BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 09:16 AM

Just in case you missed this first time around - in full this time.
Further evidence of Israel's 'peaceful' intentions
"The war killed around 1,200 Lebanese. Most of the victims were civilians.
In 2009, Lebanon filed a complaint with the UN, presenting over 7,000 documents pertaining to Israeli violations of the Lebanese territory."
Jim Carroll

LEBANON CRITICAL AS ISRAELI SOLDIERS HURT
MARK WEISS in Jerusalem
Irish Times Thursday *th August 2013

Lebanon says it will file a com¬plaint with the United Nations Security Council after four Is¬raeli soldiers were injured in a mine explosion within Leba¬nese territory.
Lebanese foreign minister Adnan Mansour condemned "Israel's infiltration of Leba¬nese territory" early yesterday morning, describing it as a "bla¬tant violation of Lebanese sov¬ereignty and of UN resolution 1701", which ended the second Lebanese war in 2006.
Israeli security sources con¬firmed that four soldiers had been wounded. Israeli media re¬ported that the troops belonged to an elite unit and that large forces deployed in the area fol¬lowing the blast.
Large explosions
Lebanese residents reported hearing large explosions, after which Israeli flares lit up the border area.
Israeli defence minister Moshe Ya'alon said the injured soldiers were engaged in opera¬tional activity needed to pre¬serve the quiet in the north.
"During the operation, the forces hit an explosive device. We are studying the event to un¬derstand whether this was a new or old device. Obviously we'll learn the lesson that needs to be learned here, but the activ¬ity will continue," he said.
The wounded troops were rushed to western Galilee hospi¬tal in Nahariya where three un¬derwent surgery to remove shrapnel and the fourth was ad¬mitted to intensive care.
A statement by the Lebanese army said the soldiers were in¬jured after penetrating 400 me¬tres across the border.
A Lebanese military official said the soldiers stepped on a landmine after crossing the ceasefire line on foot.
Hizbullah-affiliated media outlets, reported that the explo¬sion occurred in the Lebanese border village of Labbouneh.
Israeli prime minister Biny¬amin Netanyahu said soldiers worked 24 hours a day to pro¬tect the country's borders.
"That's what happened last night," he added. "We'll contin¬ue to act responsibly to protect Israel's borders."
Beefed up forces
Israel's northern border with Lebanon has been quiet since the end of the second Lebanese war in 2006 but the civil war in Syria prompted Israel to beef up forces along the border.
http://www.presstv.com/detail/230537.html

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 09:29 AM

"Destroying Israel is the interest of the entire Arab world, Hizbullah chief Hassan Nasrallah declared on Friday.

AFP reported that the head of the Lebanese terror group made a rare public appearance at a Beirut rally held to mark Iran's Quds Day.

In his speech, Nasrallah thanked "Iran and Syria for all they are doing for Palestine and Jerusalem, and for all they have given to resistance movements (fighting Israel) in Lebanon and Palestine".

Nasrallah called for the end of Israel, saying its elimination "is in the interest not only of the Palestinians but the entire Arab and Muslim world," according to AFP."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 11:30 AM

http://youtu.be/e-Pv2pdT6Po

         Zombie

Another head hangs lowly,
Child is slowly taken.
And the violence caused such silence,
Who are we mistaken?

But you see, it's not me, it's not my family.
In your head, in your head they are fighting,
With their tanks and their bombs,
And their bombs and their guns.
In your head, in your head, they are crying...

In your head, in your head,
Zombie, zombie, zombie,
Hey, hey, hey. What's in your head,
In your head,
Zombie, zombie, zombie?
Hey, hey, hey, hey, oh, dou, dou, dou, dou, dou...

Another mother's breakin',
Heart is taking over.
When the vi'lence causes silence,
We must be mistaken.

It's the same old theme since nineteen-sixteen.
In your head, in your head they're still fighting,
With their tanks and their bombs,
And their bombs and their guns.
In your head, in your head, they are dying...

