BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 11:33 AM

" you mean they want it to continue to exist, "
You have defended all their atrocities, all their massacres, their policy of expansionism, their attempts to set up an Apartheid State, the slaughter of civilians and the bombing of hospitals and schools, chemical and anti-personnel wepons ...... every War crime and human human rights abuse that has ever been pointed out to you
And now you are about to claim that none of this ever happened and it is all propaganda.
If that is what it takes to continue to exoist, then perhaps it has forfeited that right?
That is what Steve means
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 11:41 AM

You have defended all their atrocities, all their massacres, their policy of expansionism, their attempts to set up an Apartheid State, the slaughter of civilians and the bombing of hospitals and schools, chemical and anti-personnel wepons ...... every War crime and human human rights abuse that has ever been pointed out to you

No I have not.
I have put Israel's side of the story and pointed out that no liberal democracy accuses israel of atrocities or massacres or any of that shit, only the very unpleasant regimes that are enemies of Israel.

Now please desist in your obsessive compulsion to make this yet another thread about Israel!
This is not about Israel.
It is about the current problems of Labour.
Any views on that Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 11:55 AM

"It is about the current problems of Labour."

Keith - After all this long thread, the only sensible conclusion I can objectively arrive at
is that Labour is rife with antisemitic extremists and not fit for Government ever again,
especially with Corbyn as leader...

no.. seriously Keith...


.. oh alright.. in yer dreams Keith..... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 12:45 PM

You deny there is a problem.
The NEC and much of the membership disagree with you.
I thought it would make an interesting discussion given that there are several of the Labour hard left here.

I thought it might last a few days, but not weeks.
It has not been driven by me.
Bobad and I have mostly just responded to what has been said by you, Steve and Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 01:01 PM

"You deny there is a problem."

Oh no I don't.... oops... not panto season yet is it...???

Never have, as well you know if you actually read what I write.

If there is a problem of anti semitism in the Labour Party
I firmly conclude, that it is of nowhere near the magnitude and importance
Labour's enemies outside and within the party are so desperately attempting to fabricate...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 01:32 PM

I didn't say pro-Israel, oh expert of the partial quote. I said ardently pro-Israel. Israel sycophants, blind to that state's transgressions. The only sense in which I am pro-Israel is that I want the people who live there, all of them, to have peace, security and prosperity, precisely the opposite of the direction in which their regime is taking them. The same as what I want for everyone else. Oh, and I oppose anyone who says they are going to wipe Israel from the map or who targets Jews because they are Jews. And that includes Labour politicians. Oddly, I have seen hardly any who actually do that. Well, none so far that I'm convinced of.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 03:03 PM

"The NEC and much of the membership disagree with you."
The NEC has reported no institutional racism within the Labour
Party and th Oxford enquiry came out with a verdict of not guilty.
As the official inquiry isn't due out yet.
Do you know something none of the rest of us do about a "much of the membership" or are you just making that up? (rhetorical question)

"You deny there is a problem."
Yes, undoubtedly - the whole situation has been blown up and paid for
by the Israli propaganda machine which is spending millions to discredit critics
Witch Hunt

Of course there are Antisemites within the Labour Party as there are in every party
of course it depends how you define the term

What it amounts to is that a tiny handful of people within the party have not chosen their words properly when criticising Israel
As Israel has now monopolised the term 'Antisemitism and has described Jewish critics as Self-loathing Jews the term has become meaningless anyway.
Even top-ranking and respected members of the Israeli establishement are Israel's behavior to that of Pre-War Germany

The Israeli Justice minister has gone so far as to say tht it is Antisemitic to EVER CRITICISE ISRAEL

******* ridiculous!!
The situation has intensified genuine Antisemitism in the world today and put the lives and well being of all Jews at risk
Israel is now an Antisemitic State in the very real sense.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 06:16 PM

This whole thing is so bloody ridiculous, Jim. Naz Shah is "antisemitic" even though she never used the word "Jews." Ken Livingstone is "antisemitic" because he truthfully mentioned the liaison between Hitler and senior Zionists. Jackie Walker is "antisemitic" because she dared to mention, honestly, the role of Jews in the sugar and slave trade. She's "antisemitic" even though both she and her partner are of Jewish descent. A couple of years ago I spent a few days in Liverpool, which was at the heart of the slave trade. Liverpool acknowledges its role and is man enough to take the flak. But mention that Jews were involved, which they were, big time, and you're shot down. Not all Jews. Not only Jews. But you are not allowed to mention it. The wider definition of antisemitism, the one that proscribes any criticism of Israel, trumps fair, honest and open debate every time.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 07:02 AM

Steve, which board members do you consider "ardently pro- Israel" to the extent that their views on anti-semitism are not relevant and why.

