BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 06:06 AM

Keith
You have consistently included Ireland in your list of Israeli supporters, even though you have been given evidence to the contrary.
Alan Shatter, a Jewish member of the Irish Government who has just bene forced to resign, is the only Irish politician to have spoen in support of Israel
Jim Carroll
Ireland's real position on Israel
On 19 January 2010, Mahmoud al-Mabhouh a senior Hamas military commander was assassinated in Dubai by a team of eight suspected Mossad officers who used counterfeit European passports, including Irish passports.[10] The Irish government responded by expelling a staff member of the Israeli Embassy in Dublin.[11] Ireland subsequently delayed an EU-Israel agreement which would involve allowing Israel to access sensitive information on EU citizens, and demanded that Israel tighten its data protection laws.[12]

On 5 June 2010, an Irish humanitarian aid vessel MV Rachel Corrie heading for Gaza, was intercepted and seized by the Israeli Navy.[13] This caused political tension between Ireland and Israel.[14] [15]
On 25 January 2011, Ireland upgraded the Palestinian envoy in Ireland to that of a full embassy which resulted in the Irish Ambassador to Israel being summoned. Israel announced that it "regrets" the decision.[16]
On 4 November 2011, the Irish ship MV Saoirse carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza was intercepted by the Israeli Navy in international waters. The Navy boarded the ship, took those aboard in custody and towed it to Ashdod. In response, Irish Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs Eamon Gilmore stated that the Irish government do "not agree with [the Gaza blockade], (...) regard it as contrary to international humanitarian law in its impact on the civilian population of Gaza, and (...) have repeatedly urged Israel to end a policy which is unjust, counter-productive and amounts to collective punishment of 1.5 million Palestinians."[17]
On 16 November 2011, unnamed sources from the Israeli Foreign Ministry claimed that "Ireland (is the) most hostile country in Europe" and was "pushing all of Europe's countries to a radical and uncompromising approach". An unnamed official argued that "the Irish government is feeding its people with anti-Israel hatred" and that "what we are seeing here is clear anti-Semitism." An official from the Irish Foreign Affairs Department announced that "the Government is critical of Israeli policies in the occupied Palestinian territories. It is not hostile to Israel and it is clearly wrong to suggest as much," he said. "The notion that this Government is or would be trying to stoke up anti-Israeli feeling is untrue. We are not hostile to Israel. We are critical of policies, particularly in the occupied Palestinian territories. These are not the same things".[18] Israel's ambassador to Ireland was reported as distancing himself from claims of Irish anti-Semitism.[19]
In early 2012 the Irish Palestine Solidarity Campaign organised a "cultural boycott" of Israel, as a result of which Irish music group Dervish (band) cancelled a proposed tour of Israel, citing "an "avalanche of negativity" and "venom" directed towards them." [20] This online campaign was officially condemned by Irish Justice Minister Alan Shatter [21] and Irish Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore [22]
In 2013, Alan Shatter, minister of Justice, Equality and Defense said, while visiting Israel, that "Ireland is a friend of Israel. We have a government in Ireland that wants a deeper engagement. But we also have a government in Ireland that is committed to the peace process."[23]

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 06:13 AM

Jim: All Britain's relations with anyone are going to be to some extent 'political & business based' by their very nature, aren't they. Really can't see what point you think you've made with that copy/paste from Wiki about those silly attempts by the ill-disposed to arrest diplomats from a notionally diplomatically "friendly" foreign jurisdiction here on diplomatic missions. What the motivations of the judges perceiving possible prima facie grounds for prosecution may have been is much open to question, it seems to me.

So what was your point, precisely?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 07:19 AM

"Jim: All Britain's relations with anyone are going to be to some extent 'political & business based' by their very nature, aren't they"
Thank you for making my point for me Mile
Keith has listed these countries and claimed support for Israel's policies because of their silence on Israel' atrocities - this and his denials of those atrocities are the only defence he has put forward
Jim Carroll

Norway and Israel Relations
Norway understands this terrifying crisis subjected to Palestine, foreseeing even more imminent disaster, Norway has taken steps to reassure aid and dissemination of the Neo-Nazi Israeli regime, to the point of demanding a return of tax revenues. Two months ago Norway demanded Israel return the palestinian tax revenues generated by the Palestinian economy. According to James Petras (2006) in The Power of Israel in the United States:

On January 25, 2006 the Palestinian people voted overwhelmingly in favor of Hamas in the cleanest election to take place in any Arab Middle Eastern country. The Israeli government immediately refused to recognize the democratic outcome. It refused to turn over Palestinian tax revenues, deliberately blocked all trading outlets to drastically reduce what was already Palestinian subsistence living, and began an intense and prolonged series of violent assaults on Palestinian cities and villages, killing and maiming hundreds.
In response to this evident crisis, Norway proceeded to a press releases urging Israel to return those tax revenues:
"This money belongs to the Palestinians. Israel just administers these funds on behalf of the Palestinian Authority according to an agreement. Withholding these funds undermines President Abbas and other Palestinian political forces that are pursuing a peaceful solution," said Mr Støre.
We are seeing the persistence of Israel's "Final Solution", Ehud Olmert stated after Hamas's democratic election: "I want nobody to sleep at night in Gaza" (July 2, 2006), reinforced by Labor Party Minister Yitzak Rabin:
Israel will create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank to Jordan.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 07:33 AM

Musket,
Western governments who use resolutions such as this to rein in rogue states. In case you weren't aware, there are some EU restrictions on selling military and espionage equipment to Israel as we see it as a rogue state.

I was not aware of that.
Please supply details and or your source.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 07:41 AM

Jim my case has been that no single democratic state has ever accused Israel of "atrocities" or "war crimes" and none of your ranting challenges that FACT!

Of course they are critical of and speak out against US, and Israeli policies as I have acknowledged they do, but never an accusation of atrocity or war crimes which if true would eclipse any such disagreement.

No war crimes.
No atrocities.
Just lying propaganda for the consumption of gullible dupes.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 07:50 AM

Musket.
In case you weren't aware, there are some EU restrictions on selling military and espionage equipment (invisible ink?) to Israel as we see it as a rogue state.

There are no such EU restrictions on Israel which is an associated state of the European Union.
You made it up Musket.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 08:04 AM

Getting a bit lost in all the copy-pasted verbiage, Jim, to be honest. Still don't see how I have made any 'point' for you; or indeed what your 'point[s]' is/are: esp in re those wiki copy/pastes about UK judges issuing arrest warrants for supposed war crimes against visiting Israeli diplomats... I mean, what of it? What was that all about, in relation to the thread?

Thoroughly exercised & puzzled, I fear ···

Think I'll go & watch the tennis.*

Sorry.

~M~

*[BTW, Musk -- are you about? Last night's footie didn't turn out so 'cosy' after all, did it? -- wot with electric storms & 0-0 scoreline, & all!]

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 08:12 AM

Where is your democratic support for Israel - we are not discussing condemnation - as MIke just pointed out "All Britain's relations with anyone are going to be to some extent 'political & business based'"
FRANCE
aAs with China
That's it then - no support anywhere
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 08:30 AM

Support?
I said that your accusations of war crimes and atrocities are bollocks, as witness the complete absence of any condemnation by democratic governments.

No country gets blanket support and all get criticised over some policies, but atrocities and war crimes are never allowed to go unopposed.

No war crimes.
No atrocities.
Just lying propaganda for the consumption of gullible dupes.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 08:33 AM

Article 2 of the Association Agreement between EU and israel states:

Relations between the Parties, as well as all the provisions of the Agreement itself, shall be based on respect for human rights and democratic principles, which guides their internal and international policy and constitutes an essential element of this Agreement.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 09:26 AM

"Just lying propaganda for the consumption of gullible dupes."
All reports of Israeli atrocities have been reported by Human rights groups   such as Human Rights Watch, and Amnesty International.
They have been condemned by Jewish organistions such Jews for Justice and have been compared to fascism by Jews themselves as far back as Einstein, through to Noam Chomski and the ex-leader of Mossad.
Describing all these as "lying propaganda" and "gullible" and making the outrageous suggestion that "Governments know better" is confirmation of your own fascism - it is a classical definition of fascism - the tying of the people's will to that of the state (Italy's bundle of sticks).
Mike has declined to comment on Jewish accusations of Einstein and co's comments on Israel, or on any similar Jewish statement - gullible propaganda - Antisemitism - what?
I'd go and watch the tennis with Tinkerbell if I were you - you've shown us what you're made of and added another paragraph to your CV.
Israel it a terrorist state that would have long ago been indicted for its crimes if it hadn't had the protection of US vetoes.
More Israeli "gullible Antisemites"