In your head, in your head,
Zombie, zombie, zombie,
Hey, hey, hey. What's in your head,
In your head,
Zombie, zombie, zombie?
Hey, hey, hey, hey, oh, oh, oh,
Oh, oh, oh, oh, hey, oh, ya, ya-a...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 11:53 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 11:54 AM

Whoops
The continuing refusal to acknowledge Israel's present actions and the effect they will have on the peace talks only underlines the facts of the matter.
Israel is the aggressor,
She has always been the aggressor, since the setting up of the state.
She will continue to be the aggressor for as long as she adopts an aggressive expansionist policy.
The Arabs did not trust the setting up of the state of Israel in the manner in which it came about; history has proved that this mistrust was justified.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 01:09 PM

Sorry, that was me.

Bobad, Arab countries have not rescued their people. They have not provided them true hospitality that I would view as such . They have 22 countries and much wealth. I want to know what's up with that. It seems the sheiks have abandoned their own people and they are true fascists in the home- where it all begins. If they would be friends with Israel, a door would open. Preventing that? Their own sentiments, aided and abetted by hardcore Israeli right wingers who say that anyone who disagrees with them is Hitler. The problem with hate is that it tends to go full circle. You become the thing you hate and you cannot learn from pain and sufferring- except to hate more.

These right wing Israelis are a scourge to Jews everywhere who wanted Einstein's Israel, who wanted Israel to stand for human rights. The Arabs are not helping. They have earned mistrust with their tactics. As long as they are spoiling for a fight, Israel will give it to them. And God help me, I would just as soon they did. And that's a very hard, very painful thing for me to say. I'm a natural born pacifist. When my ways have gotten me really hurt, I don't change. I chalk it up and remind myself of all the good people I have known.

World peace? Are you kidding me. Bobad, I hate the Pentagon. The very people who profit from war are the ones setting policy. Peddling fear on a regular basis. This latest terror threat? Complete bullshit. A Pentagon reaction to Russia giving asylum to Edward Snowden. To give us the impression we need them. Yeah, like a hole in the head. If their methods worked, Boston would not have happened. If they were interested in anything besides unlimited power, it would have been prevented. What do they want? Never ending war because that's how they make their money. But I digress...

In regard to Israel, There are deeper issues at hand here, namely the treatment of women and children. I could never in good conscience side with anyone against Israel. An end to this patriarchal nonsense is what I value most. I am no cultural relativist.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 01:29 PM

And look at this. Tell me, what in earth could be more wrong than this?

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3557149

It's those damned right wingers. They won't be happy until they kill us all.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 04:09 PM

Just announced - 1200 new Israeli homes to be built on illegally occupied land two days before the peace talks are due to resume - blessed are the peacemakers!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 05:32 PM

"JERUSALEM — Israel approved building nearly 1,200 more settlement homes Sunday and agreed to release 26 long-held Palestinian security prisoners – highlighting an apparent settlements-for-prisoners trade-off that got both sides back to peace talks after a five-year freeze."

HuffPo

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 06:20 PM

Every time there's a diplomatic move in the offing, Israel announces more settlements. It wasn't just predictable, it was inevitable. The talks are belly up. One thing and one thing only will make Israel get serious: a threat from the USA to withdraw military aid as soon as settlements are announced or as soon as Israel invades neighbouring sovereign states.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 06:20 PM

Every time there's a diplomatic move in the offing, Israel announces more settlements. It wasn't just predictable, it was inevitable. The talks are belly up. One thing and one thing only will make Israel get serious: a threat from the USA to withdraw military aid as soon as settlements are announced or as soon as Israel invades neighbouring sovereign states.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 06:41 PM

" a threat from the USA to withdraw military aid as soon as settlements are announced or as soon as Israel invades neighbouring sovereign states."

