for them, and knowing full well that there would be no way in hell that party would have a chance. Casting a protest vote or voting for a representative that represents my true and honest belief. The more people that would vote in this manner displays a message in itself of hope and democratic encouragment for the future. I firmly believe casting a vote for the party that you dislike the least is not only futile but is very dangerous.

My son says Obama is one great PR man for the corporate oligarchy. He presents a great design in the package, and in doing so distracts people away from the fine print. I tend to believe this.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 02:35 PM

I am in complete and total agreement with everything John P. said just above.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: John P
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 03:42 PM

I firmly believe casting a vote for the party that you dislike the least is not only futile but is very dangerous.

If Dennis Kucinich were heading up a third party, I might vote for him. Or might not, I'd have to decide if I wanted to waste my vote against the theocrats. He's not forming a party, nor is anyone else. Our only chances for a third party this year are a Christian theocrat party or a Tea Party idiot party. So, in the absence of a liberal, socialist, green, truthful, or financially responsible third party, who should I vote for this year?

In what way is it futile and dangerous to vote against the greater evil? In what way is it NOT futile dangerous to fail to vote against the greater evil?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 04:57 PM

To put it in extreme terms, I'd much rather vote for the candidate who thinks I ought to be tried first rather than the other candidate who thinks I should be taken out and shot outright.

Of course, I could always register my protest by voting for the Lone Ranger, even though I know he'll never make it in time.

If I vote for the candidate who thinks I should have a trial, at leaes I have a chance, however slim it might be.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 05:15 PM

If Dennis Kucinich were a 3rd part candidate I'd still vote for Obama because a vote for Kucinich, as much as I love the guy, would be a wasted vote and there for a Republican vote...

I learned that lesson in 2000 even though I brokered my vote accross state libe and also worked for Nader...

The only 3rd party I want to see is one that split the Republicans and keep them the heck out of the White House so maybe we can restore some sanity to the Supreme Court...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 05:21 PM

Amen!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 05:40 PM

On reading the above(with the exception of 6 and Brucie), I reach the conclusion that there is indeed no hope for the US of A.

How can adults continue to be fooled when the evidence is so plain to see? Is it because there will always be someone just a little bit worse of than you?
The Titanic is going down....but the band plays on.

and the funny thing is that you all proclaim that you want "CHANGE", in fact, that was Mr Obama's great rallying call, but you are really "ANTI-CHANGE".....you are mant times more conservative than the Conservatives.

Phil Ochs was right.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 05:43 PM

Ever since Reagan there has been a concerted effort to destroy the legacy of the New Deal...

Not quite true- ever since FDR was elected, there was a concerted effort to undo the New Deal - with some notable successes - pursued by the Republicans, corporations & rich folks & other loonies who foamed at the mouth every time they heard his name.

Thing was, most common folks were able to see thru the Anti-FDR bullshit back then. I gues the population was just that much stupider or more disinterested by the time The Great Actor played president.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 06:30 PM

Phil Ochs song was satire, ya'll... It's not the Bible or manifesto... Quit mis-using it...

And, Ake, you are wrong... If we didn't think there was any chance to correct the flaws we have then we'd just stay home, get drunk and not vote...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 06:59 PM

(This has a lot of links in it...but not in this 'copy/paste').

Public Citizen's 'Money and Democracy Update'
This newsletter reveals just how openly corrupt our faux democracy has become. It is now possible to become President of the most powerful nation in the world simply by having a single, individual, "sugar daddy. If your "sugar daddy" has more "sugar" than everyone else, there is then a very good chance that the office of President of the United States of America can be openly purchased on your behalf. In the past this would have required many groups and corporations coming together to fund the campaign, and of course the President elect would be expected to repay that effort (corruption), but now just one super rich hedge fund manager could, theoretically, be calling the shots in the White House. Or think about this, since there is no requirement to reveal the source of Super Pac money, how about a super rich Saudi islamist standing in the wings. Super Pacs are open to foreign money.

an e-newsletter about the movement to curb corporate influence in politics and restore our democracy
Issue #98 • February 24, 2012

"Money and Democracy Update" is Public Citizen's weekly e-newsletter about the intersection of money and politics. It is part of our ongoing campaign to track the results of — and ultimately overturn — the U.S. Supreme Court's reckless decision in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, which allows for-profit corporations to spend unlimited amounts of money to support or attack political candidates. We'll update you regularly with select news stories and blog posts, legislative developments and ways to get involved.