Who are "enemies of Labour within Labour?"

Pfr, you have denied that the problem is significant.
Mountains and molehills.

Jim, I substantiated that stuff with quotes.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 07:41 AM

Former Scottish Labour leader Jim Murphy accuses Momentum of having, "a problem with antisemitism ."


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/only-jewish-candidate-for-labours-ruling-nec-blocked-after-intervention-by-jim-mur
http://labourlist.org/2016/06/momentum-candidate-set-to-pursue-second-nomination-for-nec-after-local-setback/

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 07:41 AM

Keith - I accuse you of needing the 'problem' to be far more that it actually is...

For whatever vindictive reason you surly have a vested interest in blowing this alleged anti semitism up out of all proportions.

If you yourself are not jewish, then you have a peculiarly morbid fascination with the issue,
that doesn't strike me as based in any genuine empathy or altruism....???? 😣

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 07:44 AM

you surly have a vested interest in blowing this alleged anti semitism up out of all proportions.

I have not done that.
I just put it up as an issue, which it clearly is.
It is yours and Steve's outrage and denials that have kept this thread going all these weeks.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 07:45 AM

"Jim, I substantiated that stuff with quotes."
Sure you did Keith - don't you always select the best on offer?
Once more you hide behind the result of your internet trawls and refuse to respond to the implications of where they came from and why they are there in the first place.
Something else you will ignore
Traditionally the left parties and activists have championed the rights of other races, have been on the forefront of the fight agaists racism and Antisemitism... and most other progressive movements.
It is you extremists who have traditionally taken the other side - racism, Antisemitism, cultural hatred - all the domain of the right - it was the right who drove six million Jews into the gas chambers.
If the Labour party have no become Antisemitic in their outlook, it is because they have embraced Tory values - SFA to do with the ideals of Labour.
This is a double whammy for people like you - you get to defend your favourite terrorist state while at the same tim, get a chance to smear the only hope Britain has of having a half decent and humane political party'
Feel free to ignore this - it really wasn't for your benefit.

Tried to post this response to Steve earlier, but apparently Max is still having his problems, Gawd bless 'im.

I think it's a bit irrelevant to plouter around whether it was Jews, Gentiles, Muslims or whoever who were involved in Slavery or helped Hitler's rise to power - not necessarily or wholly inaccurate, but, given the present circumstances, somewhat inflammatory - one of Livingstone's boo-boos, but understandable given that Israel is forefront in blaming the Jewish people for the human rights abuses and war crimes it has committed and continues to commit.
There were Jews who opposed slavery, who fought for freedom for all; in my father's time and in mine, the British and American left was made up of large sections of Jews - revolutionaries, liberals, 'do-gooders' people who wanted to make the world a better place to live in - try the early novels of Howard Fast or the plays of Arthur Miller some time, still inspirational enough to be life-changing (and certainly not to people like Keith's taste).
We far-too-often equate all groups and communities with those who have made it to the top of the greasy pole, while forgetting that all communities have their dedicated heroes and fighters for human rights.
My dad once said that, if it wasn't for lapsed Catholics and Jews we wouldn't have a left movement in Britain and it would be a far lousier world without them - many of his mate who fought with him in Spain were refugees from Fascist Germany.
I don't believe for one minute that The Labour Party is full of Anti-semites - that is a myth generated by the propaganda machine which has been set up to defend the Israeli ultra-right policies - doesn't the claim that "all criticism of Israeli policy is Antisemitic" have chilling echoes of the thirties' "Jewish world plot"?
All Keith's and Bobad's claims are traceable back to Israel's fact-manufacturing factory - it really was money well-spent on this pair
STUDENTS
AMERICA
BBC
Jim Carroll

P.S
It will be interesting if these fall under the new restrictions of the new definition of "Antisemitism
Mrs N's Irvana Trump like shennanigans