Conversely would you support the USA increasing military aid when sovereign Israel is attacked by neighbouring states? Just wondering.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 06:46 PM

No I wouldn't. The role of US in the region is baleful in the extreme.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 07:17 PM

I don't recall any condemnation of military aid to the terrorists on Israel's borders from Iran and Syria hereabout - but it may just be that my memory is faulty.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 03:58 AM

You missed a bit from your posting
"Yet concerns were mounting, especially among Palestinians, that the price is too steep. Sunday's announcement was Israel's third in a week on promoting Jewish settlements on war-won lands the Palestinians want for a state. It fueled Palestinian fears of a new Israeli construction spurt under the cover of U.S.-sponsored negotiations."

"I don't recall any condemnation of military aid to the terrorists on Israel's borders from Iran and Syria hereabout - but it may just be that my memory is faulty."
I don't recall your once addressing or attempting to answer the questions on the effect the announced long-term programme of continued and accelerating settlements (announced last week and certainly not agreed by Palestine), the incursion into Lebanon, and the persistent public and aggressive messages by braindead Israelis such as their Irish Embassy staff ON THE EVE OF THE RE-STARTING OF PEACE TALKS - but that maybe because your politics and your desire to see the situation settled is "faulty", as it is in the case of the Israelis - they are the aggressors and always have been.
Terrorising people, trying to starve them into submission and stealing their homes kills people - on both sides.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 04:28 AM

Not a great deal of "agreement" here
The link also takes you to the "history" of Israeli aggressive settlement and how it has effevted the size of Palestine from what was agreed in 1948 to what it is now.
Your constant hiding behind carefully selected 'historical facts!!!' and deliberately avoiding the real ones is both dishonest and an indication that you don't even belive your own arguments
Jim Carroll

Israeli Gov't mocks 'Peace Talks' with announcement of 1200 New Squatter homes in Occupied Palestine
POSTED ON 08/12/2013 BY JUAN COLE
The Israeli government of Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu announced Sunday that it would take bids on nearly 1200 new housing units on Palestinian territory occupied by Israel.
The news from Tel Aviv further underlines what a charade the John Kerry-pushed "peace talks" are between a powerful Israel occupying some 4 million stateless Palestinians and the officials of the PLO (who lost the 2006 elections to Hamas before the CIA and Mossad made a coup for them in the West Bank). As RT notes, "Today, more than 100 Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank are home to some 560,000 Israelis living among 2.5 million Palestinians." ('Living among' is apparently a euphemism for "stealing land from").
The "peace talks" are supposed to lead to a Palestinian state with sovereignty over Palestinian territory, which is impossible as long as the Israeli squatters chomp away at the very land on which a state would be erected. Netanyahu's spokesman said that the new building is only in parts of Palestinian territory that are not envisaged to return to the Palestinians from Israeli control in any negotiations. But the new building includes venues like East Jerusalem or the West Bank that Palestinians do in fact envisage recovering in any successful peace talks. Netanyahu is simply dictating beforehand what the Palestinians can have, rather as Elysium dictates to the slum-dwellers of earth in the Blomkamp film.
http://www.juancole.com/2013/08/announcement-squatter-palestine.html

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 05:04 AM

The US knew about the settlement plans before they were announced and quietly accepted them as a sine qua non for the resumption of talks. Accepted a move illegal under international law. Fat chance of progress yet again, then.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 09:32 AM

"Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said the new construction was approved in areas that Israel expects to retain in any future peace deal.

"There is no way it changes the final map of peace," he said. "It changes nothing."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 10:41 AM

You can convince yourself of anything if you try hard enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 10:53 AM

Ditto...I'm sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 10:56 AM

"was approved in areas that Israel expects to retain in any future peace deal."
They/you would say that - wouldn't they/you - the facts say different.
Maybe we should rename the thread "no hope for Booboo the Israelis have made sure that the present one goes without saying 'Small hope for Israel/Palestine' getting smaller by the day.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 11:17 AM

The Palestinian Authority supports an Arab League proposal for land swaps between Israel and a future Palestinian state.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 04:11 PM

You can convince yourself of anything if you try hard enough.