The massacre was a wild suspension of law and morality, and the interesting normative questions concern the scope and degree of responsibility. The killers entered the camps at the behest of Israeli officials who were certainly aware of Phalangist hostility towards
Palestinians -- Phalangists had previously massacred Palestinians when the Tel Az-Zater refugee camp was taken in 1976, and Bashir Gemayel had repeatedly described the Palestinians as "a people too many" in Lebanon. An Israeli commission of inquiry ridiculed the claim that a massacre was not forseen by Israeli officials, especially after Gemayel's assassination, and concluded that "indirect responsibility" rested on the shoulders of Sharon, Eitan, IDF commanders, Foreign Minister Yitsak Shamir, and Prime
Minister Begin. Presumably, the qualifier "indirect" was based on the assumption that Israeli soldiers did not actually do the killing. Yet, allowing the revenge-seeking Lebanese Forces into the camps under the fiction that they would clean out "terrorists" suggests complicity if not outright instigation. In other circumstances, those responsible -
- directly or indirectly -- would have been convicted of war crimes

Have a good day
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 09:37 AM

In 2013 alone, The UN handed out 25 resolutions overall, 21 against the rogue state of Israel.

When selling certain machined equipment, we had to prove as part of our export licence that they could not be used for Israeli atomic weapon development, and that if used by the military (who purchase construction plant as the Arabs facing bulldozers and wreckers well know) that they were for defence and never offence.

I had to attest that our agent in Tel Aviv would uphold this. (He was irreligious and scornful of their using fairy stories to oppress people anyway)

Don't say I make things up. I actually live in the world you fantasise over. Stick to your toy soldiers.

Michael. Two things;

I use posh words purely in order to impress you, nobody else. That I learned them whilst knowing my place meant I started using them whilst pushing a ferret down my trousers prior to taking a whippet for a walk.

They are missing the ox. Sturridge looks promising but needs to find the net having run into space, trapped the ball, dodged defenders and done the hard work.... Rooney looked fit but didn't influence play and Honduras were too cynical for our players to try and play. Not much point in getting cropped in a so called friendly.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 09:47 AM

Musket, you said this.

"In case you weren't aware, there are some EU restrictions on selling military and espionage equipment (invisible ink?) to Israel as we see it as a rogue state. "

It is completely untrue.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 10:03 AM

Jim, here is the report of the Israeli enquiry you mention.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/kahan.html

It does not " ridicule the claim that a massacre was not forseen by Israeli officials," it just says that it should have been foreseen.

No democratic government have accused Israel of atrocity or any war crime.
That is why you can not produced any.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 10:11 AM

I don't know about invisible ink, you put that, presumably to make you look foolish.

The EU restrictions apply. They apply to all countries under UN and a concordat of EU countries is in place over it. It covers offensive rather than defensive arms and anything used for nuclear weapons. The USA are the main breakers of the myriad resolutions covering it.

You only issue UN resolutions when you agree them. Rogue state.

Did they teach you how to defend Israel against wogs in the "paras"? {snigger}

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 11:13 AM

Musket, you said this.

"In case you weren't aware, there are some EU restrictions on selling military and espionage equipment (false moustaches?) to Israel as we see it as a rogue state. "

It is completely untrue.
There are no such EU restrictions.
You made it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 11:19 AM

There are no UN sanctions either.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 12:02 PM

"Mike has declined to comment on Jewish accusations of Einstein and co's comments on Israel, or on any similar Jewish statement - gullible propaganda - Antisemitism - what?"
,..,
No I haven't --

"If you go on saying "Nazi" then you are, in their terms, 'antisemitic'. So are all & any of these celebs & notables you adduce if they do so, Jewish or not." 0437 am
.,,.

If you make these accusations and then don't trouble to read the replies to them, as here, you only make a bigger, & more contemptible, fool of yourself, don't you, Jim?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 12:32 PM

An appeal from Fairyland to one Mr J Carroll, who needs urgently to get his head together regarding the several functions of two of our dramatically distinguished magical denizens.

Please would he note that ~~~

The Fairy Godmother was the supernatural enabler who organised means for her Goddaughter Cinderella to go to the Ball to meet Prince Charming, despite the efforts of her two malevolent Ugly Stepsisters [whose names, according to Fairyland folklore, were Jemima & Carol] to prevent her attendance at this enviable function.