Mr N's hand in the till

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 07:59 AM

"Former Scottish Labour leader Jim Murphy accuses Momentum of having, "a problem with antisemitism "
Jim Murphy is a right winger who was cited in parliament for his heavy-handed right-wing tactics.
He was chairman of the Pro-Israeli 'Labour Friends of Israel' and is a member of the Henry Jackson Society's Political Council
Henry Jackson Soc.
It suits him to denigrate the progressive side of Lablour - what else if he going to say?
See what I mean - wheels within wheels in all these attacks
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 08:13 AM

Excellent posts from both Jim and pfr above - cheers, lads. Let's keep the little island of sanity in this thread. Keith, you are entitled to ask me questions when you answer questions yourself. You've made a complete fool of yourself in this thread both by lying about non-existent EU guidelines and by refusing to address questions put to you. I have better things to spend my time on.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 08:20 AM

"It is yours and Steve's outrage and denials that have kept this thread going all these weeks.

Keith - at risk of being lured into your playground tactics of "Please teacher, they started it..."

It's your thread, you started it, I respond to your daily thread perpetuating attacks upon the Labour Party..

.. and as before I sincerely thank you for this opportunity to learn from Jim and Steve's, and other occasional poster's, superior knowledge and experience,
and their ability to articulate my line of ideas much better than I am able...

This thread is very good refresher education - You're doing me a big favour Keith.....

cheers mates... 😎

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 01:28 PM

Jim,
I don't believe for one minute that The Labour Party is full of Anti-semites - that is a myth generated by the propaganda machine which has been set up to defend the Israeli ultra-right policies -

Lots of Labour members and its NEC say there is a problem, at least with Momentum and the Left if not mainstream Labour.

Jim Murphy is a right winger who was cited in parliament for his heavy-handed right-wing tactics.

He has been part of the Labour Party his whole adult life, been a long standing Labour MP and the leader of Scottish Labour.

Steve,
lying about non-existent EU guidelines

Do you mean the working definitions of antisemitism that are still published by the European Parliament Working Group On Antisemitism, an EU body?

and by refusing to address questions put to you.

Not refused, I must have missed them.
Sorry.
Please repost them.

Pfr,
I just put this up as an issue, which Labour itself clearly thinks itis.
It is yours and Steve's outrage and denials that have kept this thread going all these weeks.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 01:53 PM

"Lots of Labour members and its NEC say there is a problem,"
Who and on what basis - you seem to have in in on how"lots people and the N.E.C. is thinking" or is that just what, you from your political stance, would have us believe.
How do youknow what "lots of people" are thinking - the N.EC.C. appears to have exonerated the Party of having an Antisemitism problem.
The BBC has said there's a problem - but the B.B.. has admitted being in Israel's pocket.
All the Lebour links, (and the rest) you have provided are traceable back to the Israeli propaganda collosus.
Where is your eveidense for any of this nonsense?
Once again, you refuse even to acknowledge the terrifying direction Israel is now taking, its betrayal of the Jewish People, its War criminality, the fact that an extremist right-wing Middle Easter country with nuclear capability is disparaging Jewish critics, destabalising the Middle East and threatening the lives and well-being of yours, mine and the rest of humanities well-being.
You are not the slightest bit interested in Antisemitism or the Jewish Peole, you vote has always gone to teh extremist Israeli candidate and your dishonesty in doing so has been the main feature of your support for that regime.
Where's your evidence that there is a problem withi the Labour party apart from your Israeli propaganda

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 02:05 PM

but the B.B.. has admitted being in Israel's pocket.
All the Lebour links, (and the rest) you have provided are traceable back to the Israeli propaganda collosus.

So all our media is now in Zionist hands and nothing can be believed.
You are right Jim.
That does invalidate everything I have said here.