Actually, one can convince oneself of anything if one DOESN'T try hard enough to establish the actual facts of the situation instead of being in thrall to radical Zionist propaganda.

Similar situation with the NRA nuts in the U.S.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 06:20 PM

Correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 06:46 PM

".... being in thrall to radical Zionist propaganda."

Unlike the useful idiots of Hamas and the leftist press.

Oh look here you have been duped again - must be a Zionist plot - hurry up and organize another flotilla...lol:

"The activists do not care about the Palestinians' suffering as much as they are interested in advancing their anti-Israel agenda. They rarely have anything good to offer the Palestinians."

"Hamas has finally admitted that it is the Egyptians, and not Israel, who have turned the Gaza Strip into a "big prison."

Ghazi Hamad, a senior official with the Hamas-controlled foreign ministry, was quoted this week as saying that the Gaza Strip has been turned into a "big prison as a result of the continued closure of the Rafah border crossing by the Egyptian authorities since June 30."

"Until recently, the charge that the Gaza Strip has been turned into a "big prison" had been made only against Israel, capturing the attention of the mainstream media and human rights organizations around the world.

But now that the charge is being made against Egypt, most international journalists, human rights organizations and even "pro-Palestine" groups, especially at university campuses in the US, Canada and Australia, have chosen to look the other way."

Egypt Blockades Gaza:Where Are the Flotillas?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 08:42 PM

Nice one Booboo,
Meet The Gatestone Institute
Jim Carroll

Nina Rosenwald is founder of the Gatestone Institute—a New York-based offshoot of the neoconservative Hudson Institute—and an important funder of a panoply of right-wing "pro-Israel" and anti-Islamic organizations. Dubbed the "Sugar Mama of Anti-Muslim Hate" by journalist Max Blumenthal, Rosenwald is an heir to the Sears Roebuck fortune, a co-chair of the board at the equity firm American Securities Management, and vice president of the William Rosenwald Family Fund, which has donated enormous sums to conservative causes. She is the daughter of the late William Rosenwald, a liberal Zionist philanthropist who founded the United Jewish Appeal in the late 1930s.
http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/rosenwald_nina

June 19, 2012 |

In late April, Geert Wilders arrived in New York City to tell his quixotic tale to a rapt American audience. The far-right Dutch Party of Freedom leader—perhaps the world's most prominent anti-Muslim populist—was poised to releaseMarked for Death: Islam's War Against the West and Me, a memoir just out from Regnery, the right-wing US publishing house, in which he recounts his courageous efforts to stop the "Islamicization" of Europe. On his US tour, Wilders proudly portrayed himself as a man on the run—a round-the-clock security detail guarding him against radical Muslims whose violent passions he had supposedly inflamed by his truth-telling—and as a man on the rise: the exodus of his party from the governing coalition had forced new elections in the Netherlands, throwing the country's ossified establishment into chaos.
Upon Wilders's arrival in New York, a little-known think tank called the Gatestone Institute rolled out the red carpet for him. On April 30, before a select crowd that according to Gatestone's website had paid $10,000 a head, he held forth on the persecution he had endured during his recent trial for incitement to hatred and discrimination. "This charade that happened in the Netherlands for the last few years could not have happened in your great country," Wilders said in his speech. Then he cut to the heart of his appeal: "Islam is primarily a dangerous ideology rather than a religion. This is the truth. This violent ideology wants to impose Islamic Sharia law on the whole world, including us—the Kafirs, the non-Muslims…. Islam is the largest threat to freedom which the world is currently facing."
http://www.alternet.org/story/155895/meet_the_sugar_mama_of_anti-muslim_hate

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 08:50 PM

Typical, ignore what Ghazi Hamad said and instead attack the messenger. You dupes are so predictable.

