BS: Pope on pedophile priests

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 05:39 PM

As I think I said a couple of hundred posts ago, here we have just-another-religion-bashing thread.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 05:54 PM

I subscribe to two Catholic publications, The National Catholic Reporter (NCR), which is very left-of-center; and America, a Jesuit publication which I consider moderate but very honest. NCR has been very critical of the actions of the bishops, almost to the point of muckraking - but it hasn't come up with any real answer about the reason for the problem. America has had more balanced coverage and did devote an entire issue to the problem - but again, no answers. I can accept that child molestation is a problem that we don't understand and don't exactly know how to treat or respond to; but what about the apparent coverups and moving sex offender priests to new parishes instead of firing and prosecuting them?
I suspect a few bishops of malfeasance, but I think most of them are basically pretty decent people even if they are conservative. So, why did all this happen? I'm surprised that these two publications haven't come up with an answer - or at least an attempt at an answer. I really don't suspect either of these publications or any collusion with a coverup - after all, both of them have had their troubles with Rome and the bishops.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 06:46 PM

I have heard a few theories. So with a fear of being accused of being anti RC, anti priest, anti vatican or anti religeous (by the RC faithful) for even discussing the issues, here they are...for discussion purposes only:

The church:
1)Some of the senor staff, right up to the Vatican, in the church were involved in similar actions, and were fearful of losing their positions within the church.

2)Homosexual activity among priests was once internally rampant (and informally accepted) within the church. This led to a tolerant view towards these activities, even involving alter boys.

3)Having sex with a woman was considered a grave sin for a priest. Sex with the same sex was viewed less so, and tolerated as a release to avoid herterosexual frolics with parishiners.

4)Having sex with an alter boy is a throwback to years gone by, when it was accepted. Much like the Royal families and and their unicks, or suiters.

5)Once ordained, a priest was once believed to answer only to God. Thus, few within the church felt empowered to take agressive action.

6)A belief that priests were being agressively lured into these acts by permissive young homosexual boys.

7)Concern with a decline in the number of priests entering the cloth, and the impact of losing any.

8)And of course, fear of the impact of huge financial settlements.

9)An incorrect internal belief that pedophile priests could be rehibilitated through internal religeous practices. Which led to a failure to get professional outside physological advice on pedophilia and rehabilitation.

Parishiners:
1)Fear of challenging the power of the church.

2)Disblief that priests could do any wrong.

3)An incorrect belief that the Vatican and powers in the church were strategically dealing with the issues/situation.

4)Fear that the church would be embarassed by bad publicity for the RC church.

5)A focus on the faith, lives outside the church, and nothing else.

6)Disblief that children were being abused by such good people.

I suspect that, given the sensitivity of the issue, the Vatican is sharing very little information with anyone who is not on the tight inside, including the National Catholic Reporter or the America. After all, while church orienated, are still are media and in the public domain.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: GUEST,MikeS
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 07:08 PM

Joe - I'd guess that child abuse occurs to a similar degree wherever it can, and with varying levels of discoverability. It's all a matter of opportunity, surely?

Susan - With the greatest respect, the subject/title of this thread kind of indicates its nature, and it's not uncommon for non-believers to have negative views on religion. That shouldn't encumber intelligent discussion between reasonable people though.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 08:48 PM

Susan - With the greatest respect, the subject/title of this thread kind of indicates its nature, and it's not uncommon for non-believers to have negative views on religion. That shouldn't encumber intelligent discussion between reasonable people though.

When people respond to a post of mine as if I am a RC and as if I am defending the RC Church, that doesn't indicate an effort at intelligient and reasonable discussion. It indicates people so mad that they post without reading posts.

The discussion has moved from the thread title to a serial attack on all things religious. That also indicates not an effort at reasonable and intelligent discussion, but an effort to persuade people to a negative viewpoint and/or vent old resentments.

In that type of atmosphere, an effort at reasonable discussion is inevitably met with continued negativity, because the goal of so many here is not discussion, but venting and persuasion. One has only to read this thread to see it.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: GUEST,MikeS
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 09:04 PM

Fair comment - I think I perhaps mistakenly took your post more personally than it was intended, as I haven't knowingly responded to a post of your's. Please accept my apologies if I've caused you any offence.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 09:17 PM

Thought this was interesting.

