BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jun 16 - 12:38 PM

Pfr, I just put up for discussion something that was briefly a major news item.

What happened next was a group of abusive people denying the truth of the story.
I found myself having to produce the evidence that your denials were wrong.

I was not driven by any antipathy to Labour.

Why is it so important to You to doggedly prove the Labour party is antisemitic... ???

It is not. I just rebutted your claims that it was not even an issue.

Why are you only focusing your concentration on the Labour party...???

Because that was the subject of this thread.
But for all the denials, it would have died after a couple of days.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jun 16 - 01:09 PM

Keith - I can almost accept that as a reasonably satisfactory answer and explanation...

Whilst I may disagree on your perception of how this debate gained persistent momentum, who's denying what,
and who the 'bad guys' may or may not be....
why be petty...???

If you genuinely mean "I was not driven by any antipathy to Labour."

Then that's fair enough grounds for amicable conclusion for me...

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Jun 16 - 01:13 PM

Keith A of Hertford - 15 Jun 16 - 12:38 PM

Good post Keith, that has been my reading and understanding of it from the start.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jun 16 - 01:42 PM

"What is happening in the Mid East is the fault of IS and the war in Syria."What is happening in the middle Esat has been happening for decades - before Isis was a twinkle
Israel has been landgrabbbin or that period and more - that is fully accepted as the root cause of the problem even among Israel's few friends
Wonder where Issis was at the time of sabra Shatila - oh - I forgot Israel didn't do it
" Jim, this thread is not about Middle East either."
This tread is whatever we choose to make it - your mate has just tried to make it about Ireland - you'll ignore this, of course
Stop tring to silence the truth - we'll make it about what we feel relevant
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jun 16 - 01:42 PM

I take it that you use the word "understanding" advisedly.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jun 16 - 01:55 PM

This is what this has always been about
AND THIS
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jun 16 - 02:28 PM

f sabra Shatila - oh - I forgot Israel didn't do it

Correct.
It was an Arab Militia.
Israel stopped it.

Where does the Labour Party come in to it Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jun 16 - 03:10 PM

"Israel stopped it."
Israel facilitated, armed the killers, provided them with transport, opened the gates, provided flares so the massacre could go on for three nights, turneed reugees trying to escape back into the camp, drove the killers to the airport, provided bulldozers to bury the bodies, then built a stadium over the mass graves so nobody could aver calculate how many were murdered (3,500 unarmed refugees)- have I forgotten anything oh yas, nearly forgot, then elected the officer responsible Prime Minister
Yep - you're right - the did stop it - stop those responsible from being punished, that is
Jim Carroll
THIS IS WHAT IT'S ABOUT AS WELL

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 02:38 AM

If you want to discuss the Arab/Israeli conflict Carroll start a thread on it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 03:52 AM

