BS: Let's talk about the US election

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 11:04 AM

Big Al, YOU keep bringing it up. I just described the numbers game that gets played here. Dick, stop sending PMs.

We know what happened, but the difference in votes is about 0.05% that would have turned the election. If half of one percent of all of those voters were in those swing states, Harris would have won even without the popular vote (it's how Trump won the first time). It's a screwed up system based upon colonial Southern landowners in slave-holding states. It means Harris connected with a lot of people, she wasn't out of touch, but they didn't figure out how to get past the outright lies told by the Trump campaign to working people who didn't know that their news sources are like FOX as Trump parrots or like 'influencers' on disconnected social media. And don't doubt that Russia influenced a lot of those disconnected folks.

The party chairs in each state will sum up the results in their states and the party will choose a new leader and maybe in two years the Democratic opposition will break through that news/sound barrier.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 01:19 PM

Here's something to cheer about:

Donald Trump's choice for US attorney-general, Matt Gaetz, withdraws, from consideration

"Donald Trump's controversial pick for US attorney-general, Matt Gaetz, says he has decided to withdraw his name from consideration.

"The US Congress's House Ethics Committee had been considering releasing a report into allegations Mr Gaetz had engaged in sexual misconduct.

Mr Gaetz denies the allegations, which include that he had sex with a 17-year-old girl."

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 01:32 PM

Democrats consider themselves the adults in the room, not falling for conspiracy theories and say the elections are sound. Then articles like this one come along: Cyber-Security Experts Warn Election Was Hacked
'Musk is guilty as fuck'

Cyber-security experts across America are raising the alarm of wide-scale election fraud securing Trump’s victory — and the data is compelling.

Two open letters penned by computer scientists and hacking experts have detailed how the USA’s election software was compromised and the relatively simple hack which could have then been used to fix the results in the seven swing states. They are calling for an immediate hand recount in key precincts which, they say, should swiftly show that a number of these ballots never existed.

There are already numerous articles online stating that this is a left wing conspiracy, and Elon Musk himself has warned that those raising concerns about the “hoax” will face “the hammer of justice”. However, the articles debunking these concerns have only focused on the claim that Musk used his internet service Starlink to steal the election. As detailed below, this is not what the cyber security experts are warning of — although Starlink may have played a role.

The Data

The key data raising concerns that a hack may have been deployed is the number of bullet ballots which exist for Trump in swing states. Bullet ballots are when voters vote for one candidate—in this case the President—and don’t fill out the rest of the ballot. Every year, in every state—including in the past two elections Trump ran in—the percentage of bullet ballots is around 1%. This trend has stayed consistent in the 43 non-swing states in the 2024 election. However, the percentage of bullet ballots is not just anomalous in swing states for Trump this year—it is off the charts.

According to one of the open letters, in Arizona, Trump’s percentage of bullet ballots totaled 7.2%. In Nevada, 5.5%. In comparison, bullet ballots for Trump in Oregon, Utah and Idaho—the three states which border Arizona and Nevada, with equally fervent Trump voters—count for less than 0.05% in each state.

The same pattern continues across the other swing states, with an astonishing 11% of votes for Trump in North Carolina being bullet ballots.

Follow the link for the rest of the article. The part that makes this seem most creepy and yet most plausible is the lottery that Musk ran - the description of the information needed to enter that he could then manipulate. In that instance. (I'm not there yet as far as what happened, but the swing states need more examination for this as one of many reasons.)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 01:32 PM

There's a long litany of sleaze on Gaetz, without his connections and influential father he'd be doing time right now so he does seem like a logical pick for a Trump administration AG as having sexual predation on your resume appears to be a plus.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 02:34 PM

The funny part about Gaetz as well is that he resigned from his role as a Congressman in Florida just before Trumpty-Dumpty announced that he was putting Gaetz forward as the AG nominee. Damn & double-damn, Mr Gaetz! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 02:38 PM

Yesterday a news article on National Public Radio more than suggested two significant undersea data cables were deliberately cut, the apparent culprit being a Chinese vessel. Here is
the Newsweek version but it is in several European online pubs.

