BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 04:19 AM

Hospitals have been hit because Hamas sites positions in and near them.
No hospital has been reduced to rubble.

Civilian deaths harm Israel and help Hamas.
Consider the implications of that stark fact.

Israel, in defiance of all military logic, gave prior warning of exactly where and when it was going to act.
Civilians were given safe routes to evacuate by, and Israel negotiated refuges for them with UN.

Hamas told them not to go until too late.
Until many had been killed.
It harms Israel and helps Hamas to have civilians killed, especially children.
Consider the implication.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 04:55 AM

"a different 'Gentle Jesus' who was said to have 'walked among the poor', and 'blessed the meek' and 'the peacemakers'.
His 'Christianity' puts an entirely new slant on the phrase, 'suffer the children'"
,..,

The one who came to bring, not peace, but a sword, I daresay.

It is a piece of the grossest ignorance to imagine that "suffer the little children to come unto me" has anything to do with undergoing unpleasant experience: "suffer" in this sense and context just means "allow".

What was that most conservative & "reactionary" of playwrights John Osborne doing here, I wonder? Not the sort that Mr Carroll would usually appeal to for political or emotional support, I should have thought.

I suppose we'll get his usual plea that he got carried away emotionally by the force of his rhetoric, or whatever the usual formulation.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 06:15 AM

"Hospitals have been hit because Hamas sites positions in and near them."
Indiscriminate bombing tends to have this effect.
"No hospital has been reduced to rubble."
Three hospitals destroyed suggests that they could well have been
You have evidence for your claim - the Israelis told you none have,no doubt!
"Civilian deaths harm Israel and help Hamas."
They do neither, you stupid little propaganda spouter - Israel doesn't give a fuck and Hamas loses support of the people.
"All often minutes in the case of the area where the attacked hospital report came from.
"John Osborne "
A pun on 'angry old man' Wesker was the only one I had any real time for - acted in Chicken Soup and Barley once and have just re-seen 'Jerusalem'
It will be interesting to see if the reported use of flechette shells by Israel, anti-personnel missiles which spray thousands of tiny darts down on all below, elicit any comment in the form of justification, or are totally ignored – don't rush – the betting shop's open all day.
FLECHETTE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 06:38 AM

"All often minutes"
Should read "all of ten minutes" before 'Terrytoon the Typo Scorer' wakes from his slumber with his usual cries of triumph.   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 06:46 AM

Jim, if one hospital had been reduced to rubble there would be hundreds of casualties and every news agency would make it their lead story.
It has not happened once, never mind three times.
You are losing touch with any sane reality.

"Civilian deaths harm Israel and help Hamas."
They do neither, you stupid little propaganda spouter - Israel doesn't give a fuck and Hamas loses support of the people.

If Israel could destroy the missiles and tunnels without hurting anyone, they would not be under massive US and international pressure to hold back and let Hamas get on with it.

If they are forced to stop, Hamas will have won.
Civilian deaths hurt Israel, and they sacrifice their own soldiers by giving warnings to evacuate.
Civilian deaths help Hamas, and they prevent the civilians from escaping.

"Indiscriminate bombing" in densely populated cities would cause tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths.
It is not happening.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 06:58 AM

Al Wafa Hospital has been partly destroyed, with few casualties because the patients were moved out.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 07:04 AM

Amnesty today.
"When the al-Wafa rehabilitative hospital in Shuja'iyyeh came under fire for a second time on 17 July, staff were forced to evacuate all the patients, reportedly under fire, and then the hospital was destroyed. "

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 07:11 AM

Hamas deliberately puts its citizens in harms way in order to score propaganda points.

Israel sets up a field hospital to treat those injured civilians.

They even saved the life of a Hamas terrorist....because they are human and humane.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 08:18 AM

First it was rubbish that hospitals are being destroyed,
Then it moved on to hospitals are being destroyed after the patients have been ten minutes to clear the buildings - an that's apparently acceptable,
Now we're back to
"Hamas deliberately puts its citizens in harms way in order to score propaganda points. "one hospital had been reduced to rubble there would be hundreds of casualties and every news agency would make it their lead story."
Gaza in being shelled and bombarded indiscrimin
ately - yesterday was the worst.
Palestinian casualties numbered 62 dead, and 400 wounded, among te dfead were 17 children, 14 women and 4 elderly.
The area has been declared a 'humanitarian crisis', with 80,000 people in 61 shelters.
Ad you piss about with "it couldn't have happened because it hasn't been reported" and such shit - what kind of a 'Christian' are you that minimises such inhuman slaughter, (and what kind of appeasing moron defends you with word-games about sayings like "suffer the children").
No comment on 'flechette' weapons yet, from any of you - now there is a surprise   
Probably allowed by some war convention or other, consequences be damned - except it isn't - not used in this way.
This sort of thin certainly brings them scurrying out of the woodwork
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 08:26 AM