As to the current state of some RC churches, it seems that the current Pope predicted it many years ago:

English translation of an excerpt from Glaube und Zukunft (1970) in its 1971 Portuguese edition, titled Fe e Futuro (1971, pp. 76-78.

The book reproduces five lectures by Fr. Joseph Ratzinger given in 1969 at radios stations in Baviera and Hessen.


From today's crisis, a Church will emerge tomorrow that will have lost a great deal. She will be small and, to a large extent, will have to start from the beginning. She will no longer be able to fill many of the buildings created in her period of great splendor. Because of the smaller number of her followers, she will lose many of her privileges in society. Contrary to what has happened until now, she will present herself much more as a community of volunteers ....

"As a small community, she will demand much more from the initiative of each of her members and she will certainly also acknowledge new forms of ministry and will raise up to the priesthood proven Christians who have other jobs. In many smaller communities, respectively in social groups with some affinity, the normal care of souls will take place in this way ....

"There will be an interiorized Church, which neither takes advantage of its political mandate nor flirts with the left or the right. This will be achieved with effort because the process of crystallization and clarification will demand great exertion. It will make her poor and a Church of the little people .... All this will require time. The process will be slow and painful ....

"From this interiorized and simplified Church, a great force will pour out. The men of an [artificially] planned world will feel unspeakably isolated. When God will seem to have totally disappeared for them, they will experience a complete and horrible poverty. And then they will discover the small community of those who believe as something entirely new ....

"Her [the Church's] real crisis has hardly started. We still have to go through some great storms .... Certainly she will never again be the dominant force in society to the degree that she was until recently."

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: GUEST,MikeS
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 09:39 PM

That seems a strange thing to say - any idea what the "today's crisis" to which he refers was?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 11:16 PM

Maybe if the bishops would cut back on all the pomp, they wouldn't have to bleed the parishoners for compensation to the victims. They could also sell some of their property and cash in some of their other investments. They always seem to have money to stage huge ceremonies for the consumption of the masses.

I'm probably one of those Susan accuses of bashing religion (perhaps she's right) but I do not bash hope and faith. Its organized religion that invests in oil, the armament industry and corrupt pooliticians that worry me. As far as I'm concerned, the Roman Catholic church is a perversion of the original Catholic church. As soon as the decision to centralize the religion was made, the trouble began. Ask the Cathars.

If the foundation is weak, the structure will eventually crumble. As far as I'm concerned, the sooner, the better. Nothing good will arise until the Vatican is in ashes and the girly boys in fancy clothes are dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: GUEST,MikeS
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 11:34 PM

Have you ever been to the Vatican? The wealth is obscene, particulary when you consider the living standards in some of the poorer Catholic countries - where of course people are encouraged to breed as fast as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 12:51 AM

The "crisis" may be this:

In the 1970's, many people left the Catholic church because of the restrictions on birth control, and many priests left because of celibacy issues. Liberals were disillusioned that canges were not taking place fast enough, and conservative thought changes were happening too fast.

A lot of the child molesting that has surfaced recently, took place in the 1970's. Partial causes could be that many sexual taboos were being questioned, and that many priests were living alone instead of in rectories with three priests.

Interestingly, Ratzinger/Benedict's 1970 piece echoed what a number of liberals were saying at the time. I understand he took a turn to the right when his classroom at Tübingen was invaded by the Red Army Faction, and he was rightly terrified.

Somebody wondered why Rome hasn't paid part of the cost of the child molestation settlements. In general, functions of the Catholic Church are self-supporting, and each diocese is a separate corporation. The "local ordinary" (bishop of the diocese) is more-or-less independent - although he is sometimes overruled by Rome. Rome takes care of its own financial affairs, but it dependent on the dioceses for some support.

And, to a great extent, Rome considered this to be "an American problem," and church officials in Rome had no understanding of the problem whatsoever (and very little involvement).