I, on the other hand, am the glittering & bellringing assistant to one Mr Peter Pan, who occurs in quite another dramatic entertainment.

It would be much appreciated if Mr Carroll would stop confusing us. Our roles, personalities, and comparative status, are vastly different.

Thank you in advance, Mr Carroll, for your kind consideration of my request.

Yours spellbindingly

☤~Tinkerbell~☤

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 01:37 PM

"No democratic government have accused Israel of atrocity or any war crime."
You have made your point Keith - that as far as you are concerned the silence of interested politicians takes precedence over independent reports, human rights groups, protesting Jews.... anybody and everybody who accuses Israel of the atrocities that have been fully documented and in many cases, photographed.
This not only confirms your own fascism, but it is (I believe) an accurate of Israel's fascism - you can't say it clearer than that
That'll do nicely thank you.
Pontificating waffle is no substitute for honest responses Mike
I take it you're all the way with Keith's fascism - your somewhat spineless evasion indicate that to be the case.
Please don't ever call me a bad loser again.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 02:48 PM

"There are no UN sanctions"

Oh well, that's alright then.

Sorry, I didn't understand the rules. You didn't say we can't include reality.

How are the toy soldiers?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 04:09 PM

There are no UN sanctions against Israel.
Perhaps you are confusing it with Iran?

You also said this

"In case you weren't aware, there are some EU restrictions on selling military and espionage equipment (invisible ink?) to Israel as we see it as a rogue state. "

It is completely untrue.
Made up.
False.
Honest mistake or something else Musket?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 04:15 PM

Jim the governments of France, Ireland, Sweden, Canada, Australia, Finland, etc. are not so "fascist" and not so "interested" that they will rip into Israel over certain policies but ignore war crimes, atrocities and massacres!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 04:21 PM

Musket, here are all UK and EU restricted countries.
You will not find Israel mentioned.
Where was your firm based?
Yemen?

https://www.gov.uk/current-arms-embargoes-and-other-restrictions

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 04:44 PM

"There are no UN sanctions against Israel"

"Here is a list of arms embargoes."

Oh dear, where do I start...

Whether it be the list of UN resolutions (as opposed to sanctions as Keith tried changing my words to) or the difference between UK government restrictions and international restrictions we abide by.

Good job I'm not a thick cunt eh?

stop trying to make me look a liar Keith, I'm injecting a bit of reality into this la la land debate. Sorry but I have no time for people who spoil what could be decent debate by your pathetic games. I brush fools off before breakfast and judging by recent threads, so do many others here.

Give up Keith. Best to look daft as a brush than the weird bloke in the tap room with a jacket bought from Army Surplus and ranting about how a military view is interesting..

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 04:54 PM

UN, Israel & Anti-Semitism

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 05:01 PM

Gosh, a day in me garden and I find that all this is still going on.

"If you go on saying "Nazi" then you are, in their terms, 'antisemitic'.

Progress at last. Michael has stopped calling Jim an antisemite in unqualified terms, and now only says he's an antisemite "in their terms". So a nice bit of subtle distance put. Don't think I haven't noticed, Michael. Even more backtracking would be welcome, however. If your hubris allows, of course. I love it when I see a man wriggle who really knows he's wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 05:23 PM

Well, Boo, instead of another of your Pro-Israeli U.N.-Bashing site, let's see what Human Rights Watch has to say


Here


And Here


And Here


And Here

for example....

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 05:28 PM

Musket, that UK government site is about "arms embargoes and other restrictions."

UK is bound by both UN and EU restrictions.
THERE ARE NONE AGAINST ISRAEL.

stop trying to make me look a liar Keith,

I just supply the facts Musket.
The lies come from you.

"In case you weren't aware, there are some EU restrictions on selling military and espionage equipment to Israel as we see it as a rogue state. "

That is completely untrue.
Made up.
False.
Honest mistake or something else Musket?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 05:38 PM

Human Rights Watch investigator suspended over Nazi memorabilia

A senior military analyst with the international watchdog, Human Rights Watch, has been suspended by the organisation following controversy surrounding his collection of Nazi wartime medals and memorabilia.

Marc Garlasco, a former intelligence officer for the Pentagon, has in recent days become the subject of pro-Israeli bloggers who have pointed out that he is an avid collector of Nazi memorabilia from the second world war. The bloggers have questioned whether this is an appropriate hobby for someone who has led Human Rights Watch's investigations into the two recent Israeli wars in Lebanon and Gaza.