Curious to me why it would be so obvious, but we already know we live in strange times. Suggests to me another book for the New Era Club.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 03:34 PM

Gaetz has pulled out of contention for AG. Now it's time to worry about the next submission.

I learned long ago that whenever you feel relieved that some sob has left the stage, there's room for worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 03:52 PM

Well, robomatic, one of our balanced political commentators on Oz TV's Planet America said that Gaetz could have been proposed as a "stalking horse" so that the next person nominated gets in with less fuss and less scrutiny.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 06:17 PM

So WHO could he be a stalking horse for . . . Kanye West?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 06:24 PM

Hmm! They mentioned someone else but the name escapes me. I can look it up. Maybe Mike Lee?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 05:56 AM

Bondi. She was Donald's defense lawyer.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 09:33 AM

Gaetz methinks wasn't a stalking horse. His was a sacrificial appointment (he may or may not have been instructed to fall on his sword at the appropriate moment), to distract from the previous appointments' unsuitability for their respective posts. As I said above: "Push The Parent".

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 09:49 AM

I think Gaetz was exactly the kind of toady Trump wanted at DOJ. A true believer who would undertake all manner of unethical and possibly criminal actions against the nation that he's envisioned (including quashing all the federal investigations against him) without question.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 10:15 AM

Newsmax is to the extreme right of Fox News.
TDS is their story as well as the no climate change 'good' news.
Elon's X suppresses URL links outside of X.
Thats why Blue Sky (another version of twitter without Elon's interference) is attracting people who actually want conversation and not another echo chamber.

It seems the usual suspects don't look at media outside their own comfort zone. The seed of this modern US religio fascism goes back 55 years ago to the John Birch Society. Getting the big picture involves going to some VERY unsavory places.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 11:40 AM

It sounds like Gaetz may have been the stalking horse - he was a really smelly candidate whose stink was so much worse than Bondi's. Trump didn't have her in the first cabinet because they had a financial history (not looking it up this morning - but whatever was a problem before is barely a blip this time around.)

The count is continuing and Trump's margin was very small and his take under 50%, but he'll still shout "mandate!" from the top of the White House.

And still looking closely at those swing state counts to see if there was mischief.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 12:52 PM

In my opinion, if there was ever going to be election interference, it would never be by the Democrats. The Trumpian Republicans could/would have interfered to help their own cause in both elections if they had a chance of getting away with it. It would be poetic justice if it could be proven that Trump and his minions, including his Russian friends, had rigged this election.

Bondi's name was not mentioned in the initial list of possible AG's so either he had her in mind all along and was playing a sneaky game, using Gaetz as bait, or she came into his view later and he dropped his previous list and focused on her.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 01:06 PM

Here is a link to a YouTube video of the (Oz) ABC TV show Planet America in the episode a couple of days ago where they discuss Gaetz's nomination for AG.

I'll have to listen to it all to find the exact moment when the "stalking horse" comment was made. I've listened up to the 7 minute mark so far, at the conclusion of their interesting comments about Gaetz.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 05:30 AM

Who are these usual suspects, Don? Accusing people of something and then dehumanising them by giving them derogatory names seems very Trumpian to me.

The usual subjects do not...

Immigrants are not...

Jews do not...

Don't have a go at fascist tactics then use them yourself. If you want to accuse anyone of anything individualise them and provide some reference

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 06:10 AM

well I suppose the weirdest thing (and there are many weird things going on) is the way you are viewing this, and thinking of what to do.

The election is a fait accompli - votes have been cast. By the rules of the game Trump has won. Its his turn to have the big cars, secret service men, steal all movables, and screw the interns.

In England we thought Trump was such a plonker that no one would vote for him. I was quite surprisedwhen American friends told me that all their families back home would be voting for Trump.

Rather than calling Republican voters names , or thinking that there has been a procedural error - maybe there was somthing in the Trump manifesto that sensible people did respond to.