Ed T, I think most of your conjectures about the attitude of parishioners are correct. For the most part, Catholic lay people have a very unrealistic view of the lives of priests. I can't agree with much of what you say about the thinking of "the church" on the matter of sexuality. Homosexual sex and sex with children is certainly not considered "less sinful" than sex with a woman. However, in many dioceses there is a strong homosexual culture among a certain small (but significant) faction of priests - in certain circles of priests, you'd think you were in the Castro District of San Francisco. Conduct is overtly sexual and flirtatious. "Straight" priests feel very uncomfortable in such circles, and can often seek friendship with parishioners instead of with classmates if this sexual culture is too strong. I would guess from the overtly sexual attitude of priests in these factions, that celibacy is not important to them. As I said above, there was a time in my sophomore year of college when this sexual atmosphere was very strong, and it felt unhealthy to me until a number of people were removed by psychological screening. While I was in the seminary, I did not know of any students being sexually active. Some did go on dates with women, but I never heard of male-male dating. I never, ever heard talk of anybody even thinking about having sex with children, or professors having sex with high school or college seminary students.

I checked the list of Wisconsin priests who had been removed for child molestation, and I think I knew five or six of them. None of them was deeply in the "homoerotic faction" I spoke of above. Most were what I could consider to be "pretty normal" when they were in college with me. I knew those five or six guys pretty well, and I cannot imagine any one of them having sex with a child. Of course, I don't know that I can imagine anyone having sex with a child.

We had a few seminary professors who did their best to make sure that we got good, solid sex education - one science professor was particularly good at that, as was my main moral theology professor. Maybe they should have told us about child molestation, but it wasn't an issue in the 1960's.

The Milwaukee Archdiocese, where I grew up, has had a reasonably good record with regards to child molesting priests, as has the Sacramento Diocese where I live now. Some incidents, but almost all were reported to law enforcement authorities and dealt with. This link (click) will lead you ot a lengthy report on the problems of Milwaukee - it isn't a pretty picture, but it does appear that the archdiocese tried to deal with the problem and that there were relatively few offenders among the 600 priests of the archdiocese. Rembert Weakland, who was Archbishop of Milwaukee after I moved away, apparently fell in love with some guy in the 1970's, and then the guy blackmailed him for half a million dollars in the late 1990's - but it doesn't even appear that the archbishop and the man had a sexual relationship. As far as I know, there were no sex problems in the Milwaukee Archdiocesan seminary that I attended. However, I learned recently that a number of high school seminarians in a religious-order seminary outside Milwaukee were molested by professors - several professors were accused (click). I wonder how that sort of thing affected priests who had gone through that seminary at the time.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 12:57 AM

I dunno, Mike, St. Peter's Basilica is a gorgeous building, built over a number of centuries by the best Renaissance artists. The rest of the Vatican looks a bit run-down, and there is very little that one would call "sumptuous." I'm kinda glad they didn't tear down St. Peter's in an austerity move, or paint over the ceiling in the Sistine Chapel. St. Peter's is well-used, by the way.
St. Peter's is the only real church in the Vatican, although there is the Sistine and other chapels. The Sistine has that nice painting on the ceiling, but it's otherwise pretty austere. There are lots of beautiful churches in Rome - in general, they belong to the local parishes. Catholic dioceses do spend a lot of money maintaining museum-piece churches that are no longer needed, but who wants to tear them down or buy them? Most Catholics, even we liberals, are quite fond of those beautiful churches and the stories behind them. Seems like a better use of money than the Cathedrals of Sport that cities build for privately-owned athletic teams in the United States. Our local basketball team wants the city to help them build an arena to replace their 20-year-old building. How often are churches considered obsolete and torn down after 20 years?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: GUEST,MikeS
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 01:22 PM

Joe - I wasn't really advocating the demolition of buildings and destruction of artwork. One doesn't have to be a Catholic to appreciate and respect beauty, believe me. I'd be interested to see the Vatican's accounts though - are they ever made public? Or available to members of the Church?

The idea of responsibility at local level looks very wrong to me, albeit perhaps essential for the size of operation and its survival.

Thanks for taking the time to be so informative Joe, it really is appreciated, and you represent your Faith admirably. I'm just trying to make sense of the world, and human nature - nothing more than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Barry Finn
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 02:22 PM

The buck needs to stop somewhere!

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: GUEST,Joe Offer, at the (Catholic) Women's Center
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 09:37 PM

The idea of reponsibility on the local level looks wrong to you, Mike?