Oh, and the article's author is named Khaled Abu Toameh - must be a Zionist in disguise.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 03:56 AM

"Typical, ignore what Ghazi Hamad said and instead attack the messenger. You dupes are so predictable."
You reject every single piece of evidence put before you as coming from "useful idiots of Hamas and the leftist press" and instead, present us with an article from an openly extremist rabid right-wing self-declared Zionist journal run by a bunch of dedicated Islamophobic fascists and expect us to swallow it wholesale - what are you on Boo Boo?
The article has sweet f.a. to do with the fact that Israel's behaviour in expanding its settlements at the present time will almost certainly, and probably has been designed to wreck the peace talks.
The fact that you will not even discuss these actions, but rather, hide behind irrelevant information that has been invented by people whose job it is to do that sort of thing, is indication that you are fully of aware what the Israelis are doing and why, and don't give a fiddler's fart.   
Come back when you have something sensible to say - or find someone who does.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 04:56 AM

""According to Reuters, Abbas stated at the time, "In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli – civilian or soldier – on our lands."""

When Abbas talks about some faraway dream of resolution, there are cries of horror from the most vicious premier in Israel's history, but when, in the West Bank under that premier's authority, Israelis pursue a similar ethnic cleansing in reality, that is just natural expansion?

Double standards anyone?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 05:42 AM

""Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said the new construction was approved in areas that Israel expects to retain in any future peace deal.

"There is no way it changes the final map of peace," he said. "It changes nothing.""

Israel shows absolutely no sign of any intent to remove itself from occupation of 62% of what should ultimately be the larger part of the state of Palestine.

The settlement of 2% of that land may be almost irrelevant. The fencing off of 62% and the treatment of those 56,000 Palestinians still remaining in Area C in an obvious attempt to bully them into leaving is the real issue.

Having already compressed 1.7 million Palestinians into the tiny Gaza Strip, Israel is now compressing another 2.1 million into just 38% of what should be their homeland.

Far from the innocent victim of Muslim aggression it claims to be, Israel is actually squeezing the Palestinians into an utterly unsustainable land area which puts them at the mercy of Israel, since they can, at the drop of a hat, be starved into submission.

That is what passes for peaceful intentions in the Israeli government.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 05:49 AM

And taking the best land with the best water supplies for themselves. Time-honoured. Iain Smith did it and apartheid South Africa did it.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 07:15 AM

"...a bunch of dedicated Islamophobic fascists"

I'm sure Khaled Abu Toameh would be relieved to know that he is an "Islamophobic fascist".

You don't like being exposed as a dupe of the Palestinian propaganda machine do you Mr. Carroll?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 11:33 AM

"I'm sure Khaled Abu Toameh would be relieved to know that he is an "Islamophobic fascist".
Toameh appears to be an ex Terrorist and is now an Uncle Tom who has changed sides.
As good a journalist as he might be, he is openly a mouthpiece for the Israeli regime and has devoted his career to speaking on their behalf against `his own people including in the official Israeli newspaper, The Jerusalem Post.
The fact that he writes for a self acclaimed Zionist ultra-right fascist rag says all there is to be said for him.
What's your point?
Just a reminder, it is you who have dismissed any criticism of Israel as "dupes, and useful idiots of Hamas and the leftist press"
Enjoy!
Jim Carroll

Khaled Abu Toameh is a Palestinian journalist, living in Jerusalem, who writes for the Jerusalem Post and the Jerusalem Report. Toameh appears as a commentator in Obsession, the anti-Islamic propaganda film. Abu Toameh is part of a group of Palestinians, Muslims or "former terrorists" who now have recanted or have become hostile to their own background/religion. People like Toameh, Walid Shoebat, Brigitte Gabriel, etc., are taken on tour of the United States to malign Palestinians or Muslims.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Khaled_Abu_Toameh