Stunning Statistics of the Week:

    $100 million: The amount billionaire casino owner Sheldon Adelson said he may give to support Newt Gingrich's presidential bid, or another candidate
    $11 million: The amount he and his wife already have given to support Gingrich
    $25 billion: Adelson's net worth
    0.044 percent: The percentage of Adelson's fortune that $11 million represents

SEC commissioner calls for disclosure of corporate political spending
The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) is now receptive to Public Citizen's call to require publicly traded companies to disclose their political spending. At a Friday conference, "SEC Speaks," Securities and Exchange Commissioner Luis Aguilar loudly championed the key reform of political spending disclosure, saying that "investors are not receiving adequate disclosure, and as the investor's advocate, the commission should act swiftly to rectify the situation."

Via Super PACs, a handful of people are exerting influence over 2012 presidential races
Using Super PACs, just a handful of mega-wealthy powerbrokers are exerting outsized influence over the 2012 presidential races, numerous analyses have found. USA Today concluded that one of every four dollars spent since Jan. 1, 2011, came from five people. The Associated Press discovered that $33 million of the $60 million collected by candidate-connected Super PACs came from just two dozen people. Every single candidate has a donor who has given at least $1 million to a Super PAC dedicated to helping that candidate.

This is unusual even for a Super PAC …
Suppose you had a Super PAC that had just one backer and was devoted to promoting one presidential candidate. Now suppose that superrich donor made a small fortune touting a special business strategy. Suppose the candidate touted that strategy repeatedly while on the campaign trail. What would that be called? "Kind of amazing," "mutually beneficial" and "quid pro quo" are some phrases used in this unusual arrangement. The candidate? Newt Gingrich. The man behind the strategy? Mike George. Although he sold his strategy and doesn't profit from it anymore, the arrangement shows yet another way for wealthy donors to use elections as PR tools.

Don't let the door hit you
Nearly 400 former U.S. House of Representatives staffers have gone on to be lobbyists, a Sunlight Foundation analysis has found. More than two in five went to a lobbying firm, while one in five went to work for a for-profit corporation and another one in five went to work for a business or trade association.

U.S. Supreme Court puts Montana law on ice
In the ongoing challenge to the Montana Supreme Court's decision upholding the state's regulation of corporate political activity, the U.S. Supreme Court has stepped in to halt enforcement of the law pending further review. The state law has been challenged as unlawful by those who say it conflicts with the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission. Montana justices recently said they would allow the state's ban to continue; opponents went to the U.S. Supreme Court, which late last week stayed the law while it decided whether to hear the case. U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg signaled that she thinks her colleagues should reconsider Citizens United altogether.

Three companies agree to disclose political spending
The New York State Comptroller has reached an agreement with three California companies – Pacific Gas and Electric (PG&E), Safeway and Sempra Energy. The companies will disclose political expenditures made with corporate money. In addition, PG&E has pledged to disclose information about the company's policies and procedures regarding political lobbying.

Dollars and Cents (even more news bites):

... U.S. Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) and 10 colleagues are urging the Federal Election Commission to require more disclosure of political spending ...

... Speaking of letters, Franken was among eight senators who sent a letter to another agency, the Federal Communications Commission, urging it to require broadcasters to post online the names of those paying for political ads ...

... About 100 people rallied in front of the U.S. Supreme Court this week, demanding that it overturn Citizens United ...