"Hamas deliberately puts its citizens in harms way in order to score propaganda points"
No it does not - it fights from among the people under attack
What the **** do you expect them to do Booboo set up in the desert, so the Israeli thugs can drop a bomb on them, then get on with its slaughter of civilians?
Feckin eejit - you really are a 'bear of very little brain'.
Both Israel and Hamas have been accused in the past of using 'human shield' - there has never been a question of this happening here, other than in accusations by the Israeli State terrorists and their supporters to justify this bloody carnage.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 08:30 AM

Israel has not only the right but the obligation to protect its civilians from remorseless rocket attacks. Hamas, which took power in Gaza seven years ago, has been the instrument of that terror. The deaths of Palestinians, many of them children, are the direct and predictable outcome of Hamas's tactics and its use of civilians as, in effect, human shields. Instead of providing good governance and economic development, anticipating statehood, Hamas practises theocratic thuggery. Palestinians are paying an unconscionable price.

The Sunday Times

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 08:44 AM

There is no indiscriminate bombing from The Israeli side.
That would be a war crime.
It is what Hamas does.

The Al Wafa Hospital is in Shajayea.
That is now a battlefield because that is where Hamas is.
Of course it had to be evacuated.
It should have been done days before when the advance warnings began.

Those warnings should have prevented any single civilian casualty.
That was what Israel wanted, but not what Hamas wanted.

Because of those warnings, Hamas was ready and waiting for IDF in well prepared ambush positions.
That is why IDF are suffering an unprecedented rate of casualties.
A sacrifice to try and save Palestinians.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 08:48 AM

Jim, your flechette link did not work.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 08:58 AM

Any chance of shutting up in the name of decency yet?

The international community has told Israel to stop their terrorist actions.

By the way Keith. Saying that bombing a hospital is ok because Hamas had soldiers nearby is beneath even your low level of morality. Wannabe soldiers seem to he about the most repugnant observers of conflict as it is. You really are showing a side I used to laugh at but the laughter is getting rather hollow now.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 09:23 AM

As ever Musket, you attack me for things I never have and never would say.

It is a war crime for fighters to operate close to such structures without first evacuating them.
It is not illegal to engage such war criminals even if civilian casualties are likely.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 09:25 AM

Hamas's use of civilians and civilian buildings in Gaza as a shield is well known. Media reports tell of rockets being launched from residential buildings and schoolyards, munitions stored in houses, mosques and hospitals, Hamas leaders using civilian homes as command posts, and civilians being encouraged to go up on their roofs as human shields. These reports unfortunately rarely, if ever, mention that such conduct violates the law and, even more important, puts civilians at ever greater risk of death and injury.

Using human shields is not a romanticized effort at neighborhood defense — it is a war crime. Using hospitals as munitions depots or sites for rocket launchers endangers every civilian who needs medical treatment, because once the hospital is used for military purposes, it loses its protection from attack. Using houses for all manner of military activity amounts to using the civilian population as a shield and risks the life of every civilian in the neighborhood. This conduct demonstrates that Hamas not only views every civilian and every city in Israel as a target — which is wholly illegal — but that it also views every civilian and every neighborhood in Gaza as an expendable pawn in a propaganda war, a tragic and equally illegal approach."


Laurie R.Blank is clinical professor of law and director of the International Humanitarian Law Clinic at the Emory University School of Law.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 09:29 AM

"Jim, your flechette link did not work."
Look for another one you moron
"There is no indiscriminate bombing from The Israeli side."
Then Israel is deliberately bombing homes, schools, hospitals and health centres - (you have the figures for the latter three) - which is a war crime.
You have the civilian casualty figures (Israel's "unprecedented" dead amounted to 13 yesterday and 1 earlier, devastating, compared to the handful of Palestinian men women and children slaughtered to date)
You are an appeaser of war crime and terrorism.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 09:36 AM

Not enough dead Israelis for Jim….



No admittance that it is HAMAS that has been responsible UNDER THE LAW for those Palestinian civilian casualties- Not to meantion the other was crimes that have been stating they were doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 09:45 AM

The reason that there were THAT many Israeli casualties is that Israel has ANNOUNCED were they were going to attack, IN AN EFFORT TO REDUCE PALESTINIAN CIVILIAN CASUALTIES. Had they attacked unannounced, the likelihood is that Hamas would not have been able to set up traps head of time, and few Israelis would have been killed- but the PALESTINIAN civilian death toll would have been MUCH higher.