Is there anywhere that I can go to find the truth?
Electronic Intifada?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 02:53 PM

"So all our media is now in Zionist hands and nothing can be believed."
You've seen the BBC statement Keith - yet refuse to even commencement on it.
One thingls for certain; Israel would not be spending the billions it is on propaganda if it wasn't giving them a return.
You haven't linked us to "all our media" - just the ones who make your case and all directly traceable back to one form of pro-Israeli organisation or other.
You always do this - come in with a set agenda then scrabble around for cut-'n-pastes to back it up.
I've given you examples of some of your 'evidence's' links to Israel - no comment.
I've given you direct links to Israel's now out-of-hand behaviour - no comment.
I've shown you how much is being spent on propaganda - no comment.
I've given you the Labour Party's historical position on Antisemitism - no comment.
You started his thread as if you were actually interested in the situation - you aren't - you never have been, not in the case against Israel, not in The Jewish People, certainly not in the truth of the matter.
If there is a major problem in the labour party - what exactly is it - not what 'the friends of Israel' think - what do you think and more to the point, what do you actually know?
You've already been caught out telling porkies about the NEC
You have yet to tell us who exatly are these "lots of people"
You find the truth by using your own common sense on the facts we can rely on.
Logic tells me that, as there is a long running battle going on between Left and Right in the Labour Party, while, at the same time, Israel is desperately trying to dig itself out of the massive hole it is digging for itself in the Middle East and as Israel is in the hands of a ruthlessly inhuman regime who are behaving like crooked despots, what with him cooking the books and his wife drinking herself into oblivion and treating the hired help as personal slaves, then perhaps we can't believe everything claimed by a press that is pretty much going along with this nasty little bunch of very dangerous despots.
You want to convince us of your arguments then put some up that don't leak like a Liverpool supporter who had just downed twenty pints.
Where is your evidence and where is your common sense?
Why should a political party who, for all its flaws, has sttod up for The Jewish and the Islamic and the blacks and the poor.... and all the people your lot has traditionally stamped on.... why should they, overnight have turned into a bunch of Antisemites?
I could easily have believed it of your party - that has been their raison detre throughout their history.
God knows, I'm no 'New Labour' supporter, but I can recogognise a fit-up when I see one - your role as a serial Israeli atrocity denier only confirms my suspicions.
Your turn now - call me a liar, you usually do.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 03:10 PM

Keth - I'm outraged that you think I'm outraged.... 🙄


I don't do energy wasting stressy emotions.....


Actually, the wife wishes I was less self restrained and more excitable and over emotive like the Americans on the daytime telly...

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 03:33 PM

"Actually, the wife wishes......"
You too - must have a pint sometime and discuss tactics
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 04:56 PM

So all our media is now in Zionist hands and nothing can be believed.
You are right Jim.
That does invalidate everything I have said here.

To anti-semites anything positive about Israel is automatically propaganda of the all powerful Jew controlled media. This is how they justify their claim of not being anti-semites.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 06:01 PM

Yeah - anti-semites are complete arseholes... it's their loss if they can not delight in all the great things about Israeli landscape, arts and culture...

Pity the poor ignorant bastards...


Glad to say I don't actually know any..... 😎

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 04:55 AM

"To anti-semites anything positive about Israel is automatically propaganda"
And to Israel - any criticism of their extremist right-wing policy is Antisemitism - their minister said so.
That is, by definition, is nationalist extremism of the type that fed the Nazi gas chambers - Deutschland Uber Alles - remember?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 05:21 AM

Jim,
You haven't linked us to "all our media" - just the ones who make your case and all directly traceable back to one form of pro-Israeli organisation or other.

I have mostly used BBC, The Independent and Guardian, and not their opinions but direct quotes of Labour politicians.
Had they been misquoted I am sure they would have found a way expose the lies.

You have yet to tell us who exatly are these "lots of people"

I have quoted lots of Labour politicians.

You've already been caught out telling porkies about the NEC

All I have put up about the NEC is a direct quote from "Labour List."
Is that under Zionist control?

Here is what I posted.

"Alice Perry's NEC report: Corbyn, fighting prejudice and listening to voters online
23RD MAY, 2016 3:22 PM"

"The NEC are appalled by recent cases of anti-Semitic abuse. Anti-Semitism has no place in the Labour Party and is contrary to everything we stand for."
http://labourlist.org/2016/05/alice-perrys-nec-report-corbyn-fighting-prejudice-and-listening-to-voters-online/

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 06:12 AM

From the same piece in Labour List.

"Shami Chakrabarti, who will be chairing a wider ranging inquiry looking at anti-Semitism within the Labour Party. The entire NEC recognises the seriousness of this issue and is committed to addressing all the issues raised by these inquiries. "
http://labourlist.org/2016/05/alice-perrys-nec-report-corbyn-fighting-prejudice-and-listening-to-voters-online/

So all you people who claim that antisemitism within Labour is not a serious issue are directly contradicted by the Labour Party National Executive committee who say it is, and they are appalled by recent antisemitic abuse.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 08:52 AM

This is the tool racists use to identify, mark out and discredit Jewish public figures and writers.