The greatest controversy has focused on postings he has made to military memorabilia online bulletin boards under the moniker Flak 88*. In one he was shown wearing a jumper bearing an Iron Cross. In another he wrote: "That is so cool! The leather SS jacket makes my blood go cold it is so COOL!"

Note: 88 = Nazi skinhead code for Heil Hitler. H being the 8th letter of the alphabet, therefore HH=88.


The Guardian

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 05:46 PM

The international non-governmental organization Human Rights Watch (HRW) has been criticized by national governments, other NGOs, the media, and its founder and former Chairman Robert L. Bernstein. Among other things, critics have accused the organization of being influenced by United States government policy, particularly in relation to reporting on Latin America; ignoring anti-Semitism in Europe or being itself an anti-Semitic organization; biases in relation to the Arab–Israeli conflict; and unfair and biased reporting of human rights issues in Eritrea and Ethiopia. Accusations in relation to the Arab–Israeli conflict include claims that HRW is biased against Israel and that this bias in influenced by requesting or accepting donations from Saudi Arabian citizens.

Criticism of Human Rights Watch

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 05:52 PM

Right, Boo- Blog-O-Paedia- MUST be true, then. Even if they are unproven accusations, your usual fare. Look up the Blog-O-Paedia entry for UN Watch, why dontcha?

And please, not the Nazi horseshit yet again. Who gives a crap WHAT the man collects? Or are you saying that the collection makes him a de facto Nazi? That's even beyond your usual level of horseshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 06:52 PM

Besides, one person is supposed to poison the entire organization? They canned him. What did you want them to do- keep him on and promote him?

Same old paste-and-copy one-liner horseshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 07:24 PM

"For example, the EU recently found that the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah had squandered close to €2bn of aid from European taxpayers; aid intended to build Palestinian institutions, enfranchise the people, elevate their quality of life. Meanwhile, the Palestinian Al-Quds University is reported to have staged a Nuremberg-style rally by members of the Islamic Jihad terrorist organisation, replete with black uniforms and Nazi salutes. Yet such issues concerning incitement and mismanagement, which strike at the heart of why the Palestinians' national goals remain unfulfilled, are routinely overlooked by the UN.

The UN's one-sidedness has also damaged the larger cause of human rights. So far this year, the UN general assembly has passed 21 resolutions condemning Israel. Four resolutions have been passed against all countries in the rest of the world combined. In the meantime, one can only guess at what truly motivates self-declared supporters of the Palestinian cause who remain relatively silent about the Egyptian blockade of Gaza, or the suffering of Palestinians embroiled in the Syrian conflict."

The Guardian

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 07:28 PM

Classic quote from Israel's legendary statesman Abba Eban from the above linked article:

"If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 07:31 PM

Again from the above linked article:

the candid reaction of a Spanish-speaking UN interpreter, oblivious to the fact that her microphone remained on as she addressed her colleague:

    "I mean, I think when you have five statements, not five, like a total of ten resolutions on Israel and Palestine, there's gotta be something, c'est un peu trop, non? [It's a bit much, no?] I mean I know… There's other really bad shit happening [around the world], but no one says anything about the other stuff."


I can provide numerous more examples.....need I go on?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 07:44 PM

Bobad the intellectual minnow continues to clasp his/her hands over his/her ears whilst showering us with useless copy-'n'-pastes and inane quotes from mad sources. One day she/he'll actually give us her/his own opinion in words of more than one syllable in several coherent sentences. Jeez, don't I have such faith in him/her.

the two recent Israeli wars in Lebanon and Gaza.

Touching, isn't it, how the Islamophobic right love to characterise these two incidents as "wars", as if they were somehow conducted on equal terms by factions with equal resources. Not "invasions", then. Revisionism is alive and well.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 09:08 PM

Another Op-Ed piece in the Guardian, Boo, by Alexander Ryvchin, public affairs officer at the Executive Council of Australian Jewry?

Ya got any actual facts you'd like to share, or just more editorials?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 09:22 PM

So Greg, is the quote from Aba Eban an opinion? Is the quote from the UN translator an opinion? Is the statement that EU recently found that the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah had squandered close to €2bn of aid from European taxpayers an opinion? Is the Nuremberg-style rally at the Palestinian Al-Quds University an opinion? Or is your problem that the author of the piece is a Jew?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jun 14 - 01:24 AM

"now only says he's an antisemite "in their terms". So a nice bit of subtle distance put. Don't think I haven't noticed, Michael".
.,,.