By the way, there were more civilians killed in Syria yesterday that in the last week in Gaza- but you keep strangely quiet about ANY civilian casualties that you cannot (FALSELY) blame on Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:01 AM

"Then Israel is deliberately bombing homes, schools, hospitals and health centres - (you have the figures for the latter three) - which is a war crime."


No.

Not a war crime, as has been explained a sufficient number of times that you are proven to be deliberately lying.


ANY MILITARY INSTALLATION IS A LEGAL TARGET.

HAMAS HAS SITED MILITARY INSTALLATIONS IN HOMES< SCHOOLS< AND HOSPITALS >>>WHICH IS A WAR CRIME YOU KEEP SILENT ABOUT<<<

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:07 AM

Jim,

YOU posted: " Assad couldn't begin to compete."


So over 150,000 dead Syrians, mostly civilians is OK by you, while 400 Palestinians is far worse- because YOU blame Israel????



And you complain because not enough Israelis have been killed when they have announced their targets and locations in order to reduce Palestinian civilian casualties? NO other nation has gone so far in trying to reduce civilian casualties- and given the world reaction, I doubt if any will in the future.

That will be the fault of you and those you support, that blame Israel for the human shield set up by Hamas.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:27 AM

Oh dear, another bout of serial postarrhoea.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:30 AM

"Not enough dead Israelis for Jim"
No-one should be dead Bruce - you people are the only ones who have dismissed killing here
Hamas is not responsible for the casualties any more than any resistance to terrorism is responsible, from Israeli freedom fighters, to wartime resistance to the Nazis, is responsible.
Hamas is guilty of resisting Israeli terrorism - go and count their victims
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:38 AM

"Assad couldn't begin to compete"
I pointed out that Assad couldn't begin to compete with the decades of preparation Israel have put into their moment of triumph - quite capable of comparing big numbers, thank you.
There is no evidence as to where Hamas has sited its forces - certainly not in hospitals, as the doctor quoted pointed out.
Israel is either guilty of indiscriminate bombing or is targeting hospitals and schools where there is no evidence of resistance fighters - take your pick
"And you complain because not enough Israelis have been killed"
I do not complain of any such thing, I always know when you have run out of ideas by when you resort to openly lying - keep it up Beardie - yet another holocaust denier creeps out of the woodwork.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:48 AM

Then Israel is deliberately bombing homes, schools, hospitals and health centres - (you have the figures for the latter three) - which is a war crime.

It would be if it was indiscriminate, but it is not.

Re flechettes.
Most weapons are intended to kill and maim by driving bits of metal at high velocity into and through people.
That is legal and includes flechettes.
Any such weapon can be used illegally.

All Hamas sites are placed among civilians.
That does not mean that Israel is forbidden to defend itself from their illegal and indiscriminate attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:51 AM

is targeting hospitals and schools where there is no evidence of resistance fighters

They say they do have evidence, and their int. is considered world class.
We all now have evidence that they use schools Jim.
Are you OK with that?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:54 AM

We all also now have direct evidence that they launch missiles from sites adjacent to hospitals.
We have seen it actually happen during interviews!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 11:30 AM

"They say they do have evidence, and their int. is considered world class."
So is their propaganda machinery.
Course they say that, just as the butchers of Lidice had evidence that the townspeople were sheltering the killers of Heydrich - oldest trick in the world
Massacre on boys, it becomes your "Christianity"
"All Hamas sites are placed among civilians."
So all civilians are legitimate targets - according to you mob (if it were true)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 11:49 AM

May be the only viable solution that can save lives - if not, Hamas will be obliterated...at a very high human cost.

Mofaz's Gaza 'demilitarization for dollars' plan gains traction
By GIL HOFFMAN
07/21/2014 17:06

Netanyahu, Peres endorse idea that calls for the international community to oversee the demilitarization of the Gaza Strip.

The plan calls for the international community to oversee the demilitarization of the Gaza Strip using the same system that is successfully ridding Syria of chemical weapons. In return, Arab countries and the international community would provide the Palestinian Authority with fifty billion dollars to rehabilitate refugee camps and build the Gaza Strip.