"If you want to discuss the Arab/Israeli conflict Carroll start a thread on it."
Will you mind your own business.
As far as I am concerned, this is about how Israel is interfering in British politics in order to offset its own behavior - if Keith had wished to only include opinions that coincided with his own when he opened this thread, he should have listed what we can and cannot discuss on it - then perhaps the administrators would never have allowed such an obvious piece of agenda-driving propaganda to be put up in the first place.
Sabra Shatila was the greatest single act of mass murder of non-combatants (in this case, 3,500 unarmed men, women and children, all refugees) since the end of World War One.
It was made possible, armed and facilitated by the Israeli Government (that is unquestionable), and was almost certainly ordered by them.
It had nothing to do with warfare - it was the massacre of innocents who were not involved in war - if any act by the Israeli regime can be compared to the Holocaust, this takes pride of place.
It is now, according to Israel's Minister of Justice, Ayelet Shaked, "Antisemitic" to accuse Israel of this crime against humanity - criticism of Israel, according to her "is the same anti-Semitism of blood libels, spreading lies, distorting reality and brainwashing people into hating Israel and the Jews".
If we are discussing Britain''s Labour Party's so-called "Antisemitism" we need to be able to establish exactly what the word means, what exactly The Labour Party is being accused of.
As far as I can see, with a few dubious exeptions, the only accusations so far are against those who have criticised Israel, not the Jewish People.
If that's the case, most of the world is Antisemitic - very few people have openly supported Israeli policy, the self-interested and cowardly have remained silent or have made feeble excuses, but the people who I would choose as spokesmen for my conscience (can't speak for those who have no conscience) have overwhelmingly condemned Israeli actions as mass murder, not just at Sabra Shatila, but in their actions against the Palestinian people as a whole.
Israel stands to become as much a pariah State as was Apartheid South Africa.
You people have no interest in the Jewish People - you have accepted Israel's accusation that Jewish critics of Israel are "self-hating Jews" - that is the level of concern for the Jews.
Keith set out to denigrate, Jewish critics of Sabra Shatila, on-the spot eye-witnesses who "couldn't possible have seen" what they reported.
A "self hating", presumable Israeli soldier who observed the massacre and had a breakdown because of it, gave a testimony which became a prize-winning animated film, 'Waltz With Bashir' - rejected by Keith.
Jews throughout the world have contemned the massacre for what it was - an act of attempted genocide - that was "Antisemitic" according to Ms, Shaked.
History is full of such Jewish "Antisemites" - Einstein and his fellow Jewish intellectuals, Jews for Justice, Rabbis for Justice, the staff of Haaretz, the Holocaust Survivors and their descendants, who signed that massive petition, and the many hundreds of thousands of heroic Jews who have spoken against the destruction of their dream of Israel..... all "Antisemites".
If we can't even discuss this definition we might as well buy the popcorn, take our seats and sit down to enjoy the next massacre because, as sure as the next number 41 bus, there'll be another one along in a minute.
So far, as far as I can see, all these accusations have been generated by 'friends of Israel' and the definition they are using is that now being touted by them - any criticism of Israeli policy is Antisemitic" by its very nature.
If this is the case, the Labour Party have as much of a case to answer as do Bobad's hysterically accused "Antisemitic Jew-Haters" - in other word - there is no case to answer, m'lud.
Never again attempt to censor or manipulate or tell members of this forum what we should or should not be discussing or where we should be discussing it neither of you have a shred of authority here, neither do you have our respect - your persistent and ongoing behaviour has made sure of that.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 03:54 AM

Israel's version of events is very different.
I have put it to you many times, but you just dismiss it, preferring propaganda.
If you want to discuss events of over 30 years ago yet again, start a thread or reopen one of the many that already exist.

This thread is about the Labour Party and antisemitism.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 04:39 AM

"Israel's version of events is very different."
Why wouldn't it be - what criminal ever readily admits its guilt?
"I have put it to you many times, but you just dismiss it, preferring propaganda."
Eye witness accounts from nurses and soldiers are propaganda - why exactly?
Do not be stupid.
The facts of Sabra Shatila have long been researched, established and fully documented - your behaviour is identical to that of a Holocaust denier.
"This thread is about the Labour Party and antisemitism."
Exactly - and in order to discuss it we need to examine what kind of   "antisemitism" the Labour Party is being accused of and the nature of the people who have inspired those accusations.
The fact that you are now running around like a headless chicken trying to attempt to censor that discussion says much about the peole who are making those accusations - please keep running, it underlines my point perfectly.
Censorship of this type should be totally alien to forums like Mudcat.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 05:25 AM

I am not trying to censor discussion.
I would be very happy to challenge all that ludicrous propaganda again, just not on a thread about the Labour Party.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 06:00 AM