What a piddlingly pathetically desperate non-point even from Mr Buttinski-Shaw. Better go back in his garden and play with that big cuddly teddy of his...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jun 14 - 03:57 AM

We have Keith's message loud and clear - if if the politicians who took us into Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam, who oversaw atrocities in Abu Graib and are still induling in them in Guantanamo, who sold weapons and chemicals to Qaddafi and Assad, and are still selling them to terrorist states throughout the world..... if all these 'democratic states' say Israel is OK, then she must be OK.
None of them have, of course - they've just stayed silent and ignored the Human Rights organisations - the real guardians of our safety and consciences - that's diplomacy (and business) for you.
None of this alters the documented and photographic evidence that Israel has become little different than the former persecutors of the Jewish people.
These apologist morons are the real Antisemites; those who excuse the atrocities and identify them as being "Jewish".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jun 14 - 04:18 AM

if all these 'democratic states' say Israel is OK, then she must be OK.

They criticise Israel all the time, but not for things they know never happened.

Bobad has shown that Human Rights Watch is biased against Israel.
No democratic government has accused Israel of war crimes , massacres or atrocities.
Try not to be so naively gullible Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 09 Jun 14 - 07:35 AM

Governments criticise Human Rights Watch.. Well fuck me with a bent banana.

I never knew they had anything to be ashamed of......

If an NGO has something wrong, then I'm sure a government can point it out and it is incumbent on the credibility of the NGO to rectify it.

You don't think, however, that the "bias" is merely hitting the target? After all, there are more UN resolutions to force Israel to behave than any other country. 21 out of the whole 25 resolutions in 2013 alone, never mind the many still outstanding.
This is UN by the way, not HRW or Amnesty International or any other humanitarian NGO concerned about the behaviour of a rogue state. This is me, Keith, Steve, Poo Bad and everybody else on Mudcat calling them a rogue state through our elected politicians and those charged by them to represent our views at The UN.

Calling something made up isn't very clever Keith. In fact, as actions go, it has a density about it that refers to clitoral regions.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jun 14 - 08:21 AM

"Bobad has shown that Human Rights Watch is biased against Israel."
Bobad consitently drags up cunt-'n-pastes from extremist racist and Zionist sites, and you go along with them.
Nobody has ever shown Human Rights watch is biased against Israel or anybody, just that the extremists have accused it as being so - in your bok and that of your little band of brothers, everybody who criticised Israel is biased.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jun 14 - 09:49 AM

Did really write "c***"? - apologies to all - multi-tasking again
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 14 - 10:38 AM

Or is your problem that the author of the piece is a Jew?

Same old anti-Semitic horseshit AGAIN, Boo? You need a new script writer.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jun 14 - 11:33 AM

Rocket Attacks in IsraelRocket Attacks in Israel
My country is under attack. Do you care?