The sum was based on a Canadian assessment of what would be required to build up the Gaza Strip economically. Mofaz, who wrote the plan long before the operation in the Gaza Strip began, said it could take up to six months to negotiate and up to a year to implement.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 12:22 PM

Sounds good, Boo - as long as they de-militarize Israel at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 12:41 PM

Yeah right Greg like there is an equivalency between Israel and Hamas. Are you just being an idiot or is that your hatred on display?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 12:50 PM

You missed a bit Booboo – total surrender, no less.
Jim Carroll

From the Jerusalem Post
Cabinet ministers: IDF may have to reconquer all or part of Gaza to ensure security
By LAHAV HARKOV 07/21/2014 14:03
Likud Minister Erdan says operation can't be stopped until a demilitarized Gaza is ensured; says Israel may have to reconquer northern Gaza.
Home Front Defense Minister Gilad Erdan Photo: Marc Israel Sellem/The Jerusalem Post
Security Cabinet members said Thursday that the IDF may need to re-conquer all or part of Gaza to ensure Hamas does not continue to attack Israel.
Communications Minister Gilad Erdan said during a visit to Ashkelon Monday that the IDF must continue fighting until it ensures long-term calm.
"We cannot stop the operation while it is still unclear whether the Gaza Strip will be demilitarized or not. If that means the IDF needs to stay in the northern Gaza Strip to ensure quiet, then we will have to reconquer the area near its northern border," Erdan said.
The cabinet member added that he hopes there will not be a ceasefire in the coming days, until the threat of terror tunnels, with which Israel cannot live, is removed.
Strategic Affairs Minister Yuval Steinitz, visited Ashkelon, as well.
"The fighting will continue for a long time and could include more expansions," Steinitz said. "If we need to, we will take over the whole [Gaza] Strip."
Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee chairman Ze'ev Elkin (Likud) said "this is not an easy morning. We are all with the families of the fallen and the injured. This is not a simple operation...This is the nature of war, so we are not surprised."
According to Elkin, Israel had no choice but to start this operation, which he called a war, and that it will save Israeli lives.
"This is the national consensus," he added.
Elkin pointed out that more people will die, but "this is a war on our home."
When visiting injured soldiers, Elkin found that they all called to continue the fighting "all the way."
"We won't stop in the middle and won't allow Hamas to grow stronger from this operation," he stated.
Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee Monday that the IDF will call up reservists and continue fighting until quiet is returned.
Overnight Sunday, more forces entered Gaza to find terrorist tunnels in new areas of the Strip, Ya'alon told MKs, saying it is unfortunate that Hamas terrorists harmed IDF soldiers.
"We are prepared to continue the operation as long as necessary, and, if necessary, to enlist more combat forces from the reserves until we bring quiet to the Gaza Strip," Ya'alon stated.
Ya'alon listed several efforts being made as part of Operation Protective Edge: The central one, to destroy terror tunnels, stopping rocket and missile shootings at different ranges.
The IDF struck over 2,700, including rocket launchers, tunnels and terrorists' homes, he added.
"These efforts are bearing fruit while the Iron Dome almost completely neutralizes attempts to harm Israel's cities," he explained. "It seems that we have found a reasonable response to this threat."
Related articles
Netanyahu: IDF's achievements so far are 'better than expected'
Livni: No policy to reoccupy Gaza, but if rockets don't stop, 'all options on table'

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 01:02 PM

"total surrender, no less."

Those are your words but I agree that the ideal solution for the population of Gaza would be the removal of Hamas.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 01:06 PM

"Course they say that, just as the butchers of Lidice had evidence that the townspeople were sheltering the killers of Heydrich - oldest trick in the world"

I could give several examples of lies told against Israel just from memory, but not any examples of israel doing it.
I know all governments do, so they must, but none come to mind.
Help me out Jim.
Can you think of any?

Anyway, it is not just Israel who say that Hamas sites its positions among civilians.
It is an established fact.
UN has criticised them for it, and all news agencies have reported it.


"All Hamas sites are placed among civilians."
So all civilians are legitimate targets - according to you mob (if it were true)"

No Jim.
I am amazed that you find the rules so hard to grasp.
Civilians must NEVER be targeted.
Hamas still does, but Israel does not.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 01:25 PM

Yeah right Greg like there is an equivalency between Israel and Hamas.

There is. That's what you've missed. Or are blind to.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 02:34 PM

Israel is militarized for the same reason that Hamas is....is that what you're saying? If so then you are the one who is being willfully blind.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 02:41 PM

BTW, anyone who would equate Israel to Hamas is sick, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 03:17 PM

OK..We've heard enough of the 'justifications' and 'blame throwing'..Now WHAT WOULD YOU DO?????...as Israel and/or Hamas??