Maybe I misunderstand you, but I have to say I'm very glad that Catholic parishes are as autonomous as they are. I'm a voluntary member of the church, and I can't see myself being dictated to by Rome. I do appreciate the worldwide union the Catholic Church provides, especially the feeling of solidarity with third world countries - but I also treasure my autonomy. In a semi-autonomous parish, I can make a big difference - and I do. In a worldwide monolith, I'd be just another spoke in the wheel. No, thanks. That's not what I signed on for.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: GUEST,MikeS
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 12:06 AM

You misunderstand me Joe, I meant the responsibility for the financial compensation of sexual abuse victims. I can well see the advantages of the structure as you describe it, but I can equally see how it can be, and probably is, used less honourably. I believe that rank should always be accompanied by responsibility.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: GUEST,Ed T (at another computer)
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 12:06 PM

"Through our sunless lanes creeps Poverty with her hungry eyes, and Sin with his sodden face follows close behind her. Misery wakes us in the morning and Shame sits with us at night." - Oscar Wilde

"It is safest to be moderately base -- to be flexible in shame, and to be always ready for what is generous, good and just, when anything is to be gained by virtue." - Sydney Smith

"To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong" - Joseph Chilton Pearce

"When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind as to subscribe his professional belief for to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commision of every other crime." - Thomas Paine

"Religion and art spring from the same root and are close kin. Economics and art are strangers."

"What is the most important for democracy is not that great fortunes should not exist, but that great fortunes should not remain in the same hands." - Alexis de Tocqueville
- Willa Cather

There are two kinds of light--the glow that illuminates, and the glare that obscures."
- James Thurber

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: GUEST,MikeS
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 03:40 PM

"Fear is the root of all courage"
- Vivian Stanshall

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 03:25 PM

A lot of this would have worked a lot better if American bishops were pastors, not businessmen. They need to have businessmen working for them as administrators to keep things running and keep the bills paid, but the bishop should be primarily a pastor - serving people on a heart-level.

Trouble is, that's not the tradition in the American Catholic Church, where the best candidates for bishop were the "brick-and-mortar men" who made names for themselves collecting huge donations and erecting impressive buildings. I thought we had moved away from that after Vatican II, but then John Paul II selected a new crop of bureaucrats and businessmen as bishops. We now have a whole generation of yes-men bishops. I hope Benedict XVI will help change that climate a bit. We need more bishops like Oscar Romero of San Salvador and Joseph Cardinal Bernardin of Chicago. We had a good one in Sacramento, Francis Quinn, but he retired 15 years ago and was replaced by a businessman bishop.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 03:56 PM

Makes sense Joe.
The most important part of a church is its foundation, not the steeple at the top.
I trust the Pope reads this thread for direction :)

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 08:51 PM

Could there be a nest of these fellows at higher levels? See today's news article from Canada below:


Ottawa police issue warrant for ex-N.S. bishop Lahey wanted on child pornography charges Wed. Sep 30 - 4:19 PM

An arrest warrant has been issued for a former Roman Catholic bishop from Nova Scotia charged with possession and importation of child pornography.

The Ottawa Police Service Internet child exploitation unit charged Raymond Lahey, 69, on Sept. 25, 10 days after he was pulled over at Macdonald-Cartier International Airport in Ottawa by Canada Border Services Agency officers.

Mr. Lahey, who recently helped broker a landmark $15-million settlement to a class-action sexual abuse lawsuit against the Diocese of Antigonish, was returning from the U.S. on Sept. 15 through the Ottawa airport when border officials pulled him aside for a secondary examination, according to a news release from Ottawa police.

Border services officers found images on his laptop computer "that were of concern", according to the release.

Officials seized his computer and other media devices. Mr. Lahey was released "pending further investigation", the release said.

Now, Ottawa police and border services officials are asking anyone with information about the investigation to call the Ottawa Police Service Internet Child Exploitation Unit at 1-613-236-1222, ext. 5640.

The bishop, named to the position in 2003, is a Newfoundlander who once served as a professor of theology at Memorial University in St. John's.

Mr. Lahey was credited with helping to broker the settlement to a lawsuit brought against the diocese by the brother of a man who had claimed he was sexually abused as a child.