by Arsen Ostrovsky   
      
I'm angry.
You see, as most Americans were waking up this morning, and those in Europe and elsewhere around the world were going about their daily routines, here in Israel – over one million people were running for cover from a hail of rockets being rained down by Palestinian terrorists in Gaza. In the space of 24 hours, since Tuesday evening, 80 rockets have been fired on southern Israel. That's more than three rockets per hour. By the time I finish this article, odds are that count will have risen to 85 rockets.
Just to put things in context: one million Israelis is roughly 13 per cent of the population. Thirteen per cent of the U.S. population equates to about 40 million people.
A dozen Israelis have already been injured, with several of them seriously. The only reason more have not been hurt is because Israel has invested millions of dollars in bomb shelters and the Iron Dome defense system, while Hamas has invested millions of dollars in foreign aid in more rockets.
But here is why I'm angry.
I'm angry that in 2012, over 600 rockets have already been fired from Gaza with no end in sight. I'm angry that the world only notices when Israel undertakes its (sovereign) right to defend its citizens. Can you imagine if even one rocket was fired on Washington, London, Paris or Moscow? No nation on earth can, or should, tolerate such attacks on its people.
I'm angry that while the United Nations never hesitates to call a 'special emergency session' on the 'Question of Palestine' or pass the umpteenth resolution blindly condemning Israel, that I am still waiting for a session on the 'Question of Israel' and Palestinian terror. In fact, 24 hours after the rocket attacks started, I am still waiting for even one syllable of condemnation from the UN Security Council, the UN General Assembly or Navi Pillay, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights.
I'm angry that Ban Ki-Moon, the UN Secretary-General, could not find a moment to condemn the Palestinian rockets, but did find time to laugh and dance with South Korean rapper Psy from the popular dance craze Gangnam Style.
I'm angry that while the EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton slammed Israel last week over the building of several hundred apartments (in an area that will arguably remain part of Israel anyway), that I am still waiting for her to slam the Palestinians for firing 80 rockets in one day.
I'm angry that there are those who continue to call for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) against the Jewish State, but are silent in the face of Palestinian terror.
I'm angry that ships and flotillas continue to set sail for Gaza to show 'solidarity' with the Palestinians, but where is their solidarity with the people of southern Israel?
I'm angry that while human rights organizations like Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, Oxfam and others do not waste a single opportunity to condemn Israel for human rights violations against the Palestinians, the human rights of Israelis are seemingly not important enough for them. Is Jewish blood really that cheap?
I'm angry that mainstream newspapers like the New York Times, lead their stories about the rocket attacks with such headlines as "Four Palestinian Militants Killed in Israeli Airstrikes," and not "Palestinian Terrorists Rain Down Over 80 Rockets against one million Israelis."
I'm angry that so many people are blind to the fact that Iran, which has called for Israel to be wiped off the map and now seeks to obtain nuclear weapons, is the primary funder and supplier of arms to Hamas. I'm angry at the fact that all civilians in southern Israel today were instructed not to send their kids to school and stay in bomb shelters. What sort of inhumane way is that for children to live?
I'm angry when people continue to say that 'settlements' are the main impediment to peace, and not Hamas, a terrorist group which does not recognize Israel's right to exist and seeks its destruction. I'm angry when I see pictures like this, of a home in southern Israel hit by a rocket from Gaza today, yet have the audacity to say "ah, but they're just like toys; what damage can they do?"
I'm angry that there is someone out there who does not know me and has never met me, yet still wants to kill me – for no other reason than being Israeli.
I'm angry when I hear residents in southern Israel say "we just lie on top of our children and try to protect them with our bodies" or that "we're living on borrowed time" – yet the world seems oblivious to their desperate cries for help.
No, I am not angry. I am outraged.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 14 - 11:54 AM

Well,Bruce, I'll see your Arsen Ostrovsky of the Hudson Institute and a EYEontheUN.org ( who seems able to find anti-Senitism everywhere he looks) and raise you one


Hudson Institute and 'Eye on the UN' join the ranks of gutter journalists

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jun 14 - 11:55 AM

"The United Nations in March called for the field office to monitor human rights in North Korea following the release of a 372-page U.N. Commission of Inquiry report that detailed wide-ranging abuses, including systematic torture, starvation and killings comparable to Nazi-era atrocities."

And not ONE UN resolution calling for N. Korea to cease, nor one word of protest from the certified ( BY EU STANDARDS) Anti-Semites here. Seems like they can only bring up Israel, and have selective blindness on all other countries. THAT is ANTI-SEMITISM by definition.





"***But singling Israel out for selective condemnation and opprobrium – let alone denying its right to exist or seeking its destruction – is discriminatory and hateful, and not saying so is dishonest.****"

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jun 14 - 12:00 PM

GregF,

The rest of the article (Not just YOUR quote from the person being accused):

"Staff and some head teachers variously described feeling 'intimidated', 'undermined' or 'bullied' by governors, and sometimes by senior staff, into making changes they did not support," Wilshaw said.

Of the schools inspected by OFSTED, five were classed as failing and placed under special measures, 12 were told they needed to make improvements and three were praised. Park View Educational trust, which runs three of the criticized schools, rejected the inspectors' verdict. Vice chairman David Hughes said the inspectors "came to our schools looking for extremism, looking for segregation, looking for proof that our children have religion forced upon them as part of an Islamic plot."

"The OFSTED reports find absolutely no evidence of this because this is categorically not what is happening at our schools," he said.




So YOUR post is of no value to the discussion, as you have demonstrated may times in the past.




You do know that your treatment of guinea pigs and other small animals would get you executed under Sharia Law, don't you, GregF?