Abu Toameh is a staunch defender of freedom of speech and has criticized the Palestinian Authority for arresting and harassing Palestinian journalists in the West Bank. He said it has become impossible for an independent Arab journalists to work freely in the Palestinian-controlled territories of the West Bank.
In 2009, Toameh declared that "Israel is a wonderful place to live and we are happy to be there. Israel is a free and open country. If I were given the choice, I would rather live in Israel as a second class citizen than as a first class citizen in Cairo, Gaza, Amman or Ramallah."[23] In December 2011 Abu Toameh met in Jerusalem with Georgia State Elected Officials and briefed them on the current developments in the Middle East and the peace process.
In the Durban Review Conference, Toameh criticized Israeli Arab Knesset members for supporting extremism and calling Israel a "state of apartheid" rather than fighting for the rights of Arab citizens of Israel:
And then they come here to tell us that Israel is a state of apartheid? Excuse me. What kind of hypocrisy is this? What then are you doing in the Knesset? If you are living in an apartheid system, why were you allowed, as an Arab, to run in the election? What are you talking about? We do have problems as Arabs with the establishment here. But to come and say that Israel is an apartheid state is a big exaggeration. I am not here to defend Israel, but I think that Knesset members like this gentleman are doing huge damage to the cause of Israeli Arabs. I want to see the Knesset member sitting in the Knesset, in Jerusalem, and fighting for the rights of Arabs over there.[23]
In response, Ali Kazak, former PLO ambassador to Australia, called Toameh a "traitor."[7][24]
Abu Toameh is not only condemned but is often threatened. He says however that more threats are coming from outside the Middle East than from within the Palestinian Authority and that rather uniquely those that threaten him do not not question his reporting but rather want him to shut up.[25]
In an article published in November 2011, Khaled Abu Toameh criticized the current leadership of Israel's Arab citizens for damaging relations between Jews and Arabs inside the Jewish state. Abu Toameh has also written against the mistreatment of Palestinians by Arab governments, which he accused of imposing "apartheid" against Palestinians,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_Abu_Toameh

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 11:35 AM

By the way - he makes no secret of his 'Islamophobia'
You relly should be mre careful in choosing your friends
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 11:49 AM

So someone who has seen the terrorist organization from the inside and knows what a sham it is and is brave enough to speak out against it is an "Uncle Tom" and a mouthpiece for the Israeli regime. Only to you and your fellow travelers Carroll.

Oh and by the way you smear my source with this source:

SourceWatch is a propaganda site funded by an extreme left-wing, anti-capitalist and anti-corporate organization, the Center for Media and Democracy. Just like the untrustworthy Wikipedia the content can be written and edited by ordinary web users. Users who all conveniently share an extreme left-wing bias. SourceWatch is frequently cited by those seeking to smear individuals and organizations who do not share their extreme left-wing bias since they cannot find any legitimate criticisms from respected news sources.

Good god, have you no shame, man.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 11:57 AM

I have the decency to answer questions when put to me and don't try to avoid them by skulking behind history or using self confessed Islamophobes and Zionist fascists as 'evidence'
I don't suppose you'd like to clarify that last piece of gibberish - thought not!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 12:02 PM

By the way - if you continue calling me silly names I will have no alternative but to report you to the Jellystone Park Ranger - what would Yogi say?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 12:06 PM

an extreme left-wing, anti-capitalist and anti-corporate organization, the Center for Media and Democracy.

Extreme left wing? 'Scuse me? You been listening to Beck and Limbaugh again? Or do you just not have a clue what you're talking about?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 01:48 PM

"Extreme left wing? 'Scuse me? You been listening to Beck and Limbaugh again"
The odd thing it's an organisation that has been used at length by boo Boo and his buddies when they could extract just enough from it to score a point -one of those friends that suddenly becomes an enemy when they don't say the right things in the right way - flexible pragmaitism I think they call it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 02:06 PM

flexible pragmaitism I think they call it.