This seems to be a topic that the pro-Hamas/anti-Semitics, are doing their best to avoid and not weigh in on. Anyone can bitch...but how about a solution, or at least a plan, as you see it.....unless all you see fit to do is piss, whine and moan.
I am as anti-war as any of you...but that is not the same as anti defending your country, when facing unprovoked barrages of missiles.
What would you expect your country to do, if missiles were blowing up in your neighborhood??
Answers??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 03:34 PM

"Civilians must NEVER be targeted.
Hamas still does, but Israel does not."
Neither do - Hamas hasn't got the wherewithal to do so, Israel has the firepower not to have to bother.
It's just been announced that Ban Ki-moon had condemned Israeli action and has demanded they cease fire immediately
Sy#tick your war crimes butchery appeasement up your hole, you and your mates
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 04:11 PM

"What would you expect your country to do, if missiles were blowing up in your neighborhood??"

Any normal country would move to eliminate that threat.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 04:12 PM

And be legally and morally justified in doing so I might add.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 04:16 PM

Neither do (target civilians) - Hamas hasn't got the wherewithal to do so,

Wrong Jim.
Hamas do.
Those people you call "resistance fighters" are defined as terrorists by Ireland, rest of EU and most democracies precisely because they do.

Their suicide bombers' preferred target is buses, preferably with schoolkids on board.
Their mortars target kibutzes.
Their indiscriminate missiles are aimed at population centres.
That is what they do.

Every dead Palestinian civilian is a propaganda disaster for Israel, so they try hard to avoid them.
Every dead civilian is a propaganda victory for Hamas, so.....

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 05:53 PM

bobad: "And be legally and morally justified in doing so I might add.

bobad: "What would you expect your country to do, if missiles were blowing up in your neighborhood??"
Any normal country would move to eliminate that threat."

OK..We've heard from one side....how about the other??

BTW, who launched the first strike?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 06:28 PM

I doubt you'll receive any cogent replies from those whose twisted view of reality calls Israel an aggressor and terrorist for having the temerity to defend itself. I'm sure Hitler's supporters also called the forces allied against him aggressors.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 07:04 PM

This comment is from my friend Tarek Fatah, a Muslim who is a tireless campaigner against militant Islam. It succinctly sums up the current situation, IMO.

"The courage and perseverance of the Palestinians cannot be denied, but their rightful quest for statehood has been ruined by an evil Hamas that has turned their national struggle into an Islamic Jihad against Jews that is destined to fail. What a pity. What a waste of precious lives and sacrifices."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:19 PM

bobad: "I doubt you'll receive any cogent replies from those whose twisted view of reality..."

Right now, it appears I won't even get a 'reasonable facsimile'. Maybe if they can't come up with one, it's and indication that they ought to reconsider their biases.
But one of them might come up with something...who knows?... maybe someone on Mudcat has the answer to the centuries old problem...besides humans having the amazing capacity for dumb opinions!
Give it a shot, guys!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 22 Jul 14 - 06:30 AM

"Hamas's use of civilians and civilian buildings in Gaza as a shield is well known. Media reports tell of rockets being launched from residential buildings and schoolyards, munitions stored in houses, mosques and hospitals, Hamas leaders using civilian homes as command posts, and civilians being encouraged to go up on their roofs as human shields. These reports unfortunately rarely, if ever, mention that such conduct violates the law and, even more important, puts civilians at ever greater risk of death and injury."

Mandy Rice-Davies!!

ISRAELI Media reports, which are the only "evidence?" for the above claims and which of course are totally impartial......and pigs might fly!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 22 Jul 14 - 06:41 AM

"HAMAS HAS SITED MILITARY INSTALLATIONS IN HOMES< SCHOOLS< AND HOSPITALS >>>WHICH IS A WAR CRIME YOU KEEP SILENT ABOUT<<<"

ACCORDING TO ISRAELI PROPAGANDA SOURCES, which you trust in the almost mindlessly naive fashion in which you also regard every Palestinian (man, woman, and child) as a terrorist.

Killing the kids is just a prophylactic against future conflict, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jul 14 - 06:41 AM

"whose twisted view of reality..."
GRIM REALITY
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Jul 14 - 07:07 AM

Without even trying to intervene directly in this interminable exchange, would just observe that this swop&swop of copy-pasted reports from publications or communiqués of the two opposing sides, along with assertions that this one is trustworthy but the other is only a bit of the old Mandy R-D, constitutes a never-ending mulberry-bush round which it might be politic to stop going ad ∞, & move on to some other motif before Grim·☠☠·Reaper·☠☠·Esq supervenes...

Just saying

~M~