Ronald Martin, whose brother wrote a suicide note in 2002 that led to charges of sex crimes against a priest from the diocese, filed a class-action lawsuit last year against the organization.

The settlement is aimed at compensating anyone who was allegedly and known to have been sexually assaulted by a priest of the Catholic Episcopal Corp. of Antigonish since Jan. 1, 1950. Last month, Mr. Lahey said the agreement was the first step in recognizing the alleged abuse of children as young as eight years old.

"I recognize that my resignation takes place at a time when the diocese is facing a variety of demanding challenges," he wrote in a letter dated Saturday and released on Sunday explaining his resignation.

"While I will no longer be with you on this journey, I am confident that your faith and compassion will continue to sustain you as they have always done . . . I have already left the diocese to take some much-needed time for personal renewal."
([e-mail])

WRITINGS OF FORMER BISHOP RAYMOND LAHEY
Bishop Lahey's resignation letter and biography
A letter to parents from the Roman Catholic bishops of Nova Scotia: Your Child and Sex Education (2004)
Letter to parishioners on same-sex marriage (2006)
Source: www.antigonishdiocese.com

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 02:06 AM

I haven't read right thru this long thread which has just been refreshed; so if this has been mentioned before, apologies — but I suspect not.

Visiting friends in LA in Oct 2003, my late wife & I {not RC} visited the new Cathedral; where we were interested to find a Chapel dedicated to child victims of clerical sexual abuse. This seemed to us some attempt to make amends. Is anyone else on this thread aware of this Chapel? Has visited it? Entered it for purpose of prayer, perhaps? Nobody I have mentioned it to, in US or here in UK, has known about it. Is it still there?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: bankley
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 07:47 AM

I have a friend that drove taxi and regularly picked up Joe Ratzinger (before he became Benedict) for trips from Regensburg to Munich.. they used to discuss all kinds of things... on one trip the subject came around to monotheism versus polytheism. My buddy believes in many of the old Germanic dieties, so they didn't see eye to eye on this... The conversation got heated and the Ratz was ordered out of the cab. He was left standing by the side of the road out in the country. So I guess I can say I know someone that threw the Pope out of a taxi..
Joe made out okay, and has some fancy digs in Italy now....and probably will never have to hitchhike again...

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Lox
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 12:55 PM

"I understand that the celibacy rule has been attracting a very high persentage of homosexuals to the priesthood and that assaults on young boys are most common."

Ah yes I see ...

Homosexuals would of course seek out a life of celibacy ... that makes sense ...

... and then, being homosexuals they would therefore need to find release by preying on small children ...

... because homosexuals are perverts and paedophiles are perverts therefore homosexuals are paedophiles ...

Thanks Ake for clarifying that.


(oops - sorry if you feel victimized by my "fascist liberalism" ... grmmph ...)

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 12:58 PM

Authoritarianism and enabling of bad behavior produces child abuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: billhudson
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 01:25 PM

Speaking as a x seminarian (5 years,OFM Caps) I would have to agree with some that it starts at the top. I think the bishops and their lawyers have known about all this for years and they have been moving these people around.
That being said there were many priest and brothers who were a great influence on me and were good men. At the time some were WW2 vets who saw a lot of combat and had been through hell. So you could not throw the bull around (we did try).
It as also where I started to play guitar. Many at that time did and it was fun jamming with other guys singing tunes. It was not what people would think.
But getting back to the subject I think it is way too late for the pope saying he is sorry. Those pedophile priests (if in fact they are) have destroyed lives of many people for years to come and they should be held responsible.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:01 PM

A life of celibacy makes no sense since it runs counter to human needs. Those who practice this doctrine are not living healthy lives. The priesthood is sometimes prescribed for those in a family that are homosexual. Their needs are thwarted institutionally and as a result, this could become behavior of abberation. The answer is simple. Allow heterosexual and homosexual priests to marry and have their sexual needs met.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 02:28 PM

Nobody has responded to the question I asked a couple of days ago which seems very germane to all this — (01 0ct 0206). Does anyone else know the Chapel in LA Cathedral [some Angelinos must read this site, surely?]. Is that Chapel still there? Well-known? Much visited? Was there any response from the community when it opened?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 03:31 PM

As the plot thickens:
http://thechronicleherald.ca/News

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Lox
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:34 PM

MtheGM,

I suspect that as with most of the good work doen by the church and in the churches name, your observation will go overlooked.