Coincidence Detector

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 09:01 AM

What antisemitic abuse, Keith? Remarks about Israel (not about Jews) by Naz Shah? Remarks about Zionists and Hitler which were historically correct, commenting on the politics, not the innate nature of Jews? Remarks about the slave trade which were also historically correct, not exclusively about Jews in any case, made by a woman who is a descendant of Jews, along with her partner? Do you actually know what antisemitism is, or do you just rely on your disreputable and dishonest ally on this forum for moral support for your untenable position?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Allan Conn
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 09:52 AM

You know I am not going to read this entire thread so apologise if it has already been said, and I don't know what other comments she's had in her life and what the context was, however the original Facebook post that caused all this was a storm in a teacup. Many claim that the Labour politician seriously suggested all Jews should be relocated to the US - but she didn't. She shared a FB post (who's author is himself Jewish) that was supposed to be satirical and tongue in cheek. I remember seeing the post myself and not thinking it funney enough to share. I suppose the main point being that through the years the Israeli state could often expect support from the US to the extent that it may as well be another US state. Whatever one thinks there is a massive difference between sharing a humourous post (be it bad taste or not) and seriously suggesting people should be relocated.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 10:52 AM

What antisemitic abuse, Keith?

I do not know Steve.
It was the NEC who said they were appalled by recent examples of it, and that it was "a serious issue."
Perhaps it is you who are unable to recognise it.

Do you actually know what antisemitism is, or do you just rely on your disreputable and dishonest ally on this forum for moral support for your untenable position?

I have relied on Labour politicians and members who have attacked antisemitism within Labour.

You are just shooting at the messenger.

Do you actually know what antisemitism is, because your party has a very different view of it than you do.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 11:05 AM

Comparing Israel to Nazis is anti-Semitic, 31 Western states declare

An intergovernmental body devoted to commemorating the Holocaust adopted a definition of anti-Semitism that includes some hate speech against Israel.

The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, or IHRA, adopted the definition on May 26, according to a statement posted earlier this week on its website. The organization was launched in 1998 and has 31 member states, all of them Western nations, and 11 observer countries.

The text closely resembles a document that had served as the European Union's working definition of anti-Semitism before Brussels distanced itself from the definition following lobbying and criticism by pro-Palestinian activists.

Adopted in 2005 by the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia – a body set up by the European Union to combat racism – it was removed in 2013 from the website of the Fundamental Rights Agency, the body that replaced the centre. A spokesperson for the agency told JTA the EU neither needed nor had a real definition for the phenomenon. She said the document had been pulled as part of maintenance work on the website.


Of IHRA's 31 members, which include the United States and Canada, 24 are EU member states. Another two EU states are observers.


JTA

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 11:17 AM

Why would any nation feel it would need to try to ban the rest of the world from ever comparing it to n@zi Germany...???

...unless.....?????? 🤔



funny old world.. innit....

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 11:47 AM

.. and another morsel of sunny weekend fast food for thought...

At this point in the 21st Century, are ultra right wing Jews and ultra right wing Christians..

'innately' antagonistic sparring partners ?

'uneasy' expedient allies ?

'happily married' bedfellows ?



... what with all that "the enemy of my enemy is my best mate" international political chicanery.....????? 😕

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 06:28 PM

Why would any nation feel it would need to try to ban the rest of the world from ever comparing it to n@zi Germany...???

...unless.....??????

Why would anyone ever want to propagate such a hurtful calumny on a nation being fully aware of it's history.........unless..........??????

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 06:42 PM

... unless one was a sane moderate tolerant Israeli Jew sick of the climate of ultra right wing terror gripping my nation's government......????

..that one sound about right to me...


btw.. had to look up "calumny".. don't see that one every day this century... 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 07:35 PM

ultra right wing terror

Well there you go. The only "ultra right wing terror" most Jews in Israel see is that of Arab fanatics trying to murder them by stabbing, shooting and running them down with vehicles or launching rockets at civilians and building tunnels with which to infiltrate the country and murder them. But this doesn't seem to be of concern to you......I wonder why........hmmm.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 08:07 PM

bobad - Because I'm a covert musl;m terr@rist pretending to be an English humanist who is 1/4 Polish Jew by blood...