Then all you have to do is pretend that its your idea and promise it will be your top priority, even if you think its a lousy idea and you have no interest in or intention to enact the policy.

Thats how it works in England.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 08:05 AM

Vought was an author of project 2025 and has been named to head the Office of Management and Budget.


Folks in the government know you don't get paid unless the OMB and Treasury Department agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 10:15 AM

ACLU has been studying the Project 2025/Plan 47 stuff and probably has documents being drawn up if they aren't finished already. The states will do a lot of heavy lifting to push back against Trump crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 10:34 AM

When it comes to staffing his new administration Trump seems to have a type-19thnews.org/2024/11/sexual-misconduct-allegations-trump-cabinet-picks

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 10:49 AM

"It seems the usual suspects don't look at media outside their own comfort zone."

I would say that the vast majority of us do not look at media outside our comfort zones. It is not just those who disagree with us.


"In my opinion, if there was ever going to be election interference, it would never be by the Democrats."

That comment made me smile.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 10:55 AM

Tammany Hall is an antidote for that idea (this time around).

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 01:05 PM

I'm glad I made your day, Rain Dog. LOL

To be more specific, in my opinion, if there was ever going to be election interference, it would more likely be by the Republicans than the Democrats.

Sorry, my perspective is from Oz, one person one vote, no electoral college mayhem and with a rigorously protected democratic system. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 01:56 PM

well said Big AL

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 03:11 PM

Trump is an American version (to some extent) of Silvio Berlusconi, who was a three times Prime Minister of Italia. Trump has way more power, but there are similarities in his media background and personality. There are significant differences in personality and the complicated and varied politics of the changing United States.
Today National Public Radio did an article on the leaps made in the Hispanic community by the Republicans this election, which are going to be credited to Trump and are likely to be lasting.

I've been ignoring a lot of the blame shuffling going on but I think that article is a keeper.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 03:27 PM

In this world which is getting more and more closely interconnected, we have to learn to tolerate each other. We have to learn to put up with the fact that some people say things that we don't like. We can only live together in that way, and if we are to live together and not die together we must learn the kind of charity and kind of tolerance which is absolutely vital to the continuation of human life on this planet.”
— Bertrand Russell, BBC Face to Face Interview (5 March 1959)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 05:39 PM

"loser"
- young TRMP

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 12:04 PM

Election interference/cheating is in the Democratic Party historic playbook as much as the historic Republicans. They often called it an equality of cheating this State for that State but since the W Bush administration it is largely a Republican game. The shenanigans after the civil war was a complex and nefarious mess. The Democratic party rode the coat tails of racism into 1900.

I define 'usual suspects' as those who do not see or report the real world but more often see the world from within their own craven hearts which is a dank and hateful place. Their embarrassment is usually unseen by themselves. They behave like an ass and call that freedom.

The Republicans may end up proving how well government actually works after they rid the country of valuable services and fair justice.
Right now they want government so small they can drown it in the bath tub.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 12:18 PM

The Democratic party in 1900 was essentially the Republican party today. Many things have reversed over time.

Right now they want to pour the cash from government coffers into the pockets of the uber rich. While somehow convincing people that they are behaving this way for their benefit.

There are a lot of tall silos around that are echo chambers of their own material. Not participating on places like Twitter/X now but not deleting it so there is a view into that world is part of the discovery process.

The main qualification for selection on the 2025 Trump cabinet seems to be "As Seen on TV." But to be aware of the thoughts of those citizens who voted against their own self-interest, we need to look far beyond the broadcast channels. And listen to AM radio - it's all right there.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 12:30 PM

Trump called Harris a socialist, very wide of the mark and inaccurate

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 01:35 PM

I define 'usual suspects' as those who do not see or report the real world but more often see the world from within their own craven hearts which is a dank and hateful place. Their embarrassment is usually unseen by themselves. They behave like an ass and call that freedom.

So, who are they then? These craven sub-humans who are beneath you?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 03:06 PM

”So, who are they then? These craven sub-humans who are beneath you?”