Oh, OK - gotcha, Jim. I thought it was adaptive pragmatism, tho.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 05:08 PM

That as well
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 04:50 AM

I have always suported the creation of the state of Israel but have been saddened by their Govt policies ever since they invaded Lebanon which added to the instability of that fragile state. There are two "logical" solutions to the 2 state policy, neither of which would be accepted by the interested parties. Either the whole of the West Bank becomes a Palestinian state without any Israeli enclaves and an exchange of population on the scale of the Greek/Turkish 1920s solution, which would probably lead to civil war between Hamas and Fatah. OR Israeli takeover of all the West Bank with any Arabs not prepared to lives within an Israeli state moved to Jordan, which would probably destroy Jordan. The Gaza strip is a basket case and can never be viable and should be part of Israel, giving space for settlers from West Bank.
In reality, I fear that in the long term demographics will destroy Israel. The highest birth rates are among Palestinians and the Ultra Orthodox jews who don't recognise the state but live off its handouts, not working, only studying the Torah and not doing National Service. With fewer jews from the Diaspora choosing to move to Israel and the educated, liberal population having fewer children, their ability to withstand Arab pressures will decline. This might push them into the nuclear solution which is unthinkable.
To encourage/coerce peace negotiations, US should stop subsidising Israel. It was sensible as the state was being established, but no longer, Israel isn't a Third World country needing aid if it gives up its nuclear ambitions.

My 2 shekels.

RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 05:41 AM

Some consequences of the Israeli settlements programme consequences, for Palestine, for Israel and for the world, as outlined in the Irish Times this morning
The article is accompanied by a cartoon showing Palestinian and Israeli negotiators sitting around a conference table around which two building workers are constructing a new houe. John Kerry is standing by saying "take no notice of them".
Don't suppose Boo Boo will respond to this nay more than he has responded to anything else – maybe 'The Stonegate Institute' has the answer!
Jim Carroll

Senior Palestinian official Yasser Abed Rabbo warned that Israel's determination to press ahead with settlement construction could torpedo the talks.
"Settlement expansion goes against the US administration's pledges and threatens to cause the negotiations' collapse. This settlement expansion is unprec¬edented. It threatens to make talks fail even before they've started," he said.

DELEGITIMISATION CAMPAIGN
Bloomberg columnist Jeffrey Goldberg quoted Mr Kerry warning Mr Netanyahu in recent weeks that if the current peace talks bear no fruit, Israel may soon be facing an interna¬tional delegitimisation cam¬ paign - in his words - "on ster¬oids". The recent decision by the European Union to cut all funds to any Israeli enterprise over the 1967 green line caused shock waves in Israel and was described by minister Tzipi Livni, who will head the Israeli ne¬gotiating team at the peace talks, as a wake-up call.
Mr Netanyahu's biggest fear is that a campaign to isolate and delegitimise Israel would erode Israel's ability to defend itself, particularly if it is forced to act unilaterally to stop Iran acquiring a nuclear bomb.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 08:58 AM

It's hard to have hope, especially for the future, with this kind of indoctrination going on and funded by the UNRWA no less:

"New video footage appears to show Palestinian children in summer camps run by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) being taught that "Jews are the wolf," and that they will one day conquer Israeli cities by force."

"In another scene, a teacher is heard asking the students, "Do you want to return to Jaffa?" They respond enthusiastically, "Yes!" "Haifa?" "Yes!" "Nazareth?" "Yes!"

All these cities are inside modern sovereign Israel."

"....a burka-clad speaker in the report who tells a circle of young campers, "With God's help and our own strength we will wage war. And with education and Jihad we will return to our homes!"

"Her story soon takes a chilling turn. The Palestinians were having a nice barbecue on the beach when a wolf appeared, she recounts. "Who is the wolf?" the teacher asks. "The Jews! Isn't it true that the Jews are the wolf?"

"Who expelled us?" she asks the kids, who listen with rapt attention. "The Jews!" they yell energetically.

"I will defeat the Jews," a camper named Tayma tells the documentary crew. "They are a gang of infidels and Christians. They don't like Allah and do not worship Allah. And they hate us."

One young campers sums up, "The summer camp teaches us that we have to liberate Palestine."

Article

Video

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 09:59 AM

Why are the pre-1967 borders so sacred? The Arab nations have never accepted them.