... The founders of Ben & Jerry's ice cream have launched a "Get the Dough Out" campaign against Citizens United ...

... House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi appeared on comedian Stephen Colbert's show this week, making the case for disclosure of the identities of those paying for political ads and other expenditures. Tell Congress to pass the DISCLOSE Act ...

... Comedian Bill Maher has given $1 million to Priorities USA Action, the Super PAC supporting President Barack Obama ...

Visit DemocracyIsForPeople.org to learn more!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 07:25 PM

Yup, GfinS...

Super PACs are insane... I mean, nothing prevents China, or the Taliban, from buying up some gov'mint...

Sam Alito should be ashamed for reacting so badly during last year's State of the Unuion address when Obama told the court that they blown it...

Now it's going to take either a saner court to overturn it or a constitutional amendment to fix this extremist court's decision... BTW, all of the justice who thought this was a good idea were appointed by Republicans: Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Kennedy...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: John P
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 08:13 PM

The Titanic is going down....but the band plays on.

and the funny thing is that you all proclaim that you want "CHANGE", in fact, that was Mr Obama's great rallying call, but you are really "ANTI-CHANGE".....you are mant times more conservative than the Conservatives.

Akenaton, can you explain any of this is light of everything that everyone has said on this thread? If you are going to say things like this, you need supply specific examples.

In what way am I being fooled?

What does the fact that there are people worse off than me have to do with anything, and what do you know about how I feel about it?

In what way am I opposed to change?

In some ways, I will accept that I am more conservative than the current "Conservatives", because the current batch are really economic and social radicals who want to destroy all the gains we've made in the last century. But I don't think that's what you meant, so you should prove that one as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 08:24 PM

""So Little Hawk and Akenaton, what are your short-term plans for dealing with the situation? What are your long-term plans?""

They don't actually have any plans.

Little Hawk just likes sitting on the sidelines pretending to be all wise and all knowing, but is, like many who enjoy stirring the pot, all show and no substance.

Ake just wants to tear the whole system apart and go live in a mud hut, snarling at strangers.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 08:31 PM

John P - I am truly puzzled by your post of 26 Feb 12 - 01:51 PM . You seem to assume in it that you and I disagree on a whole lot of fundamental stuff that in fact we agree on.

I don't get that.

I feel like you're arguing with someone else whom you have mistaken for me...or you think that I am someone very different from whom I actually am. It just doesn't connect.

You ask rhetorical questions that have no bearing on my actual position...although you clearly think that they do. And that sure does puzzle me. Perhaps you are mistaking my tone of voice or something?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 08:48 PM

To all the glib souls here who imagine something as ridiculous as that I should have a PLAN to deal with the political mess in the USA...LOL!...I repost this post I made to Bobert on the same subject....a post which you either never read or have convenienly forgotten.

And I shall post it again and yet again whenever one of you silly sods starts asking me what my PLAN (or solution) is.

Here it is (again):

Now, why the heck would you think I have a solution for the most gigantic problems of our time????????? You gotta be kidding. I am not Superman, Bobert.

I am someone who is pointing to a huge storm that is coming, and I'm saying to other people, "Hey, folks, there is a storm coming!" You think I have a solution for that storm?????

Get real.

I might turn your own question back on you and say, "What is YOUR solution, Bobert?"

;-)

See what I mean? It's laughable to think that people such as you and I can come up with a solution for the political-financial-military mess that is present day America in the 21st Century.

There are things that could be done..."your realistic plan for getting there"....but if I were to enunciate any of those, someone like yourself or Ebbie will simply post and say something like:

"...solutions that in literal fact will not happen" Like I said.

In other words, you're not actually ready to listen to anything that WOULD substantially change the sytem, because you don't think it's possible to do things like that.