"I am not trying to censor discussion."
That is exactly what you and your mate are doing
Both of you appear totally incapable of grasping what you are doing.
I had no intention of discussing Sabra Shatila - I used it as an example of the nature of the regime that has generated accusations against the Labour party and also as an example of something that, if discussed critically, becomes Antisemitism to Israel and her supporters.
You have managed to turn the spotlight directly on it enabling me to detail exactly what happened - many thanks for that opportunity, I will take up your generous offered opportunity and repeat the sequence of events:
"Israel facilitated, armed the killers, provided them with transport, opened the gates, provided flares so the massacre could go on for three nights, turned refugees trying to escape back into the camp, drove the killers to the airport, provided bulldozers to bury the bodies, then built a stadium over the mass graves so nobody could aver calculate how many were murdered (3,500 unarmed refugees)- have I forgotten anything oh yas, nearly forgot, then elected the officer responsible Prime Minister "
Had you just let it pass, I would have moved on, having made my point but you couldn't resist appeasing yet another Israeli atrocity.
Your "challenge" of this atrocity was and remains "Israel says they didn't do it" - you have even been forced to admit that you are just putting their point of view..
Discussing it with people like you is as pointless as it gets - the fcacts are now fully accepted and we all know in advance what your arguments are - "Israel is innocent".
I will raise this matter whenever I feel it appropriate to do so - that's what democracy is all about.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 06:45 AM

Jim Carroll - 16 Jun 16 - 03:52 AM

"Will you mind your own business."

What a truly bizarre thing to say on a public forum - shows just how much grip on reality the poster has. Correct me if I am wrong but on another current thread weren't you condemning people for posting off topic? What a weather vane your mind, or what passes for it, must be.

As far as I am concerned, this is about how Israel is interfering in British politics in order to offset its own behavior

Currently Israel is not interfering with anything.

if Keith had wished to only include opinions that coincided with his own when he opened this thread, he should have listed what we can and cannot discuss on it

Looking back at the OP Keith A called attention to the actions and comments made by the National Executive Committee of the Labour Party and the fact that they saw fit to suspend 50 members of their party for alleged anti-Semitism. He then asked for comments. Another example of you jumping in to comment on what you THOUGHT had been said - NOT what actually had been posted.

Our very own little Wolfie Smith on steroids.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 07:06 AM

"What a truly bizarre thing to say on a public forum"
When anybody attempts to suppress discussion as you two have, it is the only thing to say
"Currently Israel is not interfering with anything."
Currently Israel is spending billions on a propaganda campaign to make discussing its atrocities "Antisemitic" and the attacks on the Labour Party are very much a part of that campaign, as shown by the fact that the only people claiming Antisemitism to be a problem in the Labour Party are directly linked to active Pro-Israeli propaganda organisations.
To save Keith repeating himself - the problem is that accusations have ben made, not Antisemitism - whoops - you have already said what he was going to say.
It would be improper not to have suspended people who have been accused - nobody has been found guilty of those accusations.
Look back more closely.
Keith never asks for opinions - he demands confirmation that he is rught and goes ballistic when he never gets it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 08:31 AM

"Our very own little Wolfie Smith on steroids."
Missed a bit.
I never had a lot of time for Wolfie Smith - far too close to the pseudo-revolutionaries of the 60s who believed they could beat capitalism to death with bunches of flowers.
I'm far happier being compared to him than the to the caricatures you pair present - you in your reincarnation of flag-wagging Captain Mainwearing, and Keith's weird combination of hand-wringing Uriah Heep and a latter-day Alf Garnett - neither of you need artificial stimulants; you have the roles off to perfection already.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 09:20 AM

bugger.... thank you very much mates...

.. it's going to be nagging me now for the rest of the afternoon..

which mudcatter is most like Blakey off "On The Buses"..???


.. it'd most likely have to be one of the mods...????? 😜

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 09:58 AM

Jim, you can not be stopped in your deranged attempts to bring Israel in to this, but no-one is going to engage with you.
You will just be ranting to yourself like the mad old man you become when something starts you off on Israel.

Israel is far from the worst regime in the world, so your obsession is completely irrational.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 10:05 AM

It would be improper not to have suspended people who have been accused - nobody has been found guilty of those accusations.

Guilty?
It is not a crime to express antisemitic views, but it is unacceptable to the party.
In the opinion of the NEC and prominent members, antisemitic views HAVE been expressed.
The enquiry may or may not agree.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 10:28 AM

"It is not a crime to express antisemitic views, but it is unacceptable to the party."
The question of guilt is not necessary a legal term
as you will know, particuklarly as you haVE USED THE TERM HERE
"The group is seeking to change Labour's rules to make it easier to expel and ban members for life if they are found guilty of anti-Semitism."".
yOU rEALLY ARE NOT VERY GOOD AT THIS, ARE YOU?
jIM cARROLL

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 10:41 AM

Supporters of [the alleged failing state] Israel's Government regime,
may care to ponder the alleged extent of infiltration by hardline extremist Russian Jewish immigrants;
and the alleged takeover of Israeli criminal underground by the Russian Mafia.
Consider also the alleged lax financial laws that make Israel a safe haven for Russian mafia money laundering and corruption at highest state levels...