From 1948 to 1967, the Jordanian occupied West bank was NOT made into a Palestinian state- Although Jews were driven out and settlements of Moslims were put in ( no complaints about THOSE settlements, I note). No-one has ever said what the Jews driven out of there, and from other Arab lands, should be given. There were 820,000 Jews driven out of Arab nations ( the vast majority), and 640,00 Arab Moslims ( less than the number who stayed in Israel and became citizens) who left Israel.

The Jewish refugees were settled, the majority by Israel. The Palestinian Moslims were held in refugee camps BY THE ARAB NATION, and not allowed to settle, even in the Mandate Palestine Arab homeland of Jordan. Whose fault is that? Why should Israel be responsible for the Arab nations treatment of the Palestinian refugees?

IF the Palestinians "should" be given the West bank and Jerusalam, perhaps the Jews should be given Mecca, and Saudi Arabia.

The last set of borders accepted by the Arab nations were the 1924 division of Mandate Palestine into the Arab Moslim homeland of Trans-Jordan ( 77+% of the Mandate territory)
and the Jewish Homeland of the remainder. Jews were forbidden to settle in the Arab Moslim homeland.

When Jordan occupied the West Bank, from 1948 to 1967, Jews from any nations were prohibited from access to their most holy site, the Wailing Wall. Since 1967, the Arabs have retained access and control of the Temple Mount in Jerusalam, one of their holy sites.There is ZERO chance that the Israelis will give any part of Jerusalam to the Palestinians. Period.

The idea that the Palestinians should be able to get whatever part of Israel that they want is something like the KKK demanding that Richmond be turned over to them to rebuild the Confederacy. NC, sure, but Richmond???

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 11:14 AM

Oh dear - yet another 'land-grabber apologist' busily ignoring the fact that there's a conference taking place at present and the Israeli's are hell bent on disrupting it.
Boo Boo won't - how about you addressing the fact that, if they get their way the conference will collapse leading to yet more bloodshed, Palestinian, Israeli and possibly they rest of us.
Won't hold my breath - you people don't go there, do you?
" like the KKK demanding that Richmond be turned over to them to rebuild the Confederacy. NC"
Why not - seems to have worked fine for the Israelis
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 11:17 AM

What about the West Bank lands grabbed from the Jews when they were expelled by the Jordanians? Conveniently ignored in this "discussion". Why is that?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 12:00 PM

Hey, Bobad,

You are making the mistake that Jews are humans. The ones here pushing for the Palestinians have already stated that Jews have no rights, and should be removed by whatever means that are available. The fact that a Palestinian Homeland WAS formed from
Mandate Palestine, and restricted to Moslim ONLY settlement, on the vast majority of the land that had been designated as a Jewish Homeland by the treaty ending WW 1 seems to be ignored- after all, if the Arabs want ALL the land, they should of course be given it. It is not like Jews are worth being fair to.

(SARCASM)

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 12:48 PM

But then, it is nothing new.




"'To the Grand Mufti: The National Socialist movement of Greater Germany has, since its inception, inscribed upon its flag the fight against the world Jewry. It has therefore followed with particular sympathy the struggle of freedom-loving Arabs, especially in Palestine, against Jewish interlopers. In the recognition of this enemy and of the common struggle against it lies the firm foundation of the natural alliance that exists between the National Socialist Greater Germany and the freedom-loving Muslims of the whole world. In this spirit I am sending you on the anniversary of the infamous Balfour declaration my hearty greetings and wishes for the successful pursuit of your struggle until the final victory – Reichsfuehrer S.S. Heinrich Himmler"
2 November 1943

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 01:20 PM

BeardedBullshit, welcome bacK! Hope you had a good few days rest; I'm sure it's exhausting for you to produce the mounds of horseshit you regularly splatter over this forum, and your stinking sewage was sorely missed by one and all, I'm sure.

But what has Herr Himmler's screed got to do with anything? Are you abandoning the Klan for the Nazis?