Which means: you actually agree with me that people like us CAN'T really do anything about the basic situation...but in the meantime, you'd like to make yourself feel better by just doing a little re-arranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic...just so you can feel like good little progressives who are out there "doing something".

Well, that won't work. It won't affect the underlying and most basic issues of our time.

You are akin to a chicken flapping its wings in the face of an approaching hurricane, while peremptorily asking me (another chicken)..."What is your plan for stopping this hurricane?"

Like I said...Get real. You and I cannot stop this hurricane. We can only hope to ride it out, and make something good out of our own lives during the short time we have here. We are like the plebes in the dying Roman Empire. They couldn't stop what was happening any more than we can...but they could find love in their lives, find good relationships, and do something beautiful in their own lives, and that is what I am spending most of my time doing.

I just talk here because it's fun...it allows me to express who I am...and it can be interesting.

It is NOT going to change the fate of the American Empire. And I know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 09:04 PM

The problem, LH, is that you seem to lecturing those of US who are doing our best to wiggle this messed up country thru a very narrow channel... We don't need to be told over and over how narrow the channel is... We know it with every breath we breathe and with every bone on our bodies...

We don't need "classless and free" regurgitation of what our problems are... We ain't friggin' morons that need to be reminded...

We don't have a lot of choices here... We have a lot of bleeding and a major assault on our basic safety nets... Not major entitlements but basic developed nation safety nets...

Our country has the highest poverty rate on any western developed country in the world... This is by design...

We see what's the right is in position to do to US... Turn US into a 3rd world country... That ain't some over dramatized weepy thing... It is our reality...

We are trying to fend off the last assault... We don't have the luxuries that Canada has...

We are on the brink of losing a 70 year battle against the right wing corporatists...

Please do no patronize the few of us here who see that that narrow channel is closing fast and we got a lot bleeding to stop...

"Both side are this or that" are the words of those who want to close the channel...

Please don't patronize us... We have enough problems fighting these people without ya'll's classless and free advice...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 09:21 PM

Bobert, I do what everyone else in this world does. I talk about things I find interesting and things that I think are important and meaningful.

I am interested in the current political situation. I think it's important and meaningful.

That's why I talk about it. For that reason alone. Not to convert you or "lecture" you or change the world. But simply to express my own thoughts. Period.

I cannot help it if my honest opinions about politics and the thoughts that I have about politics ruffle your feathers in some way. That's life.

We all get the impression that other people are lecturing us from time to time. That's because thoughts that differ from our own jangle us a bit.

But that's life! (shrug) It happens, and it will keep happening. I see no way of avoiding it unless we simply stop talking to one another (and I am not suggesting that we should stop talking to one another).

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 09:29 PM

I should add that I fully realize you are trying to fend off the last assault of the Right which is attempting to turn your country into a 3rd World society. And I sympathize (and empathize) with the spot you're in!

And how.

And I have no idea what to advise you to do about it, because like I said...I am not Superman.

I can only wish you the best of luck. If I were an American, I'd be helping Dennis Kucinich get re-elected. That's what I'd do about it.

As a Canadian, I'm not legally allowed to contribute to his campaign funding.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 09:30 PM

We've heard your song, LH...

It's become Bobby Goldsboro's "Honey" to progressives south of the border...

Time to work on some new material...

Serious business... Lots of us have tried to tell you that... You are way smarter than to to get stuck in a rut but your Cadillac has a rear wheel in the ditch...

Not personal... I love ya', man... Just expect more out of you... Things change... time marches on... You need some new material...

Sorry,

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Truth Team (join me!)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 09:44 PM

Hey, man...but I feel exactly the same way about the stuff you guys keep saying. ("Aww...geez! Not that same old tired line again!") ;-D

So whatcha gonna do? Call Ghostbusters? We are just gonna hafta put up with the fact that we all keep saying the same damn things over and over again. I hear it's a characteristic of both humans and dogs. They repeat themselves.

I bet even Jesus and Buddha repeated themselves quite a bit.