Session Etiquette

Subject: Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Slickerbill
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 01:03 PM

Okay here's one for the seasoned session players. See if this has happened to you. And if it has, what the hell did you do about it?

From time to time some folks around here associated through work and a local festival get together to play some music. One guy is a friend, and really quite a good guy, but when it comes to these sessions, man. First he's telling you "how" to play. He wants to hear this and he wants to hear that. He has actually taken his fiddle bow and bopped my left hand in time with the music to get me to play it his way. But here's the killer; he'll get bored I guess and try to play slide on a mandolin...badly. Sounds like shite, like someone torturing a small Disney character.

What do you do with people like this??? I mean, he's a friend, and hurting peoples' feelings over music just seems kind of stupid. But I don't get this kind of thing. I tend to be very careful about how and what I play in a session. I listen for the big sound and try to go for something that collectively will sound great. But you get all kinds of players, don't you? So what do you do?

Any similar stories or suggestions? SB

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 01:08 PM

cut the mandoline strings, but while in a friendly fashion while you're doing it.

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: Pseudolus
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 01:28 PM

If he's a friend, I would talk to him one on one. No need to embarrass him in front of the group. Try to explain that some people look at music and sessions as a way to express themselves and that there's more than one way to play a tune. Hopefully he'll understand......

Frank

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Slickerbill
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 01:29 PM

Maybe if I got him one of those foamy thingies for keeping his beer cold....?

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: Mac Tattie
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 01:40 PM

..liked the "someone torturing a small Disney character" it realy took me there. cheers

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 01:49 PM

We used to have someone just like that. he does not come anymore and the session is all the better for it.

I like to think the whole thing is about making a positive contribution. If it is the opposite, and if you don't deal with him, sooner or later someone else will.......

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: Gary T
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 02:00 PM

Here are some comments that might be appropriate and helpful for when he's being "bossy." Must be delivered with good cheer.

"Come on now, I'm hear to play, not to get lessons."

"Perhaps we can go over that later--in the middle of a tune (or session) is not a good time."

"Here, I'll swap instruments with you so you can do it that way."

"I won't instruct you if you don't instruct me--I bet we'll both be happier that way."

Ideally, these would be follow-up reminders after a private chat. I would use a lighthearted, joking-but-slightly-scolding tone. Hurting his feelings won't do any good, but neither will having the sessions spoiled for you.

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 02:23 PM

If he really is a friend, get him alone and tell him clearly what you do NOT like. A real friendship will survive.

I've had friends give me negative feedback and I've done it to them. We're still friends. It is actually a very good thing to know about a relationship that it can survive such unpleasantness (or not, as the case may be).

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: InOBU
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 02:43 PM

Try Friendly persuasion... pour drink into him until he passes out... cheers Larry

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Owain
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 03:04 PM

Hi Slickerbill, All of the above suggestions are worthwhile. The best was simply saying "I come here to play, not to get a lesson." This fellow, probably doesn't think of himself as being rude. He's probably right,(musically speaking) in fact. I've a good friend I met because we share the same profession. Everytime we met he'd have 'something to say' about my approach to the task. This went on for years until he caught me in a bit of a mood. I unloaded a vitriolic verbal assault lasting about 45 seconds. He stood there and looked at me genuinely perplexed "I didn't know you felt that way," was his response. Our friendship has endured, but largely because I was finally honest with him. While I'm not suggesting my passive/aggressive resolution the gentleman in question needs to be told his actions are at least annoying if not rude. Also, suggest to him he put a project together according to his vision, take it to the pubs for money and leave those who simply want to enjoy playing music to do just that.

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 03:08 PM

Tell him to shove his fiddle bow up his ass and play Flight of the Bumble Bee on his uvula. Then laugh and say "I'm just yankin' yer chain!"

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 03:20 PM

Video him and peoples reactions and splice it with an expert playing or people being considerate to each other.
Show someone just a photo of themselves and usually they complain about how they look. Worth a try
Hold a mirror to him.

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 06:19 PM

The worst trick that our fellow had, to make himself feel important and to inhibit others, was to suggest very loudly to them, that they may be out of tune.

You could try getting different session members to make this suggestion to him at different points in the evening?