For every crime committed by a church representative, there are a thousand selfless acts.

They don't sell papers though.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:54 AM

"Copping out" again Lox?

PERCENTAGES.....PERCENTAGES!

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 10:18 AM

I suspect there is the church, the organization, and the church the faithful. There is a difference. One does and exist without the other, in more than financial ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Alice
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 10:41 AM

MtheGM, I did a bing.com search on "chapel for abused in Los Angeles Catholic" and the first that came up is this article in the Los Angeles Times.

Chapel Dedicated for Victims of Sex Abuse
click here May 26, 2003

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Alice
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 10:48 AM

Another article ads more info than the previous link:

"...But Grant told the Times that 'clearly this continues to be about the cardinal and not the victims. I think Cardinal Mahony knew that if victims were aware of this ahead of time, they'd be here telling parishioners that real change needs to happen -- and that the priests who abused them are not yet behind bars.'

THE SUNDAY AFTER THE DEDICATION of the chapel, protestors entered the cathedral with a large wooden cross, covered with pictures of clergy abuse victims, said the June 2 Los Angeles Times. With news cameras in train, the protestors placed the cross in the chapel dedicated to victims of sexual abuse and began fixing pictures of abuse victims to the bulletin boards provided by the archdiocese for that purpose. When these were filled, protestors began taping photographs to the chapel walls. Some of the photographs showed the priests who protestors said had abused them...."

scroll down this page to read the full article http://www.losangelesmission.com/ed/news/0703news.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Alice
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 10:51 AM

That news is from 2003, by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 05:54 PM

More on RC Bishop Raymond Lahey and his travel extensively to source countries for child pornography.


http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/cbc-article.aspx?cp-documentid=22151704

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 10:33 AM

Cardinal Mahony of Los Angeles gets a lot of flak from both sides. The extreme liberals accuse him of covering up sexual abuse by refusing to permit prosecutors to have full access to priest personnel records. The extreme conservatives accuse him of having a "homosexual agenda" (a codeword for anything that is not extremely conservative). They also complain that he does not speak loudly enough against abortion - which, in their minds, makes him pro-abortion.

The fact of the matter is that Mahony is a moderate, trying to serve everyone he's supposed to be serving. He's not really a dynamic personality, but he's a good man who tries to deal with things rationally. There's no way he can satisfy the people at the extremes. Instead of bowing to the angry extremists like many bishops do, Mahony largely ignores them.

I go to the annual Los Angeles Religious Education Congress that Mahony sponsors, and it's a wonderful event - the largest annual gathering of Catholics in the US, with 40,000 people attending. The Congress draws the best Catholic speakers in the country, and the liturgical celebrations are festivals of song and dance (even though Rome thinks dance is not part of US culture and shouldn't be part of liturgy).

I knew Mahony had dedicated a chapel to the victims of abuse, but I haven't heard any comments reacting to the gesture. It's true that no apology or financial settlement or legal action can make up for the terrible wrong that has been done, but I think that Mahony and many other bishops have done what they can. Others act like callous business executives and listen to their lawyers more than to the tenets of their faith.

Benedict has frequently spoken out against priest sexual abuse since shortly after he was elected Pope. John Paul II didn't. I don't think he was callous - he was simply blind. Having been brought up to believe the Church was the infallible opponent to fascism and communism, he just didn't seem to be able to accept the fact that some aspects of his Church are deeply flawed. Benedict seems to have a far more realistic view.

-Joe-

Subject: BS: Pope on pedophile priests and pumping hard
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 06:00 PM

eww

I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.
George Bush

Subject: RE: BS: Pope on pedophile priests
From: Stringsinger
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 12:55 PM

The Pope has outlived any usefulness he may have had. He is the supreme authoritarian in a world which requires compassion, not bullying. He reserves to himself the right of King to determine the fate of the world.

Pedophilia is an outgrowth of blind obedience to authority.

We see this on C Street with the rise of the Family Christian Mafia.

Fortunately, there are Catholics who question their religion's right to destructive edicts.
Not all Catholics apparently think the Pope is right.