...there you go.. that's the answer you want.. have that one free on me,
it is the weekend after all, and a very sunny one at that....

Now back to reality...

Israel should have been a great place to live,
brutal murderous mad arseholes on both sides are ensuring it is not..

Wicked blood for blood, eye for an eye, tit for tat, revenge war of attrition is exactly what the sociopath warmongers on both sides thrive on..

But it is a completely shit lifestyle for civilian populations...

Bob 'n' keith, you both strike me as personality types that could never be satisfied by peaceful solutions...????? 😣

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 08:14 PM

Israel should have been a great place to live

Israel is a great place to live for Jews and non Jews alike - attested to by the fact that the vast majority of non Jews say that they would rather live in Israel than any other state in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 08:32 PM

Hmm......now after seeing this I'm not so sure, maybe Gaza is the great place to live: Hundreds of Heterosexuals Executed During Tel Aviv's Gay Pride Week

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 08:36 PM

Bobad - ..but there are wealthy 'fortress communities' popping up all over the place where the inhabitants would say something similar...

Even in my provincial west country town property developers bought a large area of land in the best location,
and built an exclusive gated community for affluent newcomers...

Of course they probably don't give a shit about the rest of us outside their walls...??? 🙄



[mudcat problems effing up posts again - I thought this one got through ok 10 mins ago..??]

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 16 - 02:21 AM

"I have mostly used BBC, The Independent and Guardian"
The BBC had admitted that it is heavily biased towards pro-Israeli police - the quotes you have given come from right wing Labour party people who have links to pro Israeli organisations, such as Jim Murphy.
The same goes for the rest of the press.
There is a battle going on at present over control of the Labour Party and Anti-Semitism is as good a stick to use in that battle as any.
There is a billion dollar campaign going on at present to make all critics of Israel Anti-Semites - One Israeli minister has openly made this accusation.
"Shami Chakrabarti,"
Who says Shami Chakrabarti, is "worried?
The Labour Party has been accused of Anti-Semitism - it is only right that this accusation should be investigated and one of the first things to be examined is whether these accusations have any grounding in fact.
So far, two examinations, including the Oxford one, have found Labour not guilty, future enquiries may find the same.
You already have the accused out of his cell and the rope over the branch ready for the lynching - hopefully people like you will not be let a million miles within any fair-minded enquiry.
The Conservative Party is holding an enquiry into possible Islamophobia within its ranks (not before time) - should we all get out our ropes now or should we wait for the verdict.
The Tory party is not only infested with Islamophobia, but much of its policies are based on accusing the Muslim communities of being infiltrated by terrorists – you have made such accusations yourself, without evidence.
You have led campaigns against the Islam religion on this forum – Bobad is now making postings attacking Muslim countries on this thread, as he has regularly in the past
Where is your concerns for the million law-abiding citizens of Britain (rhetorical question – I know exactly where it is?)
Anti-immigration, and anti-refugeeism is rife in Britain and has created a new political party in Britain, started by a beer-swilling Donald Trump sound-alike.
I once claimed that, based on my experience of living in three major cities, I believe Britain to be a deeply racist country – you leapt on your chair and accused me of being a racist for doing so.
It transpires that a survey suggests that one in three of the British population admit to being racist - beats the tiny number of Labourites who have chosen their words badly and might – just might - hold Anti-Semitic views into a cocked hat.