Well, Dave, I’m sincerely hoping that none of us who contribute to this thread fall into Don’s list of ‘Craven sub-humans’. I don’t see anyone here behaving ‘like an ass’ and calling that ‘freedom’.

But who knows? Don’s posts are so often a diatribe of unintelligible gobbledygook, it’s seldom possible for us mere mortals to be sure of what he speaks.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 03:44 PM

I am reminded that I made the D&C paper in an interview for calling the analysis of the CIA gobbledygook. This was right before the Russian Whitehouse was attacked, much to our surprise.

that was back during my 15 minutes of fame;^/

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 03:53 PM

I could Google it of course but where is the fun in that?

I have no idea what the D&C paper or the Russian Whitehouse are...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 04:16 PM

Democrat and Chronicle.
I did radio and TV in my 20s. The only media training I had was to not swivel in a swivel chair on air, but instead of defining me how about defining the Trump voter.

I would say 20% are just dopamine addicted to Trump. 20% are influenced by repetition or friends. 30% are WCN religiously told to vote for Trump and another 30% who are up for grabs depending upon the opponent.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 05:33 PM

https://afsa.org/crisis-russian-white-house-1993

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 06:33 PM

We don't need the esoteric gobbledygook, Don. I'll delete this stuff if you keep it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 09:27 AM

Strangely I think, things have changed. When elections were about the mass media - remember that thing about Nixon? Would you buy a car of this man?   he looked shifty (as though he hadn't shaved, some people said) compared to Kennedy's clean preppy look.

It was like Stereo - Kennedy coming out of one speaker - Nixon the other.

Compare that to today - whilst the internet has given us avenues of expression, somehow the voices are not as clear and authoritative.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 11:17 AM

”do not know why you feel a need to please unreasonable ad hominem voices.”

Dave has asked previously, and I’ll ask again - who are these ‘unreasonable ad hominem voices’ of whom you speak? Unless you’re prepared to grow a pair of cojones and identify those you accuse, they might as well just be ‘voices in your head’.

”Why threaten me?”

Because it’s your unintelligible gobbledygook?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 04:46 PM

Back to the topic:

Donald Trump's criminal prosecution for election subversion and mishandling documents to be discontinued

"US prosecutors have decided to drop two criminal cases against president-elect Donald Trump.

"Special prosecutor Jack Smith has told courts in Washington DC and Florida he is discontinuing the cases, which related to alleged election interference and mishandling of classified documents.

"In a motion filed in Washington, he cited a longstanding Department of Justice (DOJ) policy not to prosecute a sitting president.

"'The government's position on the merits of the defendant’s prosecution has not changed,' the motion says."

"But the circumstances have."

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 04:48 PM

Sorry, the quote marks went haywire:


"'The government's position on the merits of the defendant’s prosecution has not changed,' the motion says. 'But the circumstances have.'"

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 04:57 PM

So Trump is not guilty.
and Trump has won the latest election.
we cannot change it

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 05:30 PM

He is neither guilty nor innocent, Dick. The case not being tried proves nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 07:25 PM

Smith hasn't said whether he will retain the case to be tried later. The State of Georgia still has a RICO case and that will wait till 2029.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 08:21 PM

Whether he gets convicted in the earthly realm is one thing, but he will be assessed and "sentenced" by St Peter at heaven's gate, and I'm guessing St Peter won't be swayed by human intervention, either by Trump himself or his minions. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 10:03 PM

I don't think St. Peter will have any transactions with Mr. Trump. Do you? He's got a fast track to the hot place.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 11:21 PM

Well everyone has to be vetted at the border, don't they? And I think it would be heavenly justice for Trump, who claims to be a Christian, to be told in no uncertain terms to head for the down escalator, no correspondence will be entered into. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 03:17 AM

how about Trumps policy to stop drugs leaving china?
He has said an additional 10% tariff will be levied on China until the government there blocks smuggling of the synthetic opioid fentanyl from the country.
is this a good or bad policy