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Declan
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 05:09 AM

The trick here is to discuss this out of context away from the session. If this person is a friend and you meet them socially outside the session context, try striking up a conversation about how much you enjoy playing in sessions and what it is you enjoy. No need to direct it at his negative behaaviour - if the guy has any cop on (although this may be in doubt from the behaviour you've talked about) he'll probably realise that you're trying to tell him something without being antagonistic about it.

The alternative (i.e what I usually do in these situations, unfortunately) is to wait until he really annoys you some night and lash out. The results can be quite ugly. If it really getting to you, you need to say something, but the calm subtle approach is preferable. If this fails you'll probably need to take a more direct approach, but try to do it early in the session before he has got you really annoyed.

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 07:12 AM

At a couple of sessions I visit, there's the same guy who is well known for being strongly opinionated and vocal. He takes a great deal of pride in being forthright and as subtle as an air-raid.

A lot of what he says is well intentioned, and is meant to be positive criticism. But he's way too blunt, and comes across as rude. Once, he took me to task for using a "cheat sheet" when singing, at another for singing in a key that was less than ideal for my range.. I internally bristled at this, but because I knew it was well-intentioned, I was able to use what was positive and ignore the method of communication.

However, like a lot of people who pride themselves in being blunt, he also likes to tell you that he's just saying what he thinks and that he hoped that people would tell him to his face when his performance could be improved. One time when he made a remark to this effect, I said quietly : "Well, (name deleted), I'd only feel free to voice my opinion if I knew the other person well enough to be sure how they would receive it, or if they asked me for my views. Otherwise, I'd keep my mouth shut." I've never had any helpful criticism from that direction since.

Cheers

Steven

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 10:28 AM

I had exactly the same experience as Owain. Only I was the one who said, "I'm sorry. I didn't know it bothered you. I won't do it again." And I meant it. The friendship still thrives.

Be honest. Be clear. Don't be subtle. Don't be brutal. Don't do it in public.

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 11:03 AM

This sounds familiar. Treat it as a personality quirk and pay it no heed. I know a man like that and he's the same with driving when I give him a lift home. Any time he says turn left I turn right by instinct. He's got the message more or less.

Sooner or later your friend is going to try it on soemone with a short fuse, or who's had a bad day, and he'll be chucked half across the room.

In the meantime though, there's no need to quarrel. Just let him know you aren't taking any notice of his controllery.

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Slickerbill
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 12:44 PM

Some great suggestions folks; thanks. It's a bit ironic. I agree that quietly explaining to the guy that what he does is pissing me off is the way to go. And you want to be civil about it. But bringing it up apart from sessions is tough to do. My fear is that I am gonna let him have it at a session some day. Hopefully a good opportunity will present itself before then. Where do these people get the jam though? It's amazing to hear there are so many of them out there. I thought this guy was one of a kind. They're like frustrated band leaders or something. SB

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 02:02 PM

It does not have to be session members. On more than one occasion I have found that members of the public seem to think you are a band without a leader, and proceed to take charge.

The mildest form is constant requests for Drowsy Maggie, even when it has been played and they did not notice. To one lady who conducted and told individual players when it was time she considered they should start tunes.

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: Bert
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 06:16 PM

Stick your tongue out at him and grin and then carry on doing it YOUR way.

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: Hamish
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 07:48 AM

You could say that you stumbled on a good site about sessions at my site which he might find interesting - and you'd value his thoughts...?

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: Hamish
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 07:50 AM

...in fact he might like 4.8 which says "One my pet infuriations is a local player who is in fact very much better than almost everybody else in the session but who most of the time noodles away well-nigh inaudibly. The result of which is that anyone else with any taste will (a) not want to play over the top of him and (b) not be able to follow him either. The session disintegrates into mumbling incoherence until some accordiosaurus feels it's time to bellow out a mating call." and/or 4.5 "a session *is* practise. Learning to play an instrument on your own is one thing, learning to play with other people is something else again. People have to learn to listen to what others are doing while also playing themselves (and listening to that). It's difficult, at first; needs practise."

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 08:26 AM

I like Bert's suggestion best. The elegance of simplicity!
Kris

Subject: RE: Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Slickerbill
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 12:41 PM

Great stuff Hamish. Maybe I can slip a highlighted version in this guys mailbox, or leave it on his coffee table or something. Well done.

You know, come to mention it he does the non participant thing too; when I've been in electric sessions where he's working sound or something, he invariably is calling out tunes, one after the other. This must be some kind of personality type issue. SB