Conspiracy theorists and the more sensible among us can read much about this on google..

Sources vary from credible objective well informed commentators.. to vilest white supremacist antisemitic bloggers..

If even some of that is true.. How long before Israel becomes an out of control rogue state....??????

If the other 3/4 of me was also jewish, I'd still be thinking twice about pledging unconditional support to the Israeli regime...

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 10:57 AM

" but no-one is going to engage with you"
You have, and that's enough for me - when has being engaged with ever bothered you - nobody takes yo seriously other than the couple who are as baty as you are.
"Israel is far from the worst regime in the world"
That's a moot point now - the last thing the world wants wt present is a religion driven regime with nuclear capability attempting to set up an apartheid state in, of all places, The Middle East.
That's like going into an oil refinery with a flame thrower.
My "obsession" dates back to my long friendships with Jewish people, especially the Holocaust Survivor (whose daughter I nearly married) who was the first I ever heard to describe Israel as a Fascist State - she convinced me with five words - "Never again, not for anyone".
Obsession is not when you care for the people you love - it's when you defend mass murder and human rights abuses to the extent you do.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 11:17 AM

I have not and will not engage with you about Israel on this thread.
There are many, many threads on Israel already, or you could start yet another.
Most people would prefer we engaged privately by PM, which would be my preference too.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 11:29 AM

Pfr,
Conspiracy theorists and the more sensible among us can read much about this on google.

I found nothing recent except on far-right antisemitic sites.
Can you suggest anything?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 12:07 PM

"I have not and will not engage with you about Israel on this thread."
What on earth mekes you think I post so that you will "engage with me",
I'd rather yI was allowed to have my say without your obsessive support for a terrorist state and your attempts to silence ideas that don't fit your particular agenda, if it's all the same with you?
"Most people would prefer we engaged privately by PM, which would be my preference too."
Have you had a quick secret referendum as to what most people would prefer as you did with The Labour Party when you claimed what "many people" thought - "Many have been accused of antisemitism by other Labour members"
The fact is that you would prefer to be humiliated by PM rather than in public - no thanks - I prefer to get my kicks out of you where people can view it.
You are really a bit of a joke, aren't you - transparent too!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 12:30 PM

You sad, obsessed man.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 16 - 01:06 PM

Keith
You have made mine and other people's lives a misry on this forum with your obsessive desire to "win".
I am not proud of feeling satisfaction in turning the tables, but there it is - we all have ourr weaknesses.
Obsession is when you insist on repeating yourself over and over again, long after your questions have been rsponded to.
Obsession is in attempting to prove wrong something that is self evident and log accepted.
Obsession is in believing you are right and everbody is wrong or "ignoramuses" i=or muppets, then going off to complain e=hwen somebody responds to you in kind.
And above all, obsession is when you spend huge amounts of effort in trying to prove that you know more than the rest of the world.
I suggest you leave this while you are only this far behind - believe me, it can get worse.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 04:19 AM

Whither now?
Benn sacked and much of shadow cabinet set to resign!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 04:24 AM

Conservative Prime Minister set to resign.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 04:41 AM

"Conservative Prime Minister set to resign."
Don't bring up inconvenient facts otherwise you'll invoke teh screams of "thread drift".
This squalid referendum had thrown Bitish politics into chaos
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 11:58 AM

Keith - did you have to dig up this thread... it's too big and takes far too long to open and post to.
Could you please start a new one.....

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 12:22 PM

Oh Jesus, don't ask him to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 02:14 PM

Pfr, you only have to open the last page of any thread.
Hit the "d."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jun 16 - 02:40 PM

I tried doing that a few times before, but wasn't too reliable either.
Besides which, I habitually save complete threads for offline reference.