CONFESSED RACISM IN BRITAIN

The Israeli shit-machine spends billions claiming that all criticism of Israeli policy is Anti-Semitic – you are first in the field with your banner flying to support them.
Where is your outrage for the millions of who suffer Anti-Muslim abuse daily?
Where is your outrage for the many millions on non-indigenous citizens of Britain who experience prejudice on a daily basis, both from the ordinary people of Britain and from its institutions?
Where was your thread when Britain's police force declared itself institutionally racist?
Do you personally have any evidence of Anti Semitism or are you happy to take the word of Pro-Israeli organisations and extreme right-wingers trying to oust the present Labour Leadership (what a stupid question Jim, go into the dunce's corner!!)
Your 'concern' over Anti Semitism isn't based on an interest in humanity, in the welfare of The Jewish people as a whole – your concern is based entirely on your ongoing support of Israeli right-wing terrorism which you claim doesn't exist because politicians don't say it does – not even because they actually speak ot in defence of Israel – the vast majority of them noticeably don't – you bizarrely interpret silence as support.
Do you actually have any evidence that Anti-Semitism is any more a problem in the Labour Party than it is in any other political group or in British society in general – of course you don't, because no such evidence exists.
Do you have any explanation as to why a political party historically dedicated to fighting all forms of racism, particularly Anti Semitism, should overnight do a flip and become Anti Semitic?
You have opened this thread because you have chosen to make yourself part of the current campaign by Israel to absolve itself from crimes against humanity by making such claims "Anti-Semitic.
"Comparing Israel to Nazis is anti-Semitic"
"Accusing the Jewish people as a whole of Israel's crimes against humanity is Anti-Semitic by definition.
You have done so on a regular basis - nobody else here has ever suggested that "The Jews did it", other than you 11.
Leading members of the Israeli establishment are now comparing the actions of the extremist establishment to Pre War Germany - are they "Anti-Semites?
You people have torn up the definition book and accused us of Anti-Semitism - there are no longer any rules as far as I am concerned.
Anybody who accuses the Jewish people of the crimes committed by the right-wing government in Israel is, in my (and the rule book) an Anti-Semite - if you accuse us critics of Israel of being Anti-Semitic, that makes you, by definition, a Jew Hater.
Don't do it again, I really am not happy in the presence of such people - I was alive when Jew haters filled extermination ovens.
Jim Carroll.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jun 16 - 04:43 AM

the quotes you have given come from right wing Labour party people

Bollocks!
They are mainstream, lifelong, dedicated Labour members.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 16 - 04:50 AM

Answer the points I have just made Keith - random cut-'n-pastes prove sfa.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jun 16 - 05:16 AM

You have led campaigns against the Islam religion on this forum

Blatant, disgusting lie.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 16 - 06:27 AM

"Blatant, disgusting lie."
You really don't want me to dig up....... nah - couldn't possibly.
Stop dodging the question
Where is your evidence that there is a serious problem in the Labout party (apart from right-wingers) and where is your outrage in the inherent and admitted racism in Britain and where has any prominent Labour leader or body claimed that Anti-Semitism exists in the Party .... and all the other facts you have been presented with?
Where is your actual evidence that it is anything other the part of the Israeli billion-dollar propaganda campaign?
Stop diverting us from the main point with protestations of something you are noted for.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 04 Jun 16 - 06:44 AM

You have led campaigns against the Islam religion on this forum

And so what even if he had? You and others, including your fellow traveler Shaw, have not been reticent in condemning other religions. Religions are nothing but a collection of ideas and as such are open to criticism. What's so special about Islam other than some devout Muslims believe you should be killed for criticizing it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 16 - 07:22 AM

"And so what even if he had?"
because it is an evil practice to attack a million British citizens - every bit as evil as Asnt--Semitsim, and at the present time a damned sight more dangerous t the British people as a whole - it radiaclises young people to islamism. that's what
"Religions are nothing but a collection of ideas "
And freedom of religion a basic tenet of Western society.
"some devout Muslims believe you should be killed for criticizing it."
The history of all religions is one of violence and persecution - especially in Israel, where they are setting up an Apartheid state based on the prevailing religion there.
You talk about "some Muslims - then go and count the dead victims of Israeli terrorism carried out in the name of Judaism - no contest.
It is now becoming obvious that you have no interest in the welfare of the Jewish People, being as dismissive as you are of their and all religions.
Personally, I couldn't give a toss abot any religion - just the people who are damaged by it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 04 Jun 16 - 08:00 AM

because it is an evil practice to attack a million British citizens

"Attacking" a collection of ideas is not attacking those who believe in them. When you "attack" Catholicism are you "attacking" millions of Catholics?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 16 - 08:35 AM

""Attacking" a collection of ideas is not attacking those who believe in them"
You and your friend have always targeted people Bobad, from claiming them to be potential sexual perverts by way of their religion, through, suggesting that they have no right to their traditional homeland to branding them all as suspect terrorists.
Happy to join you in a discussion on religion - it seems we might agree on something at last, but please don't try to dodge responsibility for your constant attempts to smear adherents to a selected religion.
It really doesn't hold water with your track records.
Jim Carroll