Anyway, Bonzo has just provided a new thread that should serve our purposes...???

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 04:47 AM

Heading from The Independent, 18th July,

"'I didn't get anti-Semitism as racism,' says Labour MP Naz Shah
'The language that I used was anti-Semitic, it was offensive. What I did was I hurt people'"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/anti-semitism-racism-labour-mp-naz-shah-ken-livingstone-bradford-west-a7142691.html

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 08:35 AM

Sod off, Keith, you old bore.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 09:10 AM

Oh bloody hell, they're all on this thread too.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 11:02 AM

"Oh bloody hell, they're all on this thread too."
With respect Stu - some of us have been subjected to a fair amount of abuse from one individual recently, as I'm sure you are aware.
Didn't seem to bother you too much then
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 11:49 AM

Keith - there's not enough time in a day to wait for this thread to crawl open.
Even if you click "Descending" order.. still too bloody slow...

Please use the more recent shorter threads for your labour bashing....


THIS IS A NOTIFICATION ONLY MESSAGE. PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND. YOU ARE A VALUED CUSTOMER. HAVE A NICE DAY....

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 12:01 PM

"Didn't seem to bother you too much then"

Not only do you not know that, your powers will not work on me old man.

For the record, I think you're all wrong, but there you go.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 12:28 PM

Then, Stu, you must be wrong too, as you appear to agree with us in almost everything you post. 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 12:43 PM

It's the debating style rather than the content. I love the rough and tumble but it always ends with the same people yelling at each other.

I'm undoubtedly wrong virtually all the time. I am full of shit.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 12:53 PM

"Not only do you not know that, your powers will not work on me old man."
Old certainly, not powerful.
I argue as I argue, you find problems with what I say, feel free to challenge them, but I would prefer it if all arguments we had were conducted in a polite and respectful manner.
I was pointing out what I believe to be a contradiction in your approach - you object to some people arguing but not others.
I don't know if you are full of shit, but am happy to take your word for it if that's really what you're saying
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 01:03 PM

"The online abuse is getting worse," says Tulip Siddiq, MP for Hampstead and Kilburn. "There hasn't been enough condemnation from the top about that behaviour. It should be zero tolerance of abuse — whether it's misogyny or anti-Semitism or any other form — and it needs to be said repeatedly, not just once in a while."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 01:53 PM

Oh, go away, Keith. It's clear that you get off believing that your hated Labour Party is nobbut a raving bunch of antisemites. Of course, there's no antisemitism in your Tory Party or the Church of England, is there? Hypocrite.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 02:09 PM

Tulip Sudiq is part of the attempted right-wing coup to overthrow Corbyn and her main objective is to get women elected, regardless of ability apparently.
Reading through her statement, her accusations are at the "another woman MP tells me" level.
There is no argument that sexism exists throughout politics, irrespective of parties - Westminster has always been referred to as a "Men's Club".
Sadiq's accusations od sexism come with about as much evidence as did accusations of antisemitism - very little.
Another stick for Keith to beat the Laboutr Party, it would appear
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 02:26 PM

Keith does not need a stick, the labour Party does a very good job of beating up on itself.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 03:09 PM

"Keith does not need a stick, the labour Party does a very good job of beating up on itself."
Only by embracing right-wing policies - look at what happened to the Irish Labour Party - gone, and never called me mother.
RIGHT WING DIRTY TRICKS
Keith does need a stick, like Voltaire's quote on God, "If labour didn't have problems, it would be necessary to invent some" - and he has.
One thing is certain, Blair's 'New Labour' has been an abysmal failure - Labour doesn't need a "strong" leadership, it needs principles and a strong commitment to them - a return to its Socialist base.
It's worst problem is it is virtually indistinguishable from the Tories.
looking as Siddiqu's gripes, her main bone of contention appears to be that her flavour of the month, Edna the Eagle, is out of the running.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 03:46 PM

Supporters of the Labour party may take some small comfort from the fact that theirs is not the only party infected with anti-semites. This one from the Liberal Democrat party just crawled out from under a rock: British lawmaker blames Israel for Islamic terror